Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: wesj53 on December 04, 2006, 02:37:40 pm
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SpaNE raised an interesting topic in Wet and Confused; that being the desire to have distinguishable varieties of "feel" in different seats of a spa. When we were spa shopping, we tried our best to remember which hot tubs had the most different feels from one seat to another. I personally think this is one of the most important features that a newbie should be looking for in order to prevent boredom in a spa and also to maximize therapy received from different types of jets.
I do not want to pick on one brand, but one that comes to my mind as having similar jets in almost all seats was the Artesian; both their Island and Platinum series. To the best of my recollection (correct me if I am wrong Artesian owners), they only had rotational (small and large) and a few directional. I'm sure they are not the only ones; rather probably the rule than the exception.
To those dealers and repair techs, how many different types of jets are there available in the market (by Waterway or their competitors), what models have the most varied selection, and why would a mfg not offer all types within the same spa to maximize enjoyment?
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This subject would be my biggest criticism of my Optima, and probably Sundance tubs in general. I call my tub "boring" when it comes to jets. That said, the jets are very strong and I'm able to utilize the foot dome in a number of different ways, and I certainly don't think the lack of variety has any impact on the quality of the therapy. I just like some of the "blingier" tubs I see out there even though I don't think the therapy would be any better...
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Just as important, if not more imho is not just the type of jet, or the variety, but the placement of where it is.
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I think it comes down to placement of the jets vs variety and how a manufacturer "thinks" the proper jetting should be. It seems that Artesian believes in placing the jets on either side of the spine and across the shoulders in their Island series, they do place them at different heights in relationship to the seats as some jets get covered with water before others. It looks like in their Platinum series they add a couple lower ones around the butt area, I never wet tested the Piper to compare. I know that Master and Down East has a lot of different sizes and placement differences in their tubs. From what I remember most tubs I looked at had pretty much the same jets and/or configurations throught the tub.
If you go to Waterway and look at the types of jets available for a given size there are probably 10 different jets. I can't tell you how different each one feels but I have thought about trying a couple of different jets on a single seat. I don't know what the difference would be with a double swirly vs single or a pulsating jet vs non but for $30-$40 a jet it might be worth a try.
My thoughts are I wanted hot water to relax an aching back, didn't want jets going up my spine and after a little while of ownership found "my" seat. I rarely switch seats these days, I have a favorite seat that seems to give me what I need and stay there. I do switch up occassionally but find 1 seat gives me the best therapy out of them all.
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-As a point of comparison, my old HS Prodigy only had seven jets which were of the very basic kind. I am amazed at the different feel I now get from the various jets in my new tub.
-I like the idea that you are able to swap out the types of the larger rotational jets and modify the character of the various seats.
-I also find that due to the positioning of the foot jets in the footwell, they are accessible to multiple seats in the tub, rather than just one particular seat.
-I also like that many of the larger jets are equipped with a bezel edge that can be turned to adjust the power of each jet head.
I think it's obvious that a lot of new technology has been added to these jets when you compare them to older tubs.
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My "older" Optima, before the bearingless jets (except in the therapy seat), offers different jets. They just snap and twist out.
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Just as important, if not more imho is not just the type of jet, or the variety, but the placement of where it is.
I completely agree with you. The most powerful seat in my tub has jets that are just too wide-set for my small frame. On a bigger person, they'd probably hit the lats nicely, but on me, I just feel the suggestion of a jet along my side. If I wiggle my arms into the seat, I get those jets on my triceps. Interesting, but not generally as therapeutic as they would be on my back.
Given the variety of body types out there, and the variety of body parts to which people want a massage directed, it is probably really tough for tub makers to design jet patterns. How cool would it be if you could have custom made shells and jets, or at least custom jet placement?
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Just as important, if not more imho is not just the type of jet, or the variety, but the placement of where it is.
