Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Augustus on September 26, 2006, 04:44:25 pm
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Sunbelt Spas' manufacturing facility is located here in Houston and they will sell direct to the public at this location. Sunbelt has a spa that appears to fit my needs perfectly, but I haven't wet tested it yet. I'll save further judgement until after I've done so.
The other spas currently on my radar are:
HS Grandee
Sundance Optima
Artesian Piper Glen
There isn't much information available on Sunbelt from the research that I've done. I've toured their facility and talked with them indepth about the quality of their product, but being a spa novice, I'm still a bit reluctant. They claim to use the same equipment that most of the high-end spa builders use. Claim to use the "heatlock" insulation method. Equipment warranty is 5 years, with the last 2 years being 50%. The sound system is a Sony unit with transducers (no external speakers).
If purchased at the Houston plant, the price is pretty reasonable.
Other than the dealers here, who don't have any intimate knowledge of the Sunbelt product, are there any owners who can comment on first-hand experience?
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Did ya do any research while touring their facility and talking indepthly with them????
I'm confused, but then maybe I'm just in a temporary state of mind :-/
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Did ya do any research while touring their facility and talking indepthly with them????
I'm confused, but then maybe I'm just in a temporary state of mind :-/
Shouldn't be confusing...I'm looking for end-user input on Sunbelt Spas, not dealer/manufacturer sales speak.
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Ouch.
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My first spa was a Sunbelt - the Polaris model, I believe it was called, with a lounger. It was very comfortable, had a lot of jets - (33, I think), one 2-speed pump - but the heater wouldn't work if it was on high, if I remember correctly. There was no circulation pump, which I didn't really miss since it was my first spa. I had it for three years, until we sold our house and the new owners bought it, and never had any problems with it. When I was in the market to get another spa for our new house I considered a Sunbelt and spoke to the dealer here - it sounded like maybe there had been some changes made to their spas, not really sure though because we never did go look at them. The Sunbelt dealer was about an hour from us so we looked at different brands with more local dealers and bought from one of those.
One thing I clearly remember is that my electric bill was not significantly affected by the Sunbelt spa, whereas my current spa caused a huge increase in my electric usage.
Any other questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Oh, by the way - my sister and her husband also have a Sunbelt - they got it a year before me. Right after the warranty expired the filter housing broke so they had to replace that - but they never had any other problems with theirs, as far as I know. I believe the model they have is the Andromeda - it's a big one.
Susan
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Did ya do any research while touring their facility and talking indepthly with them????
I'm confused, but then maybe I'm just in a temporary state of mind :-/
Shouldn't be confusing...I'm looking for end-user input on Sunbelt Spas, not dealer/manufacturer sales speak.
Talk to Term, he has lots of info on Sunbelt...
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One thing I clearly remember is that my electric bill was not significantly affected by the Sunbelt spa, whereas my current spa caused a huge increase in my electric usage.
Any other questions, I'd be happy to answer them. Oh, by the way - my sister and her husband also have a Sunbelt - they got it a year before me. Right after the warranty expired the filter housing broke so they had to replace that - but they never had any other problems with theirs, as far as I know. I believe the model they have is the Andromeda - it's a big one.
Susan, the model that I'm considering is the Andromeda. I prefer the "wave series" jet arrangement, which includes the Wave Seat. At least I think I do...haven't wet tested yet. Does the Andromeda seem to be a smart, functional design for your sister, after having lived with it for a few years? Is your sister in Houston? If so, how is Sunbelt on warranty issues?
Thanks!
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By the way, Sunbelt told me that in Houston it would increase my electric bill between $15-20/mo. to use the Andromeda 30 minutes per day.
Here's the Andromeda:
http://www.sunbeltspas.com/modules/cachedimageservice.axd?data=3a7e1c2b-4069-4b73-8218-cd889b2a0aec&format=1
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Since your in a warm climate, the Sunbelt may not be a bad fit for you. A number of local dealers around the country will buy the Sunbelt shells and then put in whatever jets you want. In most cases, the cheaper the jets the more profit the dealership makes off you so I guess the quality of the jet's really depends on the dealer you get them from. While it is true that Somebelt themselves can also place the jets in the tub for you from the factory most dealers don't order them that way (so as to retain the most profit possible). The thermal pane insulation method that Sunbelt uses is not really good (in my opinion) so it's not surprising to hear that others have had expensive electricity bills if they live in a colder climate. IMHO, when you buy a Sunbelt Spa, you get EXACTLY what you pay for (most of them can be had for under $5K or $6K but they all will cost you more to run). It's a pay me now or play me later option. I personally decided to spend about $2K more and got a nice name-brand spa of similar size but with greater warranty and nice finish and higher-end electronics, and controls and... you get the idea. Spend $4,500 for a 450gallon Sunbelt with stereo or spend $6,500 for a Jacuzzi J-370 with stereo. Seemed like a no-brianer to me. Continue your research. I think you will come to a similar conclusion. Good luck and I hope this post helps!
