Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: stuart on September 13, 2006, 02:33:57 pm

Title: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: stuart on September 13, 2006, 02:33:57 pm
Most of you know about my struggles with Master over the years having been a dealer in the last few years with several complaints.

Well I've backed off a bit but now have to speak up once again.

It takes us up to 6 weeks to get filters in from the company, we've had circuit boards on order for around 4 months and can't get parts, we have a customer with broken jets and a cracked spa that we already got an RMA# from Master over a month ago but can't get an answer on when the spa will be shipped.

When you call the factory it's rare that you can talk with someone and when you do they either don't have an answer or are terribly rude.

If they are trying to punish me for not being a dealer any longer that's one thing however this is directly effecting people that bought their products whom we are ready willing and able to take care of once Master handles their part.

I think that what I need to do is send every one of these customers links to these forums and let them start complaining in public more....Master seems to take the internet more serious than anything else.

Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: windsurfdog on September 13, 2006, 02:57:20 pm
Bubba stu,

I hate it for your customers and I hate it for you.  I also hate it for any tub shopper who may decide an MS is the most suitable for their tastes but loses confidence because of complaints like this.  I believe you may be correct about the internet influence...give it a go.  You know MS can't have a more enthusiastic cheerleader than me and this certainly is disappointing.
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: Tatooed_Lady on September 13, 2006, 03:28:56 pm
This sucks, no matter WHO the tub is made by. If you're going to supply a product just because people have  got the cash for it, then you should be supplying a product that is quality (as opposed to "Kwality" with a capital "K").. If MS feels that they're getting a bad reputation due to circumstances beyond their control, then they need to get rid of the crap in their crop and hire GOOD factory reps who are willing to do what they can to create customer loyalty. Word of mouth is a powerful thing....and the internet makes it that much louder/stronger.
Seems to me that the dealers well and truly have their hands tied on this one...which just pisses the customers off more, figuring that they're on the take, too...
Mean, stupid, greedy corporate a-hole people SUCK.  >:(
(My $.02)
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: hottub.pool_boy on September 13, 2006, 04:55:22 pm
Mr. Stu,
I'm sorry for your situstion as if reflects on your business. A dealer with top notch customer service is only as good as the supply chain behind it.
We're dealing with a similar situation with a dealer who was finally terminated. We've taken over MANY warranty nightmares perpetuated at the ex-dealers hands. The consumer views us as no better even though we've cleared up many of the problems. Time will heal in our case. We will be stepping up our efforts to rectify the ex-dealers transgressions as well as damage control for a while.

I wish you the best.
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: Vinny on September 13, 2006, 06:31:05 pm
Stuart,

How long ago were you selling Master?

Based on what you've written in the past about your customer service (all of it being excellent), I know you are bothered by this. Is there any way to second source the parts needed or give some business (buy parts) from another non local dealer?
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: DPS on September 13, 2006, 10:46:46 pm
Hello Stuart,

I had a similar situation with another brand of spas.  I had been servicing and doing warranty work for this manufacturer for over 12 years when they talked me into carrying their brand, along with the Marquis I already sold, in 2001.  When I came to my senses a year later and stopped selling their spas and went back to just Marquis they would no longer sell me parts.  I guess to punish me they punished my/their customers by not selling me parts to do their warranty work. When I asked "what am I going to tell my customers with one year old spas when they call for warranty service?" they replied "I don't care".
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: MarKee on September 13, 2006, 11:02:33 pm
The local Master dealer just went out of business here.  Everything I hear about Master is bad, from the rebate scams to things like this.  
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: Brewman on September 14, 2006, 07:15:40 am
The Master dealer up the street from my office is apparently still having their July Blowout Sale, or so says their big painted widow.
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: windsurfdog on September 14, 2006, 08:33:02 am
Quote
The local Master dealer just went out of business here.  Everything I hear about Master is bad, from the rebate scams to things like this.  
Markee,
You hearing seems to be pretty selective considering broad stroke statements like that.  And please feel free to dredge up the rebate sh*t in the dead horse section.  And aren't you somehow affiliated with Marquis anyway?
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: Gary on September 14, 2006, 10:47:01 am
Quote
Quote
The local Master dealer just went out of business here.  Everything I hear about Master is bad, from the rebate scams to things like this.  
Markee,
You hearing seems to be pretty selective considering broad stroke statements like that.  And please feel free to dredge up the rebate sh*t in the dead horse section.  And aren't you somehow affiliated with Marquis anyway?

