Hot Tub Forum

General => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: TubbinLuvin on December 22, 2018, 03:04:12 am

Title: Laughing at the absurdity
Post by: TubbinLuvin on December 22, 2018, 03:04:12 am
No one hardly mentions Masters Spas , which shows you a lot about this forum to be honest.

Turns out, all the horseshit on here, and Masters destroys any other hot tub out there.

Insteresting to say the least. Very interesting.

But hey, salesmen gotta make their money, we all got lives and families to feed, no hard feelings.

No better tub out there today  better than this one


Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: Tman122 on December 22, 2018, 08:15:00 am
No one hardly mentions Masters Spas , which shows you a lot about this forum to be honest.

Turns out, all the horseshit on here, and Masters destroys any other hot tub out there.

Insteresting to say the least. Very interesting.

But hey, salesmen gotta make their money, we all got lives and families to feed, no hard feelings.

No better tub out there today  better than this one


Now that's funny. Thank you for your opinion. Your the second person in my 40 year career who holds the same opinion.
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: Hottubguy on December 22, 2018, 08:46:36 am
No one hardly mentions Masters Spas , which shows you a lot about this forum to be honest.

Turns out, all the horseshit on here, and Masters destroys any other hot tub out there.

Insteresting to say the least. Very interesting.

But hey, salesmen gotta make their money, we all got lives and families to feed, no hard feelings.

No better tub out there today  better than this one


https://www.masterspas.com/legend-series/mp_legend-lsx-700-hot-tub.php

Any facts to back up that claim or just a opinion? 
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: swilly1000 on December 22, 2018, 09:56:43 am
You just opened up a shitstorm dude.  Can't wait for the pushback on this one lol.  I see you posted really late at night.  Was alcohol a factor hahaha?

FYI I'm the proud owner of a TS 8.25. Three months in and I love it.
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: kies1 on December 22, 2018, 11:05:37 am
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: Tman122 on December 22, 2018, 12:09:42 pm
I don't think Master Spa is that bad. They are mediocre tubs. Their business practices are terrible.
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: swilly1000 on December 22, 2018, 12:43:47 pm
Said it ssssssoooooo many times. Don't give a rat's was about their business practices. I care about whether they make a good tub. The jets in mind are awesome.  Hydrotherapy baby!
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: castletonia on December 22, 2018, 01:08:58 pm
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  Whether the OP comes back to defend his opinion or not is yet to be seen.

Swilly1000, I'm glad you are enjoying your hot tub.  You may not care about Master Spas business practices and that is fine.  Everyone here that uses that as a reason they dislike Master Spa is doing so because those bad business practices have two end results: screwing the customer and giving the industry a black eye.  Now, if your dealer is top notch and takes care of you, you likely will never have to worry about Master Spas ethics and whatnot, but if your dealer doesn't then that is when you or the next customer will care.
 
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: BullFrogSpasMN on December 22, 2018, 01:11:36 pm
Master's a good brand for parking lot sales and guys selling spas out of their garages, no real threat to premium dealers who carry top brands.  Everyone in the industry knows what Master offers....I'll give you an A+ on the trolling though  ;)
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: Sam on December 22, 2018, 02:37:21 pm
Seriously, it's not some grand conspiracy against master.  There is this consensus here for a reason.  I've even sold master spas myself for a few years so I'm not talking out of my ass.  They aren't terrible spas, they are maverage to slightly above average in some areas and the company and many of it's dealers are shady as hell.  They certainly are not on the same level as most of the other brands I've worked with including Hot Spring, Caldera, Bullfrog, Artesian, Jacuzzi, etc...  This is an opinion formed with quite a bit of experience in all facets of the industry from sales to service to deliveries to management, marketing, web design and more.  I've been to numerous factories and have interacted with the office and manufacturing staff of quite a few manufacturers and I am comfortable and confident in my assessment. 

Again, they aren't complete garbage as a product but they certainly aren't top tier.  The company itself is shady and they encourage lying and misrepresentation to sell their products.  They also turn a blind eye to and enable their dealers in using a "whatever it takes" to get the sale approach, including outright lying, obfuscation and even theft.  None of the companies I mentioned above would allow those in their dealer network to get away with that crap for very long because they value their reputation.  Master only cares about making money, even if it means ripping old ladies off (see their bbb complaints).

