Original > Hot Tub Forum
Optima or Grandee
dorsey:
I live in the Baltimore area and am looking to purchase my first hot tub. I have narrowed my selection to Hotspring (Grandee or Vanguard) or Sundance (Optima). I want to spend no more than $7-8K for everything that I need and I assume I can negotiate the list prices for each. The local dealer is listing the Optima for $8,500 (including delivery, setup and chemicals), while the Grandee is $9,500 (including delivery, setup, chemicals and stairs). My wife and I (three children) have decided against a lounger. I am willing to pay for quality, but do not want to pay more than necessary.
Any suggestions/comments?
needaspa:
I am looking at the Optima as well. I have been quoted 7500 (which includes 300 sales tax) for led light upgrade, cover, lifter, start-up chemicals. I personally think that is still a little high. (60 to 75% markup on msrp) I am trying for 6500.
I have looked at the hotsprings. The only problem is paying for the name! I do not think that are any better or worse then Sundance. Also, I am not too excited for paying for features like waterfalls on the Hot Springs.
Although, the Optima has Aromatherapy which I think is just marketing. I had it on during a wet test for 30 minutes and reallly couldnt notice it thats with new beads out of the box.
My point is that both companies make a great product. I am trying my best to widdle down the markups and I guess I will have to live with the unneeded options.
Take your time and negotiate over a period of time to make sure you get the best deal. No matter what people say, buying a spa is just like buying a new car!
Anyway, hope that helps.
IOWASPAMAN:
Pardon me while I snap.
Being a spa salesman and knowing what wholesale cost is on both the grandee and the optima, those are actually good prices to help your local retailer stay in buisness. $6500 for an Optima with all the stuff they have added, and cost of overhead, the dealer would lose money. But who cares, as long as you get a great deal. If he doesn't sale it to you at your price you'll buy a spa elsewhere, because afterall a hot tub is just a hot tub, right?!?
It's a wonder why I see posts talking about a local retailer going out of business, they must have just been bad business owners right? Pool and spa store employees aren't trained professionals, are they?
Sorry to go off on a rant but seriously, do hot tub shoppers believe we just pull our margins to stay in business out of thin air? If I have offended anyone, I'm sorry, but hot tubs cost a little more from the factory than you think.
ebirrane:
I also live in the Baltimore area and was looking at the Optima from Hohnes and the Grandee from Regina I went with the 2003 grandee model for something like $7900. I didn't think the 2004 Grandee was so expensive, though. Haggle a bit.
Here are my thoughts:
Optima
1) Much "stronger" jets. When on full power they actually moved my (a little) and my wife (_alot_).
2) Footwell dome was nice, especially for keeping you in your seat.
3) We really liked the handles for getting in/out.
4) Bucket seating.
5) Meant to run at 60 amps, if installed with 50 amps can't run heater and both jet pumps.
6) GFCI breaker box not included in price/installation.
Grandee
1) Jets seemed "just right" for us. A few really got my blood flowing. Wife liked that they were not as hard.
2) Open seating (a big plus for us).
3) Moto-massage really grew on us, but it needs 70% or more diverter power to move up and down.
4) Can't run all jets at full power (see #3).
5) No handles inside tub.
6) A little bigger than the optima (8.5x7.7 instead of 7.7x7.7)
There's another thread on here called "Monopoly" were I experienced some frustration over Hohne's pricing which I think is about $400 or $600 more than it should be. The Grandee for us was almost $800 cheaper than an optima, so I'm not sure about the reply saying that you pay more for hot springs.
The Sundance dealer, to us, really went negative about the Hot Springs tubs saying their jets are underpowered and their jet placement is ineffective and inaccurate. We have found both things to be untrue based on wet testing. They are *both* good tubs.
The Grandee, for sure, has less powerful pumps, which is one of the reasons it runs at 50 amp (I think, but I'm not an electrician). But we found the water massage on the grandee to be just as desirable to us (different, for sure, but just as desirable). To us the massage was less violent.
Without question you need to move back and forth in *either* tub to get a full massage. The moving moto-massage helped keep down itching. We found it a little harder to shift comfortably in the bucket seats of the optima as itchy spots developed on our backs.
Recommendation?
Wet test and go with whatever makes you happy. Don't listen to sales gimmicks, as both are great tubs. If you like both equally, go with the one that is cheapest and/or the dealer that makes you the most comfortable.
When you wet test, stay in the tub for a while. We sat in there for anywhere from 10-20 minutes to get a good feel for all the jets on our backs.
The nice thing is, between these two tubs, you can't make a bad choice.
-Ed
poolboy34:
Iowaspaman,
I agree with you 100%. I myself work in the pool & spa biz, and if customers knew what we actually pay for the tubs, marketing, sales and staff training, eletrical..etc......they'd se that the prices we sell at are fair. I also understand that there are many people on this board who are trying and/or are thinking about getting into the biz. It's takes MANY years for a new dealer to establish themselves in a market, so be patient. BTW you aren't just paying for the "name" when you buy a Hot Spring Spa, or a Sundance Spa, or a Dimension One spa for that matter. You are paying for a spa that is built using the stringest of manufacturing standards that insure a consistently great product. You also paying for the inovations that these pioneering companies Develop, test, Patent & incorporate into their spas. Anyways that's my 2 cents.
Jason
Store manager for a Dimension One & Caldera Spas Dealer
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