Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: xrdirthead on January 14, 2007, 03:03:23 pm
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My local HS and Sundance dealer said $25.00 to come out and do warranty work. He said to help offset the price of gas etc...
I live 20 minutes away from the dealer.....
I think that is kind of lame if your spending 10k on a new spa.
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I think a lot of dealers are having to add a travel charge, 20 mins away means a 40 min trip, that's time and gas that they are not being re-imbersed for. We do not charge for local trips right now, but I think that is going to change soon.
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That was on reason that I didn't go to the Hot Springs dealer...it may sound like a stupid reason, since $25.00 isn't much (I think the HS dealer told me $35.00), but it was the principle...If the problem was covered under the warranty, and I didn't cause the problem, I shouldn't have to pay for ANY part of the repair. My Marquis dealer has never charged me a trip charge and has always responded quickly with any issues or concerns that I have had...That's the way it should be ;) Warranty means make it right...
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That;s funny that you responded, Guzz, it was someone at your store that told me $35.00! ;)
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My local HS and Sundance dealer said $25.00 to come out and do warranty work. He said to help offset the price of gas etc...
I live 20 minutes away from the dealer.....
I think that is kind of lame if your spending 10k on a new spa.
FWIW, I just had a warranty service call and that same dealer only charged me $15.00 because I requested service on line through their web site. This was the first time they charged me. Although I live near the dealer's South Shore Store, all the service comes through their original store in Natick.
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That was on reason that I didn't go to the Hot Springs dealer...it may sound like a stupid reason, since $25.00 isn't much (I think the HS dealer told me $35.00), but it was the principle...If the problem was covered under the warranty, and I didn't cause the problem, I shouldn't have to pay for ANY part of the repair. My Marquis dealer has never charged me a trip charge and has always responded quickly with any issues or concerns that I have had...That's the way it should be ;) Warranty means make it right...
We do not charge for local delivery, never have, sorry you were mis-informed, but as I said it looks like we are going to change that policy soon.
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We don't charge.
We just here the stories from chemical customers about their last 2 of 3 visits at $75.00 to $85.00 for EACH VISIT from other dealers. It does burn people, especially when they're not told upfront.
Buyer beware.
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Guzz, I specifically asked about warranty service calls, not about delivery. My concern was based on something I read on this forum. I think if the dealer tells you when you buy the tub...The warranty works like this..parts are covered, labor is covered BUT you will pay a trip charge, then there are no hidden surprises.
;). I think the gas cost increases get extreme and end up incorporating more than just the additional cost of fuel :( realistically, it couldn't cost $25.00 to drive 20 minutes to a service
call.
And HotTub Boy, that is why I will drive to my dealer to buy my chemicals..even though I can get them closer to my house and maybe a bit less expensively...I want to support them because they support me!
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What is a warranty and what is it there for? Who is it suppose to protect?
Any "trip charge" for warranty work within 30 minutes of the store is crap! If you have to charge $25 to cover the cost, get out of business NOW! You simply can't afford to stay in business as this obviously is a key componant to your bottom line.
I understand that some manufacturers don't pay for travel (some do BTW) but it's simply a cost of doing business. Anyone who does charge this needs to relook at their profit margins and make adjustments if need be. It's a petty way to do business and as we've seen, the comment by consumers (and rightly so) is, "I just paid 10 grand for my spa and now you want to charge me $25? TAKE A HIKE!
Whether it's mentioned upfront or not, it's a weak policy...
My suggestion to any dealer considering this is that they need to get creative and find ways to drive more traffic, sell more spas, sell more chemicals and excessories and cut costs elsewhere. It shouldn't be hard to find that $25 every once in a while somewhere else to help sustain your business... ::)
Steve
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My local SD charges a trip fee for warranty service. The HS dealer doesn't charge anything. It's a good thing to know up front before you buy. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem paying $25 if it was explained up front.
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Well what if it were Sears? What if you bought a new dishwasher and it stopped working while it was under warranty...AND Sears warranty didn't say a thing about a trip charge?...would you smile and say OK, I'll pay $25.00? To be honest, I would say incorporate a bit more cost into the tub (it shouldn't be too tough to figure out the projected warranty issues based on past performance)...the customer wouldn't really know and since warranty is part of the total package, incorporating the actual dealer part of the service into the price would be fair...Steve is right ;)..dealers who add this trip charge thing for warranty work (without telling the customer before they purchase) need to get creative!