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Since your in a warm climate, the Sunbelt may not be a bad fit for you. A number of local dealers around the country will buy the Sunbelt shells and then put in whatever jets you want. In most cases, the cheaper the jets the more profit the dealership makes off you so I guess the quality of the jet's really depends on the dealer you get them from. While it is true that Somebelt themselves can also place the jets in the tub for you from the factory most dealers don't order them that way (so as to retain the most profit possible).
As I've indicated, should I buy a Sunbelt unit, I would purchase directly from the factory, so all of this would be of no concern to me.
The thermal pane insulation method that Sunbelt uses is not really good (in my opinion) so it's not surprising to hear that others have had expensive electricity bills if they live in a colder climate.
Who said people in colder climates have higher electric bills due to Sunbelt's design? I never said that. I've heard other people indicate that Sunbelt and Sundance's in-ground units cost significantly more to operate in colder climates.
IMHO, when you buy a Sunbelt Spa, you get EXACTLY what you pay for (most of them can be had for under $5K or $6K but they all will cost you more to run). It's a pay me now or play me later option.
How do you figure the Sunbelt will cost more to run? $15-20/mo seems about right to me. Even the HS dealer told me to expect $15/mo on the Grandee.
Also, what would make other manufacturers electronics, warranties, etc., superior to Sunbelt's?
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What price were you quoted for the Sunbelt? If price wasn't an object I would pesonally go with your other choices. The Optima, Grandee and the Piper Glen are Premium spas. I don't think the Sunbelt is in the same league. :)
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I don't think the Sunbelt is in the same league.
That's just it...everything that I've read that was first-hand info, albeit pretty limited, seems to suggest that Sunbelt makes a good product. Sunbelt employees indicate that their spas are high-end and are intended to compete with HS, Sundance, etc.
Part of the reason why I started this thread is to find out why people like yourself think that Sunbelt spas aren't in the same league as the big boys. Specifically, what makes them a lesser quality product?
Price is not an object, but I don't want to spend significantly more money on something than I need to. I can get the Adromeda loaded for $7,000. The other 3 spas on my radar will cost me $10,000.
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Augustus,
My sister lives in NJ, which is where I lived when I had my Sunbelt spa. If I remember correctly, their Andromeda cost them $5,000, which is exactly what I paid for the Polaris a year later, which is exactly what the Sunbelt dealer here in PA quoted me for several models a year ago when I was shopping for our second spa. The Andromeda is a really nice spa, lots of different seats and a large footwell. They have grandchildren who love to "swim" in the spa, and regularly had several people in it (grown kids and their friends). As far as warranty issues, the dealer that we each got our Sunbelt from went out of business a few years ago, but until their filter housing broke I don't believe they had any issues that required warranty service. And when that broke last year it was out of warranty, but they ordered the part from Sunbelt and installed it themselves.
The Sunbelt was much CHEAPER to operate here in the northeast (ie, electricity) than the Sundance I have now, which has a different insulation system (supposed to be better??) and cost twice as much. I have no regrets getting the Sundance - it's bigger, has a microclean filter which never has to be cleaned, and I like the finish that I got with the Sundance better than the one I had on the Sunbelt - actually, my husband liked the looks of the Sundance better (he never uses the spa) - I just wanted hot water to soak in!!!
I'm sure that Sunbelt made changes (for the better, I'm sure) to their spas and jets since my sister and I bought ours in 2000 and 2001, so it's hard for me to say what they're like now, but I was happy with mine - having never had a spa before that one, and my sister and her husband are equally happy with theirs. I would have been just as happy to get a new Sunbelt and save money, but my husband insisted on getting the Sundance because the dealer is so close.
Hope this helps - if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask!!!!
Susan
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The other three spas you mentioned are leaps and bounds better than Sunbelt.
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The other three spas you mentioned are leaps and bounds better than Sunbelt.
