Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: dustoff872 on February 06, 2006, 09:14:18 am
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O.K. folks.
Latest delima. My gurgle is still here. The tech came out and fooled around about an hour with my HS Grandee. He even called Watkins and they did some "tests" but no "air leak" was found. The tech informed me that this is normal on some tubs. If this is the case I would like one from the other batch.
I asked the tech over the phone to change out the check valve and see what happens. He did and informed me that the gurgling got worse. He put the old one back in. As the tech messed around with the tub he admitted the gurgle got louder as time went by. He agreed this didn't seem right but had no other answers. His next guess is to change out the "ozone generator" and see how that does but it isn't covered under warranty. That didn't make me happy since the tub is 8 months old. I faxed a copy of the other thread from here to the dealer so they could see others have this problem.
Questions.
1. Is the ozonator NOT covered under warranty at all?
2. The tubs at the dealer I can hear the slight hum of the circ. pump and then background noise of the bubbles in the tub. My tub I can close it up stand 15 feet away and hear the gurgling (imagine what it sounds like IN the tub). Does this sound like a Normal situation on SOME HS tubs?
3. I'm getting unhappy with my HS Grandee and I was a strong supporter what can I do?
Thanks,
Dustoff
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There are two aspects of the ozonator, one is electrical and and the second is the hook up to the plumbing. I would think that if the ozone was changed out, the only thing that will change will be whether it produces ozone or not electrically. Most companies will warranty the ozonator for a period of one year.
Changing out the ozonator is not going to do anything to the hydraulic system that pulls the ozone into the plumbing system. One suggestion would be to cap off the suction draw inlet for the ozone, this will eliminate the ozone/air from being drawn into the plumbing system. If this reduces your gurgle, it is then related to how the ozone is plumbed into the system.
If you can isolate it to the ozone draw, that would be half the battle. Putting a new ozone on, is not going to change the plumbing hook up, only if it is electrically working, or not.
Air getting into the plumbing seems to be the culprit and the ozonater is a possible suspect. Do you have air venturri's on the tub, or diverter valves that chanel the water from one plumbing section to another. These could also be possible suspects, but I would defer those issues to the HS people who know the systems best.
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I asked the tech over the phone to change out the check valve and see what happens. He did and informed me that the gurgling got worse. He put the old one back in. As the tech messed around with the tub he admitted the gurgle got louder as time went by. He agreed this didn't seem right but had no other answers. His next guess is to change out the "ozone generator" and see how that does but it isn't covered under warranty. That didn't make me happy since the tub is 8 months old. I faxed a copy of the other thread from here to the dealer so they could see others have this problem.
Questions.
1. Is the ozonator NOT covered under warranty at all?
2. The tubs at the dealer I can hear the slight hum of the circ. pump and then background noise of the bubbles in the tub. My tub I can close it up stand 15 feet away and hear the gurgling (imagine what it sounds like IN the tub). Does this sound like a Normal situation on SOME HS tubs?
3. I'm getting unhappy with my HS Grandee and I was a strong supporter what can I do?
Thanks,
Dustoff
1) Don't swap out your ozonator as that will have minimal effect and it is random as to whether it would be minimally better or worse but most probably the similar.
2) The issue sounds like the amount of air going into the ozonator and then into the injector. As you saw, changing out the check valve had an effect (again random as to whether it is better, worse, or similar). What you can do is regulate the amount of air going into that ozonator with a simple valve where you can turn it down from it's current 100% open orrifice. I would call Watkins on this and ask as someone must have done this before.
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Dustoff, you should not be hearing any gurgling or humming at all on any of the spas. I have 5 spas up and running in my store at the moment and they are all quiet as a mouse. Tell the dealer that you are not satisfied and insist that they either get the problem fixed or you will call the manufacturer yourself.
I believe the ozonator has a 2 year warranty. You should be covered.
Good luck and I hope you get satisfaction from the dealer.
Terminator
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I agree with the adjusting the amount of air being sucked through the ozone system.
The other thing you can try is and enzyme product such as Spa Perfect. Sometimes I have seen that change ozone bubbles from big, gurgling to small fizzing.
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Use the enzyme...If that works change to a differant filter on the circ pump and see how it sounds.
I used to do the enzyme when customers complained about it and it always took care of the problem.
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Is this gurgle that you speak of (and what others have complained about lately too) the same thing as what I asked about last night?
