Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Zep on December 15, 2006, 03:41:22 pm

Title: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Zep on December 15, 2006, 03:41:22 pm

(http://healthlink.mcw.edu/common_images/logo.gif)

Swimming and Waterborne Diseases

Millions of people go swimming and wading each year, and most of them don't
get sick.

But the actual incidence of water borne disease is not known. Swimming is
communal bathing. When you are in the water you are bathing with everyone
else in the pool, waterpark, hot tub, spa, lake, river, or ocean.

Germs in contaminated water can enter your system if you accidentally swallow
the water, and can cause infection in your eyes, nose, ears, as well as in cuts
and scrapes.

A pool usually becomes contaminated with germs after someone has a fecal "accident" in the pool.

These accidents may be in the form of watery diarrhea. Therefore they are not
as easily noticed as a formed stool.

What kinds of diseases can I catch from swimming?
A variety of diarrheal diseases and other infections such as skin, ear, and
respiratory infections have been linked to swimming. However diarrhea is
one of the most common illnesses associated with swimming. Diarrhea is
spread when disease-causing germs from human or animal feces get into
the water. You can get diarrhea by accidentally swallowing small amounts
of water that contains these germs.

Doesn't the chlorine in the pool, hot tub, and spa kill all the germs?
No. Chlorine does a good job of killing most germs, but it does not sterilize
the water. A few germs can survive normal pool, hot tub, and spa levels
of chlorine for several hours to days. Chlorine must be maintained at proper
levels to kill most germs. The high water temperature of hot tubs and spas
may cause chlorine to evaporate faster. As a result, chlorine levels in hot tubs
and spas need to be checked more regularly than in swimming pools.
Remember: even if you can smell the chlorine odor the water is not germ
free.

Skin infections are the most common infections spread through hot tubs
and spas


Healthy Swimming Tips

Continue to make swimming an enjoyable experience by following
these steps to avoid illness.

DO NOT enter the water if you have diarrhea.
People can spread germs in the water even without having an "accident."

DO NOT swallow the water!
Remember: it's everybody's bath water and chlorine does not kill all
the germs.

DO wash your hands and bottom thoroughly with soap and water after a
bowel movement or changing diapers. Germs on hands end up everywhere,
including the water.

DO take your child to the toilet for bathroom breaks often.

DO wash your child thoroughly, especially his or her bottom, with soap and
water before swimming. Everyone has invisible amounts of fecal matter on his
or her bottom that ends up in the water.

DO NOT count on swim diapers or pants to keep fecal matter from leaking into
the water. These products are not leakproof. Remember to take your child to
the toilet often.

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: anne on December 15, 2006, 04:03:11 pm

I'm glad my spa is not public!

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Ehizzle on December 15, 2006, 04:32:00 pm

 :o :-[ :'(

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: hot tub Frank on December 15, 2006, 05:04:58 pm

this is why i use bromine and not clorine.
but i do have kids in the tub.

LOL

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Ehizzle on December 15, 2006, 05:45:11 pm

This is why I stand firm on my belief that all public swimming pools should be at boiling tempuratures. :P

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Vinny on December 16, 2006, 09:36:42 am

This is why you need to bring your chlorine (or bromine) levels higher every so often to get the buggers who are resistant to "normal" levels.

BTW hot tub Frank, chlorine is more powerful than bromine so if chlorine doesn't do the job I don't think bromine will either.

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Brewman on December 16, 2006, 10:25:06 am

Chlorine is a very effective sanitizer- I use it to sanitize my homebrewing equipment.
 And like the spa world, it works well, and is relatively inexpensive.  Yet it has it's downsides.  I use good old Clorox for the beer making equipment.

Again as in the spa world, there are many other brewing equipment sanitizers to choose from.  They all have some small advantage over chlorine in one or two areas, but at a trade off somewhere else.
  I use Iodophor (iodine based) sometimes, for example.  Only a very small amount is needed to do the job, contact time is much shorter, and no rinsing is needed.  
The downside is that it's more expensive, and can stain some plastics.  

  Sanitizing is what we get in both brewing and spa use.  Sanitizing knocks the level of pathogens (the things you are trying to kill) do an acceptable level, but doesn't totally eliminate them.  The only way to do that is with sterilization- and that is very impractical (and unecessary) for both spas and beer brewing.