Why?
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I'd lke to know why, too. Everyone has their "list" here of premium spas, but there is no concrete info on why. Is it because those are the dealers and owners represented here? Is it because we get used to the same names popping up over an over again, and assume that others less known are minor league?
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I'll tell you one thing I did not like on the Sunbelt were the jets in my back. They are not recessed so when you sit in the spa, you can fell the jets. Quite uncomfortable. When I tested Hot Spring after that, it was a world of difference. They recess their jets so you feel the water, not the jet. My opinion here, but Sunbelt just did not seem as well built. Hot Spring just seemed tighter.
Good Luck
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I'll tell you one thing I did not like on the Sunbelt were the jets in my back. They are not recessed so when you sit in the spa, you can fell the jets.
You are correct. The jets aren't recessed in the Sunbelt, which could be a problem for me. I'll know more after the wet test.
Where did you test the Sunbelt at?
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Filtration is one big concern for me when looking at Sunbelt. Where are the specs. on it? What kind of ozone is it that comes with the Andromeda Wave?
The tub looks like it can fit 8 people, but the seats are also very restrictive-looking. There doesn't appear to be any type of good foot-massage, nor any kind of jet variety. Basically you're changing from the seat with a little massage to a seat with more.
From what I know of Sunbelt Spas, I'm comfortable in saying you'd be much better off with the Sundance, Aresian, or Hot Spring for a lot longer.
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Filtration is one big concern for me when looking at Sunbelt. Where are the specs. on it? What kind of ozone is it that comes with the Andromeda Wave?
The tub looks like it can fit 8 people, but the seats are also very restrictive-looking. There doesn't appear to be any type of good foot-massage, nor any kind of jet variety. Basically you're changing from the seat with a little massage to a seat with more.
From what I know of Sunbelt Spas, I'm comfortable in saying you'd be much better off with the Sundance, Aresian, or Hot Spring for a lot longer.
It doesn't sound like you know much. About the only point you've made is the lack of jet variety. I'll keep that in mind when I wet test. Other than that, though, it just sounds like you're talking down on a brand which you know very little about.
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I don't know much about Pintos, either, but I suppose if you're content in giving one a test drive, feel free. I'll still say the Cadillac's a much better option.
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I don't know much about Pintos, either, but I suppose if you're content in giving one a test drive, feel free. I'll still say the Cadillac's a much better option.
That's cute, but it isn't a comparable analogy.
You've clearly illustrated in this thread how some members of this forum have a tendancy to talk out of their rear-ends.
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Augustus, let us know how the wet test goes. Getting a spa that fits you the best is very important. If it were me, I would still wet test the other models just to validate your decision.
Don't let it bother you that most folks are not familiar with Sunbelt spas. There are a ton of smaller manufactures out there that most of us are not familiar with. What's good about going with a larger manufacturer (Sundance, Hotspring, Marquis, Caldera, Arctic, Artesian, Jacuzzi, D1, Colman, etc.) is that they have a proven track record. Some of the smaller companies aren't quite as supportive a few years down the road when you need warrantee service. Just my two cents. Good luck.
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What's good about going with a larger manufacturer (Sundance, Hotspring, Marquis, Caldera, Arctic, Artesian, Jacuzzi, D1, Colman, etc.) is that they have a proven track record.
Anyone have an idea of how many units the "larger" manufacturers are producing a year?
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Talk to Term, he has lots of info on Sunbelt...
Tis true, tis true...but alas, I am but a HotSpring salesman and my opinion and experience is not welcome..... so I shall defer and say a prayer for those destined to succumb to the Dark Side.... :'(
Terminator
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So you are saying it would be "unfair" for you to compare a HS to a sunbelt? ::)
We don't want to offend here simply based on such things as price, quality, and your experience. that would be...well...um.. you stating your proffesional opinion. We'll have none of that here! Good lord, next thing you know you might actaully recomend folks to consider buying your product!
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Talk to Term, he has lots of info on Sunbelt...
