Hot Tub Water Woes

[Certified106]

Just wanted to say I'm new to Hot Tubs and New to this forum and would appreciate any help you all can give me.

I bought my first hot tub about six weeks ago and having grew up with pools didn't think it would be to diffict to get the hang of and boy was I ever wrong. The hot tub is a Marquis E Series with the inline Frog system.

after the dealer installed it they gave me a crash course which was basically put these canisters in here shock it once a week and it will be a paradise. Well being an engineer I started reading up on it and testing the water daily and since then have done nothing but fight with it to get my total alaklinity in the good range without having the bottom end fall completely out of the PH. 

In spite of this the water has always been crystal clear and it has been great on my back. Well we left on vacation and before going I read the manual which said to set the hot tub to around 80 degrees shock it and then when you get back test the water adjust as need, shock and bring the temp back up. Anyhow when I got home the water seemed great until I kicked the pump on at which point it went completely white and I'm talking can't see you hand under the surface of the water white. Well I was went ahead and checked water and like always the pH was crazy low and the total alkalynity was fine. I have spent the day trying to get the PH up and have shocked the tub but it's a no go the water turns completely white any time the jets are on. I did get the PH up some but I guess I'm clueless as to what to do. The more I read the more confusing it seems to get as most everything says iff you adjust the PH it messes with the total alkalinity which I have witnessed. Do I just need to drain this thing and start over?

[castletonia]

Are you using the bromine cartridges or @ease chlorine cartridges?  If bromine, what color, yellow or green?  When you say the water turns white, is it only when the jets run and does it return to clear after the jets are off?

[Certified106]

I am using the smart chlorine system. If I can figure out how to post pics I will. The water is Crystal clear when it's sitting without the jets running. But as soon as you turn them on it almost looks like there are tons of air bubbles trapped in the water and it turns solid white. After you turn the jets off in a minute or two it clears back up. I did pull and rinse the filter and I'm going to try to pick up a new one tomorrow. It also seems like I go through the smart chlorine canisters faster than I should it takes a new one every 2-3 weeks but maybe that's normal.

I did get the total alaklinity back in the 80-120 range and aerated a lot today to try to get the PH back up some and it did get shocked twice today. After shocking I got some foaming and yellowish residue on the edges of the tub. Maybe the TDS is just high? It does get used morning and night for probably close to 1 to 1.5 hours a day between my wife and I for the last six to eight weeks. Also from some of the reading I have done it seems as if I should be sanitizing after every use? If so I was never told to do that and need to figure what I should be using.

[castletonia]

I think you are correct in that you have high TDS.  In my experience, low pH will cause the SmartChlor cartridge to dispense a lot quicker.  Your usage is what I would consider high.  I would normally expect 3-4 weeks per cartridge for a tub that size, but I'm guessing you have to turn the setting up higher to accommodate the higher usage which also shortens the life expectancy. 

I recommend to my customers to shock once a week with Enhanced Shock by BioGuard.  It is a blended shock (chlorine and mps) which I find works best.  I don't think you should have to shock after each use, but with your usage it might be more frequent than once a week.  Do you have an ozone installed?

I personally would recommend a drain and refill.  Use the last 6 weeks as your learning curve and start fresh.

[Certified106]

So here is what I'm going to do. Let me know if something is off with this plan.

I am was planning on:
-Draining the Hot Tub
-Wiping down the inside of it with Bleach water solution
-Rinse the tub out
-Put in a  new filter
-remove frog canisters
-Add new water
-Bring temp up to 90°
-Adjust Total Alaklinity
-Adjust PH
-Shock Tub
-Put the Frog Canisters back in

The hot tub holds about 320 gallons of water and we use it 1-2 times per day for roughly 30 minutes with two people in it. I was planning on shocking it once a week from now on. Do I need to use sanitizer or add anything after each use?

[MarKee]

Certified106, 4 questions;

What part of the country are you in?
Are you on well water?
Do you know the level of Calcium, or if you have hard water?
What chemical brand and what are the ingredients of the chemical you are using to adjust pH/Alkalinity?

[Certified106]

Certified106, 4 questions;

What part of the country are you in?
Are you on well water?
Do you know the level of Calcium, or if you have hard water?
What chemical brand and what are the ingredients of the chemical you are using to adjust pH/Alkalinity?

South East Ohio
I am on City water that would be considered hard water. I have no idea on the calcium level in the water.
I am currently using the SpaPure line of products as that is what the only spa store in a 70 mile radius has.

Here is what I'm using
https://www.amazon.com/Spapur-SpaPure-pH-Up-16oz/dp/B0046WEQDA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531831080&sr=8-2&keywords=spapure+ph+up

[Jacuzzi Jim]

  I would say stop shocking it so much, once maybe twice a week if that.    To shock two or three times in a day is just wasting shock and adding to the TDS for the most part.

 I also wouldn't wipe it down with bleach water, nor shock it before it's been used, not really necessary IMO.   

[Certified106]

  I would say stop shocking it so much, once maybe twice a week if that.    To shock two or three times in a day is just wasting shock and adding to the TDS for the most part.

 I also wouldn't wipe it down with bleach water, nor shock it before it's been used, not really necessary IMO.   

I got it drained and refilled tonight. I didn't wipe it down with bleach water. After I drained it it seemed like there was not point so I didn't. I did change the filter an I'm waiting for it to get around 90 degrees so I can check and adjust the alkalinity if needed and then the PH.

