Hot Tub Forum
General => General info Somewhat hot tub related => Topic started by: drewstar on May 11, 2007, 10:05:28 am
-
Hey guys, any of you AC experts? I'm thinking on buying a new AC unit and really am interested in the floor models (As opposed to the window mount units).
I am sick and tired of installing the window mouted AC unit ever spring and taking it out every Fall. Yesterday I dropped my bohemouth window mounted AC unit while trying to install it, and I'm sick of that style.
Is any one familliar with the floor models that vent out the window compared to the more convential full window models? These look much easier to intall.
Assuming similliar BTU's and energy ratings is one stle better/worse than another?
I'd like to buy this style, but have no knoweldge about them:
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/GodlikeMoron/ACunit.jpg)
I'm used to this style and am sick of it.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/GodlikeMoron/ac1.jpg)
However, being cool is the ultimate goal. Room is about 300 Sq feet. I's thebedroom so quiet running is important, but northing is more important than gettting the room ice cold.
I'm looking at a 10,000 BTU floor model unit.
?????
-
Me, too! I didn't know there were floor models available. I just re-sided the house with vinyl and I don't want to mess around with screwing supports outside the window into the new trim work.
A floor model looks like a better alternative.
Phil
-
I Just hate friggin hauling it in and out. >:(
From my limited reading today though, The "portable" (floor) units are not as efficent as the window units...the whole unit is in the room and they give off heat, where as a window unit sit's on the sill and only brings in cold air. the floor models will need to be drained to as windows units just drip outside.
AS fars as BTU's theyre about the same At first I thought Whoa! look at the beast, it's gotta be a monster of cooler I admit It's my bedroom and I only use it a few months, I don't care if I spent an addiotnal 10 bucks on the AC. I want big time Mo Fo cold air. But I'm finding the large floor models are about 9-12,000 BTU's. This is decent, but I think it's comperable to the unit that I have.
Noise? Since the whole unit is inside the room, it's gotta be louder, no?
as I type this, I'm thinking, maybe I am stuck with the damn in the window unit...?
-
Drew.......
I just bought one on e-bay....but have not used
it yet except to just turn it on for a few seconds.
(http://movincool.com/im/products/classic10_hero.jpg)
Here is the link to the one I bought. These units new are $2800.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=016&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=260105390293&rd=1&rd=1
Here is the link to the brand website:
http://movincool.com/portable-air-conditioner/
-
Zep why did you buy that style? Was a window mount stlyle an option? What/how are you going to use it?
That's a $2000 unit that looks like it would be used for a Computer/sever room????
As I just posted, I'm thining the in window are better for cooling and noise, but if mounting in a window isn't feesable, these units are "ok"
I was hoping they were "vastly superior"
???
-
drewstar,
We picked one up last year when we had a heat wave here.
We don't have a suitable window in our family room so I had to go with the portable. I put a 4" vent in a corner of the room so I hook it up there when in use.
Here's a link to the one we picked up. I think it was $550 or something like that. It worked adequately to cool us off when temps were around 100.
[link]http://www.sharpusa.com/products/TypeLanding/0,1056,217,00.html[/link]
Some of the features:
Sharp’s new CV-P12LX Portable Air Conditioner is easy to move from room to room. It provides quiet cooling with sleek and attractive styling and a Plasmacluster™ ion generator. Use it as a dehumidifier to remove up to 65 pints of moisture from the air in a single day. A fully featured remote control with LCD display allows you to control the unit from anywhere in the room. The flexible exhaust hose and window adapter kit allow window installation and venting of the hot air, while keeping rain and insects out.
11,500 BTU, EER 8.5
Features
Portability
4 Easy Roll Casters allow the air conditioner to be moved easily from room to room. The flexible exhaust hose and window adapter kit allow easy venting to the outside.
Full Function Remote Control with LCD Display
Control every function of the unit from anywhere in the room. The LCD display shows all of the current settings. Change the mode of operation, adjust the fan speeds or activate the timer.
Plasmacluster™ Ion Technology
Activate the Plasmacluster Ion generator to release positive and negative ions into the air.
65 Pint Dehumidification
Use the dehumidify function to remove up to 65 pints of moisture from the air every 24 hours.
Automatic Oscillating Louvers
allow you to sweep the air across the room for better distribution and comfort.
4-Way Air Direction
lets you direct the cool air where you need it most.
Bucketless Design
No water tank to empty. The built in condensate disposal system sends the water out of the exhaust hose.
Library Quiet™
As low as 36 dB at low cool.
-
Hmmmm. I'm cuross on how you like it compared to a window mount???
Did you buy from a national chain store?