Tis true, tis true...but alas, I am but a HotSpring salesman and my opinion and experience is not welcome..... so I shall defer and say a prayer for those destined to succumb to the Dark Side.... :'(
Terminator
So anything not HS is on the dark side? I guess if you're going to be closeminded, might as well do it all the way...... :-/
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Tis true, tis true...but alas, I am but a HotSpring salesman and my opinion and experience is not welcome..... so I shall defer and say a prayer for those destined to succumb to the Dark Side.... :'(
Terminator
So anything not HS is on the dark side? I guess if you're going to be closeminded, might as well do it all the way...... :-/
Relax Anne....hop into that nice, well-made spa you own and just relax a bit. :)
To elaborate on my first statement for those who may have overly active interpretive skills, let me be more specific in the interest of openmindedness:
HotSpring is a wonderful brand of spa. In fact, they are the world's most popular spa. Perhaps they are not the best spa for everyone out there. That's OK as there are several other very well-made respectable spa companies. I have gained a great deal of experience over the years dealing with not only the HS brands, but other brands as well. Some of them are very, very nice spas worthy of ownership. On the flip side of the coin, there are many, many spas that aren't worth spit. In my experience (and EVERYONES is different), Sunbelt falls into the dark side of the industry.
I'll try to be more elaborate in the future to avoid any misinterpretations. That was my fault and I'll do better next time. :)
Terminator
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On the flip side of the coin, there are many, many spas that aren't worth spit. In my experience (and EVERYONES is different), Sunbelt falls into the dark side of the industry.
What sort of experience do you have with Sunbelt?
Specifically, what is it about the Sunbelt product that places the brand in the "dark side of the industry?"
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Other than the dealers here, who don't have any intimate knowledge of the Sunbelt product, are there any owners who can comment on first-hand experience?
I reckon I don't violate your prerequisite as I do have fairly intimate knowledge of their product, so I'll be happy to answer your question.
During the course of time that I have been in this industry, we have had to deal surrogately with Sunbelt on occasion. This is usually involving irate customers who come to us seeking help for their broken Sunbelt spa, trying to find replacement parts, trying to find a filter, trying to fix broken pump junctions, etc. Many of their complaints are dealer oriented, a great many of their complaints are product oriented. Poorly, poorly insulated spa. Thin, flimsy fiberglass shells that warp, bubble, and crack. Exposed plumbing vulnerable to vermin. We haul a great many of these spas to the dump every year as they have sold a lot of spas in this territory, naturally.
I have some pictures I've posted before and will be happy to do so again if you'd like.
They are what they are: a cheap, assembled spa virtually identical to dozens of other spas sold under various names. That's it. :)
I have to go do a pre-site inspection, but I'll be back after awhile if anyone needs more information.
Terminator
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Relax Anne....hop into that nice, well-made spa you own and just relax a bit. :)
To elaborate on my first statement for those who may have overly active interpretive skills, let me be more specific in the interest of openmindedness:
HotSpring is a wonderful brand of spa. In fact, they are the world's most popular spa. Perhaps they are not the best spa for everyone out there. That's OK as there are several other very well-made respectable spa companies. I have gained a great deal of experience over the years dealing with not only the HS brands, but other brands as well. Some of them are very, very nice spas worthy of ownership. On the flip side of the coin, there are many, many spas that aren't worth spit. In my experience (and EVERYONES is different), Sunbelt falls into the dark side of the industry.
I'll try to be more elaborate in the future to avoid any misinterpretations. That was my fault and I'll do better next time. :)
Terminator
Soory. I re-read your post, and I misinterpreted the first time. Since you referred to HS, I thought you were putting all non-HS in one group. My bad. :P
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It's OK, I've misinterpreted a few comments on here myself from time to time! :D
Your friend,
Terminator
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Poorly, poorly insulated spa.
Sunbelt uses the "heat lock" system, as many other manufacturers use who are considered top-tier. I watched a Sunbelt spa in production and I don't think your claim of being poorly insulated is valid.
Thin, flimsy fiberglass shells that warp, bubble, and crack.
I can't comment on the thickness of the shell, as I don't have any way of doing a true comparison, but after sitting in the Sunbelt units dry, I didn't notice anything that would lead me to believe that the shell was "flimsy."
Exposed plumbing vulnerable to vermin.
This is simply not true. The plumbing of a Sunbelt spa is no more exposed than that of what most around here consider to be the top-tier brands.
They are what they are: a cheap, assembled spa virtually identical to dozens of other spas sold under various names. That's it.
Again, not sure what you mean by "cheap." They use the same materials and equipment in their spas that the "top-tier" guys use. And they aren't "virtually identical" to any other spa. I understand what you are insinuating here, but you are off-base.
I'm certainly not a Sunbelt apologist, so don't take my comments that way, but I get irritated when people make the sort of comments that you're making about another company's products, then can't provide any legitimate reasoning when called on the carpet.