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We normally don't charge for trip charges if we sold the tub. I have sold some that were greater than the 60 mile radius we typically serve and they were informed of a trip charge for warranty work plus delivery cost. No problem, when disclosed up front. All understood and agreed.
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I am told that travel fees are not unique to the hot tub industry.
Warranties clearly state parts and labor are covered and dealer may charge a travel fee.
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I had warranty work done at my home and they didn't charge me anything. But, I bought a Sundance spa. :)
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So the wise buyer should make a point to ask... ;)
I posted a while ago about being angry over a trip charge for my plumber. I was mad because blaiming it on increased gas costs..was crazy since I could have driven to North Carolina for the trip charges...BUT this wasn't warranty work... ;)
I think what rattles me is that we, as consumers, take the brunt of ALL of the fuel increases...It costs more to drive, food and virtually everything cost more because of the fuel costs. ..and service companies can also ask us to absorb their increases...so we get it all..I think we should get a tax break...
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I've said it before....we've never charged for warranty work, probably never will. We are, however, raising the fee for out of warranty service calls from $60 to $90. It's the first time we've charged more than $60 in over 10 years.
I'm off to Kansas City (weather permitting) and hoping to meet up with Galen and go eat some steak. Ya'll take care and be fruitful to one another this week. :)
Terminator
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So the wise buyer should make a point to ask... ;)
Actually, the wise buyer asks AND gets it in writing that it won't change on them at a later date. Just because they don't charge for warranty work today when you're buying doesn't mean they can't change their policy and begin to add that charge later.
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I have never had to pay for warranty work in S. Dakota, and I have bought from HS dealer and Caldera dealer.
Neo
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Most of the builders who we subcontract for have a two year warranty on all their homes. Every sub, us included, must do all call backs at no charge to the consumer, no matter who's fault it is. It's a small price to pay for a well organized business.
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So the wise buyer should make a point to ask... ;)
I posted a while ago about being angry over a trip charge for my plumber. I was mad because blaiming it on increased gas costs..was crazy since I could have driven to North Carolina for the trip charges...BUT this wasn't warranty work... ;)
I think what rattles me is that we, as consumers, take the brunt of ALL of the fuel increases...It costs more to drive, food and virtually everything cost more because of the fuel costs. ..and service companies can also ask us to absorb their increases...so we get it all..I think we should get a tax break...
Bonibelle,
As you know I live in your area and I'm getting ready to purchase a new tub. I will ask about warranty trip charges. As a consumer I have never heard of "trip charges" for products under warranty. I agree Bonibelle, that this should be incorporated into the total package price, and we as consumers are getting the raw end of the deal for rising energy costs. >:(
Bluesman 8-)
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My Marquis dealer is 60 miles away and needs to also take a toll road. He started charging a $75 trip fee last spring. His round trip time is 2 hours plus the time he is at my house. I think its a little steep but what can you do? I'm sure Marquis doesn't pay him for the trip time.
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I view this situation from a little different angle. I own a spa repair business. We do warranty work for a number of companies in town. Five years ago the warranty reimbursement rate was $55/hr. Today, the rate is $50/hr. We currently do not charge a trip fee, but are looking really closley at starting to charge $20-25 per call. We do not make any money off of the sale of these tubs. This fee is not only for "gas". There is more that goes into it than that. Tires, wear and tear, insurance, etc... EVERY manufacturer that we have done work for, for one reason or another, will not reimburse for every service call or additional time to complete some jobs. This turns into my company "eating" these loses. It is win win for the manufacturer. Not only do they make money off of the sale, they don't lose as much money on service calls.
I know what you all are thinking, "Why continue to do their work?". Good question. In the past, we justified this thinking we were getting non warranty calls- so it balances out. If the economy goes south, some people put off fixing their spa- therefore no non warranty work.
We are thinking just as hard about doing no warranty work, as we are about charging warranty calls a service charge. I think this would save us a lot of trouble, but would result in laying hard working techs off, and would reduce the quality of warranty work provided to my customers. $25 may seem like a lot, but it is a small price to pay for expedited quality work. Just my two cents.
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The bottom line is most customers do not ask prior to the purchase. Then when they get a bill they get pissed.
