Hot Tub Forum
General => General info Somewhat hot tub related => Topic started by: anne on July 10, 2007, 01:23:13 am
-
Just a general question for you- I know that there is lots of expertise out there! I will be starting a kitchen remodel soon. Waiting now to get the cabinets done.......waiting....waiting.....waiting....
Anyway, one of the fun details to me of this project will be tile backsplashing. The counters will be solid granite, but I'm designing an 18" backsplash. I'm contracting out the things that I just cannot do (electrical/plumbing/+/-floors, etc) and my father is helping me with cabinets (building and installing). I'd like to do the tiling myself, not only to save money, but also because I'm the type of person who is a lot more satisfied with my hands dirty and knowing I did something myself. I have family members who have tiled enough to teach me the basics and loan me a wet saw, and I'm fairly handy person.
I have not completely finished the design or chosen tiles, but I'll likely be using tumbled marble with small accent tiles on point, plus or minus a strip of granite from the countertop as accent as well.
So.......are you cringing in horror at the thought of an ameture tiler making a mess of things? It'll be hard to talk me out of this, I admit.
Assuming that I go forward with this, is there anything about handling/cutting marble that should dissuade me from my choice of tiles compared to porcelain or ceramic? I just REALLY prefer the texture and look of the natural stone.
thanks!!!!!
-
oh, and to make this hot tub related, I have found that sitting in the tub staring at the trees has been very therapeutic as I contemplate this project!
-
Not an expert but did do 3 tile jobs as a homeowner. Tile is not too bad to work with.
My only advice is to have your own diamond tipped blade and use a wet saw. If you rent a wet saw - the blade will be dull. I bought mine at Lowes for something like $35
A fresh diamond tipped blade will cut through tile like a hot knife through butter.
-
Thanks, Vinny. I'll probably get to borrow my aunt's saw, so I'll definitely buy a new blade if only to not over-use theirs.
Aside form getting instruction from her, are there any good teaching guides out there? I'm sure that some books are better than others.
-
Everything you need to know about tile and then some can be found at
http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php
-
This may sound corney but I learned most of the info I needed by watching either 'This Old House' and 'Hometime' and by trial and error. Seriously go to your local library and see if you can get the Hometime video to borrow, I think there was one on tiling.
Another plus was I also enjoyed watching Robin Hartl wearing that tool belt ... pretty sexy! ;) ;D
-
Things to consider as far as trim are windows,and return/end wall. Also,you mentioned you might use a strip from the counter,and incorporate it into the backsplash.....be aware of "thickness" of 1 material going against another. I would recommend for the beginner,to have same thickness of material,weather you use 2 different flavors or 10 different flavors of tile/stone. I can give you shortcuts,as far as clipped corners for "dots" along with general layout guidelines,if needed.
If you could draw or provide some print or pattern you want,I might be able to assist more.
Lastly,take your time! Once it's finished,you and others will be living with it daily :)
-
Thanks everyone!
Autoplay, I'll likely take you up on that as I get closer. I'm concerned that my ideas for layout might be a little complex for someone who has never tiles before, but I'll certainly take all the advice I can get. As far as comparing countertop material with the tiles for backsplashing, I can get the granite that will be on the countertop in tile-form as well, in 12x12 tiles, and I planned to have them cut to size. The countertop will be 2mm thick.
I'll look up John Bridge as well.
So.....what if I decided to do the floor tiles myself as well????
-
Just a general question for you- I know that there is lots of expertise out there! I will be starting a kitchen remodel soon. Waiting now to get the cabinets done.......waiting....waiting.....waiting....
Anyway, one of the fun details to me of this project will be tile backsplashing. The counters will be solid granite, but I'm designing an 18" backsplash. I'm contracting out the things that I just cannot do (electrical/plumbing/+/-floors, etc) and my father is helping me with cabinets (building and installing). I'd like to do the tiling myself, not only to save money, but also because I'm the type of person who is a lot more satisfied with my hands dirty and knowing I did something myself. I have family members who have tiled enough to teach me the basics and loan me a wet saw, and I'm fairly handy person.
I have not completely finished the design or chosen tiles, but I'll likely be using tumbled marble with small accent tiles on point, plus or minus a strip of granite from the countertop as accent as well.
So.......are you cringing in horror at the thought of an ameture tiler making a mess of things? It'll be hard to talk me out of this, I admit.
Assuming that I go forward with this, is there anything about handling/cutting marble that should dissuade me from my choice of tiles compared to porcelain or ceramic? I just REALLY prefer the texture and look of the natural stone.
thanks!!!!!
Tumbled stone cuts VERY easy. Almost too easy with some pieces, so let the saw blade work the tile not you. Never force it. You'll notice that some pieces are more solid than others. These are the ones that should be used for your more intricate(?) cuts. You'll definetly need to use a good penetrating sealer before and after grouting.