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I think it's time Term posts his photographic evidence...
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Again, not sure what you mean by "cheap." They use the same materials and equipment in their spas that the "top-tier" guys use. And they aren't "virtually identical" to any other spa. I understand what you are insinuating here, but you are off-base.
I'm certainly not a Sunbelt apologist, so don't take my comments that way, but I get irritated when people make the sort of comments that you're making about another company's products, then can't provide any legitimate reasoning when called on the carpet.
Que the theme from The Beverly Hillbillies.......
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC00920.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/Picture341.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC00921.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC00924.jpg)
This is how most of the Sunbelt Spas look that we haul off. This one was only 3 years old. Granted, the rodent infestation was severe on this one. They got in through a gap between the shell and the cabinet.
If you like Sunbelt and it's the spa for you, by all means buy it. I'm simply offering examples of my experience with them and could care less what you or anyone else buys. I hope everyone on here gets a good spa that will last them a lot longer than 3 years. My customers sure do!:)
Terminator
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Augustus, have you wet tested yet? If not, you should do so soon, just to make sure that your enthusiasm is still well placed. It sounds like everything great you learned about Sunbelt has come from it reps, not an objective source. You admitted that your own research didn't reveal much about Sunbelt, so wisely you came here to ask around. Why did you ask for others' experience if you are just going to defend Sunbelt no matter what you are told here? Term seems to have dealt with these spas once people have owned them for a while- that seems like really valuable information to me. You have gotten a little good feed back and a moderate amound of bad feedback on this brand of spa. Take it for what it is worth, but it is rude to get on Term's case when he is just telling you what he has seen. Have you ever seen a 7 year old sunbelt?
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The spa shown in the pics above either isn't a Sunbelt spa at all, or it isn't a "3-year old" Sunbelt.
anne, Terminator has done nothing but spread misinformation about a competitor's product. That's exactly what I didn't want in this thread.
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Augustus, as usual I'm agreeing with Anne and now Term. I think his info is solid as he has no vested interest in what you buy (unless you're in his immediate territory). I was thinking about a HydroSpa early on until both of their dealers in metro Chicago dropped THEM. Did I continue to think they were the type of company I wanted to deal with when they would no longer have any representation in a 7mm person market? Maybe I prejudged, but I went the safer route and went with what I thought to be a reliable brand with a good dealer available to me if anything does go wrong or to answer my questions promptly rather than dealing with an 800 phone line.
By the Term, I hope not all 3 year spas look like that. GROSS!! I hope mine will look cleaner than that when it's 10 years old!
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Augustus,
We own one of the "less mass marketed" spas on the market, a Bullfrog
Term has never once come out and slammed a Bullfrog tub because I believe he either has limited knowledge of Bullfrog or he recognises a quality product. What I'm trying to say is that he is attempting to provide you with his expierences and knowledge of the industry and not just slamming Sunbelt because its not a Hot Spring.
I have never seen a post from him that could not be substantiated.
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I have never seen a post from him that could not be substantiated.
Well, you've seen your first. The information that he provided above regarding Sunbelt's product was false, for the most part.
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I wouldn't go that far In Canada. On another thread, Term just stated that a fried Twinkie is the "best dessert ever concocted"!! Now he has gone way too far! I would recommend banning him from any further posts.
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I wouldn't go that far In Canada. On another thread, Term just stated that a fried Twinkie is the "best dessert ever concocted"!! Now he has gone way too far! I would recommend banning him from any further posts.
Hey, I thought they looked really good, he just posted the recipe and I'm going to try it, of course I will have to sneak the twinkies past the wife ;D ;D
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Thank ya'll for your support of me and I do appreciate it!
Mr. Augustus, unless you work for Sunbelt (which I assume you don't....at this point), I'd daresay I have more experience with their spas than you do. As I say, we haul a good many of them to the dump year after year after year. It's funny, we've never had to do that with a HotSpring Spa.
The customer who's spa is picture above bought the Sunbelt Spa in 2001 from his wife's cousin, who is the local Sunbelt dealer. He actually shopped me first, decided our spas cost too much, and that he could get a better deal from his In-Law. The spa rapidly deteriorated, his cousin-in-law would not rectify the situation, so he came back to us in 2004 wanting to see about a trade-in for a 2001 Tiger River Siberian. I told him we would haul the spa off for free. When our guys came by to show me the spa, I called the customer and asked him if I could keep the spa on my deck sitting next to a 21-year old HotSpring Jetsetter for comparison purposes. He said absolutely and even brought me a copy of the original paperwork.
