Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: SpaNE on December 13, 2006, 03:56:58 pm
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Jacuzzi question. Jacuzzi dealer indicates that they have been selling spas for 50 years, original jet patents, etc. Sundance dealer tells me that Jacuzzi has been making indoor tubs for 50 years, however, they have only been in outdoor spas for about 10 years - since they bought Sundance.
Additional claims:
Sundance claims their filter is far superior because you only need to replace it once a year, whereas the Jacuzzi needs cleaning once a month.
Finally, Sundance claims that their jets can mix air and water in infinite combinations, and the Jucuzzi can only have full air or no air.
Comments?
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Sundance can mix air and water in different proportions. Both air and water can be adjusted from nothing to full and all in between.
Not sure if Jacuzzi does that, I recall they might not.
Sundance has a toss out filter, that is supposed to last up to a year, not sure if anyone is getting that much time out of them. My Sundance pre-dates that filter style. I think those filters cost somewhere around $90? I also believe that there is a standard filter availble for the Sundance.
I have no idea how long either one has been making spas. Take the competition bashing with a grain of salt regardless of who's slopping it out.
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Jacuzzi question. Jacuzzi dealer indicates that they have been selling spas for 50 years, original jet patents, etc. Sundance dealer tells me that Jacuzzi has been making indoor tubs for 50 years, however, they have only been in outdoor spas for about 10 years - since they bought Sundance.
Additional claims:
Sundance claims their filter is far superior because you only need to replace it once a year, whereas the Jacuzzi needs cleaning once a month.
Finally, Sundance claims that their jets can mix air and water in infinite combinations, and the Jucuzzi can only have full air or no air.
Comments?
The Jacuzzi brothers have been around since the 1900s In 1956 the Jacuzzi bros invented the J-300 pump for use in a bath tub. In 1968 Roy Jacuzzi invented the first self contained whrilpool bath the rest is history. Jacuzzi was building spas long before Sundance was a wet dream or anyone else for that matter.
Jacuzzi purchased Sundance spas a few years ago and together they built a new factory in Chino, ca
Both spas are top quality, While I like the sundance filter I have heard of some problems with them 1 would be most find they replace it twice a year from what I hear. 2nd I have heard of them collapsing from becoming clogged, cost I believe is 70 to 80 bucks to replace. Still its a very nice spa does it filter any better than the rest I personally dont think so.
On to Jacuzzi, you should clean your filters about every 3 to 4 months or average water change,the filter shoud last 3 to 4 years and run about 42.00 bucks. I really like the fact you can clean the Jacuzzi filters verses just throw the Sundance one away and buy a new one. If they were only 20 bucks or so it would be fine but I dont want to shell out 70.00 every six months for something that in my opinion works the same,the water in a Sundance still has to be maintained and changed every 3 to 4 months anyway regaurdles of the filtration this is true in any spa.
As far as jets the Jacuzzi jets I believe feel better than any on the market the thing with the Sundance jet you can control the jet a little more but I think the air is on or off also the only thing you can control is how the water moves thru the jet there is not infinite options on what flows thru the jet.
Like I said both are very nice spa's with different options. I sell Jacuzzi's so I am a little partial. Do a wet test and compare just make sure you are comparing apples for apples.
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The answers can be found here, grasshopper http://www.jacuzzi.com/about/history/ Your Sundance dealer lacks honor and integrity, move on spa seeker ;) (not winking about the sundance dealer comment, they apparently need to lie to sell their product, rather I was winking at the spirit of the post as a whole.) ;)
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The name Jacuzzi has been around a long time with part of that tied to spas. Was Jacuzzi the first spa maker? I don't know. Would it really matter if one spa maker has been around 30 years and the other one only 20 yrs? I certainly don't see any significance as long as you're dealing with someone with a long/good track record.
As far as the Sundance filters go, it depends on how you spin it. Personally, I don't want to have to rebuy a new filter every 6 or 9 months. Others will take that same thought and consider it a positive but I'm not part of the throw away society. To each his own but don't make this a big thing, EITHER way.
As far as who bought whom and whose is the "flagship" spa as has been debated on this site between SD and Jacuzzi people, I get a chuckle out of the need to argue that at all.
As far as the jets go and which spa to buy, wet test both of them and use that to decide rather than putting too much stock in the sales presentation you were given.
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I am lucky here as my main competiton is a sundace dealer and a hot springs dealer. I worked for the sundance dealer and know most of the sales guys with hot springs. The nice thing is I get people in that have shopped the others and they always speak highly of me and likewise when I am selling. Do I lose sales yes,do they lose sales yes, but I think between the 3 of us we do quite well.
Theres no need to slam the compitition (which every dealer can do) when you have a nice product to show and sell.
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The filter game is interesting. Both systems work. One is more expensive, yet more convienient.