What size tiles are you using and how are you setting them? Straight layed, 45, brick joint, etc..
-
As Chad pointed out,Tumbled stone cuts very easily. As he also said,the pieces that have alot of veining etc,don't use em for cuts as they will fall apart possibly.
Take some before pics,and describe what your plan is. Chad and I can both point you in the right direction.
And yes,you can do the floor tile yourself too ;) Just remember,you have all the time in the world to make it look great....verses a professional,who has to make it look great,and do it in a timely fashion :)
This URL for Chad....it has many useful floor layouts,and even has material figures.
Brick pattern=running bond ;)
http://www.bedrosians.com/tiledes.htm
-
Bedrosians is one of the places that I shopped. Great selection, knowledgeable people, but annoyingly overcrowded, and one has to be a little pushy to get help. But once you do, they are great.
Thank you both......I think I'll get brave and do both tiling jobs! My dad seems to think it is within my abilities, and I'll certainly come back to both of you before I do anything. I hear horror stories about grout cracking and tiles loosening a year later, and I dont know if those were dumb errors made by people who didn't study up enough first, or just risks that an ameture takes.
Is ceramic or porcelain or something else the best to use on a floor? I want to do BIG, smooth tiles to have as few groutlines and crevices for dog hair as possible, but I love the sort of funky, irregular natural look of slate and natural stone. Suggestions?
It'll be a while- likely early September, if I'm lucky.
-
I have confidence you will do just fine! Again,time is your friend :)
Porcelain is very durable,and will last much longer,verses a glazed body tile.
I would stick with tumbled stone for your backsplash,as far as YOU doing stone work.
Stone work on floors isn't for the beginner!
I have porcelain tile in my main livin areas in my house,1/8"-3/16" grout joints,2 dogs,2 cats.....and we have to vacumm on average,twice a week! Tight grout lines won't help in that dept lol.
Have you considered removing your base,prior to the floor install? My opinion,it looks best if tile is under baseboards..Another option too is,tile to existing baseboards,and then put quarter round on baseboards/tile.
Here's the link again to the tile/stone board I frequent........
http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php
It has lots of great mechanics from around the nation/world,who are more than willing to help out the "weekend warrior" crowd.
-
Thanks, Autoplay. So are you suggesting that I do the backsplash, but not the floor?
As far as baseboards, the whole kitchen is getting torn out, my dad and I are making and installing cabinets, and the floor will go up to the toe kicks, likely with trim on top along the toe kicks. I'm contracting out the electrical, plumbing and some of the small structural stuff (moving the ceiling hole for the ventilation hood). He'll do the floor, too, if I chicken out.
-
Thanks, Autoplay. So are you suggesting that I do the backsplash, but not the floor?
As far as baseboards, the whole kitchen is getting torn out, my dad and I are making and installing cabinets, and the floor will go up to the toe kicks, likely with trim on top along the toe kicks. I'm contracting out the electrical, plumbing and some of the small structural stuff (moving the ceiling hole for the ventilation hood). He'll do the floor, too, if I chicken out.
Anne, you'll want to install the flooring before the cabinetry. This will provide a more finished look, easier installation/layout(especially if you have an island), and you won't lose that inch of height from floor to top of base cabinets. Most importantly though, it will keep those beautiful hand crafted cabinets out of harms way during the tile install.
Tiling a floor is a whole different ballgame than a backsplash but with some of the things that I've seen and read you complete, I truly beleive if you do your homework you'll be able to do it. Plus you know two proffessionals that can help along the way if you run into any problems. :)
Cheers,
Chad
-
Ya know Anne, I bet that if you promised to work bare-footed you could get Chad to come out there and help you...... ;)
-
Thanks, Autoplay. So are you suggesting that I do the backsplash, but not the floor?
As far as baseboards, the whole kitchen is getting torn out, my dad and I are making and installing cabinets, and the floor will go up to the toe kicks, likely with trim on top along the toe kicks. I'm contracting out the electrical, plumbing and some of the small structural stuff (moving the ceiling hole for the ventilation hood). He'll do the floor, too, if I chicken out.
Not in the least! I was only saying,if you plan on doing "stone floors",I would suggest hiring someone to do them,or,you yoursef do the floors with tile. Doing stone,has tolerances,that in my opinion,are beyond the DIYer crowd. Not saying that it can't be done etc....but there are elevation issues,plane issues,and level issues,that are beyond the beginners grasp.
