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Bullfrog technology
Tman122:
--- Quote from: av8r on September 20, 2015, 08:04:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: Tman122 on September 20, 2015, 03:00:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: av8r on September 20, 2015, 11:20:09 am ---
--- Quote from: Tman122 on September 20, 2015, 09:13:26 am ---OK lets talk about credibility. "You get full power at all jet pacs" This is scientifically impossible, it's a sales pitch but a bunch of you have fallin for it, drank the koolaid. If you turn all the power to one jet pac it has the full power of the pump, or as much as the plumbing and friction will allow. The second you turn on another jet pac the first looses power and gives it to the second and so on. The BF I looked at didn't have a pump for each jet pac. That's the only way "full power at all jet pacs" is possible.
So those who say "full power at all jet pacs"= no credibility, just koolaid.
--- End quote ---
You need to think a little more logically. Full power doesn't mean the full level of pressure/volume available at the pump exhaust. It simply means that the system is designed to deliver the highest volume and pressure with as few obstacles to each seat. It's a more efficient design, no one can argue that point. Do BF sales people push the envelope with how they describe it? Probably, but we seem to have a generally more discerning group here that can look beyond that and appreciate the differences in the BF design.
Playing dumb doesn't help anyone, especially newer folks coming here to seek information. They're looking for an honest discussion with as little noise to signal ration as possible.
--- End quote ---
People come here seeking unbiased information. Not skewed facts.
--- End quote ---
If that's true, I can extrapolate that those people have never been on an internet forum before. :)
--- End quote ---
I'm only here to help. A little bit of confusion is better than gullibility.
dporter22:
--- Quote from: Tman122 on September 20, 2015, 03:00:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: av8r on September 20, 2015, 11:20:09 am ---
--- Quote from: Tman122 on September 20, 2015, 09:13:26 am ---OK lets talk about credibility. "You get full power at all jet pacs" This is scientifically impossible, it's a sales pitch but a bunch of you have fallin for it, drank the koolaid. If you turn all the power to one jet pac it has the full power of the pump, or as much as the plumbing and friction will allow. The second you turn on another jet pac the first looses power and gives it to the second and so on. The BF I looked at didn't have a pump for each jet pac. That's the only way "full power at all jet pacs" is possible.
So those who say "full power at all jet pacs"= no credibility, just koolaid.
--- End quote ---
You need to think a little more logically. Full power doesn't mean the full level of pressure/volume available at the pump exhaust. It simply means that the system is designed to deliver the highest volume and pressure with as few obstacles to each seat. It's a more efficient design, no one can argue that point. Do BF sales people push the envelope with how they describe it? Probably, but we seem to have a generally more discerning group here that can look beyond that and appreciate the differences in the BF design.
Playing dumb doesn't help anyone, especially newer folks coming here to seek information. They're looking for an honest discussion with as little noise to signal ration as possible.
--- End quote ---
People come here seeking unbiased information. Not skewed facts.
And Jim, what if you put a pump with better flow in an engineered plumbing system with manifolds diverted right, that has actually more pressure and a better feel than one with less plumbing and jet pacs?
Jeez guys, no one has said that it was crappy, or not different. I am simply saying it IS NOT better no matter what the BF salesman or relatively new owners hangin here say. You choose between 15 different feels with BF. If the top 5 manufacturers make 8-10 different models (with different feels) that gives you about 45 different feels. The odds are good that a few of those might be better a little, or lots better than anyone of the 15 different space pacs offer by BF. One of those 60 different feels should be right for almost everyone. Don't buy one because someone called it technology.
--- End quote ---
I didn't say BF was better, I said that all the seats in a BF can enjoy full power if they want without being forced to divert power away to another seat. To me that was a significant and worthwhile advantage, to others it might not be.
And I'm not sure why Tmann and others get so wrapped around the axle about the term "full power". It's very simple and I don't understand what's so hard to grasp; each seat in a BF simultaneously has so much pressure/power/flow that most people prefer to turn their individual seat down a little. This is what is called "full power at each seat" and most logical people would agree. That's not to say that other brands don't have decent power, it's just that their designs require some seats to have much less power if another seat wants more.