The corporate owner of both brands is Jacuzzi Inc. or Jacuzzi Brands. They are both built at the Sundance factory in Chino.
Bottom line on that is so what?
Are those the only 2 spas you are considering?
Choose the one you like best.
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Lets get our historical information correct. The first portable spa, available in the retail market, was made by Baja. The brand of portable, or self contained, spa, sold under the brand name of Jacuzzi, was 6 months later.
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Are those the only 2 spas you are considering?
Choose the one you like best.
If it were only that easy. :-/
I picked out 5 top spa brands to research - Sundance, Jacuzzi, Hotspring, Caldera and D1. Money is not a serious consideration, however, I don't want to spend more than necessary. I have wet tested a few, and dry tested the rest. Unfortunately I can't seem to find a spa that is a clear winner. I might actually resort to buying the model with the nicest waterfall or coolest stereo... :o Kidding...
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The Jacuzzi brothers have been around since the 1900s In 1956 the Jacuzzi bros invented the J-300 pump for use in a bath tub. In 1968 Roy Jacuzzi invented the first self contained whrilpool bath the rest is history. Jacuzzi was building spas long before Sundance was a wet dream or anyone else for that matter.
Jacuzzi purchased Sundance spas a few years ago and together they built a new factory in Chino, CA.
Some misinformation here. Just a little.
Jacuzzi has been making spas since the beginning of time. However, in 1998 Jacuzzi bought Sundance with the agreement that Sundance would remain its own identity and that the Sundance mangagement team would take over the the spa end of Jacuzzi. Sundance was already in the Chino, CA factory at that time. The Jacuzzi spas continued to be manufactured at their own plant through 2001(?). In 2002, Jacuzzi Premium Spas were introduced by the Sundance team and built in the Sundance factory in Chino and the old Jacuzzi spas ceased to be made at that time. Jacuzzi Premium spas had many features of Sundance spas and retained some features of the Jacuzzi spas. Since then, Jacuzzi the parent company has gone through its own share of changes and at present, the company seems to be pushing some of the newer bells and whisltles to the Jacuzzi spas, something always reserved for Sundance in the past. Maybe the original Sundance owners are moving on and less involved, but there seems to be a shift in the original merge policy.
None the less, both spas look pretty close under the skin. Aside from jets and shells and air buttons, they are made at the same place by essentially the same people and are built with the same quality controls. The rest depends on what you like.
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Lets get our historical information correct. The first portable spa, available in the retail market, was made by Baja. The brand of portable, or self contained, spa, sold under the brand name of Jacuzzi, was 6 months later.
Was not aware of that I am going by whats plastered on the history wall I have from Jacuzzi. All in all while I like the history and its a great story,I dont use it that much in my presentations. Thanks for the history lesson,
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In 2002, Jacuzzi Premium Spas were introduced by the Sundance team and built in the Sundance factory in Chino and the old Jacuzzi spas ceased to be made at that time. Jacuzzi Premium spas had many features of Sundance spas and retained some features of the Jacuzzi spas.
So it was the Sundance people who designed the Jacuzzi Premium line? I was not aware of that. They do seem to try to keep enough separation so as not to become too close of cousins, especially to the eye of the consumer!
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In 2002, Jacuzzi Premium Spas were introduced by the Sundance team and built in the Sundance factory in Chino and the old Jacuzzi spas ceased to be made at that time. Jacuzzi Premium spas had many features of Sundance spas and retained some features of the Jacuzzi spas.
So it was the Sundance people who designed the Jacuzzi Premium line? I was not aware of that. They do seem to try to keep enough separation so as not to become too close of cousins, especially to the eye of the consumer!
Actually, they brought in a new design team under Sundance management.
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I don't know about your 1968 date of jacuzzi "inventing" the first portable spa. It very well may be true.
According to Jacuzzis web site history, it says he "invented and marketed the first self-contained, fully integrated whirlpool bath in 1968". A whirlpool bath is NOT a self contained spa, but a jetted bath tub. You'll notice it's not till their bit on the 1970's that they mention adding heating and filtering, with their first "spa" being sold in 1970. Baja still beat them by 6 months.
Lets get our historical information correct. The first portable spa, available in the retail market, was made by Baja. The brand of portable, or self contained, spa, sold under the brand name of Jacuzzi, was 6 months later.
Was not aware of that I am going by whats plastered on the history wall I have from Jacuzzi. All in all while I like the history and its a great story,I dont use it that much in my presentations. Thanks for the history lesson,
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Finally, Sundance claims that their jets can mix air and water in infinite combinations, and the Jucuzzi can only have full air or no air.
Comments?
Could some of you Jacuzzi/Sundance experts comment on this. When I wet tested the Optima I remember controlling the jets by turning them on/off and with the diverter valve. I don't recall any adjustments to control the amount of air going through the jets. Where is this adjustment and how beneficial is it? Do all spas mix air and water together in the jets?