As chad suggested,the overall look would be better,as far as cabinets sitting on top of tile/stone. 1 thing to consider if doing it that route is,the cabinets need to be level,so in that regards,it helps to have a level floor. If floor is a tad out of level,you could still tile the floor,and level up the cabinets with shims,and when it's all said and done,put a laminate that matches the cabinet toekicks......and taper cut it to fit the floor. VERY IMPORTANT that cabinets are level,as your countertop goes directly on top of cabinets.
Upper cabinets go in prior to tile/stone backsplash,and you cut your tile/stone around them. If you have window/s,you will have to consider a trim for them. If using tumbled marble etc on backsplash,I can show you several methods of doing the trim,without purchasing trim/bullnose. If doing tile backsplash,you will need corrasponding tile bullnose,either surface or radius I.E. mudcap.
If going to all the work you describe,I would use new baseboards,and install them after you tile,and cabinet work complete. Over-all,it's a nicer finish,and the cost is relatively cheap.
Sign up a user name on this site,and let em know I pointed you over there lol....they will help you to no end :)
http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php
-
Ya know Anne, I bet that if you promised to work bare-footed you could get Chad to come out there and help you...... ;)
You got that right!
-
Hey Anne, we recently put this up on a backspash. It looked very cool and was a breeze to install. It's tumbled stone that comes in 1' x 1' sheets. Just thought you might be interested. :)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r165/tileman_photos/tumblednaturalstone_champagnegoldsp.jpg)
-
Thank you all! MLG, you have a great idea there. Heck, depending on how much help was offered, I'd get a pedicure, and take more than my shoes off......though sometimes mystery is really better than reality.
I have heard so many different opinions on tile first vs cabinets first.....I spend a LOT of time these days on remodeling forums.....very confusing.
Lots to think about, but it is exciting! Thanks for the votes of confidence......
-
Thank you all! MLG, you have a great idea there. Heck, depending on how much help was offered, I'd get a pedicure, and take more than my shoes off......though sometimes mystery is really better than reality.
I have heard so many different opinions on tile first vs cabinets first.....I spend a LOT of time these days on remodeling forums.....very confusing.
Lots to think about, but it is exciting! Thanks for the votes of confidence......
Anne, I'm curious what the proponents of installing the cabinets first have to say.
-
Chad, maybe it is a regional thing, but it seems like tiling UP TO cabinets is as common (or more common) around here as tiling under them. Reasons......less cost (less product?); easier to level cabinets, maybe faster return to a functional kitchen?
-
Chad, maybe it is a regional thing, but it seems like tiling UP TO cabinets is as common (or more common) around here as tiling under them. Reasons......less cost (less product?); easier to level cabinets, maybe faster return to a functional kitchen?
"less cost" - it would cost more do to the added amount of labor involvved.
''less product" - You might save 20 - 30 sq ft in materials(depending on size of kitchen) but like I stated above, it takes longer to cut around all that stuff and not to mention the hassle down the road when you or the next homeowner want to add/change something in the kitchen and you have to track down the tile to fill in the spots that are now exposed. Then you have to tear out any pieces that are not full that were buttin against something, so you can add on to it w/o it lookin like doodoo.
"easier to level cabinets" - makes absolutely no difference to a well trained carpenter
I know many.
"faster return to a functional kitchen" - incorrect, for the reasons above
I've been on many remodels/additions and have had to fix so many other installers work b/c they didn't fill everything in and/or didn't leave the homeowner any extra tile. Now it's my job to track this 10 year old tile down and tear all the "cut" pieces that are now going to be added on to. It's a big mess and for what a couple hundred bucks? It's just not worth it.
-
I see what you are saying, Chad, but I'd see myself replacing the floor before I changed the cabinets, so if the tile goes under the cabinets, then what? Not arguing, just not sure what to do. My dad and I are building and installing the cabinets, so I'm not worried about lack of workmanship in this case (he's a perfectionist) but I listed cabinet leveling/installing as a general concern. *My* concern is that I could see myself in a few years wanting to change all my wall to wall carpet with something else, so what if I also wanted to change the kitchen floor at that time?
-
Anne if you think there's even a slight chance down the road you'll want to tear out your kitchen floor again, I would strongly recommend NOT to put tile/stone down during this current remodel. Tile/stone installations are meant to be a permanent floor and can be if installed correctly. It's hands down the hardest flooring to tear out, so you might want to put something else down like vinyl. It looks good for 5 - 10 years, easy to install, and easy to replace. I can't believe I actually recommended vinyl to someone. I think I'm gonna be sick...... :-[
Just something to think about,
Chad
-
Thanks Chad. I am seriously considering linoleum for that reason, and for the seamlessness of it that makes clean up easier with a houseful of hairy animals. Decisions, decisions........I predict within 5 years wanting to tear out the wall to wall carpet, and I cant claim to predict what that would mean for the kitchen floor.
.......but tile is so much classier! Its killing me......