I will have to look for it, but if I can't find it, I will contact my customer and get it, scan it, and post it for your pleasure.
By the way, he truly loves his 2001 Siberian. His daughter's dog chewed up one of the corners, but he called us and we went and fixed it that week.
I finally had them haul the old Sunbelt Spa off because I did not want anyone to assume that it was one of our spas.
Sorry, but they're crap! But by all means, feel free to buy one and update us 3 years from now. I'd be interested to see the results. :)
Terminator
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I wouldn't go that far In Canada. On another thread, Term just stated that a fried Twinkie is the "best dessert ever concocted"!! Now he has gone way too far! I would recommend banning him from any further posts.
Yeah, I bet that he cannot prove that it is the best. Dont we thrash people here for posting opinion as fact? I'll put my swirled cholocate cheesecake up against his fried twinkie anyday. Darned carnie food- how uncouth.
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Sorry, but they're crap! But by all means, feel free to buy one and update us 3 years from now. I'd be interested to see the results.
Again, I'm no Sunbelt apologist, so don't interpret my comments here as such. I'm not even sure, at this point, if Sunbelt has a product that fits my needs.
That being said, let's just assume for a minute that the spa you pictured is a Sunbelt spa, although it doesn't even remotely resemble a modern Sunbelt unit. Why does the fact that an animal chewed up the plumbing make the spa "crap?"
First, you said it was "rodent infestation," now you claim it "rapidly deteriorated." So you have one anecdotal story about a Sunbelt spa that an animal chewed up and somehow that qualifies you to slam their products and spread one false claim after another? C'mon, man.
By the way, you never addressed the points I made earlier in this thread in response to your claims. You know, the ones about the "poor insulation," the "exposed plumbing," etc.
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Darned carnie food- how uncouth.
Good one Anne ;D
But sometimes its alot of fun to go slumming ;)
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Yeah, sometimes a corn dog and a beer can easily go up against the finest seared ahi and a nice pinot grigio.......sometimes.
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Augustus, have you wet tested a Sunbelt spa yet? I'm assuming your factory connection may not have any spas setup for wet testing.
I wouldn't fret over this unless you really fell in love with one of their models. Take it easy on Terminator. I believe he's just trying to give you advise based on his personal knowledge. Keep in mind, he's not going to benefit from your purchase either way. We are all trying to find a great spa at a low price. I've learned that you get what you pay for in the spa business.
Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
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I'd lke to know why, too. Everyone has their "list" here of premium spas, but there is no concrete info on why. Is it because those are the dealers and owners represented here? Is it because we get used to the same names popping up over an over again, and assume that others less known are minor league?
Anne,
it is my experience that for the most part the reason that many of the same names get mentioned again and again is that over time they proven to take better care of people after the sale. I do not think that it is because the spas are SOO much better up front ( I think the fit and finish many times is) but they as makers just seem to be there after you have bought it.
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Mendo, that makes some sense.
Do owner members here represent an accurate crosssection of tub owners overall?
or
Do owner members here represent an accurate crosssection of the most well educated tub owners? (I mean tub eduacation)
I would guess the second, especially since there was a thread a while back on how few tub shoppers wet test, and I think that the huge majority of people who educate themselves here did do so. If that is true, then it would make sense that those savvy shoppers would be looking for good dealer support post-sale.
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I think the owners here on this board are very much the anomaly...I wish we had more buyers who did the type of research that the folks here do.... :)
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Back to Augustus... For someone who claims to be shopping for a spa, it seems as if he is quite upset about someone trying to give him information on what he has seen in his market. As said earlier, I don't think Term has any reason to say these things about Sunbelt unless that is what he had seen.
Augustus, methinks you protest too much. It almost seems as if you work for Sunbelt, tried to get some good feedback and when you didn't, you slammed those who gave you their opinion. This is a forum. You will get opinions. That is the very nature of a forum.
I sincerely hope if you are truly a consumer, you will simply take opinions here to educate yourself, then go shop, wet test and find the best spa for you.
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Back to Augustus... For someone who claims to be shopping for a spa, it seems as if he is quite upset about someone trying to give him information on what he has seen in his market. As said earlier, I don't think Term has any reason to say these things about Sunbelt unless that is what he had seen.