-
Drew.....
I have parties every once in a while and I convert my garage
into a sports bar themed poker room/overflow room for parties.
I put up beer banners / lighted beer signs / slot machine / ect....
There is no window in my garage and I thought it might get hot.
I saw this unit on e-Bay....a $2800 unit for $250.
However I ended up having a friend just add an A/C duct and return
to my garage that I can shut off/on. It kept my garage nice and cool
last weekend for the Oscar De La Hoya fight party.
So now I may just sell the e-bay unit to a friend that has
a very small cabinet making shop that has no A/C.
-
drewstar,
We haven't had a window unit so I can't compare. Where we live the summers normally aren't too bad.
It would be nice if it were quieter and put out more cooling, but for the price and the BTU rating I think does an adequate job.
When we have moved it to our bedroom and can close the door it does a pretty good job of cooling it down. But I wouldn't expect it to take a moderate sized room from 100 to 80.
Steve
-
thanks guys. I'm understanding where these units would work best. And for me, since I have a decent sized convetional window, and noise and raw cooling power are the biggest critera, a window mount seesm to be the best. I may investagate brackets for it.
Right now, it sits on the sill and is biiitch to put it. yesterday it dropped out (about 10 feet down into a garden). I was hoping I broke it, but no such luck. The wife tells me it still works.
Darnit!
-
Drew, I have split duct air conditoners
http://us.sanyo.com/industrial/HVAC/features.cfm
I have Sanyo's upstairs and a Samsung unit for my sunroom. Te main part of the house is a central system.
I did this to conserve energy. I have a Cape Cod and when we are not using the upstairs (bedrooms), they don't need to be cooled. So usually in the day time, I set the Sanyo units to about 85. that sounds really hot, but since they are very effecitve dehumidifiers, it isn't that bad. About 1/2 hour before bedtime, they are programed to lower the temperature. The great thing is they need no duct work, they are quiet (much more so than window units) and you have individual controls for each room. the newer Samsung unit in my sunroom has a wireless remote and various settings that allow you to air condition, dehumidify or just blow air. It also have a turbo to really cool the room down fast. All of this because I see no reason to waste energy when we aren't using a particular area of the house.
My heat is zoned also.
I would highly recommend these units, and there are other manufacturers. The Sanyo units are 15 years old and we have been very happy with them.
-
And I would hop right on this project :o
http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/nasa-predicts-sizzling-summers-for-east/20070510232009990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001
-
I don't understand the "Split" AC units that well.
I did a bit of research. 2 units, one inside the room the other outside the house and via pipes the AC is run/
Anyone in New england have one? How are they in the winter? What are the costs? this could be the solution I am looking for.
-
http://www.atrendyhome.com/portable-air-comparisons.html
this might help Drew
-
Or this, http://www.mrslim.com/Products/userSpecific.asp?Commercial=0
Not an inexpensive option, but by far the best if you don't want to go central air.
-
Or a good option for those of us who have an all electric house with no duct work. Not really a doit yourself project unless your good. Pipes full of Coolant. 240v Power.
-
Here's my $0.02.
Anything that produces cool air also produces heat. I would think that if you can position the unit outside the room you want cooled and pipe in the cool air you will be OK. I would also think that if it's in the same room it will be very inefficient.
AC units do produce heat and heat pumps (basically AC units running in reverse) can heat a house if the temp isn't too cold. I have central air and in the summer with my house already at 72º it produces a lot of heat when the comporessor kicks on.
I didn't look at any of the links but I believe a split unit is more like a room or 2 central AC unit (I'm thinking similar to a hotels unit except where the compressor is outside). This seemed like a good way to put AC into a house as long as you don't mind the compressor units outside around the house.
I can understand the not wanting to use a window AC unit but their sizes are coming down. A friend at work bought a 11000 BTU LG air conditioner and he said it is small and comes with a remote, I haven't seen it myself so I can't tell you any dimensions. I think it also has a SEER of at least 10.
The other alternative if you have the money is high velocity central air. Apparently they can retrofit older homes and supposedly it works great. Unlike regular central AC they install small (3" ?) pipes and it works by creating a high velocity of the air coming out of the small ducts.
I don't know much about AC although I researched a lot when I was buying a new furnace and AC unit. I also work with some people who do work on commercial AC units so I picked their brains a little. Unfortunately most of my knowledge is with central air units but it may also apply to the room AC units too (the heat they produce is something that I know for sure about).
I hope this helps!
