Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: brentp on November 13, 2006, 12:51:56 pm
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Hi,
My wife and I have been searching for a new Hot Tub for a few weeks now to replace our 14 year old SPA. We are looking for a unit for just the 2 of us, and are limited in space to no more than 7' x 7'. We have dry tested a lot of SPAs. Anyway, this past weekend we stopped by the local LA Spas dealer and tested the Allure III. We really liked it, liked the dealer, and were very close to making a move on this, but felt a bit more research was in order. So, a few questions came up, so thought I'd asked the experts here.
1) Where does LA SPA fit in the brand curve (eg; top 10, bottom 10, . . . in the middle)?
2) What is the 'average retail' for a fully jetted dual pump Allure III? (one thing I HATE about spa shopping is the lack of any MSRP data on any of these SPAs - you are really left to the wolves if you don't do your homework).
3) After looking at LA SPAs, . . . I just happen to look through the Artesian Island series brochure, . . . and to my surprise, almost all of the Island Series are configured similar to the LA SPAs' line up. What gives? Whom copied whom? Are they 'equals', or is one superior to the other?
4) Anyone hear of or use Nature's Way enzyme Clear Choice product (natureswayspa.com or clearchoiceeast.com)? This dealer is affiliated somehow, but does highly recommends, has lots of customers on this system and swears by it.
Our top picks so far w/comments:
LA SPAs Allure III – need to know quality info and relative pricing
Sundance Capri – Nice unit, local dealer’s a jerk (to put it nicely)
Caldera Martinique – Lounger a bit tight, but workable
Rejected:
Hot Springs Jetsetter – like Moto, but too small. Non-Moto seats weakly jetted.
D1 Triad – Lounger too tight for me
Vita Joli - Nice layout, but quality was suspect
Marquis - none really stuck out a possibilities
Other whose names escape me (lower end units)
Still to look at;
Arctic Fox
Artesian Island Series Santa Cruz
Any others we should be considering?
Thanks in advance, . . . we also looked at a 3 yr old used Artesian Opal this weekend, . . . unfortunately, that is not going to work out (unit was not functioning properly), . . . so we are back to looking at new units and trying to close in this soon.
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brentp
I'm not real familar with LA spas so I won't say much other than I think they are a middle of the pack spa from what I've heard.
Another spa you may want to check out is the Bullfrog 451 it falls in line with the Caldera Martinique and the Sundance Capri. Its also less $$$ :)
Good luck with your search
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Sounds like you already have done a fair amount of research! From my reading here and my own shopping research, I'd agree that LA spas is in the middle of the pack. I liked them when I wet tested, but the seats were almost too tall/big for me. There are some happy LA owners here somewhere.
As an Arctic owner, I'd certainly encourage you to wet test the Arctic Fox, but it sounds like a lot of the tubs that you rejected already were not comfortable because of tight fit. Arctics tend to be pretty moulded, and being pretty small framed, I like that. Many people dont. The Cub looks more comfortable to me than the Fox, but I have not tried either one.
Good luck!
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The person who designed the Island series came from LA, that's the reason for the look alike. Artesian makes a good tub and I'm sure LA does too.
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http://www.hotdirecttubs.com/spashome.html ok I am no dealer, just look my self and after a long three month search, called hawkeye spa, looking at a barefoot spa for just me and the wife. this seem to fit our needs, I am looking at the body lounge 57 BL, seem to be hard to find a small spa. and can cost as much as a six seater. even though this is less than I was quoted today at factory me picking it up,, I will call again tomorrow to see what is the difference. click on the factory on that directtub site it will take you to the barefoot 57 Bl 5 yr warrenty is what my local deal said on part and labor. I know more on this later will keep you posted if you like....I called artesian and dealer in my area close fo winter, that was a choice I'd like to see. other spas looked good on photo just to small dry test, not deep enought either,,, good luck
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Hi Brentp,
I was in your shoes about 2-3 weeks ago. I did a lot of research, including this forum, wet tested many tubs (most important!) and ended up with the Allure III tub. My wife and I liked the size, and I especially liked the power of the jets--the 2 seats have the most power and help for my ailing back. It holds temperature very well even in cold air, and I am in it every day! I was a little disapointed with the large foot jet on the lounger, but the 2 foot jets when sitting in the seat are plenty powerful. I was also disapointed that there was not an ozonater that came standard, but so far I have not needed one--We use the spa frog with the bromine and mineral cartridge. By the way, one of the forum members told me that LA had the design on the Allure III first, and Artesian copied the design from LA. I don't know if it's true or not, but I do know I like my tub, and feel like it was the right tub for me and my small family. Feel free to reply to me if you have any questions I didn't address in this post.