Augustus, methinks you protest too much. It almost seems as if you work for Sunbelt, tried to get some good feedback and when you didn't, you slammed those who gave you their opinion. This is a forum. You will get opinions. That is the very nature of a forum.
You are off-base. I specifically asked for opinions of people who were not dealers, primarily because I have observed Terminator's baseless claims before. Terminator brought nothing to this conversation (regarding Sunbelt's product) that had any truth to it. I called him out on his comments and he decided not to respond. Speaks for itself.
The only legitimate comments made in this thread regarding Sunbelt were positive. My first-hand observations are also positive. I would simply like to hear more opinions of people who've actually owned a Sunbelt spa. Nothing wrong with that.
So far, I've wet tested the following brands:
Sundance
Sunbelt
Hot Spring
Tiger River
L.A. Spa
Coleman
Artesian
Cal Spa
Jacuzzi
Sunbelt's product is far better than more than one on that list, comparable to some, and inferior to some.
I'll make my decision soon. At this point, Sunbelt is still very much on my radar though.
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First of all, you asked that no dealers give their opinion, so I didn't until you asked me to...and then I did.
1. I haven't replied to you because I've been busy. We had the last day of our sale Saturday and I did not have time to play with ya'll.
2. The only reason I'm replying today is because my wife is at the mall shopping for baby clothes and she left me at the hot tub store so I can get my camera and cigars for my trip to the fair tomorrow.
3. I am not a liar. I have always been truthful on here from day one. I daresay I am about as open as anyone on this forum about who I am, what I do, and how I do it. I will put my record up against ANYONE.
4. The spa pictured earlier in this post was purchased by J#### O##### of White Oak, TX from Rainbow Pools and Spa in 2001 exactly as I have stated before. Rainbow Pools and Spa was the Sunbelt dealer at that time and still are as far as I know. They have recently changed their name to Funtime Pools and Spa, but are still located on Gilmer Road in Longview, TX.
5. Mr O#####, the original owner, told me the spa was a Sunbelt, he told me about all the trouble he had with it, how he could get no satisfaction from the dealer (his wife's cousin), and wished to trade the spa in on a 2000 Tiger River Siberian that I had on my deck. This was on 6-15-04. He bought the Tiger River for $6200.
6. The spa's shell had some delamination in the fiberglass, the shell was warped and had pulled away from the cabinet, there were 3 blisters on the shell in the interior, there were some cracks along the topside of the shell, the pumps were calcified and, I assume, inoperable, the cabinet was rotting in places, the screws were rusted and many of them broken, the handrail was broken, and the control panels were gone because the "repairman" had taken them off and never brought them back. Oh yeah...EVERY SINGLE SQUARE INCH OF PLUMBING IN THE SPA WAS CHEWED TO HELL BY RODENTS. They had gotten in through the gap between where the shell had warped and separated from the cabinet.
7. Here are the pics of the day we hauled it off. If it looks like a well built, well insulated spa to you, BUY IT!
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/Picture243-2.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/Picture241.jpg)
And that's all I'm going to have to say about it. They've already gotten more advertising than they should, in my opinion.
I'm gone to the fair and I'll talk to ya'll Tuesday! :)
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7. Here are the pics of the day we hauled it off. If it looks like a well built, well insulated spa to you, BUY IT!
Again, how is this junk spa relevant to this discussion? I'm not considering buying a 10-year old used spa. Sunbelt's spas contain no wood, and according to the manufacturer, their spas haven't contained wood in years.
I recently went out back behind our local Hot Spring dealer (Richard's Backyard). Guess what was there? A bunch of junk spas waiting to be hauled to the dump, many of which were Hot Spring units and in worse condition than the one in your photos.
Guess what litters the property behind our local Sundance dealer? Yep, you guessed it. A bunch of junk spas. Many of these units are Sundance and Hot Spring, just waiting to be hauled to the dump.
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Augustus,
Unless there is another Sunbelt owner lurking out there, I dont think any of the rest of us have any advice other that what you have heard. If you like the spa, buy it. If the amount of questionablility here makes you at all nervous (as it would me) then dont buy it. There are plenty of other good brands around to choose from if that is the case. Good luck. :)
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Augustus,
In your last post, you implied that the picture Term offered is NOT a Sunbelt. Seems like you could try to qualify whether your statement is true or not. You mentioned in your first post that the Sunbelt used a heatlock system of insulation. This can mean a variety of things but the question to you is, does Sunbelt apply foam insulation to the bottom of their tubs? Term's pic indicates that there is foam. Not all TP/heatlock type systems do NOT foam the bottom of their spa, Arctic as one which comes to mind. Why don't you look into that to try and qualify the validity of the picture?
