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General => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Spot9 on May 24, 2019, 01:54:16 pm

Title: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on May 24, 2019, 01:54:16 pm
I went out and the display was blank. The breaker was bad and the test button was stuck in. I replaced the breaker and the tub still won't turn on. There is power going to the tub and the fuses seem okay. When I test the lines going from the board to the heater there is no power. There is power going to the pumps ( I think). It's a pretty old tub (2000) with a TPSA-1 Gecko Spa Pack. Any ideas on what I should be checking? Thanks!!
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: bud16415 on May 25, 2019, 08:41:28 am
So your GFCI breaker the one near the tub was faulty and you shut off the power at the main panel in the house and replaced the GFCI breaker. When you turned the power back on and reset the GFCI, it did not trip again? Did you try the test button o the new one?

You are getting 240V to the tub now where the power connections are made?

You mentioned fuses seemed ok. They will look the same if they are blown or not. I would start by checking the fuses. It sounds like you have lost one leg of your 240V and fuses would be the likely thing to look at first.   
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on May 25, 2019, 10:47:13 am
Thank for the reply. I will retest all the fuses. Last time I had a fuse blow, I still had power to the display at least with an error code.
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on June 15, 2019, 10:06:36 am
Okay, so I took the heater out and tested the resistence and it checked out okay. I cleaned all my contacts. I first reset the breaker with nothing attached and it didn't trip. I plugged the pumps and everything back in. Reset the breaker and it didn't trip. I filled the tub and reset the breaker and it was running okay, I even tired both pumps on low and high. So I went out for the evening and cam home for a nice soak with a cold beer and the tub was off. The breaker tripped and now it won't reset again???

Weird electrical problem?
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: bud16415 on June 16, 2019, 08:22:26 am
Okay, so I took the heater out and tested the resistence and it checked out okay. I cleaned all my contacts. I first reset the breaker with nothing attached and it didn't trip. I plugged the pumps and everything back in. Reset the breaker and it didn't trip. I filled the tub and reset the breaker and it was running okay, I even tired both pumps on low and high. So I went out for the evening and cam home for a nice soak with a cold beer and the tub was off. The breaker tripped and now it won't reset again???

Weird electrical problem?

This is just a guess. When a GFCI protects anything it shuts down as soon as it sees 5ma of fault. If you didnít have it in you would see a meltdown of something like a heater as that 5ma would quickly grow and grow and meltdown until the 50a main breaker was reached.

What goes in a heater is Iím told is a little bit of water weeps between where the heater is sealed from the water. This slight short is enough to trip the GFCI before any damage can happen to you or the tub from the 240v.

Taking the heater out and drying it off and measuring resistance will show that the heating coil is still good because it was never overloaded enough to fail. So the heater will test good still as it didnít burnout just that it shorted the 5ma.

You would have to look for a slight current path between the metal and the two hot connections or look for any signs of weeping or such that could be causing a short path.

If you unhook the power to the heater and the GFCI resets and the tub works or you get a open heater message it would lead me back to the heater. Make sure you tape those wires off before testing that.

Again just some Guessing on my part and Iím just a tub owner not a service person.   
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on June 16, 2019, 09:47:11 am
Thanks!!  I just tested the resistence and it is reading 15ohms. I believe it should read between 9-14ohms. 15ohms should be acceptable?
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: bud16415 on June 16, 2019, 10:39:30 am
That I don't know. It depends on how sensitive your GFCI is and how accurate your meter is etc. You could do the math and get an idea how much current would pass. In another thread not to long ago we talked about using a megger tester set to 500v to test the insulation breakdown on a heater. If you do some google searches on heaters and megger and insulation you will find a couple vids on how to test with a megger. 
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on June 16, 2019, 10:46:04 am
Thanks Bud16415. So I was about to take the board off to see if I had a bad solder on the back and found a bit of water on one of the heater terminals. I dried it off and the breaker didn't trip. So, looks like water is somehow coming up through the heater,
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: bud16415 on June 16, 2019, 11:11:43 am
Thanks Bud16415. So I was about to take the board off to see if I had a bad solder on the back and found a bit of water on one of the heater terminals. I dried it off and the breaker didn't trip. So, looks like water is somehow coming up through the heater,

Sounds like you solved the problem. Before I bought our tub I wanted to know how hard it would be to do my own repairs and also how safe it would be sitting in 400 gallons of water with 240v heating the water. I watched a bunch of vids on heaters and one showed this weeping condition you are seeing. He then eliminated the GFCI and let a normal fault happen and it is a good reminder why we all want a working GFCI, and why we should test them once a month.