[MarKee]

I agree with Jacuzzi Jim.  With your SmartChlor cartridges you should really only be shocking every week or 2. **MAKE SURE to leave the cover completely off for at least 20 minutes after shocking the spa while running the jets**

If you are using it 1-2 times a day, you are using the tub about 3 times more than average, therefore it may need to be drained and refilled every 60 days.

When you drain and re-fill the tub, are both the alkalinity and pH low? If so, I would just use the Alkalinty increaser as it will raise both levels. You could also use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), which raises both Alkalinity and pH.  It’s easy to accidentally shoot the pH up and cause calcium scale if you use the pH increaser often.

Also, what are the ingredients of the spa shock you are using?

Also try to re-use bathing suits and limit people getting in that have lotions, make-ups, etc.

The hard water isn’t helpful, but not much you can do about that.

If you go this water fill and are still having trouble, you might try the green or purple colored SpaFrog bromine cartridges in place of the SmartChlor/@ease cartridge.

[Certified106]

So after draining and refilling it last night I started the same viscous cycle as last time.

The PH and TA were off the charts high. PH was over 8.0 and TA was over 240. I dosed the tub probably 4 times over 2 hours to try to bring the TA down. Went to bed got up and it was still off the charts. I dosed it probably another 3 times before leaving for work and the TA was still crazy high and the PH is now extremely low. This is getting really frustrating...........  everythign I have been reading makes it sound like this shouldn't be happening and they should both come down together but yet it does this every time.

If I get the TA in range it is impossible to get the PH up at all. The minute I try to bring PH up the TA shoots up above 240. I am about to give up on the TA and just get the PH where it should be and to see what happens. Shoudl I be using soemthing other than the @ease strips? Is there a better more accurate way to test this thing. One last thing the test hor hardness was showing about 50 so it wasn't as high as last time I filled it.

[castletonia]

A drop test kit is more accurate than test strips, but test strips are what I consider good enough.  The amount of pH increaser needed to bring the pH back up shouldn't be enough to skyrocket the alkalinity. 

[Jacuzzi Jim]

 Again you over did it.  I am assuming you are using PH down or decreaser?     So what happened is you added so much that finally the PH dropped out.  Now to have high alk and low ph does not make sense, but it will do it in a hot tub.   My water comes straight out of a well, my PH/ALK is off the charts also.
  When I do a water change, I might add like a cup of decreaser, and wait a day.  Then check and add one more.   Then I just leave it alone.  High PH/Alk is not the end of the world!   I have never had scale and my water stays crystal clear, until I get lazy with sanitizer and it goes cloudy one me.

[Certified106]

Again you over did it.  I am assuming you are using PH down or decreaser?     So what happened is you added so much that finally the PH dropped out.  Now to have high alk and low ph does not make sense, but it will do it in a hot tub.   My water comes straight out of a well, my PH/ALK is off the charts also.
  When I do a water change, I might add like a cup of decreaser, and wait a day.  Then check and add one more.   Then I just leave it alone.  High PH/Alk is not the end of the world!   I have never had scale and my water stays crystal clear, until I get lazy with sanitizer and it goes cloudy one me.

Ok, I kind of wondered if I should dose it that much....... Chalk this one up to learning experiences also. If I can do it wrong I will LOL.

Basincally when I changed the water I wasn't sure how long I could go with no shock and no SmartChlor while trying to adjust the water before I started having other problems. Before I left for work I shocked it and put the Smart Chlor in it and when I get home I will check it again if it needs it I will make a small adjustement and not check it unit the next morning. When you read the manuals it makes it sound like instant death by scale if the PH gets high at all.

[wmccall]

Again you over did it.  I am assuming you are using PH down or decreaser?     So what happened is you added so much that finally the PH dropped out.  Now to have high alk and low ph does not make sense, but it will do it in a hot tub.   My water comes straight out of a well, my PH/ALK is off the charts also.
  When I do a water change, I might add like a cup of decreaser, and wait a day.  Then check and add one more.   Then I just leave it alone.  High PH/Alk is not the end of the world!   I have never had scale and my water stays crystal clear, until I get lazy with sanitizer and it goes cloudy one me.

Ok, I kind of wondered if I should dose it that much....... Chalk this one up to learning experiences also. If I can do it wrong I will LOL.

Basincally when I changed the water I wasn't sure how long I could go with no shock and no SmartChlor while trying to adjust the water before I started having other problems. Before I left for work I shocked it and put the Smart Chlor in it and when I get home I will check it again if it needs it I will make a small adjustement and not check it unit the next morning. When you read the manuals it makes it sound like instant death by scale if the PH gets high at all.

Hi, if I haven't said it yet, welcome to the forum.   We use to have a member here, who was in the industry a long time, he always use to say, and we started calling it Chas' law, that every new user should dump there water after about a month because everyone over does it and messes up the first time.   I know I did 13 years ago.

Other's here are more qualified to assess the situation, but I will say my water is always clean and I dump about every 3 months. (2 adults use the tub almost every night.

My only advice that I think it worth anything, don't over worry about PH.  Your skin will not fall off.  Most of the chemicals you add to change PH say to wait several hours before adjusting again. I say, wait 48 hours.  If you add more too soon, you start chasing the PH reading high and then low.