Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: bohms on October 04, 2006, 04:58:59 pm
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I know that this has been asked on here before but I can't find the post. Everyone's tub comes with all kinds of wrap on it, right? Ours wasn't wrapped at all - it only had a loose tarp over it when it arrived. My husband went by the store today and what do you know, the Marquis Destiny that we wet tested was gone (that's the model we bought). The one that was delivered to us had a little water in it and was dirty. There was no owners manual....also my husband picked up the stairs today and there's all nicks on them....looks like they were used. He just got off the phone with the store and our salesman wasn't there but the Sales Mgr is "looking into it". I'm pissed. I don't mind getting a floor model but I'm not willing to pay full price for it. Doesn't that need to be disclosed???
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It should be disclosed. They should do something for you. :-?
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My husband also said that there were used cartridges in the holder. There is also a black mark on the side.
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Sounds like you got the floor! I'd ask for a credit or else.
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That's exactly what we're going to do. How much credit do I ask for? Our total was $9159.20 and that was including tax, cover, delivery, steps and duralift and chemical package.
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A credit might help, but my fear would be how is that dealer going to treat you in the long run. Obviously they can't be trusted -- what happens when you need a repair? Big bummer... :(
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I would let them know that you want a new one and see if they respond with an alternative to amke it worth your while to keep the floor model. It's hard to believe this was on prupose because if they were trying to pull a fast one you'd think they'd have rewrapped it, cleaned it out thoroughly and put the manual in place.
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The crazy thing is that I've heard nothing but good things about this dealer. Problem is that we can't easily switch it out for a new one. We live high up on a rocky hill and my husband used a JCB from work to get the tub up into our backyard through my neighbor's driveway. It was a major process.
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Bohms,
Was this Rix???? I too have heard good things about them.
We ended up going with a Caldera Geneva. The Marquis was just too expensive for a 7' tub IMO.
Marc
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Gores - yes it was Rix. We fell in love with the Destiny when we wet tested.
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They should disclose it. Not even new filters? Probably an oversight, I 'm sure they'll make it right.
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Wow, I would be upset. I would first talk to the dealer for an explanation. If it was in fact a demo model, I personally would insist on a new spa. I don't think it would be worth a few hundred dollar credit. Especially since you've already paid for the spa. Let us know how it turns out.
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Gomboman - normally I would say to switch it out for a new spa since that's what I paid for, but I'm not sure if you saw my last post. We live high on a rocky hill and it was a major process to get this one in our backyard. My husband and his friends used a JCB from my husband's job to lift it from my neighbors driveway onto my patio. Then 7 guys carried it to where it is sitting now. We have about 30 steps leading up to my house. So at this point we just want some kind of credit. But how much less is a floor model worth? I'm waiting for a call from the dealer.
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IF he sold you the floor instead of new, he should pay for the labor as well to haul out the used and re-deliver the new one. If he refuses, you can then ask him to increase a credit back to you. If all else, fails, I would threaten him with a report to the BBB or a visit to small claims court. Start taking pics of the defects in your "new" tub as well for evidence.
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IF he sold you the floor instead of new, he should pay for the labor as well to haul out the used and re-deliver the new one. If he refuses, you can then ask him to increase a credit back to you. If all else, fails, I would threaten him with a report to the BBB or a visit to small claims court. Start taking pics of the defects in your "new" tub as well for evidence.
I agree. I would not threaten anything, but I do think that since this ws their error they should have to deal with the labor of it. And you should get more cerdit than on a pristine floor model if it has a black mark on it. New filters, too.
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If I paid for a new spa I would not be satified with a credit. If I wanted a floor model I would have tried to bargain for one in the first place. I also can't believe this is an honest mistake but more likely a calculated move to get rid of a floor model. The dealer probably counted on not much fuss and issuing a store credit. A win win for the dealer. Sorry if my post seems harsh.
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I agree with you JFISH - I don't believe it was a mistake either. They knew exactly what they were doing. If I don't hear back from them within the next 2 or 3 hours I'm going to call.
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Abosultley horrible. What a classless piece of S$%
I would be pissed if that happned to me, and I would fight them till the end to get a new spa.
Never trust these guys.
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I agree with you JFISH - I don't believe it was a mistake either. They knew exactly what they were doing. If I don't hear back from them within the next 2 or 3 hours I'm going to call.
If it was not a mistake then they are truly bumblers because they could have made it very difficlut for you to tell the difference if they wanted toput the effort into cleaning it, rewrapping it and changing out the filters. It's a poker game at this point, they don't need to know what your hand is. Tell them you want it replaced and see how they counter.
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Sorry to hear of your troubles... Being new to the spa world myself, I would just try to remember you can get more by staying calm and using honey rather than vinegar.
I would remain calm, while taking the "I'm so disappointed" stance. Personally, I would not accept anything less than 2-3k off... And all the paperwork for your spa. Not only is it a floor model, but they got rid of it to move something new into it's spot! It is probably last years model, etc.
Otherwise, they can come get their spa for a total refund. They would assume ALL delivery and pick up charges. Then go to a different dealer...
At this point, I would assume you would not receive good service in the future, if you had any problems with the spa.
Good luck, I hope they do you right!
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Remember you paid over $9000 for this thing, and from the sounds of it, it appears as if he screwed you.
I wouldn't accept any counter offer, but that's just me.
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Thanks everyone for your responses.
Any Marquis dealers out there with advice???
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Sled Junkie - the problem is, they can't crane a new one in b/c there are too many tall trees (we had a crane operator come and survey it). My husband would have to go through the same process that we he went through to get the new one in the yard. The machine he used to get it in here is now located at a job in another state. Do you mean have the dealership figure out how to get it out of here? Now that would be interesting...
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Wow, it really sounds like a process to get it there. I'd love to see pics of the set up. I'm a total pessimist and believe that most people are useless but not intentionally, lol. I would give them the benefit of the doubt until you have reason not to, then go after them, guns blazings if need be.
From what I remember here... a lot of dealers only discount floor models a couple hundred dollars, but I know some people IRL are able to really save a bundle going that route. I think the main thing is its not what you thought you bought. You need to be satisified and get whatever it takes to get that whether it is they (the dealer) find a way to get the spa out of your property and give you a full refund and you go from there or they give you new filters, a manual, new cartridges, a satisfactory discount, and a an apology for the inconvenience and mistake.
Like others have said, I would stay calm for now and just really try to get to the bottom of what happend. And give them a chance to rectify the situation.... they have a good repuatation for a reason I imagine.
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Just asking a clairification question:
Since you wet tested the floor model and I assume did some price bargaining, was the sale made on the assumption that you were bargaining on the floor model that you wet tested?
Does your sales agreement specify a new unit, give a serial number, or give any referrence to a "floor model"?
Not taking sides on this issue since I wasn't there when you did your bargaining.
But it doesn't appear that the dealer tried to make this look like it was a brand new "in-the-box" unit.
I could be wrong, and you are being taken advantage of.
I'm not a dealer, just a tub user, but am in a profession that reqiures everything to be clearly specified in writing before signing anything.
Good luck.
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OrangePeel - NO...we NEVER mentioned anything about wanting a floor model and on our contract (or receipt) with them, there is a spot for Floor Model and it is NOT checked. I just got off the phone with the Sales Mgr and he's coming to my house in an hour and a half and he's going to look at the model #'s etc. For some reason our salesguy is nowhere to be found so they can't even discuss it with him. He thinks that maybe there were 3 or 4 of them in the lot and the delivery guys picked up the wrong one. Sounds like BS to me but I'm going to give them a chance to make good on it.
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Thanks everyone for your responses.
Any Marquis dealers out there with advice???
I would be happy to help with advice...PM me with you phone # and I will see what I can do to help between you and the dealer. I know most of them....
Here is how I would handle it from my store, I would give you new steps, send a tech out to clean up any marks and have him bring new filters. Then I would give you an in store credit for maintenance products that would be fair to both.
The bottom line is this, you got the model you wanted but it was a wet display, this doesn't make it less of what you wanted. The dealer doesn't get a discount for the floor display but should by all means disclose to you that your getting a display.