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: In Canada eh on December 16, 2006, 10:41:40 am

Most of the problems with drinking water/ pool & tub water are caused by fecal matter ( e-coli ) and can cause a number of illnesses, however most are intestinal in nature and are not serious.  Large scale outbreaks,Walkerton, Collingwood and Milwauke(sp) can be much more serious.  A good chemical routine followed correctly should prevent any problems.  Obviuosly if someone has a "accident" in the tub you  may want to drain it :P

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Brewman on December 16, 2006, 11:48:45 am

Happens occasionslly at the health club we belong to- A "Baby Ruth" gets released into the pool, and it closes for a day for "super chlorination", or whatever they do after they remove the offending material.  Whatever their method, it must work, since the place hasn't had any illness outbreaks.  
 
 Ironically, there are more problem around here with public beaches being closed due to e-coli and pals than public pools.  Danged dirty fishes.............

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Reese on December 16, 2006, 12:26:13 pm

Quote

Ironically, there are more problem around here with public beaches being closed due to e-coli and pals than public pools.  Danged dirty fishes.............

I thought they usually blamed beach closings on dirty geese or farm animals.

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Zep on December 16, 2006, 01:18:26 pm

I know this is gross....but wouldn't there almost always be traces of human fecal matter in tub water after a bunch of people has been in a tub??

Especially with nude soakers.....without getting too graphic.....ok i will.....some people "wipe" better than others and you know common sense says not everyone getting into your tub is a "good wiper". I see signs all the time in restaurant restrooms saying "Employees Wash Hands" and then you see some bozo comeout of a stall and walk out the door without washing his hands. :-[
(http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sick/images_47746/1007655071048.Phand_washing2.gif)

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Reese on December 16, 2006, 01:24:31 pm

Quote

I know this is gross....but wouldn't there almost always be traces of human fecal matter in tub water after a bunch of people has been in a tub??

Yes, and that is why a sanitizer residual is a good idea... and putting your head under the water, or letting tub water get in your mouth is a bad one.  :o

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: bosco0633 on December 16, 2006, 02:39:58 pm

the local school where my 3 year old goes swimming is heated to 100.  It is like a sauna bath in there, but I hope that it is sanitized properly.  The water looks good, and we have not had any issues yet.

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Bama on December 16, 2006, 02:57:31 pm

Quote

I know this is gross....but wouldn't there almost always be traces of human fecal matter in tub water after a bunch of people has been in a tub??

Especially with nude soakers.....without getting too graphic.....ok i will.....some people "wipe" better than others and you know common sense says not everyone getting into your tub is a "good wiper". I see signs all the time in restaurant restrooms saying "Employees Wash Hands" and then you see some bozo comeout of a stall and walk out the door without washing his hands. :-[(http://kidshealth.org/parent/general/sick/images_47746/1007655071048.Phand_washing2.gif)

Zep,

Thanks for saying what I'm sure some of us were thinking.  You are right...there are people out there who walk around with "racing stripes" in their undies, these are the people to watch out for.  So, when you have guests over for a spa party...slip back inside and check their undies!  That way you'll know who to invite back!

 ;)

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: tony on December 16, 2006, 03:06:33 pm

A local private country club had an outbreak of giardia, an intestinal parasite, last year.  Almost impossible to tell where it came from, but it is more common than I ever thought.  I had a personal experience with giardia many years ago from what I now guess is a swimming pool in Venezuala.  I came home bug free, but only because I was so sick that my body expelled every living and dead thing inside it.  The other three with me did not fall ill but brought the bug home with them.

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Vinny on December 16, 2006, 03:39:59 pm

Quote

A local private country club had an outbreak of giardia, an intestinal parasite, last year.  Almost impossible to tell where it came from, but it is more common than I ever thought.  I had a personal experience with giardia many years ago from what I now guess is a swimming pool in Venezuala.  I came home bug free, but only because I was so sick that my body expelled every living and dead thing inside it.  The other three with me did not fall ill but brought the bug home with them.

This is one of the things that I think chlorine doesn't kill but ozone (and maybe peroxide) does I think it has to do with the way ozone (peroxide) destroys the cells. This is also where shocking with peroxide (baqua) excells at. Peroxide really disrupts a cell wall very effectively.

If you want to experiment place a drop of peroxide on blood (cut finger) and you'll see it foam up. Manufacturers use peroxide in the medical field to sterilize instruments and rooms, although it is more potent than the stuff we buy from a bottle.

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: tony on December 16, 2006, 03:43:15 pm

Chlorine will kill giardia, but not at normal public pool recommended levels (which would be much higher than yours or mine).  I think it may be as high as 20 ppm, but don't quote me. :-?

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: In Canada eh on December 16, 2006, 05:04:08 pm

Vinny's is right, giardia is one the nasties that is very resistant to chlorine due to the cyst like cell structure.  Ozone will weaken the cyst wall and then allow chlorine to "kill" the bug, another nastie that causes problems is cryptosporidium, however the most common is e-coli.  E-coli (fecal matter) is present everywhere in soil and on just about everything in your bathroom :o  sorry, I know its gross but its true.   Giardia and crypto are the main reasons drinking water plant are moving away from conventional filtration (sand filters) and starting to switch to membrane filters and ozone.  

