Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: shortspark on December 07, 2006, 09:59:13 pm
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How lucky I am to have found this site! Hi everyone, I'm Shortspark from Texas and have been a dedicated hot tub owner for over 20 years. As an introduction I would like to say that the main reason I decided to register is because one of your long time posters here is right in my back yard - TERMINATOR. I was reading a few threads and was most impressed by this guy's knowledge and posting demeanor. I determined rather quickly he was a Hot Springs dealer and, as luck would have it, was located about 35 miles from me.
Well, I decided to search and read many of his posts (as well as several other "regulars" I identified whose posts impressed me the most). All I can say is you folks really know your stuff here and the flame wars, unlike so many other places I've visited, are almost nonexistent - what a relief!
I certainly don't have the knowledge to contribute a whole lot but I'm sure I'll be asking lots of questions in the weeks to come as I am in the market for a new tub as we speak.
There is one thing I would like to ask for starters. Why does there seem to be such an emphasis on chemicals and water treatment? Well or "iron" water and super sensitive skin notwithstanding, is there really a need in modern spas to monitor the chemicals and balance them to the extent that I've been reading? I ask because in all my 20 years experience I have found that my water is kept clear and clean with nothing more than a few 1" chlorine tabs in a floating dispensor. I almost never check ph anymore, or any other factor for that mater, and I have "shocked" only twice in the last 20 years. When my dispensor is empty, I simply reload and I'm set to go. I do clean the tub, filter and change water regularly but that aside, I do nothing else. From much of what I've been reading on the subject there appears to be an almost driven view that seems to me anyway, leads to overuse of chemicals. This concerns me as I seek a new hot tub as things must have changed in recent years in their sanitation engineering to cause this infactuation with chemicals. To me, the less the better. Could someone shed some light on this?
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Hi and Welcome! I'm a newbie here myself, but have learned quite alot. Nice people here. I am curious to hear responses to your questions. I know 2 people who do just about what you do with your water.....Bromine dispenser and nothing else. One guy hasn't changed his water in over a year.....what gives?
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....Why does there seem to be such an emphasis on chemicals and water treatment? ..... Could someone shed some light on this?
Welcome shortspark,
As you are a 20-year veteran of hot tubbing, I am quite sure that you will be teaching all of us a thing or two.
I do believe that there is a tendency for folks nowadays to be overly analytical/anal/fearful about keeping their water safe and clean. That aside, I believe that bather load has a lot to do with it. If a single bather soaks a few times a week, with a constant supply of chlorine, I'm sure his/her water will stay beutifully clear.
May I inquire as to whether or not you've had a tub full of teenage girls with long hair and laundered bathing suites anytime recently? ;D All the hair products and soap can sure play havoc with that crystal clear H2O.
Also, today most folks using cholorine use Sodium Dichloride in granular form, which needs to be dispensed manually. Is your chlorine made for swimming pools perhaps? Can you shed some light on what the chemical formula of your chorine tabs is and what your average free chlorine level is? What is your average bather load and how often do you dump your water? (There's that old analytical BS rearing its ugly head again). :o
It's a bit shocking that you don't shock, so I suspect that your chlorine levels would be a bit high and your bather load lower than most. To put it simply, chloramines (the smelly useless-for-sanitizing form of chlorine) as well as total desolved solids (caused by heavy bather load) is the reason why people shock on a regular basis.
I believe that most folks who use dichlor want their free chlorine levels quite low right before they soak.
I think it is good that you bring a mature and relaxed attitude to this board. If you've been enjoying your tubbing for 20 years, you must be doing something right!
Cheers,
G
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Shortspark, welcome to the forum.
Did you mean to say you use a bromine floater? I ask b/c chlorine tablets(trichlor) are used for pools. Does your water have a strong chlorine smell to it? I ask this b/c if you don't shock your tub with some sort of oxidizer(i.e.-mps or a adeqate amount of dichlor) to rid the chloraminates(or CC) you will have this problem among others.
What kind of tub do you have?
Thanks,
Tileman
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actually tileman, you are wrong. You can get trichlor small tabs for dispenser for hot tubs. Most companies dont recommend them but they do exist and many canadian tubs, allow the use of them.