-
Actualy the units we are looking at and talking about do not pipe in cool air. The pump/compressor sits outside and the pipes are full of a coolant R-128 or whatever that junk it. The small pipes are run up the outside of your house along with another set of wires from the outside unit and through the wall. They hook to a small fan/coil unit that gets mounted on the wall and is thermostaticly controlled. These unit can be sized to hook up to one fan/coil unit or up to I think 4 in serveral locations. Pretty slick, keeps the heat generation source outside and is very unatrusive inside. And they work extremly well. The small 1/2 copper coolant pipe gets a thick insulation on it to help there effieciency. We sell them, sorry to sound like a sales guy...LOL
Pretty much the same as a regular air conditioning unit only not piped into your duct work where the coil sits and your furnace fan circulates the cool air, But rather a stand alone unit with it's own fan. Someone had 2500 bucks for a stand alone unit well these things aren't cheap and 2500 may be on the low end for a fully installed unit. A window unit is alot cheaper and may be worth carry and store every year?
Tman.....your friendly neighborhood HVAC/PLUMBING/BUTTCRACK/ PART TIME SPATECH guy!!
-
Actualy the units we are looking at and talking about do not pipe in cool air. The pump/compressor sits outside and the pipes are full of a coolant R-128 or whatever that junk it. The small pipes are run up the outside of your house along with another set of wires from the outside unit and through the wall. They hook to a small fan/coil unit that gets mounted on the wall and is thermostaticly controlled. These unit can be sized to hook up to one fan/coil unit or up to I think 4 in serveral locations. Pretty slick, keeps the heat generation source outside and is very unatrusive inside. And they work extremly well. The small 1/2 copper coolant pipe gets a thick insulation on it to help there effieciency. We sell them, sorry to sound like a sales guy...LOL
Pretty much the same as a regular air conditioning unit only not piped into your duct work where the coil sits and your furnace fan circulates the cool air, But rather a stand alone unit with it's own fan. Someone had 2500 bucks for a stand alone unit well these things aren't cheap and 2500 may be on the low end for a fully installed unit. A window unit is alot cheaper and may be worth carry and store every year?
Tman.....your friendly neighborhood HVAC/PLUMBING/BUTTCRACK/ PART TIME SPATECH guy!!
Tman, you elaborated on exactly what I thought those split AC units were ... in my mind I knew what they looked like ... I gave the reader's digest version!
-
Tman, can I ask since this is your field?...My Sanyo units are in the two upstairs bedroms. The install was relatively simple (my husband had HVAC friends that do pharmaceutical applications). We installed on the knee wall of my Cape Cod, so all the pipes run through the eves in the front of the house. As far as I know the only maintence I need to do is clear out the water discharge pipes and wash my unit filters. Is that right?
I found these things when there application was virtually limited to industry installs. Steve's friends put the original units in our house very reasonably (probably about $3,000 for the 2 zone unit). that was about 15 years ago. My newer unit was $3000.00 for one zone, but that was 4 years ago and it is a big unit. All of the "guts" outside fit under my back deck. The external fans are quiet and I think they look much better than a central unit!
I think I sound like the sales person, but when I find something that works that well, consistantly, I like to share.
If you go this way, Drew, you will have no reqrets.... ;)and it will save your back from hauling those window units.
-
Tman, can I ask since this is your field?...My Sanyo units are in the two upstairs bedroms. The install was relatively simple (my husband had HVAC friends that do pharmaceutical applications). We installed on the knee wall of my Cape Cod, so all the pipes run through the eves in the front of the house. As far as I know the only maintence I need to do is clear out the water discharge pipes and wash my unit filters. Is that right?
I found these things when there application was virtually limited to industry installs. Steve's friends put the original units in our house very reasonably (probably about $3,000 for the 2 zone unit). that was about 15 years ago. My newer unit was $3000.00 for one zone, but that was 4 years ago and it is a big unit. All of the "guts" outside fit under my back deck. The external fans are quiet and I think they look much better than a central unit!
I think I sound like the sales person, but when I find something that works that well, consistantly, I like to share.
If you go this way, Drew, you will have no reqrets.... ;)and it will save your back from hauling those window units.
Yes the only real maintainence is keeping drain piping clean and keeping filters clean and your compressor fins outside, like any AC unit. The one thing I would recommend but it's probably out of the question now is, these units work better placed high on the walls inside. As cool air moves across the room up high it sinks and cools a room more effieciently. Placed low they leave alot of warm air up high. Crack the highest window in your house to push warm air out. Or run a ceiling fan to move all the air to create more effieciency. There popular because of there effeiciancy compared to whole house units which cool duct work crawl spaces and a bunch of places that don't need to be cooled. They are more central to where you want to cool, 1 room or another as you move that way. Or in a smaller house like mine, one upstairs during the day and one downstair at bed time while the other is shut off. But not cheaper than whole house units. But if you have no duct work as I do, the only other way besides window units. Or Lake Superior. 38 this morning.
