Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: brnelson on February 25, 2007, 07:45:11 am

Title: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: brnelson on February 25, 2007, 07:45:11 am
It feels like I am coming full circle. In my shopping, a week ago about the only thing I was sure about was to stay away from full foam insulation. However, after reading many posts here and looking at some quality Hot Spring tubs I no longer feel that way. It looks like there are many people on this forum that have had trouble free full foam tubs for years. Also the sales people confirmed for me that any Hot Spring leaks during the first 90 days of ownership that cannot be easily repaired will get you a brand new hot tub.

Now on to my questions.  I went to a couple of places to shop Hot Spring yesterday. $8,495 and $8,695 were a couple of prices quoted to me on the Vanguard with the usual accessories. These prices were OK but don't seem particularly low to me especially since from reading on this forum, February is a pretty slow month for spa sales. In talking with the sales people it sounded like they may be able to come down a couple hundred but no more. Anyone care to comment on these prices. One other thing. The place that had the Vanguard at $8,695 also had it available in endurol for $6,995. That seems like pretty big difference in price. Is this endurol something to stay away from. I did a search and cannot find much info on endurol. Thanks in advance, Bruce
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Richs100 on February 25, 2007, 08:40:11 am
I'm not a saleman, but I've owned two HS tubs and have been very satisfied with both.  The first was a 93 Prodigy, and now an 06 Envoy.

The endurol Vanguard tub is what they refer to as their "Classic" model.  Go to hotspring.com and choose the spa page.  On that page they list the 2007 spas.  Below that listing is a link "Classic Series".  You need to compare the two models since there are significant differences.  1 pump vs. 2 pumps, water feature, Moto massage vs DX Moto massage.  The classic series is very simlar in appearance to my old Prodigy.  The new tubs have a much more flashy and up-to-date look.  (I think a version of a classic model is also what was being sold at Costco earlier this year)  Take a look at the website and and compare the two models.  

Rich
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Chad on February 25, 2007, 09:10:55 am
Vanguard
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tileman_photos/vanguard_large.jpg)
Classic Vanguard
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tileman_photos/pht_classic_tub_vanguard.jpg)
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Chad on February 25, 2007, 09:21:42 am
FWIW, I wouldn't spend $7K for a one pump tub even if it is a HS.
There are many tubs out there in that price range that have alot more to offer.
For instance, this beauty is around $7K. It's the J-365.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tileman_photos/j365.jpg)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tileman_photos/J365_plat_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: brnelson on February 25, 2007, 09:26:50 am
Thanks for the info. I originally thought the only difference was the shell material. I guess the endurol model is ruled out then. In regards to the prices do you find that you can haggle a bit to get them down? Any recent Vanguard purchasers that wouldn't mind letting me know what you paid?
                                                                      Bruce
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Chad on February 25, 2007, 09:34:16 am
Quote
Thanks for the info. I originally thought the only difference was the shell material. I guess the endurol model is ruled out then. In regards to the prices do you find that you can haggle a bit to get them down? Any recent Vanguard purchasers that wouldn't mind letting me know what you paid?
                                                                      Bruce
Click on this link for reviews and prices of the Vanguard(there's quite a few). Just type Vanguard in the search box.
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/reviews.cgi
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: brnelson on February 25, 2007, 09:59:00 am
Why Not, that J-365 looks interesting. When I briefly looked at Jacuzzi's previously (briefly because at the time I wasn't really interested in full foam) I remenber the sales person telling me that only the more expensive Jacuzzi's came with a 5 year warranty. Would you know whether the J-365 has 3 or 5 years? Whatever I buy will have 5 years.
                                                                          Bruce
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Spiderman on February 25, 2007, 10:12:08 am
Quote
There are many tubs out there in that price range that have [glow]alot more [/glow]to offer.


Could you expand on "a lot more"?  By "a lot more" do mean things like by-pass filtration?  

brnelson, as far as the prices you're being qoated, it depends on your location, but based on those prices, I think the dealers are being truthful in that they can only move a few hundred more Benjamins or so.
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: tony on February 25, 2007, 11:10:31 am
Quote
Why Not, that J-365 looks interesting. When I briefly looked at Jacuzzi's previously (briefly because at the time I wasn't really interested in full foam) I remenber the sales person telling me that only the more expensive Jacuzzi's came with a 5 year warranty. Would you know whether the J-365 has 3 or 5 years? Whatever I buy will have 5 years.
                                                                          Bruce

The J-365 is on the high end of the "3" series and has a five year warranty.  I believe all the Jacuzzis except those built for the big box stores have a five year warranty.  Anything in the 3 or 4 series certainly do.
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Chad on February 25, 2007, 11:16:47 am
Quote

The J-365 is on the high end of the "3" series and has a five year warranty.  I believe all the Jacuzzis except those built for the big box stores have a five year warranty.  Anything in the 3 or 4 series certainly do.
Thanks Tony.