I too agree with you method of less is better. My water is maitenance free. I shock from time to time, however, I always ensure the pucks are full. I do have to add ph up, but other than that, I dont do much more.
No issues ever with my water.
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actually tileman, you are wrong. You can get trichlor small tabs for dispenser for hot tubs. Most companies dont recommend them but they do exist and many canadian tubs, allow the use of them.
Actually Bosco, I am right. I never said you couldn't put them in your tub, if that's what you want to do then go ahead. I'm just letting you guys know that it isn't a good thing to do. Btw, don't you use bromine anyways? :)
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Actually Bosco, I am right. I never said you couldn't put them in your tub
no you didnt say that, you said that they are for pools.
Did you mean to say you use a bromine floater? I ask b/c chlorine tablets(trichlor) are used for pools.
You say chlorine tabs are used for pools. They can also be used for hot tubs. Some chemical companies do sell chlorine tabs for hot tub (trichlor) thats why I said you were wrong.
And yes I do use bromine, but my local dealer also sells trichlor pucks. That is what I was getting at. Some manufacturers say not to use them, while others say that it is ok.
I know arctic products are repackaged spa boss chemicals, so I know it is being made for tubs as well. Maybe not the best granted but still available.
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As I was getting out of my tub last night, forcing my naked self out into 27 degrees with 30 mph winds, I was really glad I had a bromine floater keeping my water sanitized. Needless to say I closed the cover as fast as I could and hightailed it into the house ;)
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I ran from the tub once, ONCE ONCE ONCE last year and slipped on a patch of ice and bruised my tail bone. That was the last time I ran to the house, now I just suck up the cold because I think of the discomfort I was in for a few weeks.
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Thanks for the welcome folks. I'll try to answer some of the questions raised. I agree 100% that the main factor for exact chemical use and balance is directly related to one main factor - useage. As PotomacG surmised, my hot tub is used in a way that may be rather unique, ei, I am the only user (one other person has been in the tub during the past 2 years and that was only once) and I am in it about 20 minutes four or five days a week. If I had a bunch of teenage girls (as in Potomac's example) in and out of the tub all the time I am sure things would be much different.
The dispenser I use is a floater with set tabs to release the chlorine in the amount desired. Although I do not believe the release can be monitored precisely this way, I usually open it fully for the first day or so and then close it almost all the way from that point on until the tabs are disolved. Yes, the mini-pucks are plain old tricholor - never cared for bromine as the only benefit I found was in longevity. And Tileman, I do not experience the strong order you mentioned. Basically, I determine if my "balance" is correct by looking at clarity, scum and smell as well as scale on components. I seldom test the water in any other manner. Sometimes I can feel a change in water chemistry by how "soft" or "hard" the water is around me. I know then I have to balance the Ph but this is really rare. I bet it has been over a year since I dipped a strip in the water.
The tub I have is an older Morgan Bahama, 470 gal (or there abouts) eight footer. I clean and change the filter monthly, drain water and clean the tub out quarterly and that is about it. I always drain via an external electrical pump as I think it is easier on the spa, much faster and I get virtually all the water out save for about a half inch in the well. I have the receipt in front of me and I bought this tub in March 1987. It has survived a couple moves and the only problems in all this time was a recalibration of the thermostate, a temp sensor, a new motor and heater element. A couple jets do not work properly but that never concerned me too much. That ain't too bad in 20 years!
Back then when I bought the tub and was a younger man I had other things on my mind. Now, theraputic factors (especially after playing golf) are my primary concern. Also, as I would assume is the case with most people who buy second tubs, I am looking to downsize. I know enough that all the bells and whistles are just things to go wrong and my main objective as I shop is comfortable seating, reputation of dealer and company and just the subjective factor of how the tub fits to me, not how I have to fit to it. Although building a hot tub is not rocket science, I will be going into Terminator's showroom next week to wet test the Hot Springs line and I'm sure I will be most surprised at the advances during the past 20 years.
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shortspark, how old is your current tub? Whooops just read your post, must have been typing at the same time. Whatever you are doing it must be right cause that tub is old baby and it has treated you well. Keep it up man.