I completely agree with you. The most powerful seat in my tub has jets that are just too wide-set for my small frame. On a bigger person, they'd probably hit the lats nicely, but on me, I just feel the suggestion of a jet along my side. If I wiggle my arms into the seat, I get those jets on my triceps. Interesting, but not generally as therapeutic as they would be on my back.
Given the variety of body types out there, and the variety of body parts to which people want a massage directed, it is probably really tough for tub makers to design jet patterns. How cool would it be if you could have custom made shells and jets, or at least custom jet placement?
There are some small "garage makers" who will have you come in and will mark and drill out a shell specifically for you.
But overall, this is why variety is a good thing, not just in the jets, but the seating and placement. And what you might have thought in the wet test woud be yur favorite seat, in a few months, you find another seat that becomes your favorite.
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OK, I'm confused. I've seen 2 different post about Sundance jets being pretty much boring or no variety. Makes me think that some dealer isn't really going over the features of the spa or maybe I'm just really confused.
I can adjust the jets to where they are pulsating or not plus they can be switched around. I have no two seats that are alike and they are at different levels. I have a Cameo but I thought that the lounger was the only difference between the Cameo and the Optima but I guess not.
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Drew and Vinny make good points about placement, something I didn't address but certainly was not my intention to overlook. It is super important that jets hit you in the right places. As my wife and I found out, there were some mfg models that were too wide for us as well since we are not "wide bodies" (like Anne). For example, on the D1 Nautilus and Californian, there were a few seats in each of them with dual, side by side jets that both hit us in our armpits and not in the shoulders. Very uncomfortable and we therefore wrote off D1 for that reason.
Conversely, we found that Arctic seems to have their jets closer together, almost seemingly made for thinner folks like us. That being said, I am still exchanging some 3" rotational with my dealer for the top row of one of the corner seats (I think the one Anne was speaking of) for 3" directionals because I like a firmer feel on my shoulder and deltoid areas than what the unit was supplied with. I know this is a very subjective matter, but one that I think everyone has some opinions on. I would find all imput from other folks very interesting to hear. Please share.
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Just as important, if not more imho is not just the type of jet, or the variety, but the placement of where it is.
I completely agree with you. The most powerful seat in my tub has jets that are just too wide-set for my small frame. On a bigger person, they'd probably hit the lats nicely, but on me, I just feel the suggestion of a jet along my side. If I wiggle my arms into the seat, I get those jets on my triceps. Interesting, but not generally as therapeutic as they would be on my back.
Given the variety of body types out there, and the variety of body parts to which people want a massage directed, it is probably really tough for tub makers to design jet patterns. How cool would it be if you could have custom made shells and jets, or at least custom jet placement?
There are some small "garage makers" who will have you come in and will mark and drill out a shell specifically for you.
But overall, this is why variety is a good thing, not just in the jets, but the seating and placement. And what you might have thought in the wet test woud be yur favorite seat, in a few months, you find another seat that becomes your favorite.
I guess I should have said "wouldn't it be cool if the people who make spas that we already trust and love could do custom jet placement" but that would be hideously expensive, I know.
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I can adjust the jets to where they are pulsating or not plus they can be switched around. I have no two seats that are alike and they are at different levels. I have a Cameo but I thought that the lounger was the only difference between the Cameo and the Optima but I guess not.
Fair points. True, there are a number of pulsating jets that feel good, but they don't pulsate when you open the air control; at that point they're just straight-shooters. And yes the positioning is different in each seat, but the jets themselves all feel the same (including the foot dome jets). Compare this to a tub with spinning jets, etc. Of course, the benefit with the Sundance bearingless jets are that they won't bind up over time like other spinning/moving jets!
How do you move the jets around?
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IHow do you move the jets around?
Most mfg have interchangeable jets where you turn them past a "stop" and then release them. It's best if you have a pump running as they pop out easier then. I have done "trades" with my Arctic to "customize" the feel for my own personal preference. I think you can do the same with Sundance jets (if I remember them correctly).