If thatís the original heater I would say 19 years is a good life span.  :)
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on June 16, 2019, 01:08:12 pm
No, I have replace the heater at least twice and the pump twice since I took over the tub. I moved here in 2012 and the tub was bought in 2000. I put in a titanium heater this time because I am using a salt chlorinator
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: bud16415 on June 16, 2019, 03:01:48 pm
Oh ok. Iím running salt in my water also without a chlorine generator yet. I donít think salt should affect the stainless steel but who knows what grade they are made from especially aftermarket products. They are subject to a lot of thermal cycles and welds are only as good as the process. There is also planned obsolescence.

If I can ask what type of salt gen are you using? I love the feel of the salt in the water and thinking of buying a saltron-mini.   
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on June 19, 2019, 01:46:01 pm
I am using a ControlOMatic TechniChlor Hot Tub and Spa Saltwater System Chorine Generator with Boost Mode
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spatech_tuo on June 19, 2019, 02:09:12 pm
Oh ok. Iím running salt in my water also without a chlorine generator yet. I donít think salt should affect the stainless steel but who knows what grade they are made from especially aftermarket products. They are subject to a lot of thermal cycles and welds are only as good as the process. There is also planned obsolescence.

If I can ask what type of salt gen are you using? I love the feel of the salt in the water and thinking of buying a saltron-mini.   

I hate to state the obvious but if you're not using a chlorine generator with the salt then you're not creating any chlorine and therefore just have salty water.

In order for the salt alone to have any effect (other than feel) you'd have to have VERY salty water (many, many times what is used with a salt generator) and even then it will only help so much. If you do that you will be subjecting your metals to corrosion so you really need to limit how much salt you add and in that case it won't be effective from a sanitizing standpoint though you may prefer the feel of it.
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on June 19, 2019, 02:21:50 pm
Thanks Mr. Mom.   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on June 19, 2019, 02:23:39 pm
New update. The spa stays on but if I turn on the jets, it will run for about 5 minutes and then trips the breaker. Pump over heating?
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: bud16415 on June 20, 2019, 01:42:47 pm
Oh ok. Iím running salt in my water also without a chlorine generator yet. I donít think salt should affect the stainless steel but who knows what grade they are made from especially aftermarket products. They are subject to a lot of thermal cycles and welds are only as good as the process. There is also planned obsolescence.

If I can ask what type of salt gen are you using? I love the feel of the salt in the water and thinking of buying a saltron-mini.   

I hate to state the obvious but if you're not using a chlorine generator with the salt then you're not creating any chlorine and therefore just have salty water.

In order for the salt alone to have any effect (other than feel) you'd have to have VERY salty water (many, many times what is used with a salt generator) and even then it will only help so much. If you do that you will be subjecting your metals to corrosion so you really need to limit how much salt you add and in that case it won't be effective from a sanitizing standpoint though you may prefer the feel of it.

I first added salt as an experiment in the same concentration as if I had a salt gen. I wanted to make sure everyone that regularly used the tub was ok with the addition of salt. I added 7 pounds of salt for a 350 gallon tub. We all agreed it changed the feel of the water in a good way. I proceeded with my normal tub chemistry as if the salt wasnít in the tub. Dichlor as a sanitizer switching to liquid bleach based around stabilizer level. I feel the chemistry was even more stable and predictable with the salt in the water along with the better feel. I have no scientific proof of the water being more stable but it seems that way.

Iím not doing any ocean levels of salt or anything like that and I still have plans of buying a Saltron unit in the future but just havenít got around to it. My last water change lasted 6 months and seemed as clear and clean when I drained it.

So the bottom line is yes Iím doing it for feel. I bought one big bag of pool salt and it will last many year with a tub. less than 50 cents per fill.     
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: bud16415 on June 20, 2019, 01:48:47 pm
I am using a ControlOMatic TechniChlor Hot Tub and Spa Saltwater System Chorine Generator with Boost Mode

Thanks. Your system is very similar to the Saltron-Mini I was thinking about. Good to hear someone having success with these drop in units. 
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: bud16415 on June 20, 2019, 01:53:45 pm
New update. The spa stays on but if I turn on the jets, it will run for about 5 minutes and then trips the breaker. Pump over heating?

Did you change the heater? If not it could take that long to work some water out of the heater to cause the trip.

I would be surprised the pump would run normal for 5 minutes and then trip something, but I wouldnít rule anything out. You said you have had pumps/motors go before did they act like this? It takes a lot of draw to trip the breaker on overload.
Title: Re: Coast Spa tub not working
Post by: Spot9 on July 11, 2019, 10:07:24 am
I have two pumps in the tub. Pump 1 was shot when I bought the house and bought a rebuild. The same pump was fixed because a thread from a bathing suit made it's way into and broke the impeller. I noticed my water level down and found that pump 2 is leaking. It seem to be coming right out of the pump housing, not a union.