Bosco don't you know that Tileman is always right, just ask him.
Ray
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....I will be going into Terminator's showroom next week to wet test the Hot Springs line and I'm sure I will be most surprised at the advances during the past 20 years.
Bravo shortspark. From reading his posts, I'm sure that Term will treat you well. I wish his dealership was a few thousand miles east :-?
Best of luck finding your new tub.
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[size=14]Welcome to a fellow Texan Tubber![/size]
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(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/Hot%20Tub/Hooters066.jpg)
(http://www.walktx.org/TrottingTexasTurtles/flag.gif)
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As I was getting out of my tub last night, forcing my naked self out into 27 degrees with 30 mph winds, I was really glad I had a bromine floater keeping my water sanitized. Needless to say I closed the cover as fast as I could and hightailed it into the house ;)
You must be having a heat wave!! I wish it was 27 last night while I froze my behind off ;D Wind is our worst enemy when it comes to outdoor tubbin'
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Shortspark, welcome to the forum.
Did you mean to say you use a bromine floater? I ask b/c chlorine tablets(trichlor) are used for pools. Does your water have a strong chlorine smell to it? I ask this b/c if you don't shock your tub with some sort of oxidizer(i.e.-mps or a adeqate amount of dichlor) to rid the chloraminates(or CC) you will have this problem among others.
What kind of tub do you have?
Thanks,
Tileman
It cracks me up that the guy with a whole 5 1/2 (or maybe 6 now!!!) weeks of tub ownership has the audacity to act like an expert. But as Rayman said, Tileman is always right, cuz he says so!
Glad you joined us, Shortspark!
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You must be having a heat wave!! I wish it was 27 last night while I froze my behind off ;D Wind is our worst enemy when it comes to outdoor tubbin'
Yea...I guess compared to you, I live in the tropics :) Are you on the upper or lower penninsula? (How close you are to the lake must also be a factor).
You are so right about the wind. It was painful at times.
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I know arctic products are repackaged spa boss chemicals
LOL That gives me a picture of us ripping off a SB label and gluing on an Arctic Pure label. :D
But yup, Arctic Pure water care products are specifically packaged for us by the same company (Capo Industries http://www.capoindustries.com/) that packages SpaBoss.
Tom
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Bosco don't you know that Tileman is always right, just ask him.
Not you too. ;D ;D ;D You guys should start a hate on Chad club. I'd even think about stopping by for a picture signing, if the price is right.
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Actually Bosco, I am right. I never said you couldn't put them in your tub
no you didnt say that, you said that they are for pools.
Did you mean to say you use a bromine floater? I ask b/c chlorine tablets(trichlor) are used for pools.
You say chlorine tabs are used for pools. They can also be used for hot tubs. Some chemical companies do sell chlorine tabs for hot tub (trichlor) thats why I said you were wrong.
And yes I do use bromine, but my local dealer also sells trichlor pucks. That is what I was getting at. Some manufacturers say not to use them, while others say that it is ok.
I know arctic products are repackaged spa boss chemicals, so I know it is being made for tubs as well. Maybe not the best granted but still available.
Bosco, please read more carefully before accusing. Tell me where the false info is given in this statement- Chlorine tablets are used for pools.
If I would have said they are used STRICTLY in pools and cannot be added to spas you'd have an argument but I didn't.
Do you always do what someone tells you or do you research first and do what's best. I tend to do the latter. So if that makes me a bad person for suggesting the best to someone, I APOLOGIZE. :-[
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It cracks me up that the guy with a whole 5 1/2 (or maybe 6 now!!!) weeks of tub ownership has the audacity to act like an expert.
If that makes you laugh you must have a very dull sense of humor.
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As an introduction I would like to say that the main reason I decided to register is because one of your long time posters here is right in my back yard - TERMINATOR. I was reading a few threads and was most impressed by this guy's knowledge and posting demeanor.