I am just service guy but I agree with Markee.

I think their company is awful. I was in Detroit a few years ago and stopped by Master dealer just to check them out, the guy I talked to claimed to VP and sales and marketing for Master. I have never heard so much BS in my life. Even after I told him I am a service person and wanted to learn about their spas. I looked at the guy straight in the face and said if you believe the BS you just told me I suggest you find a new line of work or if you know that you are full of it then that tells me all I need to know about your company.
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: stuart on September 14, 2006, 11:02:39 am
I was a Master Dealer for a little over 2 years but only really pushed the product in the first year.... We got into the rebate mess because the factory rep pushed it as a "Master Spa Backed" program. We also called everyone from the president of master to the founder of Cashable Vouchers in England to try and get answers on the program.

I feel that we sold it program for what it was...a marketing promotion. After telling every customer that it was a "chance" of getting money back, that we were selling spas not rebates and they should be happy with the product before buying regardless of the voucher. We even told them it was more like a lottery ticket then an investment. We sold a million dollars worth of Master in two sales over about a month and a half.

We stopped selling them because of their marketing practices and their lack of customer service. Everything was a battle to get the right parts for, know one at the factory seemed to understand the product, the first 2 spas we got in a filled on our showroom floor flooded the showroom, every stereo or TV spa we sold seemed to have a problem, their shell pulls were horrible and people at the factory were just not nice to anyone at our store.

To date I’m seeing the same patterns from the company, unethical marketing practices, slow warranty parts, poor customer service and unhappy people at the factory. The fact that Windy and maybe a few others have had a good experience over the last few years with a spa is great but in the long haul Master is a marketing machine with little quality or support IMO.

Shame too because they have the knowledge and tools to do it right….
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: windsurfdog on September 14, 2006, 12:14:39 pm
Quote
I was a Master Dealer for a little over 2 years but only really pushed the product in the first year.... We got into the rebate mess because the factory rep pushed it as a "Master Spa Backed" program. We also called everyone from the president of master to the founder of Cashable Vouchers in England to try and get answers on the program.

I feel that we sold it program for what it was...a marketing promotion. After telling every customer that it was a "chance" of getting money back, that we were selling spas not rebates and they should be happy with the product before buying regardless of the voucher. We even told them it was more like a lottery ticket then an investment. We sold a million dollars worth of Master in two sales over about a month and a half.

We stopped selling them because of their marketing practices and their lack of customer service. Everything was a battle to get the right parts for, know one at the factory seemed to understand the product, the first 2 spas we got in a filled on our showroom floor flooded the showroom, every stereo or TV spa we sold seemed to have a problem, their shell pulls were horrible and people at the factory were just not nice to anyone at our store.

To date I’m seeing the same patterns from the company, unethical marketing practices, slow warranty parts, poor customer service and unhappy people at the factory. The fact that Windy and maybe a few others have had a good experience over the last few years with a spa is great but in the long haul Master is a marketing machine with little quality or support IMO.

