Hot Spring - Sundance

[DaveMc]

1. In my searching I cannot find a Hot Springs spec that says that the Vanguard--equivalent +/- to the Optima---has a titanium heater---we were told by Hot Springs that the Vanguard had a SS heater----I grant you that HS most likely has a titanium heater available in some spas--but not the Vanguard --so your defense on that issue is flawed---don't you think?--Or Can you point me to some back up?
2. Pump size means something---
3. We were told by HS that their were 14 parts to a moto massage
4 The ppm's I am sure have a lot to do with mal functions and I am sure they are very low in the HS system but--it is salt water and when you add the Human Error Variable---lack of perfect water balance ---it is very concerning---and sometimes--perception is is more of a cause than reality---we didn't want to have to maintain perfect balance 100% of the time.

PS--I can find a ton of Titanium replacement heaters for Vanguard HS but I cannot find a spec by HS that says the "No Fault" heater is SS or Titanium---if they do provide one when did they introduce it in the Vanguard?

[Spatech_tuo]

1. In my searching I cannot find a Hot Springs spec that says that the Vanguard--equivalent +/- to the Optima---has a titanium heater---we were told by Hot Springs that the Vanguard had a SS heater----I grant you that HS most likely has a titanium heater available in some spas--but not the Vanguard --so your defense on that issue is flawed---don't you think?--Or Can you point me to some back up?
2. Pump size means something---
3. We were told by HS that their were 14 parts to a moto massage
4 The ppm's I am sure have a lot to do with mal functions and I am sure they are very low in the HS system but--it is salt water and when you add the Human Error Variable---lack of perfect water balance ---it is very concerning---and sometimes--perception is is more of a cause than reality---we didn't want to have to maintain perfect balance 100% of the time.

PS--I can find a ton of Titanium replacement heaters for Vanguard HS but I cannot find a spec by HS that says the "No Fault" heater is SS or Titanium---if they do provide one when did they introduce it in the Vanguard?

Is someone telling you stainless steal heaters are an issue?

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

2. Pump size means something---

This is correct. A larger pump, will use more electricity, costing more to operate.

A larger pump in a different spa, in no way says anything about the power, or comfortability of the jets. There any numerous ways to rate the horsepower of a pump, and one 2hp pump, may in fact be more powerful that another 3hp pump.

There's also the aspect of volume vs. pressure. The same pump can be designed up to move a great amount of water at a low pressure, or a lower amount of water at a higher pressure. his is itself, is a clear indicating that even comparing two spa with the same hp, can be like comparing apples to oranges.

Additionally, many aspects of the jets and plumbing will also effect.

But yes, pump size does mean something....frequently though, it just means marketing hype.

We were told by HS that their were 14 parts to a moto massage

nuts, bolts, screws....and one part that moves.

it is salt water and when you add the Human Error Variable

You add a very specific amount of salt to a specific spa...but then, there's nothing in the world that's totally idiot proof

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

2. Pump size means something---

This is correct. A larger pump, will use more electricity, costing more to operate.

A larger pump in a different spa, in no way says anything about the power, or comfortability of the jets. There any numerous ways to rate the horsepower of a pump, and one 2hp pump, may in fact be more powerful that another 3hp pump.

There's also the aspect of volume vs. pressure. The same pump can be designed up to move a great amount of water at a low pressure, or a lower amount of water at a higher pressure. This is itself, is a clear indicating that even comparing two spa with the same hp, can be like comparing apples to oranges.

Additionally, many aspects of the jets and plumbing will also effect the flow rate and pressure of the water exiting the jets.

But yes, pump size does mean something....frequently though, it just means marketing hype.