Beach closing being blamed on geese is a laugh!  its more likely from your local sewage treatment plant upstream from the water treatment plant :-?

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Zep on December 16, 2006, 06:11:16 pm

re: So, when you have guests over for a spa party...slip back inside and
check their undies!  That way you'll know who to invite back!

LOL @ Bama......

That is funny....

Come to think of it I have done that once....but not for that reason.....lol

I went back in the house for more drinks....

And there "THEY" were.....laying there on the floor in all their glory!

Oh my.....  ;)

I just stopped....stared....smiled....and thought...."life is good".  :P

(http://www2.victoriassecret.com/images/prodpri/V260847.jpg)

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Vinny on December 17, 2006, 11:29:42 am

Here's something of interest:

http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=0007DE0C-D53F-1C71-9EB7809EC588F2D7&pageNumber=1&catID=3

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: In Canada eh on December 17, 2006, 07:22:46 pm

Vinny and gang,

     There is also alot of good info on the American Water Works Associations web site, although its more geared to drinking water

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Vinny on December 17, 2006, 10:06:06 pm

A lot of the stuff I see relates to drinking water and not pools and spas. Apparently as long as you maintain a 3 PPM chlorine residue you'll be "safe" in a pool or spa. Of course most people can't maintain this residue in a spa and then the bacteria party and multiply.

It seems that E Coli is an easily destroyed bacteria if the only thing needed to control it is soap and water - chlorine is a lot more potent ... it also states that a 30 minute contact time is good (no PPM though) and I would assume that the PPM of chlorine in drinking water is low, 3 PPM or less.

My thinking is if a disinfectant routine is good enough for drinking water then I should be safe soaking in it. I do think that our dose after soaking routine does have it's limitations as my kids have dunked their heads under water and gotten ear infections - both at the same time!

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: windsurfdog on December 18, 2006, 02:17:33 pm

Quote

Thanks for saying what I'm sure some of us were thinking.  You are right...there are people out there who walk around with "racing stripes" in their undies, these are the people to watch out for.  So, when you have guests over for a spa party...slip back inside and check their undies!  That way you'll know who to invite back!

[size=18]YYYUUUCCCKKK!!![/size]

Talk about disgusting!  Checking other people's drawers?  Now that's sick!
I'll trust the chlorine to do it's job, thank you...

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Bonibelle on December 18, 2006, 03:27:29 pm

I'm with you windsurf...pretty gross stuff...and part of the reason I haven't invited anyone but close family in my tub. ;)
BUT..I have an idea...when you have guests, replace all the toilet paper with those personal wet wipes...and for those guests that you are really concerned about..replace the wet wipes with Chlorox wipes :o...that should solve all the problems ::)

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on December 18, 2006, 04:31:41 pm

Quote

Most of the problems with drinking water/ pool & tub water are caused by fecal matter ( e-coli ) and can cause a number of illnesses, however most are intestinal in nature and are not serious.  Large scale outbreaks,Walkerton, Collingwood and Milwauke(sp) can be much more serious.  A good chemical routine followed correctly should prevent any problems.  Obviuosly if someone has a "accident" in the tub you  may want to drain it :P

I lived in Milwaukee during the good ole cryptosporidium outbreak. Lemme tell you from firsthand experience, it is NOT something I'd care to repeat!  Even Saltine crackers and water...nothing would stay in, it kept being violently ejected from the body from one end or the other (TMI, I know)...  :P

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: Bama on December 18, 2006, 10:32:10 pm

Quote

[size=18]YYYUUUCCCKKK!!![/size]

Talk about disgusting!  Checking other people's drawers?  Now that's sick!
I'll trust the chlorine to do it's job, thank you...

Come on Windsurfdog, you gotta have more imagination than that?
I suppose I felt that checking the undies for racing stripes was more discreet than having your guests line up for dingleberry inspection?
I have found either method to be equally effective.  
I't just whatever works for you.   ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Common sense about waterborne illness
Post by: windsurfdog on December 19, 2006, 10:11:15 am

Quote

Come on Windsurfdog, you gotta have more imagination than that?
I suppose I felt that checking the undies for racing stripes was more discreet than having your guests line up for dingleberry inspection?
I have found either method to be equally effective.  
I't just whatever works for you.   ;D ;D ;D

Sorry, Bama, butt that's where I draw the line (multiple puns intended..... ;))