I should have Never come dirty and with dirty filters....The delivery crew should have taken care of the on the spot! You should have also received new steps.
We have this happen from time to time where a salesperson did not make the customer understand that the price was on the floor model or didn't ask if the customer preferred a new one so the delivery crew brought out the floor display without knowing.
I blamed the salesperson for not communicating with the customer well, then the delivery crew for not going through the spa with a fine tooth comb to make sure it was clean and ready (Even when you buy a floor model you expect it clean and new filters) and after having discussions with my crew paid to correct their mistakes with the customer.
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Stuart your solution would not even come close to making me happy with a 9k plus purchase. The things you mention are what should have been done if a floor model was the purchase but for considerable less money.
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jfish I agree 100%.
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The bottom line is this, you got the model you wanted but it was a wet display, this doesn't make it less of what you wanted.
Wow, I definitely don't follow that logic. As a buyer what I want is a NEW spa which, in my eyes, couldn't be more different than a used demo. Being the the same model doesn't even come close to being what I "wanted"!
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Bohms:
Thanks for the cliarification.
Since you bought a new, unused unit, that's what you should get.
Good luck with your dealer.
Orangepeel
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Clearly if you want a new spa, not a floor model, the dealer should make it happen, difficult delivery or not. If there is any other way to satisfy you the dealer should do that.
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Sales Mgr came and says that he's "almost positive" that it's NOT a floor model. So I told him to explain the used bromine cartridges that were in there and to explain the reason why the electrician said that all of the screws were loose as if someone else had played with the wires and why there was a black scuff/scratch on it and why it never tripped after 24 hours like they said it would. He took down the Serial # and I asked if he would be able to tell by that and he said, "Well we shift the tubs around a lot so we won't really know if it was a floor model.....blah, blah, blah". My salesguy is off today and he wanted to wait until he talked to him tomorrow so I told him to call him at home and he told me that he doesn't have a phone. WHAT????!!!!!
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B-A-L-O-N-E-Y!!!!!!
I wish you luck, but that's bullcorn the runaround they're giving you.
Terminator
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Bohms, I really feel for you having to go through this. This is supposed to be a really enjoyable time (getting your new tub), and they are crapping all over it. My suggestion, if you haven't started doing this already, is start documenting who you talk to about this, when you talked to them, and what was said. Hopefully, this will be taken care of for you very quickly, but if not and it drags on, you will have documented everything from the beginning. Like someone mentioned in an earlier post, taken pictures of all of the mishaps.
I hope everything works out.
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Bohms:
Sounds like you are really getting crapped on.
If it's not too late I would put a stop payment on your check, or if you used a credit card, file a dispute with the card issuer.
If too late for that, file a complaint to the Better Business Bureau.
Squeeky wheels usually get oiled.
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Hello Bohms
I have a Marquis Epic
It was delivered with large stickers in the tub
I had to use gas - yes gasoline to remove them as recomended by my dealer
He told me that in Canada, they are not allowed to remove them, kind of like the label on a new matress
I would get in touch with Jeff Shaw at Marquis and have him straiten it out for you if the dealer won't
This sounds like a load of bull $hit to me
They knew you had to bring in heavy equipment to get in place and this is what you got
Give Jeff the serial number and he can give you the mfg date
What a bunch of a$$ holes to do this to you
Damn jerks
Steve
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Well, Artic used to pay their dealers to fill the spas up before delivery to consumers to make sure there were no leaks. I believe dealers received $80 bucks a spa. Maybe this is what this dealer did.
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It sounds like you are getting the runaround. What you described is not what we call a factory wrapped spa.
They either deliberately delivered the wrong spa or they are disorganised and accidentally delivered the wrong spa.
Calling Jeff Shaw is a good idea.
I would still try to work with the dealer to fix the situation. I would not stop payment on a check, but I might dispute a credit card. If I financed I would get the finance company involved. You have specific rights when using a credit card or financing that are different than when using a check.
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I was trying to see from both sides however it sounds as if the dealer is not taking any responsibility and the sales manager is trying to "sell" his way out of it.
I often wonder why people don't just tell the truth and own up to things as they are regardless of consequence. There are always two sides to every story and we are only hearing one however it sounds pretty convincing to me!
As for the comments to my solution...It amazes me how often people would rather pick a fight than work out a solution (and I don't mean bohms).
If the dealer could make them happy with that tub by taking responsibility and giving them some extras then everyone is better off. It's not like that spa was out in the field for 2 years, it was on a showroom floor. Setting on the sidelines and escalating the situation by poking jabs is just childish.
To me all that matters is that bohms is happy with the outcome and the truth is told.
"Making someone pay" for the mistake one either side is wrong.
Creating a solution that turns the experience back into the good thing it was in the beginning is what needs to happen. If it can't then the dealer needs to refund the purchase, pick up the spa, let the customer move on and use the cost of delivery and pickup as a learning experience.
Truth be told we could have delivered a demo spa as new by an oversight as I explained before however, by the time my sales manager or myself went out to the customers house we would have known inexplicitly when that spa came in, whether it was a floor model and have documentation to show the customer!
The dealer should pay for a crane to swap the spa out if it comes to that out of good faith and just make the customer happy at this point.
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I would talk to the owner or a store manager, they should be able to make it right.
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I agree that contaction Jeff Shaw at Marquis would be helpful if you don't get a satisfactory responce from the dealer. His email is jshaw@marquiscorp.com
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Stuart, I did not want to imply I would start a fight. What I really wanted to imply is that if I paid for a brand new spa that is the only product I would accept. Afloor model might sit there being run for a year or more. Even though you might get the full warranty with the floor model you are not getting new spa components. IMO they will not last as long as brand new parts beyond the warranty. No fight just want what I pay for and not what someone thinks they can get away with giving me.
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One thing I do know....when we went to the store in the begining of July, they did not have the color we wanted on the floor. When we wet tested in August, the exact color/model was there and that's what we wet tested in. The Sales Mgr yesterday confirmed that this tub was manufactured mid July. So, my thought is that they put it as a floor model right when they received it in mid July. If that's the case, which I think it is, then the tub is a couple of months old.
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If that is the case and they can make the other problems alright it would not be so bad. I would still expect your problems to be corrected.
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The Destiny has been made in that style for less than a year...Most of us get between 30 and 90 day flooring on them and need to move the product.
I sell every spa as a floor model if I can and then try to deliver new and wrapped.
The spa was probably on the floor less than 3 months in a protected environment with professional maintenance. If those 3 months would cause the spa to have a shorter life span than a new wrapped spa than we have a bigger problem here.
I bought my BMW motorcycle with 1200 miles on it...for a BMW most of us would consider this new, I look at a Marquis the same way.
At times I encourage customers in remote areas to take the floor model as we know for a fact that everything is in good working order because we've been running it.
None of this changes the fact that bohms should have been informed, should have had the opportunity to ask for a new one and/or at the very lest should have been delivered a spa in new clean condition.
BTW to put some perspective on this, we discount our floor models between $200 and $300 unless there is a blemish of some kind. The problem is that most of the industry uses this as a closing tool, builds a hypothetical “regular” price and then tells the customer that they can save hundreds even thousands if they take the floor model. So the perception of the shopper is that they are getting more discount than what is real.
So for all of you out there, considering that I don’t pay any less cost for a floor model….How much less should it be?
Back to bohms deal here…I'm disappointed that the owner of the dealership hasn’t gotten involved and that this is not being address with more seriousness. The dealership loses credibility every hour that passes without a resolution..
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stuart,
You make good points from the dealer's perspective.
It appears from the information we have that this dealer is not forthcoming with a plausible explanation of what occurred and what they will do to make it right. That can lead us to believe that this was a conscious act to deliver something less than promised in a legally binding contract.
If this dealer is consciously selling new spas and then delivering floor models there needs to be some consequences to his actions. If everyone accepts a couple hundred bucks or some chemicals to make this kind of situation okay then the dealer will continue to defraud consumers.
Just my 2c, it doesn't seem unreasonable to require the dealer to remove the offending spa and replace it with what was promised. If nothing else this could setup the negotiations. When the dealer totals up what it will cost him to remove and deliver the spas maybe he'll be more willing to negotiate a reasonable settlement.