Term,
Its really you, isn't it, or your Mom, come on admit it ;D ;D
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Term,
Its really you, isn't it, or your Mom, come on admit it ;D ;D
Actually, Mr. Spark (or Sparky as he likes to be called) gave me a call yesterday, asked if I "went by the name of Terminator", and when I replied in the affirmative, he informed me that he had been reading my posts on this forum. I have to admit that I was flattered and very appreciative of the kind words he had for me. I have had several people contact me via phone or pm since I joined this forum, but Sparky is the first one who actually lives in my neck of the woods (with the exception of T6Texan, who is one of my customers, and good ol' JMcD, who visits at Christmastime and brings Yorkshire pudding).
He's coming in for a test soak next Wednesday before we open. If he wasn't trying out a little ol' bitty Jetsetter, I'd probably hop in with him, but I'd rather keep my Man Card in good standing, so he's on his own.
Terminator
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Term
I was just poking fun, I have read about the way you treat your customers and if I lived in your neck of the woods I would also purchase from your store. We did look at a HS/Caldera when we were shopping and I agree they make a good tub we just had some questions about the dealer not the product. The dealer we purchased our tub operates much the same way as you do and in the end that was the deciding factor. When you get right down to it there really isn't much difference between quality tubs. I mean the componants are pretty much the same one to the next. I really believe that its the dealer that makes the difference
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Term, He could wet test my Jetsetter ;).....otherwise, could you find out how old he is and if he's single....while still keeping your "man card"? ;D ok ok ok....Just thought I'd ask....
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Definitely the dealer/product rep. I'll pay more for a similar product if I feel the profit will go to someone more 'worthy' of it (in my twisted little mind, anyhow). That's how we wound up with an $8k tub instead of a $6k tub.
Now, then.....this isn't a thread about Tileman and if you like/hate/agree/disagree with him....this is about a gent that's ISO a high quality smaller tub. Let him have the floor, please. (Look, ma, I'm mellowing in my old age! :D )
Shortspark, best of luck to you, I hope you find exactly what you're looking for!
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It cracks me up that the guy with a whole 5 1/2 (or maybe 6 now!!!) weeks of tub ownership has the audacity to act like an expert.
If that makes you laugh you must have a very dull sense of humor.
Your point, other than to be nasty?
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Oh boy! Now things are getting fun!! I knew I was joining a good group from the start. I am very flattered, MostlyLurkingGal, that you would offer a wet test in your tub (and also that you thought enough of me to make me your 100th post - a milestone!!).
But now I see yet another, this one a senior member who I take it has been around quite a while. Tell me dear Tatooed_Lady, just where exactly is your tatoo? Depending on its location (that tells me a LOT you know), we might be able to get something going for sure.
Hey Terminator, what are the chances of getting these two to wet test with me next week? Are they close by? If they are within two hundred miles of us I'll go pick them up. Oh gosh! Now I'm revertering to my old ways and the reason I bought a hot tub 20 years ago in the first place! Oh well. And don't forget, if you get a Prodigy off the truck in the next few days I want to check that one out too but the wet test with these two gals MUST be in the Jetsetter!
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Well that was certainly one of the most polite put offs I have ever had...Thanks....I'll let you know if I ever get a tatoo............. ::)
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Well that was certainly one of the most polite put offs I have ever had...Thanks....I'll let you know if I ever get a tatoo............. ::)
No, no sweetheart, you were not put off at all. Don't you see, I want you both! Don't you think it would be a ball? You know, the three of us (maybe we can get Term in there somehow too but on second thought, nah, I don't like to share). Whatcha got to loose?
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tileman, I really like you, I think you add a good mix to this forum. I was really impressed with you and feel that you have been great.
Since that, Am I weard post, you have become a tad bit different. Maybe the true you has come out, I dont know. What I do know is that I am tired of you posting and getting angry at everyone. You have picked a beef with almost everyone here over the past few weeks.
Can you let it go, and just go back to the way you were when you started posting. I really think arguing about the way you said something is not worth it. I read your post over several times, and I cant assume what you are thinking when you type, so I read the post for what it was. You said trichlor is for pools and thats it. So that why I questioned you. Not a personal attack.
I just cant understand why you suddenly feel the need to anger everyone here. If this is the case, perhaps it is time for you to move on to another forum.
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tileman, I really like you, I think you add a good mix to this forum. I was really impressed with you and feel that you have been great.
