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Hot Tub Forum / Re: Safety of Methanesulfonic Acid to Lower PH in Hot Tub
« Last post by HotTubLung on March 28, 2020, 09:55:42 pm »
Good questions.

Since I wasn't familure with the product I under used it slightly.  I have very hard water around 8.5PH and 230ppm alkalinity.  I added around 160ml divided into 2 doses on separate days, which brought the PH and Alk to slightly above recommended levels.  I didn't dilute the acid in water before pouring into the hot tub, which I later discovered I should have to prevent wear on the tub.  Nothing was written on the bottle except to pour 60ml at a time.  No ingredients listed either so I had no idea what I was dealing with.

I didn't enter the spa for 4 days after putting in any product due to chlorine levels being very high.  Free chlorine was 6.9ppm, total chlorine around 7.5ppm and combined chlorine at 0.59ppm. These levels were recorded by the pool and spa store where I purchased the MSA.

 I had recently done a drain, clean and refill and put two chlorine pucks in a slow release floater. Also I added a water conditioning product called Aqua Finesse.  All the products were added within a few minutes of each other, which I've recently learned from research isn't safe. I did however wear a mask and gloves when pouring, so no vapors were inhaled during water treatment.

  I try to use as little chemical product as possible, so I didnt shock the tub to reduce the chlorine, but rather kept the lid open for several hours throughout the 4 day span of not using it and the levels went down on their own to around 4ppm or slightly below.  I use test strips, so exact readings are difficult to interpret.

For further reference my hot tub is a Beachcomber 360 and it's only 9 months old.  I use it maybe once per week, but would use it more now that everything is closed. When I empty the tub I never see any scum lines or anything nasty, it just looks brand new.  A credit to Aqua Finesse it seems to keep the tub clean.

In the past I have used sodium bisfulate and never had any issues.  I'm still having respiratory issues, so I've avoided using the hot tub until I can evaluate the cause of the irritation.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Hot Tub Forum / Re: Experience with LS700DX from Lifesmart?
« Last post by swilly1000 on March 28, 2020, 03:03:50 pm »
also, of those 90 jets, looks like 88 of them are inexpensive bullet jets which aren't going to feel the greatest.

Completely agree.  Crappy jetting. Those 88 shifty little jets will start to irritate you rather than massage you as they assault your dermal layer.
Hot Tub Forum / Re: How's Business?
« Last post by Hottubguy on March 28, 2020, 11:06:56 am »
Storefront is closed.  Selling a few spas virtually.  Doing a lot of facetime, text and stuff like that.  Service we doing the same as you.  I carry Nordic (closed down for at least another 2 weeks), Caldera (closed for at least another week) and Marquis (open and manufacturing).  I think most manufacturers are closed except for Marquis and I believe Bullfrog.  Luckily for me I have plenty of tubs in stock to get me through this.  Traffic on new sales slowed up a lot this week but talking to a few promising leads right now.  I am working out of my store by myself so at least I am available for service questions, doing chemical deliveries after hours and talking to people about new tubs
Hot Tub Forum / How's Business?
« Last post by CanadianSpaTech on March 28, 2020, 10:23:11 am »
Here in Ontario Canada we are all shut down with only "Non Essential" businesses closed by law. All retail stores are closed or should be. As a Service Tech I can still work without ever coming into contact with the homeowner/customer. All the jobs I have done since this all started in early March I have not come face to face with any customers. Couldn't tell you what any of them even look like.  I phone them when I arrive and then when the job is complete then collect payment by e transfer. With most people stuck at home they are using their spas more than ever one would think that business would be steady especially this time of years when folks are opening up their spas from Winter. But it has been very slow completing only 4 jobs this week when 10-20 would be the norm. Not even getting the normal phone traffic with customers calling just to ask questions. Hoping it will pick up with the steady warmer weather setting in.

How's Business in your area?
Are you Open, Closed, business as usual?
Any issues ordering new spa stock from manufacturers?

Regards CST
Hot Tub Forum / Re: Safety of Methanesulfonic Acid to Lower PH in Hot Tub
« Last post by CanadianSpaTech on March 28, 2020, 08:07:38 am »
Did you over use the required amount?
Did you enter the spa directly after applying.
Did you apply other chemicals all at the same time?
Hot Tub Forum / Re: Safety of Methanesulfonic Acid to Lower PH in Hot Tub
« Last post by HotTubLung on March 28, 2020, 03:54:06 am »
Thanks for your reply.  The bottle says on it that it's intended for spa use.  I bought it from a company that sell both pools and hot tubs.  They also sell chemicals for both as well. 

I contacted IPG directly and they said they've never had a customer have an experience like I did and again reiterated it's designed for hot tubs.  I am inclined to think it's possible they aren't telling the truth, but I dont really know.

Where did you read MSA is for pools only?  I literally couldn't find any sources online showing it's use in pools or hot tubs.