I don't look down anyone who owns a master spa.  I'm glad that there are some here who are quite happy with their product and experience.  That's great!  I wish everyone was.  But most of those people expressing positive opinions either actively sell them or have extremely limited anecdotal evidence.  It's not a coincidence that most industry people here tend to be helpful, honest, and generally great stewards of our products while also having a negative opinion of that brand.  I mean you can't argue that the industry people here tend to be pretty cool and helpful while admitting potential bias and attempt to look past that bias when discussing other good brands.
 
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: swilly1000 on December 22, 2018, 02:49:17 pm
OK Sam, fair enough. 

From strictly a hydrotherapy perspective, in particular the power and massage therapy attributes of the jetting, rank the top five brands and let us know where you think Masters sits in the overall ranking.

Should have asked this question a long time ago.
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: Roeboat on December 22, 2018, 04:04:21 pm
Nice post Sam!
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: Sam on December 22, 2018, 04:12:35 pm
OK Sam, fair enough. 

From strictly a hydrotherapy perspective, in particular the power and massage therapy attributes of the jetting, rank the top five brands and let us know where you think Masters sits in the overall ranking.

Should have asked this question a long time ago.

This is obviously a subjective thing and you will likely get many different answers to this question.  What I think is important to look at is that when you ask this question to 100 people with enough experience to answer it, what are the trends?  Who are the ones that consistently make the top 5 lists?  I will admit that a lot of my experience with the jets themselves is not as recent as it should be to accurately answer with confidence since things have undoubtedly changed since I last sat in a master or jacuzzi or hot spring.

Another factor to keep in mind is that for instance, I like Bullfrog's oscillator back jets a lot but Artesian's footblaster jets are my favorite for feet.  So there isn't necessarily a number 1, 2, 3, etc..  Additionally, I've never sat in a Marquis but numerous people whose opinions I value will say that their jets are great, if not their favorite.

So I'll say that in my personal experience, I would have a top 5 list (in no particular order) Dimension One, Bullfrog, Artesian, Hot Spring, Sundance.  But again, I don't claim this to be an answer to "who has the best hydrotherapy", because I bet Marquis would make the list, I've heard good things about Jacuzzi and Caldera jets but my firsthand experience with both brand's jetting was almost 20 years ago and my memory is fuzzy (though I've been in the jacuzzi factory recently and seen them in person a bunch since then). 

Also, jetting was one of master's strong suits (on their high end spas).  Though they simply buy off the shelf from waterways (that changed very recently), they at least buy the top quality jets and power them with big pumps, and have a good air/water mixture so they feel pretty good and strong.  I am not implying that your opinion on the quality of master hydrotherapy is bad or anything. They may likely make quite a few top 5 lists (hydrotherapy wise) if opinions of the company didn't taint us.

Something to keep in mind; Another way many of our opinions are formed is seeing opinion trends and general consensus in our interactions with other industry people.  I speak and interact with people all over the industry on a daily basis and see a lot of trends in thoughts and opinions from smart, experienced people.  For example I currently sell 5 brands in some capacity.  When I go to a dealer retreat or training with one of them, there are lots of other dealers there who sell that same brand but maybe another one or 2 totally different.  I'm always sure then to ask for their opinion and thoughts on how aspects of the other brands compare to the brand that we have in common. 

I go to the industry trade show every year and see every brand represented there.  Though I don't get in the spas, I at least feel the jets with my hands and talk to most booths.

When we do offsite events, we often hire outside sales help and most of these guys have traveled the country and sold many brands.  My factory rep for one brand with whom I regularly speak and whose opinion I value highly, has done this even longer than I have and actually was a founder of a very large manufacturer that he no longer works with. 

It may sound weird or sad but my life heavily revolves around the hot tub world and I'm super invested in it.  I actually enjoy learning about all of this stuff and it's the biggest part of my life outside of my wife and maybe music (no kids).  I love talking to the chemical reps, or accessory reps, and I love hearing customer opinions.  I'm a total dork about this stuff.  25 of years of this and there are quite a few undeniable trends that I hear and see in what companies do what things well. This is why I may feel comfortable speaking positively about a brand that I may have never personally sat in but know quite a few people who rave about them and can compare them to those that I do know very well.   