geenosr
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Hi Brentp,
I was in your shoes about 2-3 weeks ago. I did a lot of research, including this forum, wet tested many tubs (most important!) and ended up with the Allure III tub.
geenosr
Would you mind if I asked how much you paid for your Allure III and the pump/jet configuration that you got. For the record, I was quoted $6950. for the 2 pump, 37 jet (50 port) version. This price was the same for the floor model or if we ordered. If we do decide on the floor model, the dealer with add in some extras like steps, cover lifter, and an extra filter set. Just trying to determine if there is still negotiation room or if this was his best deal (he is not a main street dealer and his business model is one as a discounter and it is ‘worth the trip’). ;)
Thanks for the info on how you like the tub. For our dry test, it was one of the best fitting small SPAs we tested. We have not wet tested yet, . . . so it will be interesting to see how the lounger foot jet works (I assume you have the 14 water port version in the foot well of the lounger?).
Also, I'm a bit surprised the ozonator wasn’t included. The LA SPA 'ozone mixing chamber' was a big selling point for the dealer we talked to, . . . he even had a self made ozonator demo in the office to show the difference between a standard injection ozone system, the D1 canister system, and the LA SPA mixing chamber system. I just assumed these were standard on every LA SPA, . . . but will go back and verify that we would get this with the quoted price.
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Ok, . . . thought I'd give an update. Thanks for the feedback on LA SPAs. After getting a quote on the Santa Cruz for under $5.5K with the extras, the price I was quoted for the LA SPA, and a number of comments that indicate LA SPA is a middle of the road type SPA company, . . . we’ll not go there. If it came down to it, the Artesian Santa Cruz would be the winner between the two.
So, we are now here, . . .
1) Arctic Fox - List ~$11K - is it worth this premium price, even if we can knock a couple of grand off of this? I really, really liked this tub, but at that price point, we will have to pass.
2) Artesian Antigua list ~ $?
3) Sundance Capri List ~ $7.5K
4) Caldera Martinique - on sale @ $6.5K
Our dilemma:
The local Artesian dealer no longer stocks Artesian SPAs, he is pushing Vita and the Reflection lines really hard. We could order an Artesian, but can't even dry test it. Not good, . . . but we like the layout, price point, and company reputation. We are highly leaning here, . . . but may have to drive 100s of miles round trip to dry/wet test a unit. After comparing the Santa Cruz and Antigua, we have settled on the bigger unit. Thought is it fits our deck, . . .and likely isn’t too much more.
Does anyone know what the Antigua with 52 jets/2 pumps or 43 jets/2 pumps really should go for roughly? I found an post from this spring where a new store had the 40+jet/2pump version with no extras at $5K. Even if it is a grand more, . . . this might be the winner!
The other 2 are in reserve, . . . not going to proceed any further unless we need to.
Running out of time, . . . need to get this in real soon before winter starts :)
Thanks again!
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I'd be glad to help brent. Which version of the Fox are you looking at? And which options is the dealer quoting?
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I'd be glad to help brent. Which version of the Fox are you looking at? And which options is the dealer quoting?
Fox Ultra ($9800.) and Fox Signature ($9000.). Add to this the Peak Ozone ($1500) and Northern Lights ($400). Microban was not discussed, and I did not get the price for the standard AS ozone.
Dealer was clear that these were their list prices and would be able to do much better after I discussed more with my wife if we were still interested. When I asked how much better, the comment was that the options pretty much become 'free'. Hence, my thought that it could be about $2K from the total I got.
Thanks!
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Ok, . . . thought I'd give an update. Thanks for the feedback on LA SPAs. After getting a quote on the Santa Cruz for under $5.5K with the extras, the price I was quoted for the LA SPA, and a number of comments that indicate LA SPA is a middle of the road type SPA company, . . . we’ll not go there. If it came down to it, the Artesian Santa Cruz would be the winner between the two.
So, we are now here, . . .
1) Arctic Fox - List ~$11K - is it worth this premium price, even if we can knock a couple of grand off of this? I really, really liked this tub, but at that price point, we will have to pass.
2) Artesian Antigua list ~ $?
3) Sundance Capri List ~ $7.5K
4) Caldera Martinique - on sale @ $6.5K
Our dilemma:
The local Artesian dealer no longer stocks Artesian SPAs, he is pushing Vita and the Reflection lines really hard. We could order an Artesian, but can't even dry test it. Not good, . . . but we like the layout, price point, and company reputation. We are highly leaning here, . . . but may have to drive 100s of miles round trip to dry/wet test a unit. After comparing the Santa Cruz and Antigua, we have settled on the bigger unit. Thought is it fits our deck, . . .and likely isn’t too much more.