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I'll give you that Sundance jets are similar, and lack individual personalities that other brands like Arctic may have.. that was my one & only "con" with the Sundance Optima (ok, besides the price). But - they are by no means "boring"! Are there 20 different flavors? No, but they do the job! I definitely get excellent therapy and do NOT get bored in my spa ;)
If you have to have a two dozen different styles jets in your spa to "prevent bordeom" then maybe Sundance is not the tub for you. We weighed jet variety with size, layout, quality, varied seat heights, appearance, air bubbler, etc.. etc... and the Optima was a clear choice (for us!).
There are many factors that make a great spa, and jet variety is only one of them. Each buyer has to weigh how important it is for them.. but I can say that we've had the spa 2 months now and and LOVE it. Do I think we'll get bored b/c there are only 6 or so different types of jets? Absolutely not!!! My point is there are a number of factors that go into the decision process, and I disagree w/ the original poster that jet variety "is one of the most important features that a newbie should be looking for in order to prevent boredom in a spa and also to maximize therapy received from different types of jets. "
That's my $0.02... and it's really directed to newbies who may read this... moreso than to current owners.
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Ok, patty, I'm not sure why you disagree with me. I specifically said different jet styles is ONE of the most important features and you posted that "jet variety is only one of them". I think we're saying the same thing, are we not? I didn't say one factor is more important than another; just bringing up a subject I think would be of interest to most. (Sorry if you were insulted by my post.)
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One of the reasons I went with my Dimension 1 Sarena Bay was the two "BioForm Recliners, each equipped with a programmable Dynamic Massage Sequencer." I was worried that it was all manufacturing hype, but the more I use it, the more I like it. I can vary the sequence and timing of the massage in the two seats in my spa. There are six different programs and a variable timer that lets you change the length of each segment of the massage. My particular model has two of these seats, as well as other seats with different things going on. I enjoy the variety, and find that I DON'T like to just sit and be blasted -- it is annoying, wearing, and kind of hurts after awhile.
In the Dimension 1 line, the Chariman II and Lotus Bay spas have one of these seats, and the Sarena Bay has two.
The only thing similar to this that I saw was the Hot Spring Moto Massage, but it is the same thing over and over. The Dimension 1 gives some variety.
Anyone else have something like this on their spa, or are there other Dimension 1 owners out here?
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How do you move the jets around?
Its really simple, unscrew the 2 unions and the air line behind the seatback and you can move the jetpacks around all you want! Ooopps.......nope.......wait a minute......thats only on a Bullfrog ;) ;)
Sorry gang but I can't resist the easy ones ;D
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One of the reasons I went with my Dimension 1 Sarena Bay was the two "BioForm Recliners, each equipped with a programmable Dynamic Massage Sequencer." I was worried that it was all manufacturing hype, but the more I use it, the more I like it. I can vary the sequence and timing of the massage in the two seats in my spa. There are six different programs and a variable timer that lets you change the length of each segment of the massage. My particular model has two of these seats, as well as other seats with different things going on. I enjoy the variety, and find that I DON'T like to just sit and be blasted -- it is annoying, wearing, and kind of hurts after awhile.
In the Dimension 1 line, the Chariman II and Lotus Bay spas have one of these seats, and the Sarena Bay has two.
The only thing similar to this that I saw was the Hot Spring Moto Massage, but it is the same thing over and over. The Dimension 1 gives some variety.
Anyone else have something like this on their spa, or are there other Dimension 1 owners out here?
Wow - I was at a D1 dealer last week and he never mentioned that cool Dynamic Massage Sequencer. :o Sounds perfect. The main feature he was proud of was the NeckFlex jet, however, I was thinking that water would be splashng all over my head with the jet out of the water. I also did not like the aesthetics with the "butterfly" shape and white shell, however, I realize that I should probably pay more attention to performacne and less to looks. Maybe I'll take another look just for that cool DMS...