Since that, Am I weard post, you have become a tad bit different. Maybe the true you has come out, I dont know. What I do know is that I am tired of you posting and getting angry at everyone. You have picked a beef with almost everyone here over the past few weeks.
Can you let it go, and just go back to the way you were when you started posting. I really think arguing about the way you said something is not worth it. I read your post over several times, and I cant assume what you are thinking when you type, so I read the post for what it was. You said trichlor is for pools and thats it. So that why I questioned you. Not a personal attack.
I just cant understand why you suddenly feel the need to anger everyone here. If this is the case, perhaps it is time for you to move on to another forum.
I agree that I liked the old you better.....can he come back out to play?
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Oh boy! Now things are getting fun!! I knew I was joining a good group from the start. I am very flattered, MostlyLurkingGal, that you would offer a wet test in your tub (and also that you thought enough of me to make me your 100th post - a milestone!!).
But now I see yet another, this one a senior member who I take it has been around quite a while. Tell me dear Tatooed_Lady, just where exactly is your tatoo? Depending on its location (that tells me a LOT you know), we might be able to get something going for sure.
Hey Terminator, what are the chances of getting these two to wet test with me next week? Are they close by? If they are within two hundred miles of us I'll go pick them up. Oh gosh! Now I'm revertering to my old ways and the reason I bought a hot tub 20 years ago in the first place! Oh well. And don't forget, if you get a Prodigy off the truck in the next few days I want to check that one out too but the wet test with these two gals MUST be in the Jetsetter!
:o Gee golly willikers! I haven't been around that long (since Feb or so?) I've simply asked my share (and the shares of many others) of questions. ;) My tattoos? Hmm...if I told you, I'd have to kill you. My husband says I can. :D Actually, they're all in "decent" areas...shoulders and shoulderblade, nothing "naughty", sorry. I live in Wisconsin, land of cowpies and...umm...beer. And I don't know if my hubby would want to travel to assist in checking out tubs. I had to drag him 10 miles away to look at ours...but I know he wouldn't let me go unsupervised, so you'd best find a tub with a LOT of leg room...he's 6'3. :D ;)
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Oh boy! Now things are getting fun!! I knew I was joining a good group from the start. I am very flattered, MostlyLurkingGal, that you would offer a wet test in your tub (and also that you thought enough of me to make me your 100th post - a milestone!!).
But now I see yet another, this one a senior member who I take it has been around quite a while. Tell me dear Tatooed_Lady, just where exactly is your tatoo? Depending on its location (that tells me a LOT you know), we might be able to get something going for sure.
Hey Terminator, what are the chances of getting these two to wet test with me next week? Are they close by? If they are within two hundred miles of us I'll go pick them up. Oh gosh! Now I'm revertering to my old ways and the reason I bought a hot tub 20 years ago in the first place! Oh well. And don't forget, if you get a Prodigy off the truck in the next few days I want to check that one out too but the wet test with these two gals MUST be in the Jetsetter!
:o Gee golly willikers! I haven't been around that long (since Feb or so?) I've simply asked my share (and the shares of many others) of questions. ;) My tattoos? Hmm...if I told you, I'd have to kill you. My husband says I can. :D Actually, they're all in "decent" areas...shoulders and shoulderblade, nothing "naughty", sorry. I live in Wisconsin, land of cowpies and...umm...beer. And I don't know if my hubby would want to travel to assist in checking out tubs. I had to drag him 10 miles away to look at ours...but I know he wouldn't let me go unsupervised, so you'd best find a tub with a LOT of leg room...he's 6'3. :D ;)
Auh shucks!!
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Term, He could wet test my Jetsetter ;).....otherwise, could you find out how old he is and if he's single....while still keeping your "man card"? ;D ok ok ok....Just thought I'd ask....
Hey Mostly,
I am single, loaded and own an ARCTIC.
Well.... I do own an Arctic.
Steven
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Term, He could wet test my Jetsetter ;).....otherwise, could you find out how old he is and if he's single....while still keeping your "man card"? ;D ok ok ok....Just thought I'd ask....
Hey Mostly,
I am single, loaded and own an ARCTIC.
Steven
Yea, but do you have 6% body fat? ::) ;D ;)
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ouch!!