The consumer should think of your warranty as insurance. The repairman travel charge is your deductible.
In the grand scheme of things and as the previous poster stated, the amount typically charged isn’t a big deal especially for expedited quality work.
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Interesting thread. For us, I don't know, . . . yet. We haven't had to have a warrantee call, but believe we are covered.
When we purchased our SPA, some of the warrantees we read allowed the dealer to charge a 'travel fee' to offset the costs of travel. I thought this was bogus so we avoided those brands. The brand we bought, . . . their clause says the dealer could only charge a travel fee if the SPA location was OUTSIDE of their normal service area. That sounded reasonable, and could/should be disclosed by the dealer at time of the sale.
The reality is this goes back to the SPA manufacturer. Most manufacturers today set aside a small percentage of the sale and it goes into a warrantee fund. When service is performed, the servicing agent bills the manufacturer and they reimburses for the repair out of this fund.
If a SPA manufacturer isn't paying enough for proper warrantee work and its dealers are forced to charge a 'service call' for travel, . . . shame on the manufacturer and a big black eye for their reputation. This isn’t rocket science, . . . almost ever hard goods manufacturer in this country wants to protect its reputation and will stand behind its product with well documented warrantees that include on site repairs for assets that are ‘fixed’ once installed..
I would never intentionally accept this, . . . from any company. A SPA is a fixed assets once installed and the manufacturer needs to factor the total cost - including travel time - into planning its warrantee funding approach.
I feel sorry for you dealers that are forced to charge travel fees because of improper reimbursement from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, you are put into a very tough spot and are likely loosing some business because the manufacturer whose product you sell chooses not to stand behind their products. We avoided Sundance directly because of this during our SPA search.
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I view this situation from a little different angle. I own a spa repair business. We do warranty work for a number of companies in town. Five years ago the warranty reimbursement rate was $55/hr. Today, the rate is $50/hr. We currently do not charge a trip fee, but are looking really closley at starting to charge $20-25 per call. We do not make any money off of the sale of these tubs. This fee is not only for "gas". There is more that goes into it than that. Tires, wear and tear, insurance, etc... EVERY manufacturer that we have done work for, for one reason or another, will not reimburse for every service call or additional time to complete some jobs. This turns into my company "eating" these loses. It is win win for the manufacturer. Not only do they make money off of the sale, they don't lose as much money on service calls.
I know what you all are thinking, "Why continue to do their work?". Good question. In the past, we justified this thinking we were getting non warranty calls- so it balances out. If the economy goes south, some people put off fixing their spa- therefore no non warranty work.
We are thinking just as hard about doing no warranty work, as we are about charging warranty calls a service charge. I think this would save us a lot of trouble, but would result in laying hard working techs off, and would reduce the quality of warranty work provided to my customers. $25 may seem like a lot, but it is a small price to pay for expedited quality work. Just my two cents.
A service company doing warranty work for a manufacturer is something entirely different. You aren't able to recoup your loses via the retail chain but then again, you are aware of the total cost to do work for these companies so it is up to you to negotiate with the manufacturers or dealers directly to cover your loses. I still don't beleive it's the consumers responsibility as they paid for the warranty in the price of the spa!
I'm sure you wouldn't knowingly except a contract where you knew you would lose money right?
We would only consider charging when the consumer lived over an hour away and the spa itself was over 2 years old.
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I had warranty work done at my home and they didn't charge me anything. But, I bought a Sundance spa. :)
It has nothing to the with the brand of spa, every warranty I have read states you could be charged a travel fee. It is the dealers choice. You are paying for it either way, in the cost of the spa or if and when you need warranty work.
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Like GM or Ford do with cars, I'll bet most hot tub dealers wouldn't charge if you bring your tub to them.
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Like GM or Ford do with cars, I'll bet most hot tub dealers wouldn't charge if you bring your tub to them.
That is very true. It certainly costs money to bring the car to the dealer if it needs to be towed.
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There is no trip charge for warranty work that I do as long as it is with one of my new spa customers. If I perform warranty work on a Coleman that another dealer originally sold, then I charge for the trip. Half the time people tip my service tech, they make out ok....Tom
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It has nothing to the with the brand of spa, every warranty I have read states you could be charged a travel fee. It is the dealers choice. You are paying for it either way, in the cost of the spa or if and when you need warranty work.