Does anyone know what the Antigua with 52 jets/2 pumps or 43 jets/2 pumps really should go for roughly? I found an post from this spring where a new store had the 40+jet/2pump version with no extras at $5K. Even if it is a grand more, . . . this might be the winner!
The other 2 are in reserve, . . . not going to proceed any further unless we need to.
Running out of time, . . . need to get this in real soon before winter starts :)
Thanks again!
A 52 jet antiqua has 3 pumps not 2. 2 6hp and 1 3hp which runs the foot jets basically a ton of power should run in the mid sevens low 8s maybe higher as we havent sold them for awhile, alot depends on if you want synthetic siding circ pump and s/steel jets bells and whistles. If it were me I would price out the 43 jet model with circ pump and synthetic siding leave out the s/s jets its looks only. The only thing that conerns me is them dropping Artesian which we did also but we will continue to carry parts and service of course. The other thing I never liked about the Island series is a 3 year warrantee for the price those tubs warrant it should be 5 years like the gold and platinum class. My 2 cents worth. Jim
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My thoughts are that you should try and negotiate at about $7k for the Ultra and $6400 for the Signature. Then add in your options. I would recommend the Peak Ozone, since the only things I have done for the first 10 days of ownership is to add a cap of Refresh per soaker per use and then a half ounce of chlorine every 3 days. I realize the water is new but it is crystal clear and NO chlorine smell as the ozone system seems to really do it's job. I would also recommend and go with the Ultra if you decide on the Arctic. You get 14 more water jets, an extra pump, therapy air (a blower), aromatherapy for a few hundred bucks more. I think all of their shells are Microban by the way. Good luck!
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My thoughts are that you should try and negotiate at about $7k for the Ultra and $6400 for the Signature. Then add in your options. I would recommend the Peak Ozone, since the only things I have done for the first 10 days of ownership is to add a cap of Refresh per soaker per use and then a half ounce of chlorine every 3 days. I realize the water is new but it is crystal clear and NO chlorine smell as the ozone system seems to really do it's job. I would also recommend and go with the Ultra if you decide on the Arctic. You get 14 more water jets, an extra pump, therapy air (a blower), aromatherapy for a few hundred bucks more. I think all of their shells are Microban by the way. Good luck!
Thanks. I just want to make sure I understnd the difference between the Ultra and Signature. As I read the spec, you get added 14 air jets, the air pump (called the 3rd motor), and the aromatherapy. Did I miss read the spec?
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Sorry my bad! You are correct, with the Ultra you get the 14 air injectors and the air blower to propel the injectors, and the aromatherapy. On either the Ultra or the Signature, you get 2 water pumps which is more than sufficient for a spa of that size. Now that I realized I erred, you may want to pocket the change and go without the air therapy if it's not a hot button for you. We like power so we like the water jets. I plan on using the air injectors primarily in late spring and summer to cool down the water as best as possible. Wet test to decide for yourself.
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Thanks for the confirmation. That is what we were thinking too, . . . pass on the air, although the aromatherapy is nice, but the pour in bottles would work for that. The only thing I used air for in our old SPA was to cool it down quickly if I let it get too hot. :)
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Good thinking. You and I are on the exact same page! Good luck.
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my 2 cents........
I love my LA spa!!! We shopped Sundance, Cal Spa, and some others, but LA Spa won. We had one of the corner jets changed to shoulder jets for an extra $90.oo. It is well worth it. The jets hit so hard, I have to turn them down, but hey better to do that than not have enough pressure, right?
Our La Spa dealer is very close. I think that is important. The dealership and salesperson was terrific. We are really happy with the fact that it heats up and doesn't drop in temp while we are soaking, and we stay in for 45 minutes to an hour each soak.
We bought the textured tub, because they don't scratch as easily, something to consider.
Depending on what you want on the tub... pricing changes greatly with all the goodies added. We didn't get anything extra in the way of music, lights, and such, and we like it that way. But, to each his own!
Be sure to wet test... the seats of the LA Spa are ergonomically designed to help hold you in the seats. In other spas, my petited body was flushed to the surface.
It wasn't relaxing at all to "hang on". The lounger is awesome, but then not all people like their loungers. We love ours, in fact it's our favorite seats. (we have two loungers in our LA Spa Paradise H-2.