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1139189400
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Hi All,
Thanks for the replies. I have a better concept of the workings now thanks to your posts. I am going to dig through my warranty stuff and see what I find. Also plan on leaving work early today so I will have some daylight to investigate inside the tub.
Is this gurgle that you speak of (and what others have complained about lately too) the same thing as what I asked about last night?
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1139189400
Brookenstein you are right on about the "soda fizz" that is a perfect explanation. Now it sounds like one of those office water coolers gasping at the air when someone fills up their cup. Only it is constant and at a quicker tempo than the water cooler. This too started after a refill of the tub.
I'll be out of town for a couple of days, I hope the dealer will come up with something when I get back. Thanks for the help and I'll keep the forum posted as to what I see or they tell me.
Dustoff
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Use the enzyme...If that works change to a differant filter on the circ pump and see how it sounds.
I used to do the enzyme when customers complained about it and it always took care of the problem.
??? huh ???
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??? huh ???
my exact response as well.
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I just did my first refill on my 4 month old Vanguard and I have noticed a gurgling sound. I guess I better call the dealer. This is the first time I have seen this problem mentioned on the forum. Before the refill I did not have that sound. If anyone gets this solved or gets an answer please post.
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??? huh ???
The enzyme breaks down the oils in the filter and allows the bubbles to flow better. That could tell us that the filter is clogging too rapidly and is either contaminated or just to tight.
I've seen three different filters in a HotSpring create three different scenarios in the bubbles even when they were brand new simply by shifting them around and watching the return.
Sound crazy but it try it..... ;)
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The enzyme breaks down the oils in the filter and allows the bubbles to flow better. That could tell us that the filter is clogging too rapidly and is either contaminated or just to tight.
I've seen three different filters in a HotSpring create three different scenarios in the bubbles even when they were brand new simply by shifting them around and watching the return.
Sound crazy but it try it..... ;)
;D OH!!! ;D
And thanks for the explanation!
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KZO Technologies manufactures a flow adjustment / backflow prevention device that combines with the Freshwater III ozone system and will eliminate the gurgling. It also eliminates check valve failures. The units retail for about $35 and take about 10 minutes to install. If your dealer cannot get you one, contact prescott spas, www.prescottspas.com
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Oh oh, just what we needed, another Hot Spring dealer! :D
Just Kidding ... Welcome!
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I also have a HS Vanguard 5 month old tub with the same gurgling problem as everyone else. I'm yet to contact my dealer. It seems this is some kind of design problem. It usually only happens after the tub is refilled with water and some times goes away gradually over a period of a few weeks.
That device from KZO Technologies sounds like a possiblilty...but first I'll contact my dealer.
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I have a 5 month old Vanguard as well. Haven't noticed the gurgling yet, but then again I've only changed the water once. What I have noticed is a noisy diverter valve. The tech that came out replaced it, but it didn't really change. He said that it was a poor design and that they "see the problem" a lot. He mentioned that it was basically air gettingin the valve and he suggested I call watkins to complain. Anyone else notice a noisy valve on their HS?
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I've had my Envoy for just over 2 months. I had no 'gurgling' until this first water change. Mine isn't that loud, it doesn't bother me... I just noticed it was different than before. I switched out the filter today as well as shutting the power off and turning it back on... no difference.
My diverter thingies also make noise, mostly the one closest to the lounger body, but that too doesn't bother me. I've been told my spa is louder than most because it is on a portable pad rather than concrete.
As long as the various noise issues don't indicate a problem, I'm not concerned as I love my tub.
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I have never seen the gurgling occur personally but it is evidently something that needs to be addressed. I spoke with a technician at Watkins and was told that you should contact your dealer and request an air adjustment valve part # 73808. This will control the amount of air introduced into the ozonator.
Terminator
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I have never seen the gurgling occur personally but it is evidently something that needs to be addressed. I spoke with a technician at Watkins and was told that you should contact your dealer and request an air adjustment valve part # 73808. This will control the amount of air introduced into the ozonator.
Terminator
Thanks Term,
I made it back in town. Prior to me leaving for a couple of days I fooled around with ozone system. I broke out the instructions and cleaned with vinegar. When you take the hose off of the generator the gurgle gets even louder. Put the hose back on and it quiets down a little. The vinegar cleaning didn't fix the problem so I wil check with the dealer on that part. I haven't heard back from them in a week on this issue.
I'll keep you posted and hope I get this fixed.
"Some tubs make that noise" just isn't a good excuse for what I paid. I like the dealer so I'm going to give him a chance before I get Watkins involved.