I disagree, . . . the manufacturer of the SPA determines how they are going to set up their warrantee program. They can choose not to offer any warrantee if they wish. They can choose to fully/properly pay the service center or come up with a structure where all parties 'share' the cost of the warrantee. Consumers then can make a purchase decision based on what is offered.
In my opinion, if a SPA company chooses to weasel out of their responsibilities to pad their bottom line by not properly paying the repair service company, they can choose to do that. But, to me, that reflects very negatively on them as a business. Consumers have a choice when it comes to this, . . . I did, and was very concerned about Sundance’s wording in their warrantee that allowed for ‘travel charges’. So much so, that we decided not to buy that brand even though we like the SPA we were looking at.
The warrantees do read differently. A couple of examples, . . .
Sundance: "There will be no charge for parts or labor to repair the defect, although you may be assessed reasonable repairman travel charges."
Artesian: "There will be no charge for parts and labor within the above terms. However, travel charges are not covered if you live outside a normal service area of the agent."
Any warrantee’s legalities can be debated, . . . but to me, those are completely different programs.
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That is very true. It certainly costs money to bring the car to the dealer if it needs to be towed.
This is why most car manufacturers now also include roadside assistance in their warrantees in the event your car is rendered immovable by the defect. This includes towing service to the nearest dealer for repair.
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Maybe they need to revise the meaning of warranty...
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I disagree, . . . the manufacturer of the SPA determines how they are going to set up their warrantee program. They can choose not to offer any warrantee if they wish. They can choose to fully/properly pay the service center or come up with a structure where all parties 'share' the cost of the warrantee. Consumers then can make a purchase decision based on what is offered.
In my opinion, if a SPA company chooses to weasel out of their responsibilities to pad their bottom line by not properly paying the repair service company, they can choose to do that. But, to me, that reflects very negatively on them as a business. Consumers have a choice when it comes to this, . . . I did, and was very concerned about Sundance’s wording in their warrantee that allowed for ‘travel charges’. So much so, that we decided not to buy that brand even though we like the SPA we were looking at.
The warrantees do read differently. A couple of examples, . . .
Sundance: "There will be no charge for parts or labor to repair the defect, although you may be assessed reasonable repairman travel charges."
Artesian: "There will be no charge for parts and labor within the above terms. However, travel charges are not covered if you live outside a normal service area of the agent."
Any warrantee’s legalities can be debated, . . . but to me, those are completely different programs.
Like I said you pay for it one way or the other.
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While the Coleman manufacturers warranty states a reasonable trip may be charged for warranty work. My dealership doesn't charge our customers. Entirely, a personal decision in all due respect to my customers. If I sell it......I am not charging a trip charge. It is an educated risk.........after all how much warranty service should a tub require during its warranty period.......zero work is the case the majority of the time. Coleman is basically failure free. It is in any manufacturers benefit to build a product that requires no warranty work. Certainly, a manufacturer of spas, speedboats or whatever factors in warranty costs into their respective margins and when their products fail less often their margins are fatter because they have had less expense on warranty work reimbursement. But the manufacturers warranty work as a percentage of annual overhead expense probably never decreases, so a smart company will aggressively make adjustments as trends develop to minimize the warranty expense. That has been my experience with Coleman......their tech support is very responsive to warranty issues and will adjust the manufacturing process to overcome issues. The bottom line is the new spa really shouldn't need any warranty work, thus no charges are incurred.......
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I think we found our new replacement for Full Foam vs. Thermopane.
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The warrantees do read differently. A couple of examples, . . .
Sundance: "There will be no charge for parts or labor to repair the defect, although you may be assessed reasonable repairman travel charges."
Artesian: "There will be no charge for parts and labor within the above terms. However, travel charges are not covered if you live outside a normal service area of the agent."
Any warrantee’s legalities can be debated, . . . but to me, those are completely different programs.
Worded different but will give me about the same coverage if the selling dealer shuts down, as long as the selling dealer is around there should be no travel charges period for the duration of the warranty IMHO.
Here's a slight twist though, if I buy the Piper Glen and the Artesian dealer shuts down and no new dealer opened within 20 miles, and I need service on my Piper Glen, there will be travel charges from the next closes dealer/service tech guaranteed as Artesian nor Sundance or any other brand that I'm familiar with will pay for travel time.
