Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: JUST ME on September 09, 2006, 02:14:59 pm
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Hi All Dealer,
Lets say that I live in Salt Lake and buy a hot tub from a dealer "manufactured by one of the top companies" In November-05. Now its August-06 and I now live in Kansas City, will the local dealer of this hot tub charge me a trip charges to come out and fix under warranty because I did not buy it from him??
All imput would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Just Me
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when you deal with a copemyes im not sure if they will honor the warrenty. But one from a top company, warrenty will transfer with original owner no matter where you go. ::) :P just kidding with you on your spelling
BIGPOPPA
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Trip charges for warranty repairs are usually at the discretion of the individual dealers. While you may be able to argue this type of charge from the dealer that originally sold you the spa (if there was no mention of it at the time of sale), I would think that if you choose to move you're at the mercy of the new dealer servicing you.
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Hi Dr. Spa,
So if someone buys a Maytag washer at Best Buy and they need it fix, the appliance company that is a Maytag authorized servicer should or could charge a trip charge AND get paid from Maytag ( because they will get paid from Maytag) to fix it under warranty??
If this is the case I would love to have someone ( a hot tub employee) call me to fix there appliance under warranty. ( and get paid twice for the job)
I just dont understand why this could or should happen. Its under warranty from hs, d1, sundance or any other manufacture. No one should be charged under a warranty repair no matter were they buy it.
In my opinion,
but thats
just me
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I'm not a dealer (everybody clear on that now? ;)), but my understanding of warranty claims is that the manufacturer compensates the dealer at a rate that is usually much lower than the dealer's normal service fee. As a result, warranty claims are not a money-maker for the dealership, rather a cost of doing business. Some dealers charge any fees provided by the warranty, even if you purchased the spa from them. Others seem to feel that since they made a profit on the sale, and the warranty helped close the deal, they have a reason to eat the fees so the customer is satisfied. The dealer in your new locale has little to gain in this situation. You aren't likely to be buying a tub from them, since you just bought one. About all they have to gain is your chemical business, and potential referalls. They may decide that there isn't enough profit potential there to eat any warranty service losses.
Some dealers on this forum say that they treat customers that move into the area like their own and don't charge a fee, either in hopes of generating repeat business, or as part of protecting their and their brand's reputation. I'm sure they hope that any of their customers that move would get the same courtesy. Customers that find themselves in that situation should consider themselves fortunate.
I imagine this was all spelled out in the warranty when you bought the spa. If it was a concern, perhaps you could have found a manufacturer that doesn't provide for a fee in their contract. It's too late now, so try to look at the bright side, at least you were able to move across country and still have someone available to fix your spa, even though at a modest fee. I know -- easy for me to say, it's not my money! 8-)
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I'll try to explain this in an understandable way.......
I think we can all agree that a service company, or service tech is entitled to get paid for the work they perform.
So lets take your maytag example. Say maytag wants to become more cost competitive but doesn't want to lower the quality of their product. They still need the same amount of profits to stay in business but want to sell their product at a lower price. They know the average number of warranty repairs performed on their product. They also know what they pay out for those warranty repairs. If they change their warranty to requiring the customer to pay a "trip charge" they can lower what they pay out for warranty repairs to the techs (no longer paying for their travel time), thereby lowering the cost of the appliance (by that amount). Or, it may simply be a way for them to not raise their prices, as the cost of materials going into the product rises. As a consumer you're simply getting a lower initial cost yet bearing some of the costs of any needed warranty repairs.
So, maytag is now PAYING the service companies LESS to do any warranty repairs that they were paying before. Remember. a service tech is entitled to get paid for the work they perform. Now some dealers may waive the trip charge as a "service" to their customers, but remember, THEY TOO are entitled to making at least enough money to break even....... maybe even a profit ;) They're making a "profit" when they initially sell the spa, and more than likely, if they're waiving the "trip charge", their tacking on a little extra to the initial cost to cover that.
Free = something you pay for that's not itemized on the bill. Warranties are not free. It's an expense that's calculated and added into the total price of the product. Reduce the warranty and you can reduce the cost of the product.
I understand how a trip charge doesn't seem fair. We're not used to it and it appears to just be an extra cost. In reality, it's something you've ALWAYS paid for, it was just paid for upfront and not itemized on the original invoice.
Going back the beginning of your post. No, they're not getting paid twice, persay. But, rather than getting paid 100% from maytag, they're now only getting, say, 70% from maytag and the remaining 30% of the "total cost of performing the repair" is coming from the customer.
Hi Dr. Spa,
So if someone buys a Maytag washer at Best Buy and they need it fix, the appliance company that is a Maytag authorized servicer should or could charge a trip charge AND get paid from Maytag ( because they will get paid from Maytag) to fix it under warranty??
If this is the case I would love to have someone ( a hot tub employee) call me to fix there appliance under warranty. ( and get paid twice for the job)
I just dont understand why this could or should happen. Its under warranty from hs, d1, sundance or any other manufacture. No one should be charged under a warranty repair no matter were they buy it.
In my opinion,
but thats
just me
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Hi Dr. Spa,
So if someone buys a Maytag washer at Best Buy and they need it fix, the appliance company that is a Maytag authorized servicer should or could charge a trip charge AND get paid from Maytag ( because they will get paid from Maytag) to fix it under warranty??
If this is the case I would love to have someone ( a hot tub employee) call me to fix there appliance under warranty. ( and get paid twice for the job)
I just dont understand why this could or should happen. Its under warranty from hs, d1, sundance or any other manufacture. No one should be charged under a warranty repair no matter were they buy it.
In my opinion,
but thats
just me
This is one of those debated topics and it seems in the hot tub world some dealers do have trip charges even to it's own customers. And Maytag isn't Maytag anymore either!
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... if they're waiving the "trip charge", their tacking on a little extra to the initial cost to cover that.
Free = something you pay for that's not itemized on the bill. Warranties are not free. It's an expense that's calculated and added into the total price of the product. Reduce the warranty and you can reduce the cost of the product.
I understand how a trip charge doesn't seem fair. We're not used to it and it appears to just be an extra cost. In reality, it's something you've ALWAYS paid for, it was just paid for upfront and not itemized on the original invoice.
Excellent point!
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Hi All Dealer,
Lets say that I live in Salt Lake and buy a hot tub from a dealer "manufactured by one of the top companies" In November-05. Now its August-06 and I now live in Kansas City, will the local dealer of this hot tub charge me a trip charges to come out and fix under warranty because I did not buy it from him??
All imput would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Just Me
Short answer is it depends on the specific dealer. Some may, others may not.
Some dealers charge all their customers trip fees, even ones who bought from them.
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Hi All,
Thank you Venny for letting me know what Maytag is or is not.
As a appliance repair company owner we do not charge our customers to repair there appliances under warranty not even if its 50 or more miles away. Maytag ( or what ever manufacture GE, Whirlpool or LG ) pays the repair company, and it don't matter if it is a $250.00 or a $900.00 washer its fix for free under warrnaty
A 1 year parts and labor is just that 1 year parts and labor. ( NOT because you didnt buy it from me I will charge you a trip charge to fix your appliance that you didnt buy it from me
( Is Ford still Ford) If I buy a new car no matter what Ford dealership I take it to if it is under warranty I get it fixed for free. They dont charge me just because I live in a different city.
just me
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Hi All,
Thank you Venny for letting me know what Maytag is or is not.
As a appliance repair company owner we do not charge our customers to repair there appliances under warranty not even if its 50 or more miles away. Maytag ( or what ever manufacture GE, Whirlpool or LG ) pays the repair company.
A 1 year parts and labor is just that 1 year parts and labor. ( NOT because you didnt buy it from me I will charge you a trip charge to fix your appliance that you didnt buy it from me
( Is Ford still Ford) If I buy a new car no matter what Ford dealership I take it to if it is under warranty I get it fixed for free. They dont charge me just because I live in a different city.
just me
My parents owned Maytag and lasted forever and I bought a Maytag because of how good they WERE and that was what my comment is about. You Maytag repair people aren't lonely anymore! 8-) I remember Jesse White!
Yes, Ford is Ford but Amana is Maytag is Whirlpool, Chrysler is MB (or is it the other way around) ,LG owns Zenith ...
BTW, I'm on your side. But the analogy was said not to be the same. Apparently the selling dealer made the money to support you and it is up to them to service you unless you move and take your tub. But a couple of weeks ago Bonibelle was upset that her plumber charged her a gas fee or something like that.