Good luck
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Ok - deal is done (I Think) ;)
Unit will be ordered.
Artesian Antigua 42jet/2pump version.
Includes:
Delivery
Microban if we desire (still need to pick color tomorrow)
Durawood Cabinet
WhisperPure 24/7 Circ Pump
Standard Ozone
Multi Color LED Light
Upgraded Cover (2lb, 5/4" tapered)
Stairs (ABS)
Hydraulic Cover Lifer
Startup Chemicals
Total Price $6250. (no tax state)
Good local SPA dealer and we trust the Artesian name from our research. Going a bit on faith for the fit, . . . but sure we will be happy in the end.
Would love to here comments if we did alright on this price. If there are any Artesian dealers that could post the 'list price' for this set up I would appreciate it.
And - thanks for all the help here!
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I don't mean to alarm you brent, but I re-read your posts and it appears you didn't wet test the Artesian. Is that true? We wet tested the Grand Cayman (another Island series model) and the main reason we didn't like it was that the seats were ALL VERY UPRIGHT, and one of the corner seats was too shallow for me to fit underneath the collar (which the Antigua has 2). I am only 5'11" so I'm not extremely tall but this may be of concern to you as well. I would strongly suggest finding any unit in the Island series to at least sit in dry to make sure it's going to be comfortable for you.
In regards to the price, yours sounds fair, but I have found that you really can't compare prices on a nationwide basis due to a variety of factors. If you do, you're going to drive yourself crazy. IMO, just compare units in your area and then decide on what you think fits you the best, is the best manufactured, and gives the best value. Here in suburban Chicago, we got a quote of $7500 for the Cayman for the 62 jet package (3 pumps) with ozonator, circ pump, stainless steel jets, steps, and cover.
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I don't mean to alarm you brent, but I re-read your posts and it appears you didn't wet test the Artesian. Is that true? We wet tested the Grand Cayman (another Island series model) and the main reason we didn't like it was that the seats were ALL VERY UPRIGHT, and one of the corner seats was too shallow for me to fit underneath the collar (which the Antigua has 2). I am only 5'11" so I'm not extremely tall but this may be of concern to you as well. I would strongly suggest finding any unit in the Island series to at least sit in dry to make sure it's going to be comfortable for you.
Yea, . . . this is the only concerning part of this purchase. Through a round about way, we are comfortable with our decision. We did get to dry test a big brother (Cayman [I believe] or possibly one out of the Gold Line). It was the only Artesian SPA the dealer had in the store. We will get to verify tomorrow when we close the deal. We were also looking at a used Gold Opal, so while we were there, we got to check out the jets pressure with our hands and it compared very very well to anything we had felt in stores. I wasn't going into that SPA however, . . . it had not been used in a long time, the guy filled it that morning, and when I started to turn on jets and run the diverters, lots of gunk came out. :)
From the line drawings on Artesian's website, the 42 jet version only has a single 'full seat' with neck jetting. The other seat is converted to a standard type SPA seat with a very nice jet package. So, . . . should be ok for that seat, . . . I'm a lounger and only my wife is likely to sit there when she is looking for a neck message. If she doesn't fit - that would be something!
So, . . . yes this is a risk, . . . one we have decided to take. As for value, . . . like many, I am just trying to make sure we got a good deal. Financially, this blows away anything close that we were coming up with locally. A Caldera Martinique @$6500 (without stairs/hydraulic lifter and some of the other options) was the closest - I think the Antique is better equipped, not as good warrantee, but just as good a brand. Everything else in this class was in easily in the $7 & $8K range - even 'on sale'. Going down to a 2/3 person got us back into the $6Ks range, . . . so this became a compromise.
Hope we don't regret this, . . . but cost is a consideration, and I think we did pretty good overall. Only time will tell.
Anyone have any data on what I listed goes for typically in your area?
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Sorry if you have already mentioned this, but why are you rushing into the purchase?
There are no good enough reasons to not wet test a spa before purchasing,IMO.
If your dealer doesn't have one on the floor. Tell him you'll give them a deposit and have them ship you one for a wet test. You like, you buy. You don't like, you don't buy and get your money back and now the dealer has more than one spa set up for wet testing. It's a win win.
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Our base price for an 05 Antiqua was 6295.00 Anything Added. 300.00 for the synthetic sideing 250.00 for circ pump, 99.00 for the led light, 200.00 for micro ban shell, 300.00 for ozone,cover lift 199.00, cover,chems,steps and delivery no charge.
Of course all that is full retail and negotiable at time of closeing. If you can get them to add micro ban go for as the colors do look brighter,otherwise I dont think its worth the cost nor do I think it really matters if its there or not.