Shame too because they have the knowledge and tools to do it right….
Well, unless I canvass more MS owners and MS dealers, I can only go upon knowledge of those owners and current dealers that I know.  I have specifically asked my local MS dealer if he is pleased to be carrying the MS line and he has told me that he is very pleased to be doing so.  If he's blowing smoke up my *ss, so be it...otherwise, he is happy.  I just don't think MS would be able to remain in business if their product and service were as horrible as depicted.  MS is certainly not trying to capture market share by underselling spas based on price...their products are priced competitively with other manufacturers.  That they choose to market their spas in a way that is seen as "unethical" by other spa dealers is probably more a problem for the other spa dealers that deem it so--and if we need to continue dredging up the tired, old rebate cr*p over and over, then I suggest we move this in with the other dead horses.  And their product, at least the one I purchased, is not subpar, IMHO...but, then again, as I've said over and over again at this site, I'm but a single extremely pleased owner who knows at least 2 other extremely pleased owners.  I just refuse to believe that global MS customer and dealer satisfaction is as abysmal as presented.  I'm sorry, stuart, but I just won't buy your widespread gloom and doom picture...and I'm stating so just so other readers who may be contemplating an MS purchase will see that there is more than one side to this story.  That said, I stand behind my first post in this thread...I hate it's happening to you and your customers and it just isn't right.
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: Gary on September 14, 2006, 01:46:09 pm
Quote
Quote
I was a Master Dealer for a little over 2 years but only really pushed the product in the first year.... We got into the rebate mess because the factory rep pushed it as a "Master Spa Backed" program. We also called everyone from the president of master to the founder of Cashable Vouchers in England to try and get answers on the program.

I feel that we sold it program for what it was...a marketing promotion. After telling every customer that it was a "chance" of getting money back, that we were selling spas not rebates and they should be happy with the product before buying regardless of the voucher. We even told them it was more like a lottery ticket then an investment. We sold a million dollars worth of Master in two sales over about a month and a half.

We stopped selling them because of their marketing practices and their lack of customer service. Everything was a battle to get the right parts for, know one at the factory seemed to understand the product, the first 2 spas we got in a filled on our showroom floor flooded the showroom, every stereo or TV spa we sold seemed to have a problem, their shell pulls were horrible and people at the factory were just not nice to anyone at our store.

To date I’m seeing the same patterns from the company, unethical marketing practices, slow warranty parts, poor customer service and unhappy people at the factory. The fact that Windy and maybe a few others have had a good experience over the last few years with a spa is great but in the long haul Master is a marketing machine with little quality or support IMO.

Shame too because they have the knowledge and tools to do it right….
Well, unless I canvass more MS owners and MS dealers, I can only go upon knowledge of those owners and current dealers that I know.  I have specifically asked my local MS dealer if he is pleased to be carrying the MS line and he has told me that he is very pleased to be doing so.  If he's blowing smoke up my *ss, so be it...otherwise, he is happy.  I just don't think MS would be able to remain in business if their product and service were as horrible as depicted.  MS is certainly not trying to capture market share by underselling spas based on price...their products are priced competitively with other manufacturers.  That they choose to market their spas in a way that is seen as "unethical" by other spa dealers is probably more a problem for the other spa dealers that deem it so--and if we need to continue dredging up the tired, old rebate cr*p over and over, then I suggest we move this in with the other dead horses.  And their product, at least the one I purchased, is not subpar, IMHO...but, then again, as I've said over and over again at this site, I'm but a single extremely pleased owner who knows at least 2 other extremely pleased owners.  I just refuse to believe that global MS customer and dealer satisfaction is as abysmal as presented.  I'm sorry, stuart, but I just won't buy your widespread gloom and doom picture...and I'm stating so just so other readers who may be contemplating an MS purchase will see that there is more than one side to this story.  That said, I stand behind my first post in this thread...I hate it's happening to you and your customers and it just isn't right.

Sounds like someone has been drinking KoolAid. ;D
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: windsurfdog on September 14, 2006, 01:56:41 pm
Quote
Sounds like someone has been drinking KoolAid. ;D
Actually, I prefer martinis...... :)
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: stuart on September 14, 2006, 02:14:06 pm
Windy buddy,
Anybody that is as old as you and still windsurfing needs martini's! ;)

Then again where you live windsurfing might be considered transportation to work some seasons...

BTW, I called the VP of Master yesterday morning and left him a message. So far no return call so I've decided to give it until tomorrow and then call my customers with all the forums that I can think of and give them an in-store credit to relate thier frustrations and stories...
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: windsurfdog on September 14, 2006, 02:54:26 pm
Bubba Stu,

Good strategy...I hope they take you up on the offer...it's dealers like you that everyone should hope to do business with.