More important maybe he'll think twice before doing this to another consumer.
Steve
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We had this situation happen at one of our stores recently.
A customer ordered a Sovereign in a particular color. The only one we had was a dry floor model. We delivered it to his home. He asked why the spa was not wrapped, our guys told him because it came from the showroom. Our guys said it's a new spa and had never been filled except at the factory. He said he wanted a wrapped one, so we left that one there for him to use, ordered him a brand new one, brought it out two weeks later and swapped with him.
He was very happy, referred 2 of his co-workers to us, and they bought an Envoy and a Prodigy (in the wrapper) and everyone will have a Merry Christmas!
Terminator
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He said he wanted a wrapped one, so we left that one there for him to use, ordered him a brand new one, brought it out two weeks later and swapped with him.
He was very happy, referred 2 of his co-workers to us, and they bought an Envoy and a Prodigy (in the wrapper) and everyone will have a Merry Christmas!
Terminator
Wasn't it hard to use with it all wrapped??? :) :)
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We had this situation happen at one of our stores recently.
A customer ordered a Sovereign in a particular color. The only one we had was a dry floor model. We delivered it to his home. He asked why the spa was not wrapped, our guys told him because it came from the showroom. Our guys said it's a new spa and had never been filled except at the factory. He said he wanted a wrapped one, so we left that one there for him to use, ordered him a brand new one, brought it out two weeks later and swapped with him.
He was very happy, referred 2 of his co-workers to us, and they bought an Envoy and a Prodigy (in the wrapper) and everyone will have a Merry Christmas!
Terminator
Same thing happened with my first mail order bride.
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So for all of you out there, considering that I don’t pay any less cost for a floor model….How much less should it be?
Back to bohms deal here…I'm disappointed that the owner of the dealership hasn’t gotten involved and that this is not being address with more seriousness. The dealership loses credibility every hour that passes without a resolution..
IMHO (going on the info given here in this thread)
IF I were 'knowingly' buying a 'dry' floor model, it would be no big deal.
However, a wet demo floor model that others have 'wet tested', is then a used spa. I would expect to pay way less for 'taking' the floor model, and to do so knowingly. Otherwise, order me a new one. :)
The kink, with this situation, is that they were not KNOWINGLY buying a demo...!
Hypothetically, If you were to buy a spa and then a month later decide you no longer want it and you sell it, you are going to take a 2-3k hit on it. Just as a car BMW or not... you take a hit!
IF that dealer (Marquis in this case) is not willing to do things right... I say go buy a Hot Springs spa from Term... ;)
Personally it is about integrity of the dealer at this point. Things aren't done right, I would say come get your spa. Someone else that is willing to give good service and deserves the 10k purchase!
That's my nickles worth.
Yippee, they are pouring our slab today for our new HS Grandee 8-)
(we were going to use the existing patio, but too much of a slope for drainage...) Grandee to be delivered on the 11th! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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I being VERY patient. Salesguy called my house when I wasn't here. I called him back 20 minutes later and he "stepped out" and will call me right back. Didn't hear from him for an hour so I called back and he was still gone, he was expected back but they don't know where he is should be back any minute. Waited another 40 minutes and called again - he went out on a delivery and won't be back for at least an hour so I said that I wanted to speak with the Sales Mgr who came to my house yesterday and he said that he also stepped out and would call me back in 10 minutes. Now my blood is beginning to boil. I've been really nice but if I don't get a call back in 10 minutes I'm going to ask to speak to the owner.
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Get this.....they admit that there was a "mix up" BUT they said that it WAS in the showroom but it was never filled with water, just a dry demo. Then please explain the USED bromine cartridges that were in there and explain why our electrician said that someone else was definitely in the box - he could tell by all of the loose screws and the wires. We also found out which filters come with the tub from the Marquis factory and we didn't get those, we got the ones that were in the store. So they came back with an offer of draining our tub and detailing it. I laughed at him and said that he would have to do much better than that so he said he would throw in a $150 gift certificate. I laughed again and he said he would talk to the manager and owner.
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You should be working with owner or manager at this point. It sounds like sales guy did his job. Management or delivery delivered the wrong spa.
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IF it were me... at this point, pia delivery or not, I would say "you know, I did not get what I "ordered", dealer 'mix-up' (whatever they want to call it ::) ), you just come get your USED Marquis spa... and I will take my $10K elsewhere for a NEW spa. No fighting, no arguing... Bottom Line...
Find a dealer with good cust. service.
Terminator hit it on the head...
We had this situation happen at one of our stores recently.
A customer ordered a Sovereign in a particular color. The only one we had was a dry floor model. We delivered it to his home. He asked why the spa was not wrapped, our guys told him because it came from the showroom. Our guys said it's a new spa and had never been filled except at the factory. He said he wanted a wrapped one, so we left that one there for him to use, ordered him a brand new one, brought it out two weeks later and swapped with him.
He was very happy, referred 2 of his co-workers to us, and they bought an Envoy and a Prodigy (in the wrapper) and everyone will have a Merry Christmas!
Terminator
THAT is what a GOOD dealer/owner/manager would do... No matter what cost it was/is to them!
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It sounds like your nightmare is not ending soon. I had hoped from your earlier post things were getting better. I was almost sure when you said you wet tested a tub that was in the color you wanted and the tub you have was made in July they were going to say you wet tested the new tub they ordered for you. At this point it does not seem like the case. I can't believe they are saying it was never wet and it has used filters in it. Best of luck and keep us informed.
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Get the store manager or owner involved. As a last resort I would contact Jeff Shaw at Marquis and he will contact the dealer and resolve the situation.
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Yesterday the Sales Mgr asked me what I thought was fair, so I told him that I wanted a new tub OR I would want a $1,000 credit back to my credit card on the one that's sitting in my yard. He had to confer with the store mgr and I called this morning. They think that a fair deal is coming to clean the spa and detail it and give me a $150 gift certificate to the store. They still won't admit that it was a wet tested model. So I told them to come and pick up the spa and give me a full refund. He said that they need to find the "Man power" to carry our spa since we have about 30 stairs. So....are there any guesses as to how long it will take to come and get it? Should be interesting. My husband is about to have a heart attack b/c he can't believe that they just won't fess up. It's funny b/c I know a bunch of people ready to buy a spa.....guess where they won't be going!!!! I will be giving Jeff Shaw a call on Monday morning as well. Any other advice?
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Hey bohms, i think the quickest way to light a fire under their butts would be to call your credit card company and dispute the charges. Otherwise they could string you along for 60 - 180 days, then you would be past the time window Credit Card companies allow disputes. (Hopefully you paid on an AmEx because with them, the cardholder is always right, no questions asked).
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Viper - we did pay with Am Ex and I'm calling them right now.
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Kudos Bohm! I wish you lots of luck (even though with AmEx you shouldn't need it). If you have a camera, I would go ahead and start taking pictures to document all this. Also, if you can, get a written statement from the electrician. You probably won't need that, but let AmEx know you can provide that info if they need it.
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Well I hope to have a good story to tell all of you about my experience in about two weeks from now. I am going to bite my tounge right now and wait and see what happens. Markee knows what I am talking about but if things do get resolved this week then I will probably just bite my tounge
Steve
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Should get another thousand off just for my time in dealing with their mistake... my time is very valuable. And, they are putting a real damper on your spatopia time...!
I would take pictures of my deck and exit point so that if they mess anything else up you have a before and after pic. ;)
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I just sent an email to Jeff Shaw since he won't be in the office until Monday and I copied my dealer on it. I also called Am Ex to dispute it. Thank you everyone for your help. Cola - I PM'd you. I will let you know the outcome.
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It's too bad you didn't take pictures when it came off the truck with used filters, used bromine cartridge, no wrap etc. That would have been definate proof. I'm sure you will get this resoved.
Why don't you send this link to your dealer?
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I wish we would have taken pictures but they aren't debating that all of these things took place, they are just standing by what they said....that it's a new tub....no proof, just their word over mine. They called back before and said that they're coming to pick it up Tuesday morning between 9 and 10. It'll be interesting to watch them carry the tub down 30 or so stairs OVER a railing.....hehehehe, then down a steep driveway.