I guess some industries are not doing the trip charge thing yet.
Since you repair Maytags, both my washer and dryer have a problem ... :)
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I could be wrong here, but I thought it had more to do with some dealers just have trip charges and some dealers do not, not whether or not you actually bought the tub from them. (Though, I could see that also being a part of it, especially if it wasn't there brand of tub...)
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Hi All,
As a appliance repair company owner we do not charge our customers to repair there appliances under warranty not even if its 50 or more miles away.
A 1 year parts and labor is just that 1 year parts and labor. ( NOT because you didnt buy it from me I will charge you a trip charge to fix your appliance that you didnt buy it from me
I understand this, but tell me, how do you cover the costs of doing the warranty work, and the possible 50 mile, 100 miles round trip, of travel costs?
( Is Ford still Ford) If I buy a new car no matter what Ford dealership I take it to if it is under warranty I get it fixed for free. They dont charge me just because I live in a different city.
THANK YOU for using this example........... "no matter what Ford dealership I take it to".......... So ah, the dealer isn't covering a cost of coming to YOU. Vehicle expenses (tires, gas, oil, wear and tear, not to mention the wages of the service tech doing the driving). Remembr, we're talking trip, or trravel charges, and there's no travel costs when YOU BRING IT IN. Bring in your spa and I guarantee no dealer will charge a trip charge ;D
I own a number of vehicles. The high end one actually has a warranty that includes towing if it breaks down. The Izuzu PU though? If it wont run, the dealer will fix it for free, but I have to pay the tow truck to get it there (trip charge)
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Hi Dr Spa,
I would not have a problem paying for a trip charge for excessive miles, but to charge me a trip charge in town for a warranty job just because I did not buy the spa from them is outrageous and more so if I bought the spa from you ( not you per-say (sp))
Don't you dealers get paid from the manufacture? If not why to you do warranty work? If you do why do you charge the customer a trip charge? ( what is customer service, not much in the spa world by what I see)
I would love for someone to post on the forum were it says in the warranty that there is a trip charge for a repair, or is it that the dealer is just blowing smoke up the comsumers a$$ and the manufacture has no idea that the dealer is messing up the reputation of the manufacture by doing so, or is it that we as consumers are just so stupid that we just sit back and take it.
I still have not seen what Tex has to say about this (can hardly wait)
I was 110% ready to get my diplomat from a D1 dealer until I heard this $hit, now I wonder if all dealers do this?
I wait to see, but thats,
just me
ps
bull $hit towing is trip charge,, please pay me trip charge to fix the compressor on your (yes your) $2000 frig that is under warranty and then give me a smile.
pss
That is why I have towing on my insurance, so please charge me insurance so I dont have a trip charge. thank you
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Hi to all that are viewing this post,
Even if you are not a dealer, what do you think about a trip charge?
And did you know the the local dealer would or could do this to you, and now it is nice to know that if you move and take the tub with you that this could happen to you.
I have not even gotten my tub, but this really makes me think.
Would also love your input.
This makes me mad, if you knew that General Elecrtic would do this to you but Whirlpool would not what company would you buy from?
But thats,
just me
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If someone owns a HotSpring Spa and they moved it to East Texas from Timbuctu, we would not charge them a dime under warranty. If it is out of warranty, they get charged $60/hr plus parts, same as everyone else. If they live in East Texas and they go buy a HotSpring Spa in West Texas, the West Texas dealer can service it. We won't.
It is at our discretion but we always try to be reasonable. :)
Terminator
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There you are Tex ;D
But per my first post if I got a hot tub in colorado ( or wherever and move it into your area would you charge me a trip charge to fix it under warranty?
Thanks for your time T
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No sir, we don't do trip charges for spas under warranty.
If you lived down the street from my store, and you went and bought one in Colorado because it was on sale, and you moved it down here yourself, we would not service it. The Colorado dealer would be responsible for it.
You're welcome. :)
Terminator
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What if, the averages show that on average there will be 1 warranty repair required.
Now say GE sells the item for $140 but charges a $10 trip fee for warranty work. Whirlpool charges $150 for the item, but nothing for the trip charge? The odds are, you're going to pay the exact same for either item........ BUT, GE's marketing department feels that their policy gives them a marketing advantage, by being able to offer a lower initial price.
That's really all it is. It's marketing. The consumer is going to pay for warranty repairs one way or another. Either in the initial cost, or in possible added trip charges.
As far as manufacturers paying dealer for warranty work..... You bet they do....... But frequently it's a pittance. Here's a real life example;
I have a friend that's an independent service tech. He charges $70 for the first half hour, and then $20 for each additional 1/4 hour. This is what he has to charge to stay in business
I wont go into all the cost associated with operating a business, but some are insurance, phones, licenses, vehicle costs, 15% SSI tax blah blah blah... If you've never had your own business you would be surprised what it costs. Anyway, he also does warranty work for a few manufacturers. One specifies in their warranty that the consumer may be required to pay a trip charge for warranty repairs. This manufacturer pays $45 for any warranty repair (there are some exceptions). $45... This isn't enough for "my friend" to cover his costs of doing business. At $45, he's losing money. He charges a trip fee as the warranty says is applicable.
Manufacturer #2 does not charge for travel and pays a little more, but not much. They pay $65 per warranty repair (same exceptions). It's almost his basic minimum charge, but a little less . The way he makes up for it is he has up to 2 weeks to show up for the warranty call. Hopefully he'll have another call in the same area, close by, that he can do at the same time thereby reducing his travel time.
BTW, most dealers are required to perform the warranty work if they want to carry that line of spa.
It really all boils down to the manufacturer trying to cut their costs, to reduce their prices, to be more competitive with the guy across the street. One manufacturer does it, then another follows suit, then another. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it, and you don't have to buy a spa that charges a trip charge. Just remember, if you wont be charged a trip charge for warranty work, you're simply paying upfront for it in the initial price of the spa without it being an itemized cost.
PS, I'm not a "dealer" per say, and have never charged a trip charge. I am though a logical thinking person ;)
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Hi Tex,
I'm so --cken confused.
So if I got the hot tub from you no trip charge (this is a "Hotspring" hot tub)
I buy it when I live in Colorado and move into your area 6-12 moths later, and it breaks down, you as a hotspring dealer you can charge me a trip charge to fix it or not fix it at all ( now I have to get the colorado company to fix it). I never said anything about a better deal ( see what Im saying about bubbles in blood stream to effect the brain in the next few paragraphs)
Sorry to say this but I dont think the posts are read closely enough before they are replied to, maybe to many bubbles in blood stream to effect the brain.
Yes I'm getting a little testy, but I cant get a straight answer, but I see this in a lot of the posts that appear on this site. So much confusion maybe its the ozon
but that
just me
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Dr. Spa,
If you dont know already, I know about overhead if you would have read my last posts closely. ( bubbles in the blood stream)
but you still cant answer my question directly ( oh I just got it he's a lawyer) and he gets 1/3 of the suit to win.
but thats
just me
ps please dont post unless you have a reasonable answer for this bbbbbbssssssss
pss Dr. Spa
Please let me know what appliance company charges you for a trip charge for a appliance that is under warranty, your last post was BS just in 3 words or less tell me what applaince company chages you a trip charge.
and for the third time tell me what appliance company or manufacturer will charge you a trip charge to fix your appliance.
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Maybe we all have "bubbles in the brain", but it seems to me that you are getting straight answers to the best of our ability, just not the ones you want, and if anyone appeared not to read the previous posts closely before responding, it was you. Nonetheless, I'll take one more swing at it from a buyer's perspective.
Do I like the idea of trip charges: no -- especially if they aren't fully disclosed at purchase.
Would I be mad about it: No. It seems to me that if I know up front (and I should be able to by reading the warranty) that some brands/dealers do this, I am free to decide whether to purchase or not. Now, if it was hidden from me, or the dealer was trying to charge something not provided for in the contract -- I would indeed be mad. If I'm too lazy to read the contract, that's on me. I won't be happy about it, and I'll probably argue, but in the end... it is on me.