All in all I would say its a great price for that spa and considering the price I showed you is based on a 2005 you did good.
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Forget about comparing prices with others here. I am convinced that is a waste of time unless you can find foks in the same market. I'm sure my prices here in Chicago are higher than in Columbus, OH for example just because the overall cost of living is higher. Stores have higher rents, pay more in salaries which means they have to charge more for product. It's simple economics.
But make sure you like the feel of the seats. The jets on the Artesians are great; you won't have any regrets there. Too bad, you couldn't move up to the Platinum Series. The Piper Glen is quite a nice product and the seats are a little larger and a bit more reclined. Let us know how things turn out regardless.
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Our base price for an 05 Antiqua was 6295.00 Anything Added. 300.00 for the synthetic sideing 250.00 for circ pump, 99.00 for the led light, 200.00 for micro ban shell, 300.00 for ozone,cover lift 199.00, cover,chems,steps and delivery no charge.
Of course all that is full retail and negotiable at time of closeing. If you can get them to add micro ban go for as the colors do look brighter,otherwise I dont think its worth the cost nor do I think it really matters if its there or not.
All in all I would say its a great price for that spa and considering the price I showed you is based on a 2005 you did good.
Thanks Jim, . . . exactly what I needed to know.
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Sorry if you have already mentioned this, but why are you rushing into the purchase?
There are no good enough reasons to not wet test a spa before purchasing,IMO.
If your dealer doesn't have one on the floor. Tell him you'll give them a deposit and have them ship you one for a wet test. You like, you buy. You don't like, you don't buy and get your money back and now the dealer has more than one spa set up for wet testing. It's a win win.
Time is of the essense a bit. We will be into snow season soon and will make delivery to the rear of the house very trying if we delay too long. Plus, nothing like being in the tub on the first snow of the season. :)
I'll talk to to the dealer on this one, . . . might work. Only caveat is that I know that they no longer keep any Artesian in stock, . . . so they may not wish to do this. They kept pushing the Vita/Reflections line to me. Turns out they had lots of left overs from the fall state fair circuit. But - this is worth a shot, . . . if they want the balance of the payment.
Thanks
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Forget about comparing prices with others here. I am convinced that is a waste of time unless you can find foks in the same market. I'm sure my prices here in Chicago are higher than in Columbus, OH for example just because the overall cost of living is higher. Stores have higher rents, pay more in salaries which means they have to charge more for product. It's simple economics.
I hear you to some extent. But, at least with cars there is a sticker on the window that tells you exactly what MSRP is. This is the same regardless of where you live. Some areas, car dealers have to add on and that is posted too, . . . but at least you know the starting point. That's all I'm looking for in this case, a starting point to know if the deal really is a good deal. :)
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I have a Cayman, didn't wet test but did dry test.
They probably feel the same except for the fact the Antiqua is a 7'x7' not 8'x8'.
I will tell you from experience that if it has neck jets that would be the only seat that might be a concern, other than that - you'll be fine. Neck jet seats can feel different to different people. Dry test felt OK but being wet they do feel a little snug - not too bad but noticable. But I don't live in the spa and when I do go in it I find I tend not to use it that often ... but when I need a full neck message, I will use it.
The jets on the Island series are a little smaller than the Gold or Platinum but I will say that I prefer the jets with the air on - they seem to give a more vigorous message. This is not a function of being weak but I find just water is too soft for me - bigger jets may even be softer.
Is a wet test 100% nessesary - I would say no but I would say it's a nice way to find maybe a little more "perfect" tub. Will you be miserable because you didn't wet test - I would also say no - probably gonna love the soakin'.
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do you like you Arctic Spa, why did you purchase it over others brands? I am looking for a hot tubs myself.
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I have been doing some research and wet tests. I like the Artric but not the wood cabinet. I like BullFrog but do not want to switch around the jets seats so I do not want to mess with it. D1 was on 35 inches deep. So far the Sundance Optima is the best layout and tests great.
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You'll have to let us know how it goes. I hated to read the only concern was the fit of the spa for you. That is the MAIN concern.
If you have not wet tested and have any concern, you are playing with fire. What will happen when you have it all delivered and it's not comfortable for you?
I'm not saying anything about your choice of LA - if you like it, fine - you just really need to know beyond doubt it'll fit you right. That is a huge gamble. If it doesn't fit right, you'll have an uncomfortable spa for a long time.
Did you buy your car without driving it?
I truly hope this works out for you. I'm just concerned for you.