Hot Tub Forum / Re: Safety of Methanesulfonic Acid to Lower PH in Hot Tub
« Last post by Jag8 on March 28, 2020, 01:53:09 am »
It is a product intended for pools not hot tubs. Did you buy it from a hot tub dealership or a pool supply store that sells chemicals for pools and hot tubs?
Hot Tub Forum / Re: Experience with LS700DX from Lifesmart?
« Last post by ratchett on March 27, 2020, 10:37:22 am »
The dealer you buy from is almost as important as the brand you're buying.   It could be the difference between hating your purchase and never buying another tub, or buying your second/third spa over your lifetime.

The reason why name brand hot tubs don't list prices online is because the dealer is a large part of the equation - they are your point of contact for all warranty service, as well as sometimes delivering/installing/setup with your purchase. Moreover these dealers typically know the local water source and how to balance it with their tubs.  You don't get that same experience with a "curbside delivery" mail-order hot tub.

The reality is these super low cost hot tubs are built to save cost on shipping, they will have minimal to no insulation (and sometimes even improper bracing to support the weight of the shell) and thus expensive to operate and heat.  Moreover sometimes you're lucky to get 5+ years out of the tub before experiencing major issues.  Meanwhile a comparably priced tub (of smaller size perhaps) from a reputable brand (and dealer) might be built to last 10-15+ years before you need to consider replacement. 

As the old saying goes, "buy cheap, buy twice".  This seems to ring especially true for hottubs. Even within one single brand name there will be different product tiers built to last different lifespans - budget tubs might be built to last a decade before things wear out, while their flagship spas might be built to last 20+ years with proper care and maintenance (In fact I recently met a neighbor who has a large 1989 Hotspring spa still going strong after all these years).

Do not buy the largest tub your money can afford, this will cost you more money in the long run in operating and maintenance costs (and replacement a few years down the road when it becomes more expensive to fix than replace).   Take into consideration how long you want a tub to last, then visit your local retailers with a bathing suit so you can wet-test the hot tub.  See how the jets feel, see if you like the tub (and the dealer).   

Also, what's a ballpark figure for what a spa disconnect costs for parts and labor?  We have a 220 line but the breaker needs to be upgraded to handle the amps/voltage.

Depends on a lot of things.  My dealer does the electrical hookup (for both 110 and 220AC spas) as part of the delivery/install assuming you have the electrical ran to the location.  As far as I understand the electrical side, you can't simply upgrade the breaker to handle more amperage, you would need to re-run a heavier gauge wire to the location.  The price for this would depend on how far your hot tub is from your main breaker panel.     If you are willing to dig any trenches necessary yourself, the electrical labor itself isn't that expensive - the bigger expense is the wire itself.   So if the tub is on the opposite side of the home from the panel, you're going to pay more than wiring up a hot tub 15 feet away from the main panel. I've seen people do it themselves for under $300, and people quoted over $1200 for electrical.  So it really varies completely on how much work is needed to run new wiring if your current wiring doesn't have the necessary amperage for the tub you want to buy.

What chemicals and regiment is suggested for maintaining it year round?

This will depend greatly on what features come equipped in your tub and how you use it.  The dealer you buy from should have a good routine based on your local water source conditions and tub type.    Some tubs come with extra features like ozonators, circulation pumps, UV System, Salt Systems, Mineral Cartridges, etc to reduce care and maintenance routines.   

How do we go about finding a reputable repair service?

Research the hot tub dealer before buying a hot tub.  Pay attention to their google and yelp reviews, especially those mentioning service needs.  Are customers satisfied with how they handle service issues, or do people complain.    I've heard that most warranty related issues present themselves within the first year of purchase, but still it's good to have a dealer you can trust since they may be the local regional technicians for that brand anyway - who better to work on your tub than the manufacture's authorized technician with access to all technical documentation needed to service the spa.

That's just my take, I'm still a newbie fascinated with this industry "soaking" all the knowledge I can.  I am by no means an expert nor a technician.
Hot Tub Forum / Re: Experience with LS700DX from Lifesmart?
« Last post by Tman122 on March 27, 2020, 08:42:58 am »
Good point on the bullet jets.  Is there a better make/model jet/massage-wise that comes to mind that fits 7 people and is under $4k shipped?


No, there is no such thing. Even under 10 grand with be tough if you want quality, longevity, and hydrotherapy.
Hot Tub Forum / Safety of Methanesulfonic Acid to Lower PH in Hot Tub
« Last post by HotTubLung on March 27, 2020, 12:10:51 am »
Does anyone have any experience, or knowledge with Methanesulfonic Acid for reducing hot tub PH and total alkalinity?

I was sold this product by a local dealer recently, tried it out and experienced very bad results including skin irritation and breathing difficulties after bathing.  The company that produces the chemical is IPG International Pool Group.  The product is called IPG Spa PH - with the active ingredient methanesulfonic  acid. 

There is literally nothing written on the web about using this chemical for aquatic recreation and that's a little odd/scary.  Thank you to anyone and everyone that can help.
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