Would it keep me from buying a given spa that I liked best: not likely. I view a warranty like I do other insurance -- I don't expect to use it, but I want some protection in case I was wrong. I definitely don't buy something inferior just because it has a great warranty. In your GE/Whirlpool example, I'd buy whichever seemed the best choice overall, but if quality/features/price/appearance are identical, yes -- I'd pick the better warranty -- but it usually seems to me that things with better warranties cost more. The company usually claims that this is because of better quality, which allows them to offer a better warranty... but could it be that you are just buying a better insurance policy? Hmmm.
As Doc said, warranty costs are a part of the price of the spa, and more complete coverage probably results in a higher initial price of the spa. When some dealers inevitably chime in that they don't charge trip fees, you would need to know their selling margins to know if they are truly giving their customers any more than a dealer who charges a fee.
Since this is important to you, luckily you hit on it before you finalized a deal. Now you can be sure to ask about it before you buy, check the warranty to make sure the dealer is telling you the whole story, and factor the answers into your decision. Good luck to you!
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Dr. Spa,
pss Dr. Spa
Please let me know what appliance company charges you for a trip charge for a appliance that is under warranty, your last post was BS just in 3 words or less tell me what applaince company chages you a trip charge.
Me thinks you didn't read my post very closely ;D. Never did I say any appliance company charges me a trip charge. I did however attempt to use an annalogy based on your own example.
Even if they did, I couldn't answer your question as the company I've purchased most of my appliances from has 5 words in their name ;D :o :P ;D ;D
ps, well said Reese.
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Hi Reese,
Thats just it, can you show me in any spa companys warranty that its says there is a trip charge for a hot tub that was bought in a a different city of state
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Hi All,
( Is Ford still Ford) If I buy a new car no matter what Ford dealership I take it to if it is under warranty I get it fixed for free. They dont charge me just because I live in a different city.
just me
Does Ford come to your house? Or, do you take your car to the Ford dealership? You can't really take your spa "in" , but I am sure if Ford went to your house you would be charged a trip fee.
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Sorry, can't help you on that one. The only warranty I have access to is for a 7 year old tub, and I'd have to dig to find it. I would imagine the section that addresses it would talk about the "dealers right to charge a reasonable fee for service call" and it would likely not just be for tubs moved out of state. I'd expect that the dealer you buy the tub from would have the right to charge you, too. They might waive it for their own customers, for the reasons I addressed early in this discussion.
You are going to have to ask some dealers for warranties and read them over. Since it appears this topic has come up with your D1 dealer, I'm sure he can show you where it is provided for in their documentation. Perhaps Terminator can also show you the clause that allows them to refuse to service a tub purchased out of market. I'd also check a couple of mfgrs websites to see if they publish their warranty. Good night!
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call the local dealer and find out. It's the individual dealer's preference. We don't.
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Me thinks you need a spa to relax!!
Term did answer you - HIS dealership does not charge a service fee if you bought a spa in Colorado and moved yourself and your spa to his area. His dealership WILL NOT service your spa under warranty if you purchased it in Colorado to get a better deal. After warranty everyone gets charged the same. How anny dealership could know what's going on in your life - I couldn't tell you.
But another Hot Spring dealer may charge a fee.
I think it's because in your business you don't see the fee. As Doc said, it probably is built into the price of the appliance. At $900 for a washer, I would think it is too.
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Hi Tex,
I'm so --cken confused.
So if I got the hot tub from you no trip charge (this is a "Hotspring" hot tub)
[glow]Correct. We DO NOT DO trip charges for spas under warranty.[/glow]
I buy it when I live in Colorado and move into your area 6-12 moths later, and it breaks down, you as a hotspring dealer you can charge me a trip charge to fix it or not fix it at all.
[glow]We WILL NOT charge you a trip charge as long as the spa is under warranty.[/glow]
just me
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And the last one......... You live next door to Term and drive to Colorado to buy a Hot Spring Spa to get a better deal. Term will NOT service you.........
Yes I know, there's an Ole Meaness joke in there, but I'm taking Sunday off.
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In the grand scheme of things, is a trip charge for a service call all that big of a deal?
For a decent spa, we're shucking out say $8K, probably more if you count electrical, site prep, and the like.
And hundreds of dollars in interest for those who choose to borrow the money.
Or somewhat less than hundreds of dollars in lost interest from taking the money out of the bank.
Then we're paying hundreds of dollars per year to the electric company, and depending on the system, potentially hundreds of dollars per year for chemicals, filters, and such.
And in the unlikely event that the spa needs service we worry about paying $60 (or whatever) to get the spa back up and running?
If my spa breaks down in -20 degree winter temperatures, the last thing I'm fretting about is weather or not I have to pay for a trip fee.
Remember- there is no free lunch. We all pay one way or another- business must recoup all expenses before they can make a profit. Far be it from me to try to second guess how a spa dealer needs to price things to make a living.
PS-
My Magtag washing machine just gave up the ghost last night.
When I get home from work tonite, I get the fun of wash machine shopping.
I'm thinking that Maytag isn't going to be the brand I buy. They used to make a really solid washing machine, and used to charge a premium price for that reliability.
But I'm with whoever posted farther back saying that the Maytag repairmen are not all the lonely anymore. Notice how that add isn't running now?
Didn't Whirlpool just buy Maytag a few months ago?
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Read your warranty and see if it states you can/may be charged a travel fee. If so, you have nothing to be upset about. When you buy a product you agree to the terms of the warranty. ;)
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Brewman, that is a realistic response. I commend your real life approach.
Those who do not charge a trip charge, or at least say they don't, are obviously making an adquate margin on their particular brand to support their expenses. Many dealers, even those who sell quality lines, like D1 that has been mentioned, must compete and play the shopper's game of negotiations IF he wants the business, thus they must be very competitive in pricing to get the business. Maybe it is because he is not afforded the bragging rights or arrogance of being able to say his brand is number one out of say 140+ when maybe they are only number 3 out of 140+.
Regardless, the consumer wants the best quality at the best price and then everything free after that. Why do shoppers think they are going to go broke needing warranty service. Many of them may never need a service call and all of this fret could be over nothing other than their own imagination.
As for those who do not charge a "trip fee" for warranty work, they make money someplace to afford their expenses. I am aware of one HS dealer who says they do not charge for warranty work, but written on the bottom of their sales contract, "all warranty services are provided at our main facility only". THAT is a "bring it in" clause, because they do charge a trip charge to come out and it is not known until after the need arises, sometimes it never will.
I think the D1 dealer who says it up front, but in this case the shopper deceids not to buy, is at least being HONEST and could be a very good choice. ;)
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It occured top me last night............... Many people wheel and deal, bargan, and haggle over the price of a spa. Some get a lower price, others get the dealer to throw in extras with the deal.............. Soooooooooo, if a "trip charge" is part of the warranty, bargin with the dealer to waive any trip charges while the spa is under warranty. Just be sure to GET IT IN WRITING on the sales contract.
(This next part I will remove if I get too many hate mails via PM ;D)
If the dealer wont agree to it, you might even mention something to the effect of, perhaps they don't believe in their product and it will need a lot of warranty repairs?
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If the dealer wont agree to it, you might even mention something to the effect of, perhaps they don't believe in their product and it will need a lot of warranty repairs?
My dad use to say that all the time to sales people pushing the extended warranties for washers, dryers and other appliiances.
My dealer, before they went on the run from the law use to have a trip charge, but if you worked with them, they waved it 90% of the time. By work with them, I mean that if it wasn't an emergency we would try to get a couple calls in the same area. It never took more than 2-3 days.
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Doc, I did just that and believe it or not, that was one of the reasons that I chose my dealer. He had no problem with coming to my house for warranty repair work with NO service charge (and no Fuel Surcharge!). I just went rounds with Sears over a warranty issue for my dishwasher and when they started on the extended warranty BS, I told them I feel like buying an extended warranty is like betting against your good judgment when you bought that item. You are betting that it is going to fail...and paying to prove it. >:(
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My dad use to say that all the time to sales people pushing the extended warranties for washers, dryers and other appliiances.
hahahahahahahahahha, I ALWAYS do that, but go one step further. I'll ask if they think the extended warranty is necessary. Of course they say "yes", they're in sales ;). Then I'll turn to walk away and say something like, "I think I'll go find something a little more dependable"....
You know, extended warranties are one of the most profitable acpects for many stores. Commmissions can be as high as %50. In fact, there's are some stroes that sell the merchandise at COST and make ALL their profits on the extended warranties.
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In the grand scheme of things, is a trip charge for a service call all that big of a deal?