We'll see what Jeff Shaw (anyone know his title over at headquarters?) says on Monday - I also cc'd my dealer on the email.
I didn't even think to send this link to the dealer. Not sure if that would work for me or against me. I have told him several times that I frequent hot tub forums....that didn't seem to bother them.
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bohms: It's sad that the situation got to this point. I'm not sure exactly what Jeff's title is, but he works as a intermediary between the factory, dealers, and customers. He's a really good guy. This is Jeff on the Q&A section of the Marquis web site:
http://marquisspas.com/qa.asp
Maybe he can find a resolution so that you can get the spa that you liked.
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Holy cr-p Bohms to think I almost bought a Destiny from the same dealer. Really strange thing here is the dealership has (had!) such a good rep. Unfortunately for you I think the next nearest dealer is in NY State. If you are still stuck on Marquis I would give them a call...when I was shopping the nice thing about buying out of state was saving the super 7% NJ sales tax! As you can see I ended up buying another brand in PA.
My opinion is that they will give in...probably after this guy Jeff gets involved and stopping the Amex payment is also a great idea. I think the $1000 is a good lesson for them and considering the manpower needed to get the spa out of your backyard it is probably worth it to eat the grand.
I wish you best of luck with this and please let us know what happens!
Marc
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Wow, I'm coming back to this late, but I do wish you luk and hope that it all works out SOON. Look on the bright side (though it is not the easiest thing to do RIGHT NOW when you deserve to be soaking in a new tub, not stressing over a big hassle); hopefully one of the following will happen:
1. They'll pick up the tub, and you'll be happy that you discovered the shady (or incompetant) side of your sales guy now rather than later on, and you'll move on.
or
2. They'll see the foolishness of their ways when they see your steps, refund you $1000, and detail the tub while they are there. You'll still have the spa you wanted with a dealer who did finally come through for you, and a reasonable "compensation" for your time and stress.
Spatopia WILL come!
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Any update?
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Well - it's gone. Jeff Shaw never responded. They came this morning with 8 guys and instead of going down all of my stairs, they went down the other side of my house which is VERY steep with loose rock everywhere. They used PVC pipes to slide it down. At one point I thought they were going to lose it b/c the guys on the bottom couldn't keep their footing with the rocks slipping. I have the whole thing on video! They completely scracthed up the side of the tub with the rocks. All of that b/c they didn't want to credit our account $1,000 for being deceitful to us....who's going to buy the tub with all of those scratches now? Our salesguy was there and he couldn't even make eye contact with me....he was obviously so embarrassed of all the lies he told. Anyway......we're in the market for a new tub!! Going to look at Sundance this week and going back to Hot Springs to see what they have again! Can't believe we have to start the whole process again! DON'T EVER BUY FROM RIX IN EAST HANOVER, NJ!!! They will give you a floor model or wet test model and try to pretend like it's new!! We were smart enough to catch them....I wonder how many others they've done this to.
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I sent PM's offering to help and believe that I could have...
As dissapointed in the dealer over the situation as I am it think that getting in touch with the owner of the store and talking logic could have worked.
Did they ever offer a reason for the used Frog cartridges? Taking reponsiblity in the beguining could have changed everything...it sounds like you loved the spa, you just needed to feel comfortable with the value. They didn't do that and lost a sale...shame.
Now back to the $1000 credit. At the end of the day do you honestly believe that there is that much profit in a spa? As a dealer I would not have considered a $1000 credit but I would have worked a lot harder to make you happy in every other way possible.
Jeff would probably not have responded until he was able to talk to the owner of the store himself. Politics dictate that he should talk with his dealer and get an answer before forming a judgement or response.
BTW, I would have probably lost patience myself and had the spa picked up!
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The customer is NOT always right, in spite of what you may hear. However, based on the information that was presented on this forum, the dealer was way out of line and simply made things worse by trying to be deceitful. Hopefully they learned a lesson and hopefully you'll find another dealer worthy of your business. :)
Terminator
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Stuart - The owner of the dealership sent me an email apologizing for his salesmen not being truthful. He said that it was never put on my contract as to whether or not it was going to be a new spa or a wet test floor model. He was basically trying to cover up for all of the lies that the Salesguy and Sales Mgr told me. In the end it wound up costing them more than $1,000. The tub is all scratched from the rocks and the salesguy backed the van into the cover lifter bar....not to mention the time and effort it took the 8 guys to come and get it.
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Here in the Hudson Valley of New York I believe there is at least $1000 in profit on a spa. That is at least in the price a dealer is willing to sell one for. I have had rock bottom quotes only to get a call a week later with a sweeter deal. I also think the dealer in this case cost himself close to the 1000 anyway. The removing of the tub down the 'slippery slope' could have potentially cost someone a significant amount if someone were injured. It is probably a good idea to keep the video for a while just in case someone comes down with a back problem.
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Afterthought;
I was thinking about this and had a few questions....
1. What did the dealer say about the used cartridges?
2. Did you want a $1000 credit on the deal because you thought the "Demo" should be discounted that much or because felt the dealer was being deceitful?
3. Did anyone ever give you a chance to talk with the owner of the store?
As a Marquis dealer I'm sorry for your experience....As a dealer advisory board member I would personally love to get to the bottom of the whole thought process to see that Marquis dealers as a whole take experiences like this and learn from them.
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I see that you posted one of the answers while I was typing.... ;)
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Hey bohms, i think the quickest way to light a fire under their butts would be to call your credit card company and dispute the charges. Otherwise they could string you along for 60 - 180 days, then you would be past the time window Credit Card companies allow disputes. (Hopefully you paid on an AmEx because with them, the cardholder is always right, no questions asked).
Amex? really? That's good to know. I use visa and twice I had to dispute a payment. Each time it took several months for final resolution (even though the $$ was credited back to me). I had to document everything in painfull detail, an had to agree that what ever the decison by the abbritrators was, I was obligated to. Credit card disputes are not fun, but if that's your final option, then so be it. Good luck, Document everything and ensure the CC fully understands your issue.
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Stuart - the dealer never gave a response about the used cartridges (neither did the owner). I kept bringing it up but they never gave me a straight answer in email or over the phone. When the Sales Mgr came to my house he even went as far as to give a hypothetical about it....."Maybe your salesguy told someone at the store to put new cartridges in so that it would be delivered with new cartridges and that person misunderstood him and put in used cartridges". WHAT???!!!!! I laughed at him when he told me that.
I wanted a $1,000 credit for both reasons. First because I was sold a "wet test" tub when I thought it would be new and second b/c they were deceitful.
Let me be straight.....we absolutely LOVED the tub and I still think Marquis makes a great product. In the end it came down to principal and there was no way we were going to accept them cleaning the tub and giving us a $150 gift certificate to their store after all the lies we were told. NO WAY!!! The owner said that it was a valuable lesson for them but I'm not so sure I believe him.
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I for one am glad you stuck to your guns. In this day and age too many people are taken advantage of because they simply don't stand up for themselves.
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Thanks Jfish - I agree. We don't like to be taken advantage of and I really think that they thought that we would back down and keep the tub. I'm no fool.
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Great news. You should be proud of yourself..
Remember the primary goal of a salesman is to $sell$, not to look out for your best interests.
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Bohms, I am so sorry for you that the anticipation of spatopia has become a nightmare for you. I am especially sorry because you loved your tub and had already resolved the issue that is typically the most difficult...spa selection. You got to see the worst behaviour from a sales person, manager and even the owner. But you have to also put in perspective the efforts of Stuart to try to make things right for you as he is a wonderful representative of a great spa manufacturer. I can say that because I own a Marquis and contrary to what Sledjunkie posted, my sales person has become a friend who I not only trust but honestly enjoy talking to and sharing information with...My dealer has been supportive and his technical staff is second to none. So I will tell you first hand, that your experience is not representative of what I have found in the spa industry, particularly from Marquis. And there is no way any of this is good news...Good news would be all of us wishing you happy soaking, not happy shopping.....again.
Best of luck,
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Bohms,
I feel your pain especially hard in light of the fact that I visited the same store and talked with Jason who I think was your salesman. Ulimately we decided on another spa but Rix DID have a good reputation (not any more).