We were told by HS that their were 14 parts to a moto massage

nuts, bolts, screws....and one part that moves.

it is salt water and when you add the Human Error Variable

You add a very specific amount of salt to a specific spa...but then, there's nothing in the world that's totally idiot proof
[/quote]

[hottubdan]

1. In my searching I cannot find a Hot Springs spec that says that the Vanguard--equivalent +/- to the Optima---has a titanium heater---we were told by Hot Springs that the Vanguard had a SS heater----I grant you that HS most likely has a titanium heater available in some spas--but not the Vanguard --so your defense on that issue is flawed---don't you think?--Or Can you point me to some back up?
2. Pump size means something---
3. We were told by HS that their were 14 parts to a moto massage
4 The ppm's I am sure have a lot to do with mal functions and I am sure they are very low in the HS system but--it is salt water and when you add the Human Error Variable---lack of perfect water balance ---it is very concerning---and sometimes--perception is is more of a cause than reality---we didn't want to have to maintain perfect balance 100% of the time.

PS--I can find a ton of Titanium replacement heaters for Vanguard HS but I cannot find a spec by HS that says the "No Fault" heater is SS or Titanium---if they do provide one when did they introduce it in the Vanguard?

This is a description of the OEM Factory heater: This 2014 No-Fault PDR Titanium Heater is the newest factory upgrade replacement heater from the makers of Hot Springs spas.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

1. In my searching I cannot find a Hot Springs spec that says that the Vanguard--equivalent +/- to the Optima---has a titanium heater---we were told by Hot Springs that the Vanguard had a SS heater----I grant you that HS most likely has a titanium heater available in some spas--but not the Vanguard --so your defense on that issue is flawed---don't you think?--Or Can you point me to some back up? The MANUFACTURER brochure for the 2014 Highlife collection including the Vanguard exactly states: "No-Fault Heater..A unique titanium housing and heater element maximize heat transfer to the water and deliver unmatched corrosion resistance. In Fact, our patentented No-Fault heater is warranted for five years regardless of water chemistry"

2. Pump size means something---most consumers think it does, but it doesn't mean a whole lot because there is so many variables in play that its hard to form a realistic opinion on the hot tub based on simply a horsepower #: motor size, inlet/outlet size, # of jets, types of jets, volume each jet pushes, how the spa was plumbed? direct plumbed or many multiple "hub" fittings, etc. etc. so yes at the end of the day unless your trying to reverse engineer a hot tub the only thing that REALLY matters is how the jets feel on your own body

3. We were told by HS that their were 14 parts to a moto massage...like stated above unless your counting every part that goes into making a moto-massage then it is simply 1 assembly that moves...to me when there is only 1 moving part there is only 1 moving part..not 10, not 14, not 60....just 1, and that is what the moto-massage is

4 The ppm's I am sure have a lot to do with mal functions and I am sure they are very low in the HS system but--it is salt water and when you add the Human Error Variable---lack of perfect water balance ---it is very concerning---and sometimes--perception is is more of a cause than reality---we didn't want to have to maintain perfect balance 100% of the time. I'm not sure what this means? why would you not want to maintain perfect balance in your 10k+ hot tub? quickest way to soaking in "uncomfortable" feeling water, and also the quickest way to have things break down quickly is to NOT have good water balance...so again I'm confused

PS--I can find a ton of Titanium replacement heaters for Vanguard HS but I cannot find a spec by HS that says the "No Fault" heater is SS or Titanium---if they do provide one when did they introduce it in the Vanguard?

I hope that can clear things up, anything else just ask

[donnaduck]

Thank you all - I have enjoyed reading your posts, even the back and forth about some issues - which actually I find interesting.  We did wet test the Sundance models  - but I felt like I floated to much in both the Altamar (sp?) and Optima.  Now back to HS Aria and possibly the Caldera Tahitian.  I suppose before making my final decision I truly need to go back and wet test those again. 

I don't think we could go wrong with any of them.  I just can't wait to get it here and set up (probably January at the earliest).  I am lucky that there are both the Sundance and HS dealerships are really good people with great reputations.  And, lordy they have been so patient and informative to me.

I hope everyone has had a great Thanksgiving!