Remember- there is no free lunch. We all pay one way or another- business must recoup all expenses before they can make a profit. Far be it from me to try to second guess how a spa dealer needs to price things to make a living.
I own a sales/service business, although not spas. It would be a huge deal for my customers if i charged for warranty work if they were not aware, in advance. Not just a 8 pt. statement in the warranty, put a face-to-face admission that the warranty has strings attached.
I agree that there is no free lunch, but the spa dealer needs to be up-front about trip charges if he charges them.
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[/quote]
I agree that there is no free lunch, but the spa dealer needs to be up-front about trip charges if he charges them.[/quote]
Agreed- and it's totally to the businesses benefit to disclose this to any potential customers. I gotta think that dealers who don't disclose this get confronted with irate customers when they get billed for a warranty call.
My dealer doesn't charge a trip fee, but even if they did, I'd have still bought from them cause I wanted the exact spa I got, and trip fee wasn't part of the consideration. Too small of a dollar amount for me to take too seriously.
The original post asked about a dealer in some other part of the country charging a trip fee for an in warranty spa, and to me, why worry about something you can't control. Will it impact you move decision- if there is no trip charge for warranty service I'll bring my spa with me cross country, but if there is a fee, I might not?
It's an interesting point for discussion, but largely unanswerable.
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Brewman, maybe I read too deeply into things, but by the no warranty trip charge this is what I believed:
He probably didn't need to charge a trip charge because he didn't expect to make that many warranty calls...a good indication he has a reliable product.
He realized that if something says it is warranted, that means IF something breaks during that period, I should no incur ANY out of pocket expenses to bring it back to working condition.
If my dealer said, yes it is warranted, but I will have to charge you to come out to do the work, I don't really consider that warranted...beccause a spa isn't something that I can return to the store for repairs, part of that warranty has to include coming to the spa.
:-/
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He probably didn't need to charge a trip charge because he didn't expect to make that many warranty calls...a good indication he has a reliable product.
Sorry Bonibelle, but we always seem to be on different pages. IMO, although it could be an indication it is a quality product, it is more likely an indication that they have factored the cost of warranty calls into the margin they target on the initial sale of the spa, either by proactive cost accounting or just by knowing that they need X margin on each spa to keep the doors open. As Doc said, "free = something you pay for that is not itemized in the bill". Granted, a quality product may require a smaller warranty contribution to the margin than one with lots of trouble, but unless you know each dealer's/manufacturer's margin, you have no way to know whether "no warranty fee" is an indication of good quality or a high-priced spa. :-?
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Hi All,
( Is Ford still Ford) If I buy a new car no matter what Ford dealership I take it to if it is under warranty I get it fixed for free. They dont charge me just because I live in a different city.
just me
This true but you must get your vehicle to the dealership for repairs they do not come to you.
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As it has already been mentioned here. I believe it is in most if not all spa warranties that a dealer "may" charge a trip fee. I think the reason that so many people have such a hard time with spas and comparing them to many other industries like autos or appliances is that most simply do not understand the size difference in the industry's. Spas simply are on a much of a smaller scale that is simply not reasonable to think they will always be the same as other industries.
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This is why people i tell you dealers don't matter, and the price you pay for your spa makes all the savings.
As long as you buy a good name brand quality spa with a good warranty which covers the parts and labor, you'll be all set.
Me, I don't care if my dealer charged me for travel. In fact I don't think we ever even discussed it. For all I know he does. I'd pay it if he said he did. Hell he's 2 hours away I'm sure he will.
I saved thousands on my spa, plus I have a 5 year warranty on the parts and labor.
Am I ever going to pay thousands in trips charges? Nope
Shop around, after your done, keep shopping
.
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I saved thousands on my spa, plus I have a 5 year warranty on the parts and labor.
Since the search function only allows me to go back 50 posts, I couldn't find anything about the deal you got. Would you please update me on how you were able to "save thousands" on your spa?
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I forgot something..
If you save thousands by traveling hours away, or even out of state while shopping/buying a hot tub...
Make sure you stop by your (close to home) dealer and tell them you just moved here from timbuktu and moved your hot tub with you and are just wondering if they would be able to service your spa if you ever had a problem.
So essentially lie to them so they don't know you shopped around for the best deal.
Thanks for the buying tip Mr. Texas, I'll make sure to include this in my posts when necessary as a buyer tip for newbie’s
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Here is my recommendation for getting the best deal....
First and foremost you need to know at least one, two, maybe three models your interested in. This can be multiple manufactures.
Next, call around (it's cheaper than driving) all dealers for those models up to 2-3 hours away from you and get prices on the the brand new leftover models you are interested in.
The further away from the city you go, the better deal you get and the better chances you have for finding leftovers.
So after they tell you the price and everything it comes with:
cover
lifter
steps
startup chemicals
delivery + setup
etc...
Give it some thought, call them back and counter offer the following...
I'll buy right now if you take off $800 and..
No steps
No startup chemicals
No deliver + setup
I will pick up tub.
This is a similar(not exact by any means) of what I did.
I bought a brand new leftover
05 Artesian Opal for $6177 about 2 months ago.
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Make sure you stop by your (close to home) dealer and tell them you just moved here from timbuktu and moved your hot tub with you and are just wondering if they would be able to service your spa if you ever had a problem.
[/b]
Yep, you can tell the close to home dealer that you just moved, but your sales invoice will tell them your address.
Any dealer with half a brain will request the sales invoice on spas they didn’t sell. Yes, front and back of the invoice too. Just to make sure that it doesn’t have a fake address and directions to your real house on the back. Dealers with a whole brain will check their lead books over the past few years and ask for the sales invoice.
Funniest one I heard: A customer had his brother buy the spa at a lower price then when the guy needed service, the brothers name was on the sales contract. Sorry warranties are non-transferable. We charge $75 an hour to fix – would you like for me to set-up an appointment?
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Make sure you stop by your (close to home) dealer and tell them you just moved here from timbuktu and moved your hot tub with you and are just wondering if they would be able to service your spa if you ever had a problem.
[/b]
Yep, you can tell the close to home dealer that you just moved, but your sales invoice will tell them your address.
Yup, it took me all of about 0.3 seconds to figure that out as well. I guess we're not quite as dumb as Mr. Humility, the great spa shopping guru Sledjunkie, thinks we are. I always love when his kind come to these sites with all the answers.
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Wow I suppose you took offense to that...
And I agree any dealer with half a brain would request (not require) a sales invoice, however most don't have....
uhhh ummm.
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I bought a brand new leftover
05 Artesian Opal for $6177 about 2 months ago.
I have no idea what Artesian pricing is. What was a comparable 06 selling for?
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Yup, it took me all of about 0.3 seconds to figure that out as well. I guess we're not quite as dumb as Mr. Humility, the great spa shopping guru Sledjunkie, thinks we are. I always love when his kind come to these sites with all the answers.
Well it only took me .2 seconds.
And I agree any dealer with half a brain would request (not require) a sales invoice, however most don't have....
When service is needed most dealers will require the invoice. Dealers don't enjoy being screwed out of a sale so this their payback for your purchase especially if you wasted their time.
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This is why people i tell you dealers don't matter, and the price you pay for your spa makes all the savings.
As long as you buy a good name brand quality spa with a good warranty which covers the parts and labor, you'll be all set.
Me, I don't care if my dealer charged me for travel. In fact I don't think we ever even discussed it. For all I know he does. I'd pay it if he said he did. Hell he's 2 hours away I'm sure he will.
I saved thousands on my spa, plus I have a 5 year warranty on the parts and labor.
Am I ever going to pay thousands in trips charges? Nope
Shop around, after your done, keep shopping
.
You didn't save thousands on your spa! You did save some money though.
A 2004 Artesian Emerald was going for about $7500 at my dealer, prices went up about $600 for 2005 and the Opal was priced at about $500 cheaper (smaller spa than the Emerald and Island series was priced this way). As I see it you probably got about $1500 off. It was a 2005 in the middle of 2006 and the dealer wanted to get rid of it since the 2006 are different than the 2005.
You did get a good price but you make it sound like you got a $9000 spa for $6100.
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As I see it you probably got about $1500 off. It was a 2005 in the middle of 2006 and the dealer wanted to get rid of it since the 2006 are different than the 2005. You did get a good price but you make it sound like you got a $9000 spa for $6100.