All that being said I wonder at times if forums such as these actually work to the detriment of the consumer. Its really easy to sit here and try to instigate an agressive response by the consumer but in the long run who really wins? The suggestion to stop the Amex payment was given to you by someone in this forum. The only thing I may have done differently would have been to wait a couple of more days before cancelling with Amex and definitely waiting for a response from Jeff Shaw. Certainly talking with a "mediary" could only have helped.
I just think that things have a habit of spiraling out of control...especially on an internet site where you sit there and read responses and most suggest that you get a credit or tell the spa dealer to come get the spa. Well they called you on it and the spa is gone. Don't get me wrong...I LOVE this site and all the dealers/consumers have offered me a great deal of help but sometimes decisions are personal and cooler heads at times need to prevail. Rix has been in business for MANY years and it sounds like both you and the dealer got stubborn and in the end NO ONE WINS! If it took another week or two Amex would still have allowed your chargeback and at least you would have exhausted all options. The other issue is you loved your Marquis tub and there is no other local Marquis dealer around here. Unfortunately you lose here as well.
In the end I would have done everything you did but wait a little longer to see if a reasonable solution could have been made. That would include SPEAKING to the owner of the store and Jeff Shaw. That also would mean perhaps the $1000 could be bargained. Perhaps $500 refund and a store credit, etc.
Lastly emails are nice but conversation is key. I also wonder if I would have opened this issue up in the Forum. I probably would have just to get some suggestions but you should take all our advice with a grain of salt! ;)
I wish you all the best in your continuing quest for Spatopia.
Marc
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Gores,
excellent advice with the grain of salt line. every post here is just personal opinon and folks need to understand and consider the source before taking anyones advice. However, I'm with the submitter on this. For me, the worst thing a salesperson can do is set false expectations. For me, it's unresonable to get a used tub, get the run around, and then expect to settle for something less. $150 store credit? that's worth what, $50 to the dealer and $150 to you. Not good enough for me. Floor model tubs have been reported to sell several hundred to thousands less than a new in wrapper tub.
Yup, the relationship with the dealer is soured. But fortunaltey there are many more tubs that are just as good, if not better than marquis. The dealer not only lost a sale, but gave those spa dollars to his competition and now has someone vocalizing a legit, negative experinece about them. The dealer should have jumped all over this and never let it get to this point. Never. His loss. :-/
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I can't believe the dealer would take back the spa without trying to resolve the situation. Although I don't have both sides of the story, it sounds like the customer was right in this situation.
As a sales person for Marquis Spas, I would have never let this situation get this far. The way I look at it, if I don't sell someone a Marquis and they buy a different product, I have done them a disservice.
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Thats one of the problems with Email and forums, everything becomes a knee jerk reaction and sometimes we need to sit back and let things digest.
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Gores - I wouldn't have had a problem waiting a couple more days, the dealer was the one that wanted to come and get it quickly. To be honest, I'm glad he did b/c I don't think I could have handled going back and forth with them any longer. The owner never wanted to get on the phone with me - he kept throwing it back to the Sales Mgr (Jason).
Markee - in the dealer's eyes, they DID try to resolve it by offering me a tub cleaning and the $150 gift certificate.
The reason why I posted on this forum was to see what other people thought.....mainly, just to see if we were crazy for getting so upset. My husband and I made our own decisions.....do I regret anything? NOT ONE THING!!!
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Gores - I wouldn't have had a problem waiting a couple more days, the dealer was the one that wanted to come and get it quickly. To be honest, I'm glad he did b/c I don't think I could have handled going back and forth with them any longer. The owner never wanted to get on the phone with me - he kept throwing it back to the Sales Mgr (Jason).
Markee - in the dealer's eyes, they DID try to resolve it by offering me a tub cleaning and the $150 gift certificate.
The reason why I posted on this forum was to see what other people thought.....mainly, just to see if we were crazy for getting so upset. My husband and I made our own decisions.....do I regret anything? NOT ONE THING!!!
Bohms,
While we wince at the entire situation, I for one think you handled things just fine based on what you've said. This is a dealer-to-customer issue, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the manufacturer or dealers in general. It sure sounds like they compounded one problem with another. I don't blame you for rejecting a $150 store credit 9and cleaning of the spa) but I also don't blame the dealer for rejecting the $1000 counter offer. It sure seems like they walked away quickly from a situation that they could have at least tried a little harder to resolve to some satisfaction on both sides before throwing their hands up. Was there further negotiation to get it somewhere in between or did they just tuck their tail in shame and decide to turn the page?
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The reason why I posted on this forum was to see what other people thought.....mainly, just to see if we were crazy for getting so upset. My husband and I made our own decisions.....do I regret anything? NOT ONE THING!!!
No you are not crazy!
I for one would not want to buy a used product for new prices.
Glad you are not second guessing your decision. I would not regret anything either. Good for you!!
Also, in times like these remember... Everything happens for a reason, this probably saved you later aggravation. You are better off knowing now, rather when you needed service down the road... The dealer really flubbed this one up good.
You will find a great spa dealer willing to take care of you and your service needs!
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Well Bohms, although we only know one side to this story, you are just as well off without a deceiptful dealer.
Mine told so many f***ing lies. The only truth was regarding the quality of the spa. His service is shit. I told him that I am a 45 minute drive away, he said no problem, Marquis pays me $85.00 per hour US to take care of warranty service - a bold face lie, they have a set price for standard repairs similar to an auto mechanic. I have a meeting with my lawyer next week (business stuff) and will bring this up.
Steve
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>:( :(This thread is such a disappointment. I would like to take "clips" all the way through it to make my points, but in the end, you are all losers. The spa you loved, the delivery with extreme difficulties, the willingness of others to HELP, the willingness of others to add fuel to the fire, the willingness of others to attack the dealer b/c he doesn’t sell their brand, the sincerity of some to invoke their silent powers to "go after" the dealer/owner/salesperson with "what I would do", the sticking it in their face, as they did to you or their lack of communication or misunderstanding, albeit the dealers, the salesman's, the manager's, the owner's, even the factory, PLEASE point out to me ONE WINNER in this scenario. Sledjunkie, drew, or others as well, who applaud the dealers loss, or is it your loss, you don't have the spa that you looked for, shopped for, wet tested and decided on, all because it was a 6 week old, "wet test" spa that apparently, according to some should be discounted in the thousands of dollars.
God Bless you all, and I hope and pray that everyone of you will buy your next BRAND NEW automobile, albeit it at the upper end of the luxury lines to the lower end of us commoners, from whatever manufacturer you choose with 000000 on the odometer.
The true winner here may be the dealer who never has with this type of customer that will forever relive this story again and again years into the future. This is best left behind for all parties involved, for they will all remember these lessons learned.
But, the second choice will never equal your first choice, the Marquis is truly an awesome spa that will never be enjoyed by you again, b/c of this chain of events.
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Bohms, did the dealer have any problems removing the spa? Did you say it was down stairs and a steep slope? Just curious.
I was hoping the dealer was going to make good on the deal. Good luck and let us know how the next purchase goes. I have to agree with spatech. Don't hold anything against the manufacturer. Marquis is top notch.
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Gombo did you read her updates? She said they took it down the rocky slope on pvc pipe or something like that and scratched up the side instead of doing the stairs.
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>:( :(This thread is such a disappointment. I would like to take "clips" all the way through it to make my points, but in the end, you are all losers. The spa you loved, the delivery with extreme difficulties, the willingness of others to HELP, the willingness of others to add fuel to the fire, the willingness of others to attack the dealer b/c he doesn’t sell their brand, the sincerity of some to invoke their silent powers to "go after" the dealer/owner/salesperson with "what I would do", the sticking it in their face, as they did to you or their lack of communication or misunderstanding, albeit the dealers, the salesman's, the manager's, the owner's, even the factory, PLEASE point out to me ONE WINNER in this scenario. Sledjunkie, drew, or others as well, who applaud the dealers loss, or is it your loss, you don't have the spa that you looked for, shopped for, wet tested and decided on, all because it was a 6 week old, "wet test" spa that apparently, according to some should be discounted in the thousands of dollars.