-
Thanks Guys.
I like the ductless system. I'd be looking at one unit, mounted on an inside wall and could run the tubes up the wall into the attic, and then it's a 20' run to the exterior wall and side of the house were I put the second half.
3K? Ouch. I was hoping under $1.5.....
The wife isn't crazy about this system. I don't know why. (she does't like the looks of the unit) I bet I could get her to come around on that, but 3K to cool one room? I might just go with window mount for a few more years.
(the one that fell out the window looked like it survived, but I remoutned this weekend and if runs more than a few minutes gets very loud.).
What's the best brand for portable AC units?
-
Fedders
-
Drew call some AC guys in your area and get accurate prices. My sunroom is 24X24 with a vaulted ceiling, so the unit to cool that room had to be pretty large. It also required some major electrical work and a long run from the other side of my house. You probably won't need one that large.
There are several manufacturers now and the nice thing is that while they are mounted on the wall perminantly, they don't impact your view out the window or prevent you from opening the window for fresh air when AC is not needed. I love my Samsung unit because the fins move allowing distribution of cooled air really fast. The older Sanyo units have fixed fins that are moved manually.
Tman is right about the placement. We moved the unit in my kids bedroom and it is now mounted higher on the wall, it cools faster than the unit in my bedroom which is mounted at the top of that knee wall. Since I also have ceiling fans, I find the set up economical and a much better solution than window units....Get a good fix on prices before you give up on this Drew.
-
The portable ac units have two design flaws that make them less desireable and efficient than their window counterparts. The efficiency loss comes from the fact that the condenser air intake is actually the cooled room air. The unit uses air that you paid to cool to condense refrigerant as part of the cycle. The desireability issue relates to the fact that you have to manually dispose of the resulting condensate created by the cooling process just as you would a dehumidifier.
The ductless split ac units (Sanyo, Mitsubishi etc) are far more efficient and quiet, but geometrically more expensive.
-
There ya go........The lenght of the refrigerant lines can come into play for effieciency and the maximum run is clearly listed per unit. Our guys do a great job blending these into the outside of the house with over 100 different colors of insulation covering. All wires and drain lines are hidden in this covering. They have not been out long enough for us to notice any major deterioration or break down of the insulation but it will become a problem over time and is considered a consumable product. The cover removal and insulation replacment is a do-it yourself project.
-
Hey Drew, this is just a thought, and you should check to be sure, but..I think these efficient airconditioners should qualify for the government energy credits (at least according to Readers Digest!)..That might make the price a bit easier to take.
-
Hey Drew, check this link
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/hvacr/ac-refrigeration/ductless-split-systems-ac-heat-pumps
Last I knew they went strictly business to business, but if you're in business, or know someone who is, I think the most they asked me for was my tax ID number for proof. A wee bit less than 3K 8-)
-
Hey Drew, check this link
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/categories/hvacr/ac-refrigeration/ductless-split-systems-ac-heat-pumps
Last I knew they went strictly business to business, but if you're in business, or know someone who is, I think the most they asked me for was my tax ID number for proof. A wee bit less than 3K 8-)
Drew I can get you a national discount at Grainger and have it shipped direct if you'd like to investigate this more. As long as there is no star on the item price, figure close to 20 % off
-
Thanks for the offer T man. I will keep it in mind.
I am still up in the air on this. (ok, I'm slowy convincining my wife that this is the way to go...) I think I need to get a guy out to my place. I don't think I'll be doing it DYI.
I noticed the Grainer units were 230v....darn, I haven't thought about electrical. I've got a 110 line in the attic but will I need 220?
As we all know electrical can add several hunderd $ to the price. I was hoping to keep this under 2K- installed - but if this creeps over 2K I'm nixing it I've got other toys I'm saving for and a $600 window mount will be fine.
-
Think long term, Drew! think energy savings..not only from your electric bills, but also your back hauling those window units. Think resale value of your house...and check into those energy tax credits. that could save you some $$$, even though it may not happen until tax time. I would really weigh this out. It only took me 2 years of window units to say forget this...and go with the Sanyos....what about a short term Home Equity loan? Deductable interest ...A window unit won't give you ANY return on your money. The split duct units are like central air (I think they are actually better). ;)
-
I wont' get any tax credits as I'm not on a national grid. :-[
But yea, I'm with you Bonnie Got find a an AC guy to come over.
-
Are you sure, Drew?
http://www.energy.gov/taxbreaks.htm.