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Ok, patty, I'm not sure why you disagree with me. I specifically said different jet styles is ONE of the most important features and you posted that "jet variety is only one of them". I think we're saying the same thing, are we not? I didn't say one factor is more important than another; just bringing up a subject I think would be of interest to most. (Sorry if you were insulted by my post.)
I disagree on variety being the one of the most important features. I think it's one of many factors - whose importance is determined by the buyer. And I disagree that one becomes bored without a wide variety. That's it. Not insulted by any means :)
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my 2c
There's a big difference between the Jacuzzi LX jets when they are set to rotate versus shooting straight. One seat in the j-345 has two LX jets around kidney level on me, when those suckers are set to rotate it feels like my internal organs are being turned into mush.
Overall the j-345 has 5 MX jets (big large volume), 4 LX (straight or rotate) and 16 FX (smaller more pinpoint).
So for just 25 jets there's a pretty good variety of therapy effects.
Steve
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One of the reasons I went with my Dimension 1 Sarena Bay was the two "BioForm Recliners, each equipped with a programmable Dynamic Massage Sequencer." I was worried that it was all manufacturing hype, but the more I use it, the more I like it. I can vary the sequence and timing of the massage in the two seats in my spa. There are six different programs and a variable timer that lets you change the length of each segment of the massage. My particular model has two of these seats, as well as other seats with different things going on. I enjoy the variety, and find that I DON'T like to just sit and be blasted -- it is annoying, wearing, and kind of hurts after awhile.
In the Dimension 1 line, the Chariman II and Lotus Bay spas have one of these seats, and the Sarena Bay has two.
The only thing similar to this that I saw was the Hot Spring Moto Massage, but it is the same thing over and over. The Dimension 1 gives some variety.
Anyone else have something like this on their spa, or are there other Dimension 1 owners out here?
Wow - I was at a D1 dealer last week and he never mentioned that cool Dynamic Massage Sequencer. :o Sounds perfect. The main feature he was proud of was the NeckFlex jet, however, I was thinking that water would be splashng all over my head with the jet out of the water. I also did not like the aesthetics with the "butterfly" shape and white shell, however, I realize that I should probably pay more attention to performacne and less to looks. Maybe I'll take another look just for that cool DMS...
One of the other things I liked about the Sarena/Lotus Bay WAS the funky shape - different from anything else out there. It isn't just "a box of water" (as someone has said), but it has a little style.
The white shell is their main shell color option, but they come in other colors, too. The Ultralife Alpine (aka, White!) has a much longer warranty ("lifetime" - whatever that means) but they have other colors with a standard warranty (7 years). I bought a floor model (never wet), and it happened to have the white. Looks VERY COOL at night with the LED lights/fountain going. Other colors wouldn't show the colors as well.
The Neckflex collars are pretty cool. That got my attention, too. If you have the water level in the spa filled correctly, the nexk jets don't spash about too much. If the water level is too low, several of the more powerful jets on both sides of the spa not only splash, but they can shoot out of the spa. The Neckflex collars are adjustable up and down for the height of the individual - I have a long torso, so I have it up as high as it will go, and I could still use another inch or two, but it's ok.
The Dynamic Massager really is cool . You can select one of several sequences, or have all the jets going, and you can pause the thing (it actually has a pause button) if you just want one section of jets to work.
Several of my jets are interchangeable, and my dealer gave me a couple to try, but I just like the ones that came with the tub.
Larry
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my 2c
There's a big difference between the Jacuzzi LX jets when they are set to rotate versus shooting straight. One seat in the j-345 has two LX jets around kidney level on me, when those suckers are set to rotate it feels like my internal organs are being turned into mush.
Overall the j-345 has 5 MX jets (big large volume), 4 LX (straight or rotate) and 16 FX (smaller more pinpoint).
So for just 25 jets there's a pretty good variety of therapy effects.
Steve
I agree that the 25 jets provide plenty of variety. I chose this spa mainly b/c of this. It had the most variated jets in it's price range, IMO.
Steve, by far my favorite seat is the "therepy seat". (the one with 9 fx jets)