God Bless you all, and I hope and pray that everyone of you will buy your next BRAND NEW automobile, albeit it at the upper end of the luxury lines to the lower end of us commoners, from whatever manufacturer you choose with 000000 on the odometer.
The true winner here may be the dealer who never has with this type of customer that will forever relive this story again and again years into the future. This is best left behind for all parties involved, for they will all remember these lessons learned.
But, the second choice will never equal your first choice, the Marquis is truly an awesome spa that will never be enjoyed by you again, b/c of this chain of events.
Wow pretty harsh stuff! I hope I said it with more decorum! ;)
Again....bottom line is that EVERYONE here loses. I simply am shocked that cooler heads did not prevail and that someone could have mediated this to a better outcome for both dealer and consumer. I do think that both of you were guilty of being STUBBORN although I certainly don't blame you for anything you did. It's your money after all!
Bohms I would still try to get in touch with the big shot from Marquis or the guy on this board that offered to help. At the very least he should hear your story and perhaps help you find another Marquis dealer that you could purchase your spa from. Might be farther away but out of state dealer = no sales tax which would be nice!
Good luck.
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>:( :(This thread is such a disappointment. I would like to take "clips" all the way through it to make my points, but in the end, you are all losers. The spa you loved, the delivery with extreme difficulties, the willingness of others to HELP, the willingness of others to add fuel to the fire, the willingness of others to attack the dealer b/c he doesn’t sell their brand, the sincerity of some to invoke their silent powers to "go after" the dealer/owner/salesperson with "what I would do", the sticking it in their face, as they did to you or their lack of communication or misunderstanding, albeit the dealers, the salesman's, the manager's, the owner's, even the factory, PLEASE point out to me ONE WINNER in this scenario. Sledjunkie, drew, or others as well, who applaud the dealers loss, or is it your loss, you don't have the spa that you looked for, shopped for, wet tested and decided on, all because it was a 6 week old, "wet test" spa that apparently, according to some should be discounted in the thousands of dollars.
God Bless you all, and I hope and pray that everyone of you will buy your next BRAND NEW automobile, albeit it at the upper end of the luxury lines to the lower end of us commoners, from whatever manufacturer you choose with 000000 on the odometer.
The true winner here may be the dealer who never has with this type of customer that will forever relive this story again and again years into the future. This is best left behind for all parties involved, for they will all remember these lessons learned.
But, the second choice will never equal your first choice, the Marquis is truly an awesome spa that will never be enjoyed by you again, b/c of this chain of events.
Wow pretty harsh stuff! I hope I said it with more decorum! ;)
Again....bottom line is that EVERYONE here loses. I simply am shocked that cooler heads did not prevail and that someone could have mediated this to a better outcome for both dealer and consumer. I do think that both of you were guilty of being STUBBORN although I certainly don't blame you for anything you did. It's your money after all!
Bohms I would still try to get in touch with the big shot from Marquis or the guy on this board that offered to help. At the very least he should hear your story and perhaps help you find another Marquis dealer that you could purchase your spa from. Might be farther away but out of state dealer = no sales tax which would be nice!
Good luck.
In my opinion you're both missing the point. The fate of this whole situation was sealed the second the dealer let that used spa go out the door under the guise of it being new. Nothing they did from that point forward could make the situation right in my opinion. I for one would have demanded they remove the spa the second I realized it WASN'T WHAT I BOUGHT, regardless of what kind of credit they were offering back to me. Who wants to deal with an outfit that is dishonest and has only their own interests in mind? To lay ANY blame on Bohms, as if she did anything wrong, is extremely close-minded. After seeing that this sort of thing can happen I can only hope that when my tub arrives everything is EXACTLY AS THE DEAL WAS LAID OUT... which obviously wasn't the case here...
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I think Clover works for Rix. There's no way the dealer "Won" in this situation....they have a scratched up tub from yanking it down a rocky hill (who is going to buy that?), they have a dented cover lifter bar that their salesguy backed his van into in front of my house, and most importantly, they have a dissatisfied customer who has shared this story with neighbors, friends and family....some of whom are contemplating buying a tub.
Anyway, PG Rider got it right....bottom line is that the dealer gave me a used spa when we were lead to believe that it was new. I don't like deceitful people, so in the end, there was no need to deal with it any further.
I never said anything bad about Marquis. I thought it was a great tub. BUT....there are many other great tubs out there and I'm sure we'll find a great tub AND an honest dealer.
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>:( :(
This thread is such a disappointment....
you are all losers....
God Bless you all, and I hope and pray that everyone of you will buy your next BRAND NEW automobile, albeit it at the upper end of the luxury lines to the lower end of us commoners, from whatever manufacturer you choose with 000000 on the odometer.
The true winner here may be the dealer
Sigh.
Amazing. A consumer purchases an expesive product that when delivered is not what was represented. When the customer contacted the merchant, the merchant was deliquent in thier response, refused to provide straight forward answers, and did not offer a resonable alternative.
What would you have done? You're quick to call us losers, and preach, but you offer no answers, no suggestions or anything of value.
Your'e quick to forgive the dealer for deceitful practices, and even quicker to attack posters here for responding to the question.
Seems you're angry and frustrated about something...I don't know where the new car comment came from, but hopefully some day, maybe you'll too will be able to buy one. Here's a tip: The Drive thru station pays more than the French Fry station, so maybe ask your boss to give you a chance at the drive through. Then maybe you can afford a new car.
Anyhow, If you ever do, I hope the dealer doesn't send you a scracthed up lease vehichle, and charge you champage prices, but you probably wouldn't know any better.
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I'm with the previous 3 posters: The DEALER caused this whole situation by being DECEPTIVE (assuming the story is accurate). A dealer CANNOT lie to customers and expect to keep their business. I don't care if you're selling Marquis, HotSpring, SeaMonkey, BeanieBabies, or Pop Tarts: tell the truth and everything else will take care of itself.
Terminator
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I'm with the previous 3 posters: The DEALER caused this whole situation by being DECEPTIVE (assuming the story is accurate). A dealer CANNOT lie to customers and expect to keep their business. I don't care if you're selling Marquis, HotSpring, or SeaMonkey, BeanieBabies, or Pop Tarts: tell the truth and everything else will take care of itself.
Terminator
Exactly. The dealer should have been all over this like white on rice. Perhaps it was an oversight or miscommunication. But the dealer dropped the ball several times. In the world of business, this should not have ever happened. This shouldn't have even been an issue.
Hey, maybe instead of giving the dealer the full $9K for the tub, the customer says...$8400 is "close enough" and yea, I said I'd pay by the 12th, but you know what? I'll pay you in a few more weeks. That's fair too, right Clover? It's all good.
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Clover are you kidding? Can I interest you in a nice new bridge, lower manhattan never used?
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>:( :(This thread is such a disappointment. I would like to take "clips" all the way through it to make my points, but in the end, you are all losers. The spa you loved, the delivery with extreme difficulties, the willingness of others to HELP, the willingness of others to add fuel to the fire, the willingness of others to attack the dealer b/c he doesn’t sell their brand, the sincerity of some to invoke their silent powers to "go after" the dealer/owner/salesperson with "what I would do", the sticking it in their face, as they did to you or their lack of communication or misunderstanding, albeit the dealers, the salesman's, the manager's, the owner's, even the factory, PLEASE point out to me ONE WINNER in this scenario. Sledjunkie, drew, or others as well, who applaud the dealers loss, or is it your loss, you don't have the spa that you looked for, shopped for, wet tested and decided on, all because it was a 6 week old, "wet test" spa that apparently, according to some should be discounted in the thousands of dollars.
God Bless you all, and I hope and pray that everyone of you will buy your next BRAND NEW automobile, albeit it at the upper end of the luxury lines to the lower end of us commoners, from whatever manufacturer you choose with 000000 on the odometer.
The true winner here may be the dealer who never has with this type of customer that will forever relive this story again and again years into the future. This is best left behind for all parties involved, for they will all remember these lessons learned.
But, the second choice will never equal your first choice, the Marquis is truly an awesome spa that will never be enjoyed by you again, b/c of this chain of events.