Sorry for the long post.  I just want to explain that I'm not talking out of my ass and have formed these opinions with quite a bit of data.  I also want to admit that I don't know everything, am surely wrong sometimes, and I really just appreciate and enjoy the discussion.  I will gladly change my opinions with evidence that shows them to be inaccurate or incorrect.
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: swilly1000 on December 22, 2018, 04:36:38 pm
Also, jetting was one of master's strong suits (on their high end spas).  Though they simply buy off the shelf from waterways (that changed very recently), they at least buy the top quality jets and power them with big pumps, and have a good air/water mixture so they feel pretty good and strong.  I am not implying that your opinion on the quality of master hydrotherapy is bad or anything. They may likely make quite a few top 5 lists (hydrotherapy wise) if opinions of the company didn't taint us.

My biggest motivation by a long shot in getting a hot tub was the massage therapy.   I wet-tested a Marquis Vector and the jetting was really good in particular the foot blaster.  So is the Master Twilight Series 8.25 I now own, which is one of their high end spas. The Marquis and Master foot jets are pretty comparable, both really, really good.  You're right about the water/air mixture and the pumps.  You can get a really good, strong flow on a single chair diverting one pump to it and mucking with the air mix. 

They now use CMP jets, which I understand to be comparable to Waterways.

I have to admit that I didn't wet test any others and I wonder whether there are better massage therapy tubs out there. So one of my casual to-do list items includes checking out other brands down the road, which is why I asked the question.

I have long suspected that the opinions about the company have driven their rating down big time, in the process obscuring their strength in massage therapy on high-end models.  To wit the OP was talking about a high-end Master tub as well, so while he was quite dramatic in his post, he also may well be right about how it "....destroys any other hot tub out there...", at least massage therapy wise.

Thanks for your considered response.
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: bachman on December 23, 2018, 03:33:04 am
No one hardly mentions Masters Spas , which shows you a lot about this forum to be honest.

I've seen them mentioned and in fact most of my first impressions and excitement about thinking of getting a tub was the Master prospector on his video endeavor- Chris. Don't let it worry you they are not overly represented here. These are just folks excited and happy about what they ended up getting.
Is it any proof or sign of anything important that a brand you chose isn't getting a lot of love at certain sites or forums ? Not if you are happy with what you have- I M O.

Turns out, all the horseshit on here, and Masters destroys any other hot tub out there.

LOL -  I think a good tub would relieve you the stresses and angst (or H. S.) of such drama.... Let's get your Master checked out to see if it's working properly.  ;)

Insteresting to say the least. Very interesting.
But hey, salesmen gotta make their money, we all got lives and families to feed, no hard feelings.
No better tub out there today  better than this one

When I thought of a hot tub for entertaining, I had no idea how entertaining the subject would be !!   ;D  Not everyone has a gift for Late Night comedy, Thanks for chiming in.
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: Tman122 on December 23, 2018, 07:41:33 am
Master Spa has a ton of jet power, they are known in this area for having that power. They are also known for consuming a ton of power to created that jet power.
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: swilly1000 on December 23, 2018, 10:02:41 am
I've had my mine for almost three months. Still too early to tell, but for what it's worth my last three months hydro bills were $165, $208 and $144.  The $144 was for September and I fired up the tub on October 1st.  Not enough data to draw a valid conclusion, but those numbers aren't alarming me.

I've read the concern about hydro costs with Master.  If you want jet power (and I do) you gotta pay for it.  It's not free.  I've also read that they are noisy.  Mine doesn't sound that loud at all.  Conversations aren't strained by the noise.  In fact I like the sound of those pumps...white noise adds to the chill factor.  Again, if you want jet power (and I do)....

So far so good by me. The increased power costs are also a lot less then than paying a masseuse lol. I might get a half hour a month from a masseuse if I took those extra hydro dollars to a massage table.  I'll take the tub thanks. Always ready and able....and steps from my door.

Each to his own though.  Massage therapy isn't number one for everyone.
Title: Re: LMFAO at the absurdity
Post by: Spatech_tuo on December 23, 2018, 10:35:50 am
There are pros representing just about every Hot Tub manufacturer you can think of on this forum, certainly every major one. They all got together and decided not to knock each other but for everyone to agree to gang up, twirl their mustaches and slight Master whenever possible. I just never expected anyone would uncover the evil scheme against Master, the world's greatest hot tub manufacturer!! I wonder what Plan B is now that Plan A has been exposed!