Sledjunkie,
It was still money in your pocket, but when you factor in the time spent calling dealers, driving 4 hours round trip to get the spa, and the cost of handling even one repair two hours from your dealer... I think "saved thousands" is overstating it a bit .
With a name like Sledjunkie you should appreciate this. I have an uncle who was in the snowmobile business, who had a similar customer come in for drive belt on a sled that he purchased 50 miles away to get a better deal. My uncle said he had one, but needed to save it in case one of the customers who bought a sled from him came in. The out-of-town buyer complained that his sled was stranded out on a river, that it would take him two hours to drive to the next dealer and back, and it would be dark by then. My uncle told him he better get going! After the man left, my uncle laughed and said he forgot to remind him that by the time the customer made it to the other dealer, the store would be closed. He then took me into the parts area, and showed me a case of the belts. I asked why he didn't sell the man one? He replied that if all he got to sell was belts, he wouldn't be able to stay in business, and people need to realize that the costs of ownership involve more than what you pay up front. I doubt the customer got that message, because I'm sure he thought my uncle was just a jerk -- but obviously, I did, because I still remember that story 30 years later.
Given your previously stated disdain for people who make a living selling things... I can see that supporting a local business is probably not a concern of yours. I'm not a dealer or a salesperson, but I can't help wonder... how smug will you feel, if the one time you need a repair is a February Saturday afternoon? Good luck to you!
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I did save thousands. Well I suppose it depends on what your comparing. I'm comparing my 05 Opal against an 06 Opal. The dealerships are closed now, but tomorrow I will call and get a price on a comprable 06 Opal and let you know.
You watch it will be in the 8-9K range, which is what is was 3 months ago when I was shopping.
Remember, I stated I saved thousands by getting a leftover, plus picking up my spa myself, plus shopping around, etc...
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I have to say that IF a 2006 Opal is $9000 that is a rip off IMO. In Oct 2004, the Emerald was $7500, I know prices went up about $600 in 2005 and I assumed it went up about the same in 2006 that's $8700 for the Emerald. As I said Artesian priced it's Island tubs at about $500 lower for each size depending on the jet and pump configuration. The Opal is the smaller verison of the Emerald so I would say $8200 tops. I wouldn't pay that much money for a 7x7 tub, even if it was an Artesian.
I guess the fact is I AM CHEAP!! The truth of the matter I wouldn't pay that for any tub ... and I didn't!
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Vinny, your not cheap. I feel the same way. I wouldn't pay that much for any tub either. It's simply too much money for a hot tub in my opinion.
Now you have me wondering about the Opal price...
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I forgot something.......essentially lie to them so they don't know you shopped around for the best deal.
Here in lies the underlying problem of relationships. For someone who has such disdain for others, there seems to be something seriously lacking in character and integrity.
I wonder if it is all right for your children to lie to you or even to others to meet their needs as well. ;)
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Vinny, your not cheap. I feel the same way. I wouldn't pay that much for any tub either. It's simply too much money for a hot tub in my opinion.
Now you have me wondering about the Opal price...
The truth is that pricing is something that can't really be compared. My price is NJ and in 2004 I got a price for my tub of about $7000 and another person bought their tub for $6000 but I still got a good price .... for NJ. I think some dealers blow smoke up people's butts and maybe mine did to me.
Be happy with the price you got, it's a good price (maybe a great price) but remember not everyone is going to haul their tub around.
I also wonder as you played hardball with them, what might be up their sleeve. Maybe they might dishonor the warranty because they didn't install it, maybe they will have a trip charge or maybe they're OK with it. Whenever I call, my dealer seems to remember me and hopefully I haven't been a P.I.T.A that when my tub breaks in the winter they will come out.
And speaking of the warranty and trip charge, maybe I'm stupid but to me having the warranty and NOT USING THE WARRANTY are 2 different thing ... I hope never to use my warranty (OK I have but it's just been jets)!
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In the grand scheme of things, is a trip charge for a service call all that big of a deal?
For a decent spa, we're shucking out say $8K, probably more if you count electrical, site prep, and the like.
And hundreds of dollars in interest for those who choose to borrow the money.
Or somewhat less than hundreds of dollars in lost interest from taking the money out of the bank.
Then we're paying hundreds of dollars per year to the electric company, and depending on the system, potentially hundreds of dollars per year for chemicals, filters, and such.
And in the unlikely event that the spa needs service we worry about paying $60 (or whatever) to get the spa back up and running?
If my spa breaks down in -20 degree winter temperatures, the last thing I'm fretting about is weather or not I have to pay for a trip fee.
Remember- there is no free lunch. We all pay one way or another- business must recoup all expenses before they can make a profit. Far be it from me to try to second guess how a spa dealer needs to price things to make a living.
PS-
My Magtag washing machine just gave up the ghost last night.
When I get home from work tonite, I get the fun of wash machine shopping.
I'm thinking that Maytag isn't going to be the brand I buy. They used to make a really solid washing machine, and used to charge a premium price for that reliability.
But I'm with whoever posted farther back saying that the Maytag repairmen are not all the lonely anymore. Notice how that add isn't running now?
Didn't Whirlpool just buy Maytag a few months ago?
Ok,
Here's another scenario.
The local dealer goes out of bubusiness 1-2 years after I buy my spa from him.
He charges a $65.00 trip charge to go 3.85 miles to fix my spa under warranty, so now the closest dealer in 85 miles away. I wonder what he's going to charge?
Can someone give me some input on this?
I'm sorry Brewman but these are things I have to worry about, I may not be as well off financually as you are and I need this hot tub for my wifes medical problems, I don't have medical coverage because I can't afforde it and when I ask my dealer to cut the cost my $500 they would not even think about it,,, so yes I am looking for a better price for the tub my wife likes and yes it makes me mad that now I might and probebly will get charge a trip charge ( $65.00 trip charge to go 3.85 miles to fix my spa under warranty) If I dont get the tub from local dealer, and not only that but when the heater goes out under warranty the heater only cost $50 if I did the repair myself Im sure this would void the warranty.
I wouldn't own any appliance that was not made my whirlpool and defiantly only buy washer and dryers ( side by side ) that are made by whirlpool they are the best,
but thats,
just me
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I may not be as well off financually as you are and I need this hot tub for my wifes medical problems, I don't have medical coverage because I can't afforde it and when I ask my dealer to cut the cost my $500 they would not even think about it,,, so yes I am looking for a better price for the tub my wife likes and yes it makes me mad that now I might and probebly will get charge a trip charge ( $65.00 trip charge to go 3.85 miles to fix my spa under warranty) If I dont get the tub from local dealer, and not only that but when the heater goes out under warranty the heater only cost $50 if I did the repair myself Im sure this would void the warranty.
Given your situation and expertise, I would think a used tub is the way to go. Then the warranty won't be an issue, and all the money you save will help toward medical expenses. Perhaps the dealer you are battling with even has something in his warehouse waiting for a repair before resale, or could find a warranty return at the factory, perhaps the model your wife wants! You could do the work yourself and save even more money. With your background, evaluating a used tub should be a piece of cake, and repairs even easier!
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Reese -
Thanks for sharing your story.
Shame on that snowmobiler for not carrying a spare belt. Always carry a spare belt. Snowmobiling 101.
Also I think your Uncle was wrong for not selling him a belt. That was just a stupid move on his part. Is that why he's out of business, for pulling stunts like that? Word get's around in those northern most small towns.
So are you saying your Uncle was upset because he bought his snowmobile somewhere else?
Similar to how Mr. Texas is won't take care of customers who go elsewhere for a better deal?
Taking care of the customer regardless will most likely help your business as when you take care of them, the customer will probably come back and buy something someday. If you turn them away, they will never come back.
If you can't sell something because your price is higher than someone else, either lower your price to make the sale, or don't sell. But don't be upset.
That's business.
All of us shop for a good price, whether it be home depot, sears, buying a car, a house, computer, etc.
And you wonder why Spa prices are so high.
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Clover -
I wouldn't teach my two daughters to lie, not at the young age their at now.
However, when they get older, you better beleive I'm going to teach them the real world. How to negotiate with salesman, etc...
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Ok,
Here's another scenario.
The local dealer goes out of bubusiness 1-2 years after I buy my spa from him.
He charges a $65.00 trip charge to go 3.85 miles to fix my spa under warranty, so now the closest dealer in 85 miles away. I wonder what he's going to charge?
Can someone give me some input on this?
