General > Beating a dead horse
Questions about Arctic Spas
Steve:
I love these "debates" where everyone knows ohhh soo much about everyone elses product... ::)
It takes me back to all the "debates" about Beachcombers Protec (equipment outside, under the step) option and how horrible it was in cold climates... ::)
The fact that Beachcomber had sold it this way for years and that we personally sold here in Alberta for almost 2 decades seemed to have no impact on these "people of higher knowledge"... LOL ::) ;D I always got a kick out of that.
If the horror that spaman depicts was remotely accurate, don't you think it would be reported, widely commented on, obvious and industry wide common knowledge and changes would have had to have been made or that we would just watch them go out of business due to the 10's of thousands of warranty claims?? :-?
Obviously....it's not
And yes, it's OK to ask how something works instead of attacking it out of ignorance.
Summitman:
--- Quote ---
[glow]I'm not sure I agree with how hot your cabinet gets however, if you talk with any manufacture of the chips, transformers, electronics and even motors they say that optimal operating range for those components is between 0 and 100 degrees.[/glow] That doesn't mean that they can't operate outside of those temps but it's harder on them if they do long term. If you don't believe this than unplug the fan on your computer and see how long it lasts you. In most cases a thermopane cabinet can and will get hotter than that and if it doesn’t then the whole pitch has no merit.
--- End quote ---
Im sitting here trying to think how Zero degree weather could possibly be considered "optimal" operating conditions for chips, transformers, electronics and even motors.
I can sit here all day and say that Ive got horror stories on all the spas I sell against. But then again I would be making up stories to make my competition look worse.
Pastries for thought.
spaman--:
--- Quote ---I love these "debates" where everyone knows ohhh soo much about everyone elses product... ::)
It takes me back to all the "debates" about Beachcombers Protec (equipment outside, under the step) option and how horrible it was in cold climates... ::)
The fact that Beachcomber had sold it this way for years and that we personally sold here in Alberta for almost 2 decades seemed to have no impact on these "people of higher knowledge"... LOL ::) ;D I always got a kick out of that.
If the horror that spaman depicts was remotely accurate, don't you think it would be reported, widely commented on, obvious and industry wide common knowledge and changes would have had to have been made or that we would just watch them go out of business due to the 10's of thousands of warranty claims?? :-?
Obviously....it's not
And yes, it's OK to ask how something works instead of attacking it out of ignorance.
--- End quote ---
It wasn't necessarily an attack, nor did I use the word "horror" I just told the customer to look into a couple things, if it was not an issue then Arctic would not have came up with a summer skirt, that is vented.(customers should be told about ssid skirt before buying the tub.) I am installing a thermometer in an Arctic cabinet and will measure the temps inside the cabinet vs. the temp of the water. I am very interested in seeing at what temp this spa cabinet is in cold temps. I am not ignorant Steve, as ignorance is standing by and taking any story that comes along as gospel. I do get irritated that noone seems to get or care that if in fact this cabinet is cooler than the water temp the insulation story is bunk. Either that or we just go along with any story that comes along. Stuart has a great point in that there are specs that these electronics are designed to operate at. At no time did he imply operating them in 0 degree temps is optimal, as every spa cabinet is much warmer than the outside air.
I think the name calling and sideline attacking is ignorant rather than offering some kind of fact or input to find solution to the disagreement.
Though I have dropped this several times it seems it is an irritant in the guys representing Arctics sides that there is someone who might question the story.
Summitman:
--- Quote ---
It wasn't necessarily an attack, nor did I use the word "horror" I just told the customer to look into a couple things, if it was not an issue then Arctic would not have came up with a summer skirt, that is vented.(customers should be told about ssid skirt before buying the tub.) I am installing a thermometer in an Arctic cabinet and will measure the temps inside the cabinet vs. the temp of the water. I am very interested in seeing at what temp this spa cabinet is in cold temps. I am not ignorant Steve, as ignorance is standing by and taking any story that comes along as gospel. I do get irritated that noone seems to get or care that if in fact this cabinet is cooler than the water temp the insulation story is bunk. Either that or we just go along with any story that comes along. Stuart has a great point in that there are specs that these electronics are designed to operate at. At no time did he imply operating them in 0 degree temps is optimal, as every spa cabinet is much warmer than the outside air.
I think the name calling and sideline attacking is ignorant rather than offering some kind of fact or input to find solution to the disagreement.
Though I have dropped this several times it seems it is an irritant in the guys representing Arctics sides that there is someone who might question the story.
--- End quote ---
Question all you want spaman, its a great product that stacks up very well with the competition. I put my family name on it everyday running my business.
stuart:
Hillbilly,
Good questions however I have to question how much service background you've actually had....
In 20 years I've never seen more bees and bugs in a fully foamed tub! How could that be? They take the least path of resistance and the open chamber is much more welcoming than a closed one.
We have an issue here with spiders in TP cabinets...They love the dark open space for webs. Sure I've also see them in equipment compartments on full foam tubs but not nearly to the degree that I've seen them on TP.
As far as the plumbing getting "dried out" from the curing of the foam...I'm not sure what you’re talking about here but the plumbing doesn't "Dry out" in any "curing”. Our enemy is air when it comes to plumbing, air and possibly chemicals. Open any older HS spa (I use them as an example because they have a lot of ff spa out that are older) and look at the small tubing in the equipment compartment then look at some of the small tubing locked in the foam. Both can be a bit brittle however the tubing by the motors is very stiff and fragile and cannot be manipulated.
When you talk about "wrapping" a foam cup...What are you talking about? I can't remember anyone putting a sleeve over the heavy white foam cups that have been around forever to keep them from getting to warm but see them do that on the paper or thin foam used by some of the big companies. Just for logic sake why don't you contact an insulation company and see what they think of some of this?
Now to readdress the operating temp of the components... The bottom line is this; your thinking in the terms of water damage not wear....any component that can create heat will survive better in cooler conditions than hotter, that's just common sense. Heat breaks down plastics and metals much faster than cold does. If you don’t believe this than again, shut the fan off in your computer for awhile or better yet let it run in a cold environment like your garage and see if it shuts down then set it in the sun in front of your window while it operates and see if it has any problems. More than likely it will crash if it sets in the sunlight while operating very long.
As far as whether your product lasts or holds up against any other product, I would have to say that it does fine but as far as whether it makes more sense and is better than other products...that's where the battle begins. The key tricky phrase here is "Does it make sense" vs. "Does it make more sense".
Then to Steve's comment...I agree that often everyone thinks they know more about the competitors product than their own in these debates but also believe it is vital to know and understand not only your product but to become extremely knowledgeable in your competition. In this case we should probably take out the name brand and compare a style or philosophy of manufacturing a product. That's just kinda hard when so many think their brand is so different or so much better than everyone else.
The frustrating part for me is how many people comment with partial knowledge of what they are talking about and forgo common sense to support a myopic view of their revenue producing stream.
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