And the older I get and the more windsurfing I do, the more martinis I need!  ::)
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: stuart on September 18, 2006, 11:36:48 am
Well,
I did get a call from someone at Master on the Spa with cracks that needs replaced, we've already received an authorization but no one can tell me when he gets a new one. The guy that called us said that he could not answer us or call us back until Wed due to the fact that they close at noon on Friday and he was taking a long weekend. He must be the only one at Master to take care of these things....

So I'm tired of my customers getting the run around! I have a letter from the president of Master saying that they will honor warranty through us and sell us products to keep the spas we sold in service yet they are really doing a poor job of that.

I feel that my only recourse is to send a copy of the letter and a complaint to the BBB in Indiana and get as many of these customers on the forums as possible.

I will help them set up accounts but here are a few of the problems;

Ty, bought his spa on the voucher program, did everything correct but was rejected because they would not take his original contract marked $500 cash as a cash receipt for the down payment. Several of his jet heads popped out and some of his jet housings cracked (all in the same place, defect), then he sees micro crazing all over his shell. He has been almost 2 months without his spa.

Cal, could not mount the CM3 cover lift in his deck correctly due to lack of frame support in the spa. Replaced topside once and had to wait over a month. His circuit board has been out for around 4 months and backordered at Master.

Marci, LS700 that was running around $100 per month on power bills (3 years ago), we put a meter between the spa and the house to track it. Master told us it was impossible but we had records. We took the spa off of the deck, added insulation, put it on an insulated pad and it is down to an average of about $45 per month but the spa runs so loud they hate to turn the jets on. They are trying to sell it and buy a D1 from us.

Jody and Nancy, Bought an FST on the voucher program and were denied for mail receipt (which was in the packet when sent), TV has never worked, stereo is out, we've replaced 3 floating remotes and the spa run way to loud to hear anything anyway. Master sent them a remote to their house that we had on order and bypassed us... Still can't get the TV to operate and can't get a tech at Master to explain why, TV is now out of warranty.

ED, every motor leaked at bleed lines, plumbing joint leak at jet, took two months to get jets.

Bob, replaced 3 circuit boards with each one taking between 2 to 3 months to get in...

I have many more but some have just given up...if we run out of filters it takes almost 2 months to get more in (and they are proprietary). The large flat filter on top that Master used as such a selling tool swells up and won't fit correctly or the clips keep falling off and it floats. Master's answer to this is to take it out because "it's not necessary!!"

I'm going to continue these posts, encourage my customers to also in addition to filing the BBB claim until my customers are taken care of.

BTW, Master had a factory booth at the state fair putting more effort into selling new spas instead of taking care of the ones that are already out there.
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: windsurfdog on September 18, 2006, 02:48:03 pm
bubba stu,

All I can say is that I absolutely hate it for you and your customers...and I just don't understand why MS cannot be more responsive.  I hope yours is an isolated case but it is tough to believe that you would be the only one.  I'll continue probing my dealer and see if he is experiencing any similar difficulties.  As I posted in another thread, after 2+ years of ownership, I just had a second spinner jet fail.  I took it into the dealer who did not have a replacement on the shelf.  I received it under warranty delivered to my door by UPS direct from the factory just this weekend.  I'm glad I'm not experiencing the frustrations of you and your customers and I'm just in a quandry why MS isn't responding.  Please don't let it drive you crazy though I can see how it would be difficult not to go stark raving mad.  Come on down to Florida and let me make you a martini....or 12.... :o
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: stuart on September 18, 2006, 03:24:55 pm
Well Windy,
I think that like myself the guys at Master have heard that you are a great connection for Florida hangouts and might make the best Martini in Fl so they do everything they can to keep you happy!! ;) 8-)
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: windsurfdog on September 18, 2006, 04:13:40 pm
Yeah, I gotta treat'em special just like we treat the ladies special down here in Sunnyland.  You've heard our mantra, haven't you?

"Get the women liquored up!  Get the women liquored up!  Get the women liquored up!"

 8-)
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: ZzTop on September 18, 2006, 08:50:05 pm
Quote
Windy buddy,
Anybody that is as old as you and still windsurfing needs martini's! ;)

Then again where you live windsurfing might be considered transportation to work some seasons...