I was wondering what the point was until the end. This isn't about Marquis but rather about a particular dealer so don't get all over everyone because you think it looks like a put down on your favorite spa brand. If Bohms had this same expereince with another brand I SERIUOSLY doubt you'd have made that same post.
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Clover are you kidding? Can I interest you in a nice new bridge, lower manhattan never used?
Out here in Boston, I've got a really nice, hardly used harbor tunnel for sale. ;)
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I don't see how the dealer comes out of this as a "winner". :-? I don't see ANY winners here - it all looks "lose-lose" to me. I wonder what Clover was smoking. . . :o
Initially, was it deceit on the part of the salesman, or was it just miscommunication? "So you want to purchase this spa?" could be interpreted as meaning "this spa right here on the floor that you just wet-tested", or it could mean "A new spa just like this one that you wet-tested". The salesman could be thinking the former, while the customer could be thinking the latter. At the best, it seems extremely sloppy on the salesman's part not to specify this exactly. Failing to rectify the situation immediately was the dealer's biggest mistake. I can't fathom how any rational businessman would make such a long chain of poor decisions. I just can't decide if this involved intentional deceit or abject incompetence.
How many potential customers are put off from this dealer because of this thread of posts? If I lived in that area, there's no way in Hell I'd buy anything from that dealer. That could also take Marquis off of my list, if there were no other local MQ dealers around. Multiply this by a number of customers, and you are talking about some real impact.
I think the dealer should get on here and come clean.
Regards,
Altazi
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I don't see how the dealer comes out of this as a "winner". :-? I don't see ANY winners here - it all looks "lose-lose" to me. I wonder what Clover was smoking. . . :o
Clover is just being unnecessarily defensive because it's a Marquis, though the brand type has no bearing on this. I guess you could say he's smoking Marquis Menthols.
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Just because this thread is 7 pages long, I thought I would tell you my opinion. First of all, the dealer made a huge error. He could have easily cleaned the tub before hand, put new filters in the spa, removed the Frog, cleaned the thing, and told the customer that they remove the wrapping prior to delivery for ease of just putting the wrapping in their dumpster instead of taking it back with them. No one would have even noticed. But the dealer is an idiot. He offered a $150 credit for his stupidity.
From what I read, the spa owner was not going to be happy without receiving a $1,000 discount. This amount seemed to be non-negotiable. I don’t think any dealer would give a $1,000 dollars off, quite honestly, even if their stupidity caused the problem. $1,000 is a lot off. Assuming that the amount was non-negotiable, the dealer did what he needed to do – he took the spa back as quickly as possible.
On another note, some dealers do remove the wrapping before delivering the spas and they are still brand spanking new and never had water in them. As I said earlier, dealers do this for convenience. So don’t read too much into a spa being delivered without any wrapping. It really is not that big of a deal
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>:( :(
This thread is such a disappointment....
you are all losers....
God Bless you all, and I hope and pray that everyone of you will buy your next BRAND NEW automobile, albeit it at the upper end of the luxury lines to the lower end of us commoners, from whatever manufacturer you choose with 000000 on the odometer.
The true winner here may be the dealer
Sigh.
Amazing. A consumer purchases an expesive product that when delivered is not what was represented. When the customer contacted the merchant, the merchant was deliquent in thier response, refused to provide straight forward answers, and did not offer a resonable alternative.
What would you have done? You're quick to call us losers, and preach, but you offer no answers, no suggestions or anything of value.
Your'e quick to forgive the dealer for deceitful practices, and even quicker to attack posters here for responding to the question.
Seems you're angry and frustrated about something...I don't know where the new car comment came from, but hopefully some day, maybe you'll too will be able to buy one. Here's a tip: The Drive thru station pays more than the French Fry station, so maybe ask your boss to give you a chance at the drive through. Then maybe you can afford a new car.
Anyhow, If you ever do, I hope the dealer doesn't send you a scracthed up lease vehichle, and charge you champage prices, but you probably wouldn't know any better.
I have no dog in this fight and there is no place in my post where I “defend or forgive” the dealers position, but reading the thread Bohms goes from a diligent adventuresome shopping experience through the excitement of water testing “spatopia”, to the degree of extreme difficulty getting it where it has to go, to the end resolve where communications breakdown and the spa is removed in what appears to be delight in the damage done. In no way am I defending the “dealer”, the salesperson, or the sales manager who botched up a relationship, but a complete breakdown of communication and trust on both sides that took place here. Certainly, it could have and should have been handled differently to a winning conclusion for all, but that chemistry did not prevail.
Stuart’s interest to intervene and attempt to influence things differently didn’t even seem to work, and the dealer seems to have come to a conclusion so as to not give a $h*t about how he got it out of there. Again, I see no winners here, and I can only assume things could have worked out differently with a better “up front” understanding and/or direct owner communication. I understand the spa was manufactured and delivered to the dealer within 6 weeks of this delivery and the spa had never been sold or delivered to anyone before this delivery. How used can a 6 week old spa be? New filters and pristine conditions should certainly be expected, as well as knowing what spa is to be delivered.
A “reasonable” alternative is certainly a subject of conjecture. Amounts of $150 to $3,000 have been bantered about, which one is reasonable.
Deceitful practices that you imply indicate the dealer, the sales person and the sales manager were all in collusion to defraud the consumer intentionally misleading and lying to them or not telling the “whole” truth, this is presumptive for us to determine or discuss b/c we don’t know all parts of the story, or all of the facts, but it is very clear, Bohms is very upset and disappointed and the primary source of communication prior to deliver was with a salesperson before anyone else got involved. It is extremely unfortunate this scenario turned out as it did when it could have been different. I wonder what new spa will replace this one and how easily it will be delivered and then again, at what cost?
As for automobiles, I have never known of one that was not driven before it finds its way into the hands of the end user. Odometer readings seem to vary from double digit readings under 100, to triple digit readings over 100 and they are sold to happy customers that purchase what is sold as a “new car”, but previously driven.
I really see no need for you to be demeaning or denigrating to me in your comments. Maybe it is just within your character to do so. There seems to be a lot of “slam dancing” here by aggressive keyboards.
As for, “What would you have done? You're quick to call us losers, and preach, but you offer no answers, no suggestions or anything of value. I only point out there are no winners here. What I would do is irrelevant, but I can tell you this, I wouldn’t be asking you for your opinion as to what I should do, much less even discuss it with you. Bohms is the only person here truly affected and that is disappointing. I think she should seek out the #1 hot tub advertised here and have it clearly stated to be “new in the wrapper” and “Free delivery included” up front and written on the contract. Now there is my “suggestion” or “comment of value” that you goad me for
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Clover - yes, you are right. There was some pleasure in the fact that they scratched up the tub trying to get it out of here. Maybe they'll learn their lesson and not lie to their customers. I know we learned our lesson....make sure everything is written out on the contract and all boxes are checked.
I don't care if the tub was only used as a "wet test" model for 6 weeks or 6 months, if it's hooked up and the pumps are running and people are getting in and out of it, then in my eyes, it's USED, NOT NEW.
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I was wondering what the point was until the end. This isn't about Marquis but rather about a particular dealer so don't get all over everyone because you think it looks like a put down on your favorite spa brand. If Bohms had this same expereince with another brand I SERIUOSLY doubt you'd have made that same post.
I am so sorry to mislead you and I really don't see how I did that Spatech t.u.o. but I do not own, sell or in any way represent Marquis Spas, nor is it my fovorite brand. I am simply making a statement that has repeatedlty been stated on this forum. I have no dog in this fight.
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Clover - yes, you are right. There was some pleasure in the fact that they scratched up the tub trying to get it out of here. Maybe they'll learn their lesson and not lie to their customers. I know we learned our lesson....make sure everything is written out on the contract and all boxes are checked.
I don't care if the tub was only used as a "wet test" model for 6 weeks or 6 months, if it's hooked up and the pumps are running and people are getting in and out of it, then in my eyes, it's USED, NOT NEW.