I find it interesting that every time I try to explain this simple concept detractors start crying foul with irrelevant arguments about semantics, but none of them will ever refute the plain fact that BF does not force you to divert flow from one seat in order to get more flow at another with diverters.
Tman122:
--- Quote from: dporter22 on September 21, 2015, 01:34:25 am ---
I didn't say BF was better, I said that all the seats in a BF can enjoy full power if they want without being forced to divert power away to another seat. To me that was a significant and worthwhile advantage, to others it might not be.
And I'm not sure why Tmann and others get so wrapped around the axle about the term "full power".
I find it interesting that every time I try to explain this simple concept detractors start crying foul with irrelevant arguments about semantics, but none of them will ever refute the plain fact that BF does not force you to divert flow from one seat in order to get more flow at another with diverters.
--- End quote ---
OK folks, just so you know and in the spirit of the thread the above is completely not true and impossible.
This is better. With a BF spa you have to turn down the power if you decide to use just one jet pac because it hurts your skin.
dporter22:
--- Quote from: Tman122 on September 21, 2015, 07:21:29 am ---
--- Quote from: dporter22 on September 21, 2015, 01:34:25 am ---
I didn't say BF was better, I said that all the seats in a BF can enjoy full power if they want without being forced to divert power away to another seat. To me that was a significant and worthwhile advantage, to others it might not be.
And I'm not sure why Tmann and others get so wrapped around the axle about the term "full power".
I find it interesting that every time I try to explain this simple concept detractors start crying foul with irrelevant arguments about semantics, but none of them will ever refute the plain fact that BF does not force you to divert flow from one seat in order to get more flow at another with diverters.
--- End quote ---
OK folks, just so you know and in the spirit of the thread the above is completely not true and impossible.
This is better. With a BF spa you have to turn down the power if you decide to use just one jet pac because it hurts your skin.
--- End quote ---
Notice that Tmann still can't explain what's not true or why something he doesn't understand is impossible, and that he can't refute what I said about the difference in design between BF and other brands. And once again he brings up irrelevancies like "using just one jet pack" which I clearly never mentioned. I distinctly described having ALL the seats on at FULL POWER.
I even tried to make it easier to understand by explaining that by "full power" I mean that all seats simultaneously can have so much power that most people like to turn their individual seat down, and that other brands require you to divert power from one seat to get full power at another. Please explain what is "completely not true and impossible" about that. Am I and the thousands of other BF owners just imagining how our tubs are working? Was I just dreaming when I tested the other brands and power was diverted away?
Why do people insist on calling me a liar when all I'm doing is relating my own experience with my own spa as compared to all the other spas I researched and tested? Once again, every other spa I tested could not provide full power (or whatever you want to call so much power that it can be uncomfortable) at every seat simultaneously, while my BF does.
I can't make it any simpler.
Tman122:
Well OK lets break this down, but first. I didn't call anyone a liar. Maybe to much koolaid but not a liar. And I'm sorry you had bad wet testing experiences especially with all the new jet designs both waterway and aquaquip are designing and selling that the other guys use.
Now, you take one pump or even two pumps and you turn it/them on "full power" and divert, yes I said divert it to one jet pac, full power at the jet pac right? We can both agree yes here. Now open another jet pac's diverter, are you getting full power on both? If you say yes lay off the koolaid dude. It's about GPM (gallons per minute) that exit the jet. If a pump has a fixed outflow, which they do. Then the more holes you push the GPM to the less each hole gets. Pretty simple even for this dumb plumber.
This should clarify both your and MY understanding. And with 30 years of plumbing experience I'm not sure your qualified to question my understanding of fluid mechanics or any one of it's subsets to include hydrodynamics and fluid dynamics.
Listen dporter22, I know you are happy with your tub. This is not about that. It is about false claims by a manufacturer used to sell tubs and the truth from a 100% unbiased and reasonably knowledgeable source. I wish I knew as much about plumbing as cemgeek knows about chemicals. My problem is I forgot more about plumbing that most people know.
You can get full power at every jet pac. Not at the same time. You just have to "divert" it to the jet pac you choose. It's nothing more than a simple play on words. All manufacturers do it. Relax, I beat up every claim of superiority. Ask the Arctic guys.....LOL
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