Dustoff
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When you take the hose off of the generator the gurgle gets even louder. Put the hose back on and it quiets down a little.
If taking the hose off resulted in less restriction and more noise afollowed by you putting the hose back on and getting noise abatement a bit I do believe putting a metering restrictor on the inlet to the ozonator will allow you to ever so slightly reduce the flow to the ozonator and making it quieter. You'll always hear something if you listen close enough but it sounds like in your case you don't have to concentrate too hard to hear it and it just needs a little adjusting.
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You'll always hear something if you listen close enough but it sounds like in your case you don't have to concentrate too hard to hear it and it just needs a little adjusting.
Yes I agree you will hear something. I do recall that I could stand next to the tub and hear the silent flow pump and it was quiet. Behind that sound, way in the backgound was the faint sound of that "fizz" from the ozone. To be honest, the only way to verify the silent flow pump is running is to put your hand on it cause the "gurgling" is drowning out any sound it makes.
Watkins should start putting that air restrictor stock on all tubs if that is the fix.
Now that I think about it, who pays for the part and labor?
Dustoff
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If taking the hose off resulted in less restriction and more noise afollowed by you putting the hose back on and getting noise abatement a bit I do believe putting a metering restrictor on the inlet to the ozonator will allow you to ever so slightly reduce the flow to the ozonator and making it quieter. You'll always hear something if you listen close enough but it sounds like in your case you don't have to concentrate too hard to hear it and it just needs a little adjusting.
But then, if we reduce the air flow, don't we reduce the ozone that is being injected?
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Hi All,
Wow it has been 3 months!
I sent the valve # thanks to Term. to my tech and he ordered it. I'm a little drive from the store so I was put on the back burner till others in the area joined the list.
The tech installed the valve last week and all is fine. The valve is a brass shutoff on the "intake" side of the ozonator. I pulled the cover to check out his work and it reminded me of the valve system with most home aquarium pumps.
All in all I'm now content. The bubbles are "small" and "quiet" just like they were when the tub was brand new 12 months ago. I don't think any ozone is being restricted only the amount of air intake is.
I hope this update helps any future or current HS owners. Now on to the next problem my auxillary control panel does not operate the pumps anymore. I'll call the tech in the next few days.
Sincere thanks for all help.
Dustoff
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I was a Beta tester for that system. Looked a little low-tech, but worked like a charm.
Something else that works is to put TWO check valves in line.
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look at the pipe/tube infront of the circ. pump suction. Do you see air here?
If you do, the ozone unit is NOT the problem.
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Bump for MLG. :)
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Bump for MLG. :)
Thanks Reese!!! This was quite an interesting thread, and definately sounds (pun intended) like my problem. I wonder if I could put on that valve..... [smiley=undecided.gif]
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Thanks Reese!!! This was quite an interesting thread, and definately sounds (pun intended) like my problem. I wonder if I could put on that valve..... [smiley=undecided.gif]
You are welcome. :) I can't imagine that the valve would be hard to install, and one of our fine HS folks (Chas?) may be able to talk you through it.
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I have never seen the gurgling occur personally but it is evidently something that needs to be addressed. I spoke with a technician at Watkins and was told that you should contact your dealer and request an air adjustment valve part # 73808. This will control the amount of air introduced into the ozonator.
Terminator
So Term, or any other dealer here.........can I order that part thru you?
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So Term, or any other dealer here.........can I order that part thru you?
Here you go MLG. I believe the part number for the Air adjustment valve is #73808. I'm not sure that you actually need this however. It may quiet down on its own.
The ozone system will naturally have somewhat of a gurgling sound since water will be circulating through the lines. Regardless, it sounds like you should clean out your system with vinegar per the link below since it was plugged. Good luck.
http://www.inlandhotspring.com/ozonecleaning.htm
(http://[IMG]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d25/Gomboman/flow_control.jpg)
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About a month ago, I did a drain and fill. I noticed a gurgling sound for the first couple of days after the fill. The sound went away by itself.
Has anyone else experienced the sound right after a fill and then have it go away?
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Thanks again Gomboman.....looks easy enough. Maybe I will try living with the gurgle for awhile.....just clean it.....it's not that bad ;)
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So Term, or any other dealer here.........can I order that part thru you?
PM with shipping info - I don't have one in stock, but I would be glad to get one and send it out to you if you still need it.
I have put a couple of them in - they worked great.
8-)