10 year on the spa structure
7 years on the shell surface
5 years on electrical, plumbing, equipment, and controls
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: brnelson on February 25, 2007, 11:41:10 am
Thanks Tony!

Why Not, I think I saw a past thread that said you own a Jacuzzi. May I ask which model, how long have you owned it and would you buy another Jacuzzi?
                                                         Bruce
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Chad on February 25, 2007, 11:55:44 am
Quote
Thanks Tony!

Why Not, I think I saw a past thread that said you own a Jacuzzi. May I ask which model, how long have you owned it and would you buy another Jacuzzi?
                                                         Bruce
I have an '06 J-345. I've had it for 4 months and would definetly recommend it.
It's a great tub at a very good price. If you have any specific info you'd like to know, I'd be happy to share my experiences thus far (which have all been great).
Here's a pic.(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tileman_photos/IMG_0010-1.jpg)
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: brnelson on February 25, 2007, 12:10:59 pm
That's a great looking tub! Approximately how much less is the J-345 than the J-365? Is additional room the biggest difference between the two?
Would you say that the warranties are similar between HS and Jacuzzi?
Would you have an estimate of the increase in your electric bill with the Jacuzzi? My wife being the budget minded person that she is liked the Vanguard as it is supposed to be energy efficient.
I might just take a ride to the Jacuzzi dealer this afternoon.
Sorry for all the questions.
Thanks in advance, Bruce
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Chad on February 25, 2007, 01:03:38 pm
Quote
That's a great looking tub!
Thanks!

Quote
Approximately how much less is the J-345 than the J-365? Is additional room the biggest difference between the two?
My dealer prices their 300 series in $500 - $600 intervals. I paid $6K + tax. The 365 was $7k.
The 365 is 7'' longer on one side and sits 2'' higher and holds 40 more gallons. They also use a slightly different control pack(supposedly better than mine). I wet tested both and actually narrowed down my 8 dealer search to those two tubs. The only reason I didn't go with the 365 was b/c it was a little too much tub for just me.(I live by myself). They're basically the exact same tub exept the 365 has a foot dome.
Besides that they both felt the exact same.

Quote
Would you say that the warranties are similar between HS and Jacuzzi?
Yes I would.

Quote
Would you have an estimate of the increase in your electric bill with the Jacuzzi? My wife being the budget minded person that she is liked the Vanguard as it is supposed to be energy efficient.
Even better than an estimate. I did an experiment a few weeks ago when temps were below freezing for awhile. I tracked the kwhs my house used with the tub on for 24 hrs then off for 24 hrs. All variables were very similar each day. I'll find the thread and post it's link for you. The cost of operation if temps were below freezing for a full month would be $23.10 for 330 kwhs. Costs per kwh will vary from city to city. For details just go to the link. :)http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1170035650/15

I hope this helps,

Chad
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: brnelson on February 25, 2007, 02:18:07 pm
Maybe there have been price increases or maybe New England is higher but the J-365 is priced at $8,000 at my nearest Jacuzzi dealer in North Attleboro, MA and models below it are less by $500 increments. $7,000 for the J-365 would have interested me but at $8,000 I think I would rather have the HS Vanguard. I appreciate your info though. The J-300 series do look nice.
                                                                              Bruce
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Chad on February 25, 2007, 02:29:03 pm
Quote
Maybe there have been price increases or maybe New England is higher but the J-365 is priced at $8,000 at my nearest Jacuzzi dealer in North Attleboro, MA and models below it are less by $500 increments. $7,000 for the J-365 would have interested me but at $8,000 I think I would rather have the HS Vanguard. I appreciate your info though. The J-300 series do look nice.
                                                                              Bruce
Your welcome.

That doesn't surprise me that there is that big of a difference in price from MO to the east cost. I wish the best in your quest for spatopia.
Keep us updated,

Chad
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: shabba34 on February 25, 2007, 02:52:35 pm
I sell Vanguards w/cover, cover cradle, FW III cd ozone, 32" double wood or plastic steps, 220 sub-panel, delivery and set up, chemical start-up kit ranging from 8500.00 - 9500.00 depending on what part of the country I'm in.  Sounds like the pricing you've been quoted are in line.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: brnelson on February 25, 2007, 04:08:56 pm
Thanks PKUD. It does help. I'll be making a decision this week.  