I'm sorry Brewman but these are things I have to worry about, I may not be as well off financually as you are and I need this hot tub for my wifes medical problems, I don't have medical coverage because I can't afforde it and when I ask my dealer to cut the cost my $500 they would not even think about it,,, so yes I am looking for a better price for the tub my wife likes and yes it makes me mad that now I might and probebly will get charge a trip charge ( $65.00 trip charge to go 3.85 miles to fix my spa under warranty) If I dont get the tub from local dealer, and not only that but when the heater goes out under warranty the heater only cost $50 if I did the repair myself Im sure this would void the warranty.
I wouldn't own any appliance that was not made my whirlpool and defiantly only buy washer and dryers ( side by side ) that are made by whirlpool they are the best,
but thats,
just me
You can wonder what the 85 mile away dealer is going to charge all you want- nobody here can give you that answer, because as you're finding out it varies by dealer policy. There is no pat answer to this question. Unless you know it's a specific dealership and you ask them what their policies are.
Nobody can tell you the policies of a theoretical dealer.
The thing you can control is that you can choose to buy a spa from a dealer that charges no trip fee to you if they make a warranty call.
As long as that dealer stays in business you're covered.
If they go under, change brands, or you move away and take your spa, all bets are off, and that's where the "what if...." stuff gets fuzzy.
My answer to you is that most dealers probably have the lattitude to impose trip fees if that's how they wan't to run their business.
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Similar to how Mr. Texas is won't take care of customers who go elsewhere for a better deal?
If they buy somewhere else, they're not my customer. They are the other dealers customer. We take care of ALL of our customers, they should take care of theirs.
If they cannot service THEIR customer, why should we? Maybe they shouldn't sell a spa to someone if they are not going to service the spa afterwards. We have our OWN customers to take care of and it would not be fair to them.
Been doing it this way for 21 years, OUR customers are happy, so don't fret about it sledjunkie. Dealers aren't important anyway so why do you even care? :)
Terminator
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Just called a dealer.
06 Opal $8200. And he didn't get into specifics, but he did say their price includes an upgraded cover, and maintenance free cabinet. He said any other option would be extra.
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Also I think your Uncle was wrong for not selling him a belt. That was just a stupid move on his part. Is that why he's out of business, for pulling stunts like that? Word get's around in those northern most small towns.
No, he retired after a long, successful run. You are right, word gets around in a small town, and... he regularly worked 12 hour days, and would work all night to get his customer back on the trails, if need be. That was the main word got around, along with the fair deals he gave loyal customers. He felt that if it was common knowledge that you could save a few bucks by buying out of town, and still have the convenience of local parts and service... he wouldn't have a business. I'm sure he encouraged any local gossip that made it clear that where you purchased your sled was important. He enjoyed his relationship with his customers, there was always somebody hanging around the shop. He really didn't need a customer like you appear to be from your comments.
Now that I think about it, my uncle made a point of getting to know everyone before getting around to trying to make a deal, so he would have picked up on the lack of respect you have for people who sell things for a living. If all you were interested in was price, he would have probably quoted you a high one, knowing you were shopping a 100 mile radius, and not wanting to give you a good quote to use to negotiate somewhere else. Perhaps that is why you think you were able to "save thousands". I have to think that many dealers can spot a "shopper" easily, and are not going to give their best price to someone who isn't likely to buy from them.
Perhaps your shopping techniques and the winning personality you have displayed here did indeed get you the deal of the century. It is really hard to compare an price on a current model that has been upgraded from the previous year, and can be custom ordered... to a year old carryover that evidently nobody else wanted, and the dealer wanted to get rid of enough that he sold it to someone who is far enough away that follow-up chemical/accessory sales are unlikely, and providing warranty service to will require a 4 hour round trip. Hmmmm!
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We had one character here a few years ago, posted under the name of "Needsaspa" or "Wantsaspa" or similar, and this person was so fixated on getting the best possible deal in the universe, I'm not sure he ever got any spa.
And he and his "deal" were only a couple hundred bucks appart, if he was being honest. And the price he was at was really good, again if he was being honest.
But he felt that if the dealer could come down a thousand, he should be able to come down a few hundred more.
So to him, saving that last coupe hundred bucks was more important than getting his spa.
He probably still has that offer "on the table", only the spa model was like 3 years ago.
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Terminator nailed it.
Customers should expect top notch service from the spa dealer they spent their money with.
My company has a roughly 12,000 person customer base that keeps us very busy.
Top notch dealers are focused on servicing customers who purchased from them.
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We agree to disagree..
;D
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If they buy somewhere else, they're not my customer. They are the other dealers customer.
That sums it up. They chose not to buy it from you, you choose not to service them. I totally agree with you Term.
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We agree to disagree..
;D
Whew, I guess this means we're allowed to believe as we see fit without being told how we should feel. Thanks.
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Hi All,
This is my last reply on this post, if some of you want to keep arguing about this subject so be it.
This is what I have said in the past about how a post with replies can get so out of hand.
It looks to me that Reese would love to become a senior member so he/she just post posts with no regard to the subject matter. I originally asked for dealers and he/she rang in so many times it was not funny. Now he/she argues with Sledjunkie.
He/she loves that there Uncle took someone for a ride.
but thats.
just me
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Similar to how Mr. Texas is won't take care of customers who go elsewhere for a better deal?
If they buy somewhere else, they're not my customer. They are the other dealers customer. We take care of ALL of our customers, they should take care of theirs.
If they cannot service THEIR customer, why should we? Maybe they shouldn't sell a spa to someone if they are not going to service the spa afterwards. We have our OWN customers to take care of and it would not be fair to them.
Been doing it this way for 21 years, OUR customers are happy, so don't fret about it sledjunkie. Dealers aren't important anyway so why do you even care? :)
Terminator
Taken care of people that did not buy a spa from you is a way of gaining that customer, they will needs chemicals... and if you do a good job that same person will tell their friends where to shop for a spa.
I can understand your point but is seems a little short sited to me.
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Taken care of people that did not buy a spa from you is a way of gaining that customer, they will needs chemicals... and if you do a good job that same person will tell their friends where to shop for a spa.
I'll be happy to sell them chemicals.
And we do a good job. But, what's to keep them from telling their friend to go buy a spa from another dealer across state the same way they did?
"Hey, go buy a spa from Doololly Spas, but get East Texas Spa to service it. That's what I did."
Well, he's wrong. We won't service it. Tis much ado about nothing, though, as I only know of 2 instances where this has happened, and it was several years ago. :)
Terminator
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Gary-
I agree. I think it's a horrible way to run a business.
That's why I don't care about hot tub dealers.
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Gary-
I agree. I think it's a horrible way to run a business.
That's why I don't care about hot tub dealers.
The feeling's mutual. :D
Terminator (Hot Tub Salesman)
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Hi All,
This is my last reply on this post, if some of you want to keep arguing about this subject so be it.
This is what I have said in the past about how a post with replies can get so out of hand.
It looks to me that Reese would love to become a senior member so he/she just post posts with no regard to the subject matter. I originally asked for dealers and he/she rang in so many times it was not funny. Now he/she argues with Sledjunkie.
He/she loves that there Uncle took someone for a ride.
but thats.
just me
I enjoyed Reese's posts and found them relevant to the thread. Some other folk's post? Eh, not so much.
I learned the hard way on this when I shopped for a car. Bought someplace else, and when the car had problems took it the dealer closest to me. Yea, they fixed it, but it wasn't a pleasant situation.
As I get a bit older, I am gaining more apprecaition for quality dealers and don't mind paying a little extra for the better dealer. Thats not to say I'm not frugal, or not a wise shopper. far far from it. I am tenacious as much as I am loyal. :) my car, my toys. entertainment.... It's nice going in, being called by name and knowing that if there is an issue, it will be taken care of.
In todays market, quality service unfortnaltey is becomming a luxary item. I hate that, I disagree with it, but I recognize it as being a fact of life. I don't shop Best Buys or Walmart, because the $ savings isn't worth my time or peice of mind. Call me a snob, what ever, but it sure is nice to afford a higher level of service than the Walmart crowd. 8-)
But, that's
Just me. ;)
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Some people only want a direct answer to their original question, and for them, any deviation, even if a relevant discussion by the regular members of the community, is unacceptable.
That said, I have an example to help go further off on a tangent ;D
The last car I bought I had the option of 2 dealers. One very close to my home, and the other far enough that it would be inconvenient to take it to them for service. The one closer to my home was a couple hundred $ more.