I don't see specificatons for who can qualify ...
It looks like $300.00..and that is not a deduction, it is a credit. You get $300.00 back.
-
No I am not sure.
I was told that I don't any credit for the "energy star" stuff, but I do think you are correct with credit you provided me with!
-
I bet if you find an installer, they will steer you in the right direction and assure you get the tax credit!
-
called a local residentail HVAC place that installs the MR Slim units.
Typical cost for a 1 unit bedroom....oh....about $4800.00
No way.
-
try try again. I didn't take the first bid, and it was on that same unit. Check out Samsung...it was less expensive for a bigger unit..
I would not have paid 4800.00 either...how about your heating company or do you have electric?
-
My house is all electric.
I'm seeing complete units on the internet for a single room going for 700-1200 bucks. perfect. However, I wouldn't mind paying a few bucks to have it installed. (hence my under 2K impression/budget)
The 4800 "ballpark" knocked me out of my seat.
I'll check the hard copy yellow pages when I get home tonight.
-
There's plenty of 110 V units on that Grainger page. How many BTU's were you thinkin, or has anyone done the calculation of what you need yet? How many SF? Upper level or lower level?
-
Drew, there should be a website that lets you input the info Tman just asked you about. You can calculate your unit size. I just can't think of how I found it right now. If you get a HVAC company to give you an estimate, wait and see if they come up with the same numbers. the first quote that I got was on that Mr.Slim unit and when I balked at the price compared to the Samsung, the sales person lowered his price...he also lowered the size of the unit!!! I guess he thought I was really stupid. We argued over the size that I needed and thankfully I told him to take a hike! the Samsung does a great job and I know a smaller unit would not have been as efficient.
-
There's plenty of 110 V units on that Grainger page. How many BTU's were you thinkin, or has anyone done the calculation of what you need yet? How many SF? Upper level or lower level?
It's a raised ranch house. Circa 1982. The room is on the upper level. The room is aprox 300 sq ft. 9-12K BTU should be plenty.
This pic shows the west side of my house. (The short side is the west side). The bedroom runs front to back along the west side of the house and is about 15 feet wide inside. YOu can see the existing AC unit in the window (which fell out).
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/GodlikeMoron/AChouse.jpg)
I'd like to put the new split unit in this room, but mount the Interior unit on the wall opposite of the outside west wall. (and run the pipes up into the attic, across the room (15 feet) and the out this side of the house and down to the ground where the 2 unit will be. Good thing there is plenty of power here. Right below this room is where the electrical panels are. You can see the meters behind the bushes.
I've got a few more numbers of HVAC companies that I will be calling to see what they think it would costs.
-
Ok wait...300 SF x 22 = 6600 BTU x upper level calculater 1.54 = 10,164 BTU x fluff Yea your right on track. Get what you can afford. Mount it high, shorten the feeder runs as much as possible. And for grine out loud close the windows!!!
-
So Drew, update us did you get split duct units?..
I took the lattice off from my deck to go under and inspect and clean my Samsung unit this weekend. My husband yelled because he claimed he saw a snake under there with me :o...I guess I disturbed this snake and out he went. My kids captured him and decided it was a copper head :-/.. I knew better and confirmed on line that we had a corn snake. So we put him back under the deck. Later we found a second one in the grass (definately not the same snake, but another corn sanke) and moved it under the deck also. Corn snakes are great to have for rodent control! I bet installers find snakes all the time. I think it's funny how many men are teriffied of snakes and spiders! ;D
-
I called several places and left messages asking to have a return call to discuss installing a ductless system in my home. I didn't hear back from any of them. I guess this isn't the best time of year to try and get ahold of an AC guy?
The past few days we had extremeley hot days (90's) and my wife and I tried to cope with the broken AC and wait it out and hopefully hear back from one of the AC companies, but this weekend was just too hot and we agreed to just buy a standard in the window AC unit for the bedroom. A quick check in consumer's reports and off to Sears we went. I
Maybe in a few years I'll revisit an upgrade to the ductless AC units, I would like one, but for now, I have too many other things on my plate to spend my cash on, and the Ductless AC adventure just didn't pan out.
Thanks for everyone's help. :)
-
I knew better and confirmed on line that we had a corn snake. So we put him back under the deck. Later we found a second one in the grass (definately not the same snake, but another corn sanke) and moved it under the deck also. Corn snakes are great to have for rodent control!
Good for you Bonni, I am always mystified why every encounter my friends have with snakes ends with a snake being be-headed. :'(
Cotton mouth, copper head etc, off with their heads but corn, black, garden etc leave them alone.
:D