One additional question. How would the electric hook-up be handled. I have an outside electrical outlet a few feet from where the hot tub will be. From what I understand, the hot tub must be hard-wired for electric. The ground is frozen now and covered with an inch or two of snow. I guess that means I would have to wait a month or so to have it delivered. The hot tub will be on a 10' by 10' section of concrete patio I had poured last summer. In that section the concrete is 6 inches thick with re-bar rods for reinforcement.
                                                                 Bruce
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Chad on February 25, 2007, 04:33:51 pm
Quote
 

One additional question. How would the electric hook-up be handled. I have an outside electrical outlet a few feet from where the hot tub will be. From what I understand, the hot tub must be hard-wired for electric. The ground is frozen now and covered with an inch or two of snow. I guess that means I would have to wait a month or so to have it delivered. The hot tub will be on a 10' by 10' section of concrete patio I had poured last summer. In that section the concrete is 6 inches thick with re-bar rods for reinforcement.
                                                                 Bruce
Codes vary, but typically the 220 must be atleast 18'' below grade. The electrician will have to run it from your main panel. Depending on the distance between the tub and panel, cost can get rather expensive. It's not unlikely one would have to pay $1000. There will have to be a disconnect in sight from in the tub that is atleast 5 ft away but not more than 15ft. Also your general gfci outlet that is a few feet from your tub, has to be a minimum of 10ft away but not further than 20 ft and it must be no higher than 6'6''. Some inspectors will let it slide if it's closer than 10 ft but I would definetly make sure it's atleast 5 feet away. It really depends on what kind of mood they are in. Some go strictly by the book and others don't. Of course you only have to worry about all this when you get ready to sell your house and you could always just take the tub with you. :)
Your patio is more than efficient enough to handle a tub. Most manufacturers only require a 4'' slab, so you're good to go. All you need now is some warm weather. 8-)
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Spatech_tuo on February 25, 2007, 04:58:17 pm
Quote
Thanks PKUD. It does help. I'll be making a decision this week.  

One additional question. How would the electric hook-up be handled. I have an outside electrical outlet a few feet from where the hot tub will be. From what I understand, the hot tub must be hard-wired for electric. The ground is frozen now and covered with an inch or two of snow. I guess that means I would have to wait a month or so to have it delivered. The hot tub will be on a 10' by 10' section of concrete patio I had poured last summer. In that section the concrete is 6 inches thick with re-bar rods for reinforcement.
                                                                 Bruce

Get a copy of the hook-up instructions from the dealer and take a glance, ti should be pretty striaght forward IF you take a few minutes and look it over. The Hot Springs deal will actually include the subpanel since it separates the heater breaker from teh pumps and isn't a standard box. If you go that route and you're getting a quote make sure the electrician doesn't add that to his quote.
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: brnelson on February 25, 2007, 05:59:34 pm
The electric outlet in the back yard was from our old above ground pool which was taken down a couple of years ago. The outlet is set about a foot and a half above ground level in concrete (I used an inverted 5 gal pail for the form). I had dug a trench probably a couple of feet down from the house and the electrician used plastic conduit pipe for the wire. He continued the conduit pipe up my house foundation and stopped where he drilled a hole through the wood siding. He attached this to a separate circuit at my basement circuit box. Can any of this be used for the hot tub?
                                                                                   Bruce
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: cburk0677 on February 26, 2007, 11:57:36 am
Not sure what part of the country you are in but I'm in Indianapolis. My wife and I bought a Vanguard 2006 in December of 2006. We got the sterling marble interior and coastal grey cabinet, everwood steps, cover cradle lifter, cover, startup chemicals, delivery, etc. We paid $8200 out the door, this included all taxes.

Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Chas on February 26, 2007, 12:00:48 pm
That sounds like a year-end sale.

Was the tub a floor model?

BTW - welcome to SpaTopia, may you soak long and prosper.

 8-)
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: brnelson on February 26, 2007, 12:44:38 pm
Thanks cburk0677. That does sound like a good price. Over $700 less than my deal with taxes. I am in Rhode Island by the way.
                                   Bruce
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: dunerunner25 on February 26, 2007, 01:16:23 pm
California must be a very competitive market because my Grandee was less than that out the door bran new.  I got a great price but I also went into the dealer buying 2 spas at once.  If you can find a friend or family member who wants a spa... this is a great way to do business and get the lowest price.  Go to all the HS dealers in your area and SHOP AROUND and WET TEST!!!
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: cburk0677 on February 26, 2007, 01:20:26 pm
Hi, yes it was considered a year end deal. It was not a floor model but it was the last Vanguard in that color interior that they had in stock.
Title: Re: A Couple of HS Vanguard Questions
Post by: Spatech_tuo on February 26, 2007, 01:45:03 pm
Quote
California must be a very competitive market because my Grandee was less than that out the door bran new.  I got a great price but I also went into the dealer buying 2 spas at once.  If you can find a friend or family member who wants a spa... this is a great way to do business and get the lowest price.  Go to all the HS dealers in your area and SHOP AROUND and WET TEST!!!

That really does work but is rare. A couple years back a guy was pushing for a special deal. After haggling the boss said $5500 minimum but the guy said $5000 max; there was no compromising so he walked (the $5500 price was really a good price). Two weeks later he called and asked if he bought 2 could he get the $5000 deal for each and was told yes. Sure enough he came in with a friend, they each bought the spa and he got the price he wanted. The reason I know/remember is I went to his house because it was a VERY tricky delivery and sure enough, it was about a $2mil house (he didn't get rich throwing money away I guess).

If you can get the 2-spa specials, year end closings, floor models, scratch and dents and even barely used spas you can sometimes get much better deals.