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Term, He could wet test my Jetsetter ;).....otherwise, could you find out how old he is and if he's single....while still keeping your "man card"? ;D ok ok ok....Just thought I'd ask....
Hey Mostly,
I am single, loaded and own an ARCTIC.
Well.... I do own an Arctic.
Steven
;D I'm pretty much to the point where the only requirement I have in a man is that he's breathing..............................
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC02697.jpg)
Well, Shortspark showed up today right on time. I supplied him with everything he needed to enjoy a perfect test soak: HotSpring Jetsetter, Aromatherapy, Bottled Water, Shiner Bock Beer, and a Walther 9MM Handgun for raising hell, if need be.
I guess it went well...he is now the proud owner of a 2007 Jetsetter.
We had a lot of fun. He has a beautiful home in a beautiful location and will soon have a beautiful spa to help him enjoy it even more. :)
Terminator
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Only in Texas, that was so funny. I never thought that I would be able to relate a nice soak with guns, but what the hell. lmao ;D
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC02697.jpg)
Well, Shortspark showed up today right on time. I supplied him with everything he needed to enjoy a perfect test soak: HotSpring Jetsetter, Aromatherapy, Bottled Water, Shiner Bock Beer, and a Walther 9MM Handgun for raising hell.
I guess it went well...he is now the proud owner of a 2007 Jetsetter.
We had a lot of fun. He has a beautiful home in a beautiful location and will soon have a beautiful spa to help him enjoy it even more. :)
Terminator
I gotta believe you're the only spa salesman in the world who provides beer and handguns to wet testers!!! That may become the new trend.
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I would've let him use my AR-15, but it's at the gunsmith getting some blingeddy-blingy added to it, so we had to make due with what was on-hand.
Terminator
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Well, Congrats on your new Jetsetter.....I hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine....although I don't see how that's possible! ;)
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Well, Congrats on your new Jetsetter.....I hope you enjoy it as much as I do mine....although I don't see how that's possible! ;)
Thanks Gal, I'm sure I will enjoy it. Terminator is every bit the character in person as he is on the forum! But just like at the forum, he is personable and honest as the day is long - if I'm any judge of character at all. When he talked about all the features it was obvious he knew his business and more importantly, when he told me something I believed it. How could I not buy considering it is such a quality product and from a dealer close by to me that I can trust?
I was very impressed with the Jetsetter. He did not have a Prodigy on hand as that was my second choice but frankly, I did like the Moto-Message DX (which was something I was not too sure about at first). Once I started playing with the DX controls I got the hang of what the Moto-Message could do. After the wet test I thought that I really do need a lounger and DX, which are not on the Prodigy. Since I am the only one using the tub 99% of the time, the Jetsetter will fit my needs very well.
I have had a HUGE Morgan Spa for close to 20 years and the Jetsetter felt tiny to me at first - and of course, in comparison, it is. But the Jetsetter's features and the way my body felt in it were the real selling point. Look, no one can tell over the long haul how comfortable something will be to you and that sure ain't gonna happen in an hour long wet test. I was comfortable and know that when I'm not, there is enough variety that I can make myself comfortable. That is all one can hope for.
Bottom line? It's MINE!
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Shortspark that was an excellent post, the dealer is what it's all about.
Good luck with the new tub and I will be watching with interest to see if your chemical routine changes.
Ray
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Shortspark that was an excellent post, the dealer is what it's all about.
Good luck with the new tub and I will be watching with interest to see if your chemical routine changes.
Ray
I hope the routine does not change, Rayman. For the last 20 years chemical maintenance has been a piece of cake for me and I would like to contiune on that path. I remember years ago when I got my first tub that I found myself checking the water with strips every day, adding this and adding that until I got it right. Most of the time, however, I messed it up worse than when I started.
You have read my other posts re chemicals and the routine I've used and my idea that less is better. When I take delivery I intend to get the water perfect both in terms of balance and how the water feels around my body - I can tell a lot from that alone. Clarity and a visual sense of how the water looks (and smells) are another factors. Then, I will use what has worked for me in the past and see what happens. I am not opposed to adjusting my ways to get it right, I just don't want it to become a chore or obsession.