BTW, I called the VP of Master yesterday morning and left him a message. So far no return call so I've decided to give it until tomorrow and then call my customers with all the forums that I can think of and give them an in-store credit to relate thier frustrations and stories...

i AM SURE PLAN B WILL WORK

Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: stuart on September 19, 2006, 12:18:33 am
ZZ, Buddy!!
Your still around!!??  How ya been?

Hey everybody....it's his fault I'm even on this forum!!

(sorry ZZ, I might have just gotten you banned... );) ;D 8-)
Title: Q!!
Post by: ZzTop on September 19, 2006, 03:04:07 pm
Quote
ZZ, Buddy!!
Your still around!!??  How ya been?

Hey everybody....it's his fault I'm even on this forum!!

(sorry ZZ, I might have just gotten you banned... );) ;D 8-)

Thanks for the mention.

Doing fine.

I see you are still doing the good work.  Keep it up, the world needs more guys like you! :)

Regards, Zz
Title: Re: Master Spa dissapointing once again!
Post by: clover on September 19, 2006, 10:37:40 pm
Quote
Well,
I did get a call from someone at Master on the Spa with cracks that needs replaced, we've already received an authorization but no one can tell me when he gets a new one. The guy that called us said that he could not answer us or call us back until Wed due to the fact that they close at noon on Friday and he was taking a long weekend. He must be the only one at Master to take care of these things....

So I'm tired of my customers getting the run around! I have a letter from the president of Master saying that they will honor warranty through us and sell us products to keep the spas we sold in service yet they are really doing a poor job of that.

I feel that my only recourse is to send a copy of the letter and a complaint to the BBB in Indiana and get as many of these customers on the forums as possible.

I will help them set up accounts but here are a few of the problems;

Ty, bought his spa on the voucher program, did everything correct but was rejected because they would not take his original contract marked $500 cash as a cash receipt for the down payment. Several of his jet heads popped out and some of his jet housings cracked (all in the same place, defect), then he sees micro crazing all over his shell. He has been almost 2 months without his spa.

Cal, could not mount the CM3 cover lift in his deck correctly due to lack of frame support in the spa. Replaced topside once and had to wait over a month. His circuit board has been out for around 4 months and backordered at Master.

Marci, LS700 that was running around $100 per month on power bills (3 years ago), we put a meter between the spa and the house to track it. Master told us it was impossible but we had records. We took the spa off of the deck, added insulation, put it on an insulated pad and it is down to an average of about $45 per month but the spa runs so loud they hate to turn the jets on. They are trying to sell it and buy a D1 from us.

Jody and Nancy, Bought an FST on the voucher program and were denied for mail receipt (which was in the packet when sent), TV has never worked, stereo is out, we've replaced 3 floating remotes and the spa run way to loud to hear anything anyway. Master sent them a remote to their house that we had on order and bypassed us... Still can't get the TV to operate and can't get a tech at Master to explain why, TV is now out of warranty.

ED, every motor leaked at bleed lines, plumbing joint leak at jet, took two months to get jets.

Bob, replaced 3 circuit boards with each one taking between 2 to 3 months to get in...

I have many more but some have just given up...if we run out of filters it takes almost 2 months to get more in (and they are proprietary). The large flat filter on top that Master used as such a selling tool swells up and won't fit correctly or the clips keep falling off and it floats. Master's answer to this is to take it out because "it's not necessary!!"

I'm going to continue these posts, encourage my customers to also in addition to filing the BBB claim until my customers are taken care of.

BTW, Master had a factory booth at the state fair putting more effort into selling new spas instead of taking care of the ones that are already out there.
customer experiences like this can destroy an honest man's business.  You sell what you believe to be "a good choice" and the problems are not responded to by the manufacturer, because they are more interested in selling numbers than supporting the dealer and keeping the customer happy.  Consequently, customer referrals drop dramatically and you try your best to help YOUR customer listening to their long list of complaints, as you take a beating ONLY because you sold what you "thought" was a good choice.

Sorry about your experiences Stuart, I feel your pain.  In spite of your admirable efforts, people who experience these types of problems become bitter about their decision and tend to take it out on the "dealer" that sold it to them when he is not the bad guy at all.