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The current Optima model may differ slightly from my 2003, but there should be some similarities.
Most of the jets on my spa have a stainless steel ring that controls the jet- from all the way open to fully closed, and anywhere in between. In addition to that, the defined jet groups also have an air contol knob that can also be adjusted from fully closed, to fully open, and varying degrees in between.
The diverter valve also controls water flow between jet groups to fully open to fully closed and in between.
The air knobs are smaller than the diverter valves, and are located around the spa.
Adding air to the jets makes a really big difference in the massage action. No air is a gentler massage, adding air makes it more vigorus.
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Here is an excerpt from my report on my visit to the State Fair of Texas the year before last:
Next up, Sundance. They had a tiny booth with 3 spas. I was looking at the Maxxus when the factory rep approached. He didn't stop talking for the next 15 minutes. It went something like this (abbreviated):
"You're an athlete aren't you? (Pump me up) HotSpring, Jacuzzi, and Sundance are the only ones worth owning. Jacuzzi is a Toyota, SD is a Lexus. Sundance has won John Holcomb Award blah blah blah each of the last 3 years for jets. Lactic acid buildup blah blah, nitrogen in surface of skin blah blah. Do you own guns? (Who, ME? ) Look at the rifling on this jet. HotSpring uses 50% air 50% water mixture, SD uses 70-30% blah blah. HotSpring makes your back feel like you've been laying on hot asphalt. Our filtration blah blah, buy a new filter once a year for $100 blah blah. Blah blah blah!
He was what I would call "polished". WAAAYYYY to technically driven in presentation. See, I like talking about this sort of thing, but he had me wanting to slit my wrists! I guess his approach was to overwhelm me with info and when I was too weak to go on, take my money from me. Thankfully, my cell phone rang and I had to go.
If the ratio of water to air mixture is a big selling point for Sundance, then all of you spa shoppers have my deepest sympathy for having been forced to listen to it. ;D
Terminator
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I don't know about your 1968 date of jacuzzi "inventing" the first portable spa. It very well may be true.
According to Jacuzzis web site history, it says he "invented and marketed the first self-contained, fully integrated whirlpool bath in 1968". A whirlpool bath is NOT a self contained spa, but a jetted bath tub. You'll notice it's not till their bit on the 1970's that they mention adding heating and filtering, with their first "spa" being sold in 1970. Baja still beat them by 6 months.
Lets get our historical information correct. The first portable spa, available in the retail market, was made by Baja. The brand of portable, or self contained, spa, sold under the brand name of Jacuzzi, was 6 months later.
Was not aware of that I am going by whats plastered on the history wall I have from Jacuzzi. All in all while I like the history and its a great story,I dont use it that much in my presentations. Thanks for the history lesson,
I know that a whripool bath is NOT a spa, and if you read what I posted I said Roy Jacuzzi invented the first selfcontained whrilpool BATH not spa.
Either way I am done with this!! ::)
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Jacuzzi was building spas long before Sundance was a wet dream or anyone else for that matter.
I think this was the line that got Doc to respond with a clarification but you can relax, you obviously were trying to give info and weren't trying to put one over on anyone.
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Even at that Term, I have 20 year old Jacuzzi brochures that describe how Jacuzzi mixes the air and water at a 50/50 ratio, so your Sundance "factory rep" translation, road show sales person, is was full of shit, but then you already knew that, didn't you. ;)
Here is an excerpt from my report on my visit to the State Fair of Texas the year before last:
Next up, Sundance. They had a tiny booth with 3 spas. I was looking at the Maxxus when the factory rep approached. He didn't stop talking for the next 15 minutes. It went something like this (abbreviated):
"You're an athlete aren't you? (Pump me up) HotSpring, Jacuzzi, and Sundance are the only ones worth owning. Jacuzzi is a Toyota, SD is a Lexus. Sundance has won John Holcomb Award blah blah blah each of the last 3 years for jets. Lactic acid buildup blah blah, nitrogen in surface of skin blah blah. Do you own guns? (Who, ME? ) Look at the rifling on this jet. HotSpring uses 50% air 50% water mixture, SD uses 70-30% blah blah. HotSpring makes your back feel like you've been laying on hot asphalt. Our filtration blah blah, buy a new filter once a year for $100 blah blah. Blah blah blah!
He was what I would call "polished". WAAAYYYY to technically driven in presentation. See, I like talking about this sort of thing, but he had me wanting to slit my wrists! I guess his approach was to overwhelm me with info and when I was too weak to go on, take my money from me. Thankfully, my cell phone rang and I had to go.
If the ratio of water to air mixture is a big selling point for Sundance, then all of you spa shoppers have my deepest sympathy for having been forced to listen to it. ;D
Terminator
;)