As a fellow consumer (and insurance agent), I was tempted in saving a few thousand and buy a less expensive unit. But for a variety of reasons (stated before in some of my posts), my wife and I decided to try and buy the highest quality spa in the market to avoid the headaches and problems I have read about on this site and others about questionable brands. You stated budget is not critical in your case and that you are also looking at the Grandee, the Piper Glen, and the Optima. We wet tested all 3 and found them all to be fine units but liked the Piper Glen the best. All 3 of those companies all are well thought of and seem to build quality products. In my opinion, if $3k separates the Artesian from the Sunbelt, I would go with the known quantity - Artesian.
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Talk about hitting a nerve >:( I would be inclined to think that if Augy spent as much time defending all of the hottubs along with sunbelt he"s tested then he"s spending much to much time researching a product he is learning little about and is not willing to accept sincere opinions from people that are Really educated. I am a proud owner and operator of a 1988 Sundance Cameo. I only have 6 jets but I love each one equally. Proof Proof Proof !!! Thats what you need Augy. Or you can continue lashing out at very informed people whos only fault is that they take time out of their busy schedules to try and help the consumer make the best choice thats right for them. By the way you are sounding like you do sell for sunbelt or you just dont have anything better to do. But Its all good :)l
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Mr. Augustus, unless you work for Sunbelt (which I assume you don't....at this point),
Term,
You know what happens when you assume!
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Augustus,
In your last post, you implied that the picture Term offered is NOT a Sunbelt. Seems like you could try to qualify whether your statement is true or not.
I was going to refrain from even jumping in but it's just too mcuh to ignore. I find it amazing he can look at a picture of that spa Term posted and definitively say it's not a Sunbelt. How is he so sure? Heck, every spa maker has 7 or so yr old spas out there there where the model is discontinued and looks diffferent than the newer ones in the showroom. How could a newbie customer say that it's not a particular brand from looking at the picture? I deal with new spa owners all the time and they don't have intimate knowledge of their brands to determine whether an older spa in a picture is the same brand as theirs. Whatever?!
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I would consider a Sunbelt if ....
The savings made it worth while ($2000-3000)
I lived in a warm climate
Factory warranty was acceptable (read it)
All other specs were acceptable to me (find out brand of pumps, heater, etc, etc)
Research Research Research....
You can't go by the picture that Mr. Texas posted which clearly showed a spa that was ready to be thrown out. They will all look similar to that if not taken care of, regardless of brand. That is one of his sales techniques.
Hell when I was looking I saw tons of pictures on craigslist of older used Hotspring spas that needed work and looked way worse than that!
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You can't go by the picture that Mr. Texas posted which clearly showed a spa that was ready to be thrown out. They will all look similar to that if not taken care of, regardless of brand. That is one of his sales techniques.
Hell when I was looking I saw tons of pictures on craigslist of older used Hotspring spas that needed work and looked way worse than that!
Your point is valid to a degree. If the spa was about 12 yrs old then I wouldn't give it too much thought to that picture but if it's 6 yrs old then that means a lot. All spas will eventually make it to teh landfill, it's all about how long it takes to get there and how troublesome the journey is.
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Your point is valid to a degree. If the spa was about 12 yrs old then I wouldn't give it too much thought to that picture but if it's 6 yrs old then that means a lot. All spas will eventually make it to teh landfill, it's all about how long it takes to get there and how troublesome the journey is.
Your post also applies to the spa owners! ROFLMAO!!! ;D
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I'm not sure weather I should be sorry I missed most of this thread, or absolutely elated ;D
Chris, buddy, I'm here for you if you need me. This guy sounds like either a salesman, or someone experiencing the worst buyers remorse I've ever seen. Might I advise simply backing off? Some battles you just can't win, or simply aren't worth the resources required.
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If you absolutley LOVE Sunbelt Spas, You'll flip for Sunbelt snacks!!
(http:// http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/MichiganOutlaw/Blue-Berry.jpg)
I smell a TROLL................. :o
P.S., I'm heading to Wal-Mart right now for some Sunbelt; they're low in fat!! ;)