Thank you for your kind words and I hape all turns out well for you. We do become wiser with every experience and every day we live. I do apreciate and understand your situation and your experience has been dissappointing for all of us, but mostly for you. I just know this turned into a bad situation that resulted in anger for each and every individual in this dog fight and I am sure that accounts for more than 10 people. Without exception, there were lessons learned.
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Excuse me Clover, but perhaps I misinterpeted your statement "you are all losers". In the context of your post, I took that as to be directed towards the members of this forum. Perhaps "You are BOTH loosers" might have been a better turn of words. Your chiding of being disapointed with this thread, also alluded to a negative impression of all the contributing posters. Since you called me out by name, I took your odd, slighted remarks personaly.
But i will point out, that you accused the posters of "attacking" the dealer, and wanting retribution in the "thousandS"
and tossed out a slight jab when you said the only "winner" was the dealer.
I disagree.
The dealer took a big hit here. It's frustrating because it didn't need to be that way. As Steve said, a dealer could have handled this many different ways and left the customer feeling good about the whole deal, but in a move of complete incompetence, or perhaps in a defensive, knee jerk reaction to being caught with his pants down, really dropped the ball.
Your analogy to a car was also incorrect. As the industry standard for automobiles is that there are some miles on even the newest of cars (luxary cars or not). That is not the case with Spas. As many will tell you, a new spa comes wrapped up and wasn't used on the floor. You may not know that, but the dealer certainly does. Scratched steps, dirty filters, marked up cabinet? That's unaceptable. That's not a new spa.
Your quip at being a "commoner" suggest that many here may feel they are superior also doens't come off in the freindliest of ways. If you belive that ensuring the product be new and in proper condition makes me an elitist, then so be it. Don't serve me chuck, and tell me it's filet. And by all means, don't charge me for filet. Yea, we are elitist. ::)
This was a poorly handled sale and the way the dealer removed the tub suggests that they are indeed incompetent.
The oringal poster will get a new spa from another dealer, and probably another manufactuer. And I'll bet dollars to donuts they'll be just as thrilled, or even more so with their new "awesome" spa than before. The dealer however lost the sale, increased his comptetiors sales, has a used damaged tub, and for what it's worth, negative reivews on one of the more popular spa sites.
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>:( :(
This thread is such a disappointment....
you are all losers....
God Bless you all, and I hope and pray that everyone of you will buy your next BRAND NEW automobile, albeit it at the upper end of the luxury lines to the lower end of us commoners, from whatever manufacturer you choose with 000000 on the odometer.
The true winner here may be the dealer
I really see no need for you to be demeaning or denigrating to me in your comments. Maybe it is just within your character to do so. There seems to be a lot of “slam dancing” here by aggressive keyboards.
It seems that the comment of calling everyone, who posted on this thread, losers is why comments were directed at you personally.
The dealer a winner??? :-/
I would say more, but would only echo what drewstar and other members have so eloquently stated in rebuttal to your postings clover. So, I will only say to them "Well said."
Bohms will have her a NEW spa and end up with a better dealer, no matter what brand she/they go with!
Now I have to go check on my NEW Grandee that was delivered on time this morning, and is now filling with water 8-)
I must say our purchase, delivery and set up has gone very smooth... :)
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As an employee owner of Marquis Spas, even I lost in this situation :(
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NW Hot Tubber - congrats on your new purchase....ENJOY!!!
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Clover - yes, you are right. There was some pleasure in the fact that they scratched up the tub trying to get it out of here. Maybe they'll learn their lesson and not lie to their customers. I know we learned our lesson....make sure everything is written out on the contract and all boxes are checked.
I don't care if the tub was only used as a "wet test" model for 6 weeks or 6 months, if it's hooked up and the pumps are running and people are getting in and out of it, then in my eyes, it's USED, NOT NEW.
To clarify terminology, I agree you they did not deliver to you what you purchased. You purchased a NEW spa, not a DEMONONSTRATOR or a FLOOR MODEL. they did not deliver to you a USED spa. A USED spa, to use the car industry as the model, is a spa that has been owned by another customer.
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Clearing up the car analogy (at least imo)...
A car that has been "test driven" would not be referred to as used.
However, a previous demo or leased vehicle would be considered used, and being discounted as such.
Although, the auto to spa analogy is not really an apples to apples analogy.
The spa would be different (imo) because once they are on the floor and full of water, the components have to be running just as an in home situation. Therefore, more use of the pumps, heater, etc. It would be a demo model.
Now, when we had our spa delivered this morning, they tipped it up on it's side and water ran out of the drains... this was from testing at the factory, did they test the pumps, heater, etc... sure, and that is still considered new (and I would want it tested in that manner).
Our spa was wrapped up like Fort Knox! Exactly what I expected, since I ordered and paid for a NEW spa! I would not want it delivered without wrapping and padding due to what you have to do to get them in the right spot. From the salesperson, dealer and delivery guys could not have been better at this point. When spending that much on a luxury item you really should expect nothing less. We even had drinks and hors d'oeuvres served while shopping :D
Bohms, Thanks! You too will find the right dealer and spa soon to begin your Spatopia! 8-)
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speakig of the wrapping....I would have been thrilled if my dealer took the wrapper and all the packing material off. I hate ripping up the boxes and such.
My wife and I love internet shopping, but the shipping boxes...argh. The person who can come up with a better shipping container/method/material will be considered a hero in my home.
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speakig of the wrapping....I would have been thrilled if my dealer took the wrapper and all the packing material off. I hate ripping up the boxes and such.
Oregon Hot Spring Spas finished up the top notch buying experience with unwrapping and taking all the trash with them! We didn't have to do a thing, except watch. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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speakig of the wrapping....I would have been thrilled if my dealer took the wrapper and all the packing material off. I hate ripping up the boxes and such.
Oregon Hot Spring Spas finished up the top notch buying experience with unwrapping and taking all the trash with them! We didn't have to do a thing, except watch. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I hate to be watched. It makes me nervous and I get performance anxiety.
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I hate to be watched. It makes me nervous and I get performance anxiety.
These guys were confident, didn't hinder the performance at all ;D [smiley=laugh.gif]
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I hate to be watched. It makes me nervous and I get performance anxiety.
Hey, Spatech, be glad you won't be delivering my spa. I will be documenting the entire process with video and still pictures - just in case, of course :)
Hope for the best, and plan for the worst.
Regards,
Altazi
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I just read the entire nine pages and it appears the whole thing was a bad experience for everyone involved. When I ordered my Sundance Spa I was told 2-3 weeks before delivery and later found that it would be 4-6 weeks. I was bummed because I was ready to soak now, and would have gladly accepted a floor model instead of waste 6 weeks of soaking time waiting. But when the spa came and I watched them unwrap everything and put the new filter in and tell me everything about it, it was worth the wait. They also helped me remove all the warning decals and took all the wrapping paper and boxes with them, including all the plastic wrapping for the manuals and other stuff.
It's too bad that your first tub caused you so much grief, I just hope it doesn't tarnish your feelings about owning a spa.............
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I hate to be watched. It makes me nervous and I get performance anxiety.
Maybe if you have your wife turn off the lights first?
;) :) ::)
/ducks and runs.
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When I ordered my Sundance Spa I was told 2-3 weeks before delivery and later found that it would be 4-6 weeks. I was bummed because I was ready to soak now, and would have gladly accepted a floor model instead of waste 6 weeks of soaking time waiting. But when the spa came and I watched them unwrap everything and put the new filter in and tell me everything about it, it was worth the wait.
I'm hoping for a similar experience! I was told four weeks for my Optima; tomorrow will mark the five week point with no updates or delivery date in sight. I'm HOPING that things comes wrapped tight because I want to know beyond the shadow of a doubt that it's new! If not wrapped at least have the stickers stuck in the shell... :)
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WOW! :o
Have I been missing out.
Bohm, you handled it quite well IMHO. You were patient (like you should have been) at first but, didn't receive the proper responses.
Before you know it you'll be sitting in your new tub and hopefully look back on this and simply laugh.
I am amazed as well as intrigued at how certain dealers handle situations so differently. Very interesting.
Which brings me to this: Term, please open a store by me! ;)
Personally, I've learned very much from this forum. It's a shame I have yet to purchase a tub. However, I have been saving $$$$, folks.
Skellman