John
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Coleman is basically failure free. It is in any manufacturers benefit to build a product that requires no warranty work.
Yep in a perfect world... ::) Though I am glad to hear that there is now a manufacturer that tries to build a great product.... That differs so much from the rest of us building & selling that crap! ::) Oy vey! ::) ;D
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Coleman is basically failure free. It is in any manufacturers benefit to build a product that requires no warranty work.
I saw Steve's post above and had to check to see if this was really posted. With all due respect to Coleman, the first statement is basically reality free. As far as the second statement, I think everyone figured that out but easier said than done.
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I saw Steve's post above and had to check to see if this was really posted. With all due respect to Coleman, the first statement is basically reality free. As far as the second statement, I think everyone figured that out but easier said than done.
Now if only we could get a tech's point of view on the matter... That would REALLY put it into perspective!!! Oh wait... we just did! ;D
No one is questioning Coleman's quality (well, not yet) but we just needed to reel ya back in a bit loosenup! ;) This time, it's catch & release... Next time we'll have to bonk ya over the head and throw ya in the boat! ;D
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Yep in a perfect world... ::) Though I am glad to hear that there is now a manufacturer that tries to build a great product.... That differs so much from the rest of us building & selling that crap! ::) Oy vey! ::) ;D
the better the product and less warranty work.......manufacturers makes more profit. Tech support isn't an expense item....it is a profit center. Think differently............
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the better the product and less warranty work.......manufacturers makes more profit. Tech support isn't an expense item....it is a profit center. Think differently............
I don't think anyone disagrees with your train of thought at all. The reality is that EVERY manufacturer, whether in this industry or not, is attempting to build products that last without the need for repair.
Coleman certainly doesn't stand alone nor do they produce a more superior product than most every other manufacturer. Are they "higher quality" or "better" in any way? Very debatable and that statement would require you to obtain a great deal of ammo to back it up with. I don't think we need to go there…
It's not a matter of thinking differently... It's being realistic....
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You Steve a thinking man......exactly my point. Old school thought believes for a manufacturer warranty work equals expense, more enlightened thinking sees warranty work as something through daily management of the production line as something that, in an ideal situation, could be eliminated. Then all the money not spent on warranty service parts and calls falls directly to the bottom line. Instead of fighting with the retailer and consumer about warranty work as a means of saving money, go in another direction and identify the trends and fix the problems. Unfortunately, many many companies prefer the fight and frustrate the customer. I use Coleman as a reference because I see them apply this idea of production management and as a result I do very little warranty work. Anyhow....enuf of this thread
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You Steve a thinking man......exactly my point. Old school thought believes for a manufacturer warranty work equals expense, more enlightened thinking sees warranty work as something through daily management of the production line as something that, in an ideal situation, could be eliminated. Then all the money not spent on warranty service parts and calls falls directly to the bottom line. Instead of fighting with the retailer and consumer about warranty work as a means of saving money, go in another direction and identify the trends and fix the problems. Unfortunately, many many companies prefer the fight and frustrate the customer. I use Coleman as a reference because I see them apply this idea of production management and as a result I do very little warranty work. Anyhow....enuf of this thread
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There's just a LOT of generalizations and assumptions there in assuming that most manufacturers don't care to address consistant warranty issues. What are you basing your information on specifically? I just don't think it's fair to make all of these unsubstantiated passing comments that perceive most manufacturers of not attempting to provide a great product to the end user and then ending it with "Anyhow....enuf of this thread". Do you seriously NOT believe that a LARGE percentage of manufacturers are working extremely hard at eliminating warranty and service issues? What is Coleman doing different than everyone else? :-?
Can you also explain your first couple of sentences? Am I being called "old school" and not a thinking man? :-/ (It would be the first time I've been insulted on this forum! ;) )
Steve
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... Coleman is basically failure free...
IMO, this forum is at its best when everybody (mfgrs, dealers, salespeople, and consumers alike), leaves their brand preferences at the door -- sharing their expertise and knowledge in a non-biased fashion. I think that if you had left Coleman out of the statement, and said "good manufacturers", or "the best companies", everyone would be agreeing with you. You can't expect other industry people, who feel just as strongly about their product, to let a statement like that pass without challenge. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with your concept, just the implication that Coleman is alone in that approach.