I tried to pit the further dealer against them to get them to match the price, but no luck. They were upfront and assured me that if I bought elsewhere I would still receive the same level of customer service from them. Even though, I still chose to buy from them....... The reason? They offer one thing only to customer that bought the car from them. Any time the car is in for service, they provide a free loaner.
At the time, I figured I might break even (and come out WAY ahead on convenience). At this point, my savings in rental car costs just may pay for my next car ;D ;D ;D ;D
As far as treating buyers and non-buyers the same........ They were correct, both get treated about as horribly as you can imagine ::)
Hi All,
This is my last reply on this post, if some of you want to keep arguing about this subject so be it.
This is what I have said in the past about how a post with replies can get so out of hand.
It looks to me that Reese would love to become a senior member so he/she just post posts with no regard to the subject matter. I originally asked for dealers and he/she rang in so many times it was not funny. Now he/she argues with Sledjunkie.
He/she loves that there Uncle took someone for a ride.
but thats.
just me
I enjoyed Reese's posts and found them relevant to the thread. Some other folk's post? Eh, not so much.
I learned the hard way on this when I shopped for a car. Bought someplace else, and when the car had problems took it the dealer closest to me. Yea, they fixed it, but it wasn't a pleasant situation.
As I get a bit older, I am gaining more apprecaition for quality dealers and don't mind paying a little extra for the better dealer. Thats not to say I'm not frugal, or a wise shopper. far far from it. I am tenacious as much as I am loyal. :) my car, my toys. entertainment.... It's nice going in, being called by name and knowing that if there is an issue, it will be taken care of.
In todays market, quality service unfortnaltey is becomming a luxary item. I hate that, I disagree with it, but I recognize it as being a fact of life. I don't shop Best Buys or Walmart, because the $ savings isn't worth my time or peice of mind. Call me a snob, what ever, but it sure is nice to afford a higher level of service than the Walmart crowd. 8-)
But, that's
Just me. ;)
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IT's the nature of internet forums to meander a bit. Sometimes its good. Sometimes not so good. Being able to handle the s/n ratio on the internet is a good skill to develop. :)
I thought the original question was answered rather fully. And to be honest, I too was upset with trip charges and such. I still am. But they exist and not just in the hot tub world. Applancne repair and automotive come to mind. (Deductables on the warrenty, or trip service charges). When it's $1000 repair, a $50 trip charge, or deductable isn't so bad, on a $30 widget? then it sucks. Being at the discretion of the dealer can be frustrating. I'd like to see somthing like 100% free service for say, the first year on some items. I understand though, that would mean either raising the price to cover the liablity or using more exspensive components, also raising the price. In todays world of Best Buys, Mcdonalds, warehouse shopping it's a tough equation to balance.
I used to tell my clients
you can have it:
- Quicker,
- Cheaper
- Better
Pick any two. :)
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Some people only want a direct answer to their original question, and for them, any deviation, even if a relevant discussion by the regular members of the community, is unacceptable.
In this case, I think he only wanted posts from those who agreed with his whine. But that's just me. ;)
I had a little time to kill over the past couple of weeks, so I signed back on with an express intent of joining the fray. If I ended up on the opposite side from the Just Mes, Altazis and Sledjunkies of this group (and even Bonibelle and Mendo from time to time ;)), and they didn't appreciate my posts, I'm fine with that -- although I wish everyone would realize we are just sharing opinions, and not take things personally. IMO, a lively discussion is what makes a board like this worth visiting. It's been fun, but I have to head back out of town this afternoon, so much to Just Me's relief, I won't be around much for awhile. I just wanted to make sure he didn't get some warped satisfaction, thinking his caustic comments drove me away.
To WSD, Vinny, Spatech, In Canada, Doc, Cola and the others whose info and humor grace this board, it has been a pleasure, whether we agreed or disagreed. Hope to make it back soon! :)
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Hi All,
In todays market, quality service unfortnaltey is becomming a luxary item. I hate that, I disagree with it, but I recognize it as being a fact of life. I don't shop Best Buys or Walmart, because the $ savings isn't worth my time or peice of mind. Call me a snob, what ever, but it sure is nice to afford a higher level of service than the Walmart crowd. 8-)
But, that's
Just me. ;)
Best Buy is simply full MSRP unless its on sale. not really a place to save at but they can be very convenient.
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Hey Doc,
Even though I might not agree with you, I'm still buying from you because your prices are the best.
;D
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Hi All,
In todays market, quality service unfortnaltey is becomming a luxary item. I hate that, I disagree with it, but I recognize it as being a fact of life. I don't shop Best Buys or Walmart, because the $ savings isn't worth my time or peice of mind. Call me a snob, what ever, but it sure is nice to afford a higher level of service than the Walmart crowd. 8-)
But, that's
Just me. ;)
Best Buy is simply full MSRP unless its on sale. not really a place to save at but they can be very convenient.
Best Buys is the seventh circle of hell.
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When I was shopping for my new computer, I didn’t shop focusing on the best price, nor did I buy it at a large retail chain, or even on the internet.
Instead I spent hundreds more and bought my new computer from a small local computer store (I support my local businesses) because they are a great dealer, with great reputation, and provide me the customer service and support I need.
NOT!
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OK so now you all got me interested . . . somewhere back there in the rubble, someone remarked about a customer being SOL if their original dealer went out of business or stopped carrying a particular maker.
Please tell me that's not so . . . question for all you dealers, wouldn't the company honor the warranty if I sought warranty repairs from you in that case?
For the record, I've got nothing against "sales" people - I negotiate contracts as a big part of my job, and have a lot of respect for folks who are knowledgeable about the service they offer or the product they sell.
Plus, one thing I've come across is that in some cultures, "bargaining" is actually a SOCIAL activity - it's a way of establishing a relationship with somebody, getting to know who they are. Some of the folks I deal with appear to do it for FUN - they ask for the stars, if they can't get that they'll push for the sun, the moon and an asteroid or two, and never stop asking if Alpha Centauri can't be thrown in for free. Meanwhile, I'm learning about their family, what they do for a living, their home village in Nigeria, etc etc etc.
I used to think they were just trying to wear me down and would get PO'd. As soon as I realized it's social, but NOT personal, I've been able to relax and enjoy my job more.
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I visited a dealer (and I'm sure a lot of dealers do this - see Stuart's post) that said they dropped a manufacturer but will continue to service the tubs they sold. Now since we're talking warranty repair, I don't know 5, 10 or 15 years down the line.
I did ask the question to one manufacturer and the reply was they would get another spa dealer to repair their spa if the selling dealer went out of business. After reading how little they pay, I can't see a Sundance dealer fixing a Hot Springs because the closest dealer went out of business.
My concern when I bought my tub was that my dealer was the only Artesian dealer in central and southern Jersy and what happened if they went out of business. But I bought the tub and more dealers have popped up.
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I did ask the question to one manufacturer and the reply was they would get another spa dealer to repair their spa if the selling dealer went out of business. After reading how little they pay, I can't see a Sundance dealer fixing a Hot Springs because the closest dealer went out of business.
Yeah I wasn't necessarily thinking of an HS dealer servicing my Jacuzzi - but even if we're talking a different dealer of the same brand, well it would seem to me that I'd just transfer my "loyalty" as a customer, along with any of my service calls, so it's in the new dealer's interest to help me out.
I can see the dealer's dilemma though, and what it amounts to is the company can say what it wants about a warranty, but it's the dealer who has to back up those words (as we all learn in Hot Tub 101 class).
Finally - I did just read over on BS a whole bunch of folks (or at least two) salivating to get the "warranty work" on a certain brand of tub, just for the sake of . . . ummmm . . . scientific curiosity. ;)
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You bring up an interesting point - being loyal to someone.
I bougt my tub but don't buy chems from my dealer. I will buy filters when the time comes and I did want to buy different jets for a certain seat but they said they won't fit, which I know is wrong. I don't buy my chems because they are kind of expensive IMO. If they were a little expensive - no problem, we all have to make a buck but they seem very expensive. I don't think it's the dealer per say but maybe she doesn't move a lot of stock and needs to sell it at a higher cost. I would like to support her business but I also need to save money somewhere and chems are the place I chose to save.
