General > Beating a dead horse
Questions about Arctic Spas
Tom:
These threads are interesting. Stuart pointed out some time ago that my experience is almost exclusively with Arctic (as employee) and Beachcomber (as former owner); since then, I've made a point of carefully examining other hot tubs that I see at demos, on display, etc. I forget - what brand, if any, does Spaman represent?
One part of my job on the forums is to "Provide accurate factual information [about our company or product] in response to (i) Direct queries (ii) Posts which contain inaccurate or false information."
IMO Spaman's assertion of interior temperatures approaching 250F is intentionally provocative; he meant to bug us, and like Pavlov's trained dogs, we have all responded. That's why I said I didn't have time to play last week.
Nonetheless, keep your eyes on facts.
1. Since water BOILS at 212F (less at higher altitudes), that 250F temperature is on the face of it ridiculous
2. I shared a study showing that at 100F ambient in hot sun, the interirior of a car approaches 195F (far short of 250) using the greenhouse effect which traps heat. Again, the 250F figure is clearly unlikely for an insulated space.
3. I point out, respectfully, that any insulated home in 100F ambient and full sun would not come even close to 250F -- you live there, you know that.
4. I shared a study showing internal temperatures recorded for eight different spas, regardless of construction.
5. Hillbilly pointed out that unreasonably high cavity temperatures would have disastrous warranty and customer satisfaction consequences. For the first, I can say that our warranty rates are equal to or better than those of other brands for which I have information (I am not allowed to release details, so don't ask). For the second, I point out that we are SpaSearch Certified -- recognition based entirely on customer satisfaction surveys.
Our product was engineered for cold temperatures; for hot weather configurations, we offer two hardware solutions to prevent the possibility of overheating so that the spa will operate correctly in "the world's harshest climates".
Spaman has offered to put a temperature probe inside an Arctic Spa to see what he gets. That's a reasonable approach.
spaman--:
--- Quote ---These threads are interesting. Stuart pointed out some time ago that my experience is almost exclusively with Arctic (as employee) and Beachcomber (as former owner); since then, I've made a point of carefully examining other hot tubs that I see at demos, on display, etc. I forget - what brand, if any, does Spaman represent?
One part of my job on the forums is to "Provide accurate factual information [about our company or product] in response to (i) Direct queries (ii) Posts which contain inaccurate or false information."
IMO Spaman's assertion of interior temperatures approaching 250F is intentionally provocative; he meant to bug us, and like Pavlov's trained dogs, we have all responded. That's why I said I didn't have time to play last week.
Nonetheless, keep your eyes on facts.
1. Since water BOILS at 212F (less at higher altitudes), that 250F temperature is on the face of it ridiculous
2. I shared a study showing that at 100F ambient in hot sun, the interirior of a car approaches 195F (far short of 250) using the greenhouse effect which traps heat. Again, the 250F figure is clearly unlikely for an insulated space.
3. I point out, respectfully, that any insulated home in 100F ambient and full sun would not come even close to 250F -- you live there, you know that.
4. I shared a study showing internal temperatures recorded for eight different spas, regardless of construction.
5. Hillbilly pointed out that unreasonably high cavity temperatures would have disastrous warranty and customer satisfaction consequences. For the first, I can say that our warranty rates are equal to or better than those of other brands for which I have information (I am not allowed to release details, so don't ask). For the second, I point out that we are SpaSearch Certified -- recognition based entirely on customer satisfaction surveys.
Our product was engineered for cold temperatures; for hot weather configurations, we offer two hardware solutions to prevent the possibility of overheating so that the spa will operate correctly in "the world's harshest climates".
Spaman has offered to put a temperature probe inside an Arctic Spa to see what he gets. That's a reasonable approach.
--- End quote ---
1) I never said that the temp of the water reaches 250f I was referring to inside of the cavity itself, I will admit I have not yet put a probe in an Arcitic cavity to measure these temps. I may have been a bit high, my whole point was that the temp of these cabinets get way to high for the componants that are inside the cabinet. The new pumps they are using are actually a great pump. Expensive to replace but great. The electronics and plumbing in high temps over time will become brittle. Arctic has admitted that the cabinets get too hot or they would not have designed a vented cabinet for their spas.I have first hand experienced atleast ten Arctic spas in our area that the water in the tub was above 107F. We live in a windy environment so lifting the lid to let the heat escape is not an option because of debris.
2) If the cabinet temp is not maintaining temps higher than the temp of the water in the tub then you are losing temp in the tub and wasting energy to not only heat the water in the tub but now you must pay to heat the cabinet as well.
3) your analogy of the car makes no sense, on a day when it is freezing outside turn your car of and see how long you can sit in it before it gets cold. Now if in the hot car you crank your heater on high your analogy holds water but then you have to remeasure the temp in the car.
I will let you know what we find on the operation temp of the cabinet, I am curious as to what temp this cabinet is all through the winter. One would hope it maintains above the water temp. And no I don't like my water @ 73F.
Summitman:
--- Quote ---
1.[glow] Expensive to replace but great[/glow].
--- End quote ---
Not so much, actually the price of the pumps is about the same. But I guess YOU do know everything.
Summitman:
--- Quote ---
[glow]The electronics and plumbing in high temps over time will become brittle. Arctic has admitted that the cabinets get too hot or they would not have designed a vented cabinet for their spas.I have first hand experienced atleast ten Arctic spas in our area that the water in the tub was above 107F. We live in a windy environment so lifting the lid to let the heat escape is not an option because of debris. [/glow]
--- End quote ---
Since we are speaking about this, I live in a windy environment that gets extremely hot and extremely cold (kansas), and have sold and owned the Arctic spa for over ten years. The only thing we have had to do is occasionally put a tennis ball under the spa cover to release some heat in the middle of August. And yes it reaches over 100 degrees for weeks at a time. Kind of funny too, that we have customers who have OTHER brands that have to do the SAME tennis ball trick, because of excessive heat. And since I have people who have owned Arctics for over ten years now I have never replaced a pump, pvc, heater, pack from being too brittle or from being exposed to excessive heat. But again what do I know?
PS i have a digital thermometer running on my spa right now that will test the interior temperatures that our pumps and packs have to operate in. I hope that they can BOIL since spaman says they need to be able to!!!
Its a great product that holds up very well in all types of conditions.
Dr. Spa™ Ret.:
I'd appreciate it if you could put that thermometer under the cabinet and get a temp reading :-)
I highly doubt temps close to 250, but if they are in the range of about 180, I might be looking for a new spa 8-)
See, I have this amazing recipe for duck, that requires cooking for 8 hours at 180 degrees. It's a bit tough to do in my oven as the duck needs to be hung from the top of the oven with a drip pan underneath. My oven just isn't tall enough. I'm also thinking, the duck aroma therapy would be rather astounding! Let me know ::)
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