What exactly is loyalty? I bought my tub from her because it was the best value for my money. I will send anyone to her because they are a great dealer but it would cost me a fortune to buy chems there. I believe I'm loyal. If you give your business to a particular business hopefully they will remember when the time come when you need them. I believe a good business will do that. My dealer said they will take care of their customer first before servicing a non customer which is probably the right thing to do!
Off topic but maybe the same - I treat people who work on my house pretty good - I always give out the names of people who have done good by me. I used a HVAC contractor that put in a new heat and AC unit in 3 years ago - I always tell people to give out my name. A friend needed a new AC unit and said my name - the contractor remembered me. I give him business and hopefully when the day comes that I really need him. he'll be there for me!
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You bring up an interesting point - being loyal to someone.
I just think it's good business to develop relationships - that's what I try to do in my own work, I'd be sunk without them.
So when I was shopping, I actually went to two different Jacuzzi dealers, and ended up purchasing from the one who's a little further away (40 min drive as opposed to 20 min), because he gave me a much better price. Funny thing is I ended up dealing with two different sales people, and I made sure they each knew I had been talking to the other.
Last week I went back to check in, buy the calcium increaser I needed, and give them some "jazz" about not getting the rubber duck they promised to throw in (which of course I promptly received ;) ). I might go back for a cover lifter (which I didn't think I would need but now regret not getting).
I still have extra chems from my attempts to revive my old tub, so I don't expect to need any more for quite a while. I may or may not buy those from them because of the distance and/or price. However, I will go there for filters and other things I may need, and of course I will rely on them if repairs are ever needed.
All in all, given how helpful they were, and how GREAT the delivery manager was, I'm happy to send business their way and keep going there myself. I'd prefer the experience to be positive for them as well! I'd also like to know that if they ever go away, however, I'd be treated as well by ANYONE who sells their brand.
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Gary-
I agree. I think it's a horrible way to run a business.
That's why I don't care about hot tub dealers.
Maybe I don't understand. You didn't buy anything from the dealership. You are not their customer. Why don't you have the dealer you bought the spa from service your spa?
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Imp,
As someone who had a tub without a cover lifter and now has a tub with one. GET THE LIFTER. It's worth it.
It's makes it so much easer to use, keep the cover clean, and saves it from being beat up form the ground.
you spent all that money on your beutiful hot tub. Get the lifter!!!!
now, if I can only get Zep to understand! ;)
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Well...
The way I look at it is this....
If for example they are an authorized Hotsprings dealer, who sells, supports, and services Hotsprings they should service your hot tub if you own a Hotsprings, regardless of where you bought it. I can completly understand that they would/should charge you some sort of trip/travel charge(and possibly an hourly labor charge) because you didn't buy it from them, but to actually decline service/support?
Honda motorcycle dealers don't decline service on motorcycles if you didn't buy from them.
Skidoo snowmobile dealers don't decline service on snowmobiles if you didn't buy from them.
John Deere dealers don't decline service on lawnmowers if you didn't buy from them.
Stihl dealers don't decline service on chainsaws if you didn't buy from them.
etc
etc
etc
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I've heard stories of John Deer onwers who purchased thier lawn tractors from Home Depot being snubbed by the dealers.
Are some dealers obligated by thier franchise to support all product claims, or is it left up to the individual dealer to decide? I can see cases on both sides of this issue where it would make sense to provide service as well as refuse.
If I had an out of warrenty product, I'd be a little upset if the local authorzied dealer denied me service. However if the product was still under wattenty, and I bought it from Jimbo down the road for the lower price, but took it to Charlie 15 mintues away for service (because he's better). I could understand him telling me Hey....go back to Jimbo.
I have this issue now with my pellet stove. I bought a quality brand, but the dealer is a complete moron. I've tried to go to dealers of this product outside of the area, and am refused service. I'm a bit frustrated, as i bought form the dealer closest to me (not the cheapest. I wasn't tyring to snooker a lower deal or have dealerships compete with each other) I bought paid fair market value and am getting screwed mutlple times on service (that I'm paying for!) . But I am being forced to have service from a substandard dealer. One more issue and I'm going to the president of the company.
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Are some dealers obligated by thier franchise to support all product claims, or is it left up to the individual dealer to decide? I can see cases on both sides of this issue where it would make sense to provide service as well as refuse.
Every manufacturer can have their own policy, but what I frequently hear is that for the dealer to carry a brand of spa that have to agree to do the warranty work on ones they sell, for a price that the manufacturer sets.
I've also heard of manufacturers contacting a different dealer to perform warranty repairs for a nearby dealer that went out of business. However, in these cases the dealer negotiated a much better fee for doing the work.
Near to me is a dealer that does NO warranty (or service work) of any kind. The manufacturer was so desperate to get into this market, and this guy was the only one willing to sell their brand, he was able to cut this deal with them. Warranty problems are contracted out individually to local repair companies. By the way, this manufacturer gets a "trip charge" for warranty work. But ahhhhhhhhhhh, the guy's moving about 500 spas a year.
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Imp,
As someone who had a tub without a cover lifter and now has a tub with one. GET THE LIFTER. It's worth it.
It's makes it so much easer to use, keep the cover clean, and saves it from being beat up form the ground.
you spent all that money on your beutiful hot tub. Get the lifter!!!!
now, if I can only get Zep to understand! ;)
Thanks drewstar for the advice :)
I'm weighing the choice now . . . I think if we have a couple more nights when friends are over and the whole cover needs to be taken off completely, I'll get the Spice on board with the extra expense ('specially if he's the one who has to deal with the cover, and it's a little chillier out :o).
The issue is the old gazebo we saved from the old tub - not a lot of clearance in the spot we'd need it, and we don't want to block our moonlight view of the yard.
Tell me, how hard is it to shift an empty tub? I was thinking of making some more room the first time we drain it. Any advice out there?
PS drewstar - we used to be neighbors - I'm originally from Upton, and I still have family there!
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Upton? Sure! I'm over in Boylston. Where are you at now?
One cut in that cover and water will get in and you're out several hundred bucks. I honestly don't think not haveing a lifter is an option.
How far are moving the tub? When they placed mine, the movers knew just the trick to nudge it around and it was easy, if you know the way to do it. (I not sure, but I think it's more of getting your weight down low on the tub's side, as opposed to pushing from the lip. ) I have no doubt there are dozen of folks herre who can tell you the right way to do it.
Get the cover lifter. It's not an option!!!!!!
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I'm under the Redwoods in Oakland now - funny thing is one of my childhood friends lives not 10 miles from here.
OK I guess the lifter is in - must find a way to catch The Man in a moment of weakness . . . <skulks off to plot> ;)
We'd just need to shift a few inches, like maybe 2-4 - I think if we knew a good technique it would take only a couple of people, plus one to keep an eye on the other side.
It's only a 350 gallon tub, so it's pretty light, but my other concern is ease of access all around, just in case it needs service on the non-pump sides. The deck is about 9 inches higher on the entry side, plus there's not a lot of slack on the electrical conduit.
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Some people only want a direct answer to their original question, and for them, any deviation, even if a relevant discussion by the regular members of the community, is unacceptable.
In this case, I think he only wanted posts from those who agreed with his whine. But that's just me. ;)
I had a little time to kill over the past couple of weeks, so I signed back on with an express intent of joining the fray. If I ended up on the opposite side from the Just Mes, Altazis and Sledjunkies of this group (and even Bonibelle and Mendo from time to time ;)), and they didn't appreciate my posts, I'm fine with that -- although I wish everyone would realize we are just sharing opinions, and not take things personally. IMO, a lively discussion is what makes a board like this worth visiting. It's been fun, but I have to head back out of town this afternoon, so much to Just Me's relief, I won't be around much for awhile. I just wanted to make sure he didn't get some warped satisfaction, thinking his caustic comments drove me away.
To WSD, Vinny, Spatech, In Canada, Doc, Cola and the others whose info and humor grace this board, it has been a pleasure, whether we agreed or disagreed. Hope to make it back soon! :)
Hello Reese,
I don't think we were on opposite sides of an issue. You caught me in the middle of a "learning experience" and took me to task over it, instead of helping me with your greater experience in spa shopping. I freely admit that I am a newbie to spas, and in the process of trying to make an educated decision. Anyone in this position would rather be guided than censured. Teach me, don't kick me. Be kind to newbies! :)
Regards,
Altazi
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Hi All,
I glad to see that I'm not the only one here that don't like to be belittled for asking some question.