Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Vinny on September 13, 2006, 07:57:35 pm

Title: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: Vinny on September 13, 2006, 07:57:35 pm

I'm posting this for the newbies on this board.

I went into my tub Mon night and when I was done added a "dose" of dichlor - 1 teaspoon. This is a typical amount for a single soaker that gives me about 1.5 PPM. I use 24/7 ozone but no Nature 2. This usually this will do for 1 1/2 days when I used ozone for 8 hours a day.

This morning I opened the tub to peek inside and it was cloudy. I hit it with 4.5 PPM dichlor, MPS and some clarifier. Tonight I have 2 PPM chlorine and the tub is still cloudy. Obviously something happened to my crystal clear tub on Mon night.

This is something that can happen to water even if it's crystal clear. Bad water can happen quickly.

My problems could have been:

1) low chlorine dose - even though it worked before, it doesn't guarantee it will work all the time.
2) High PH - My tub's PH was 7.8 on Sat so there was more oxidizing chlorine than killing chlorine. This was compounded that I used a low dose.
3) Bacteria wasn't sufficiently killed before soaking - I doubt this is it since it was crystal clear and I have been soaking on the weekend with more chlorine added.
4) Something in the water the reacted with chlorine - The chlorine was busy working on other gunk rather than bacteria - a good possibility.
5) Combination of the above or something else  - for lack of anything else I can think of.

KNOW YOUR WATER!!!  I suspect that it was a high PH and low chlorine dose that did my tub in! With a PH of 7.2 to 7.4 there is a lot more killing chlorine ions than oxidizing ions. The low dose couldn't produce enough of the killing ions - a little higher dose (3 PPM) may have produced better results.

Going minimal chlorine can work but you really need to know how everything affects the water... prevention is easy, cleaning up is much harder!

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: Amanda_Panda on September 13, 2006, 08:10:02 pm

I'm glad you posted this. Your absolutely right... bad water can happen very quickly! I thought of a couple of other things that may have been the cause as well.

*poor filtration (may need to clean the filters)
*some jets may have been "closed off" not allowing water to flow through, and when they were "opened" the "stagnant" water entered the tub.
*or a possible build up or high dose of organic materials

There's probly more that I didn't think of as well.

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: Vinny on September 13, 2006, 08:19:48 pm

Quote

I'm glad you posted this. Your absolutely right... bad water can happen very quickly! I thought of a couple of other things that may have been the cause as well.

*poor filtration (may need to clean the filters)
*some jets may have been "closed off" not allowing water to flow through, and when they were "opened" the "stagnant" water entered the tub.
*or a possible build up or high dose of organic materials

There's probly more that I didn't think of as well.

I'm glad you added to this.

My dealer warned me about closed jets! It is a family run business and we did talk for a while about stuff. He explained how people turn off sections of the tub (1 seat) and after months of non circulation turn it on to get a big cloud of crud!

I also forgot to mention that my water is about 2 months old and may have been affected by TDS and as you said organic load. I have found that just because people say the get 4 months out of water doesn't mean everybody will get 4 months.

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: LINDALU on September 13, 2006, 08:27:32 pm

We are somewhat of a Newbie, about 3 mo's into tubbing.
Had a similar situation where our water became cloudy after friends used it having "slathered" with some type of sunblock before getting in.
For what it's worth we did the following:
First, cleaned our filters, did an MPS shock, then a Dichlor shock to bring it up to about 10ppm, also added a little Sea Klear. (All at different intervals).
Didn't totally clear up the water, but helped quite a bit.
Let the circ. pump and ozonator, do their thing for about 5 days, then repeated the previously listed shock routine.
Water came back to clear again.
Not positive, but think that doing an occasional Dichlor shock at 10+ppm does much to clear up the cloudy water in addition to cleaning the filters and keeping  the circ. pump going 24/7. The PH and Alk. were kept in range also.
Don't know if this is any help but it worked for our water cloudiness.

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: Vinny on September 13, 2006, 08:58:06 pm

Quote

We are somewhat of a Newbie, about 3 mo's into tubbing.
Had a similar situation where our water became cloudy after friends used it having "slathered" with some type of sunblock before getting in.
For what it's worth we did the following:
First, cleaned our filters, did an MPS shock, then a Dichlor shock to bring it up to about 10ppm, also added a little Sea Klear. (All at different intervals).
Didn't totally clear up the water, but helped quite a bit.
Let the circ. pump and ozonator, do their thing for about 5 days, then repeated the previously listed shock routine.
Water came back to clear again.
Not positive, but think that doing an occasional Dichlor shock at 10+ppm does much to clear up the cloudy water in addition to cleaning the filters and keeping  the circ. pump going 24/7. The PH and Alk. were kept in range also.
Don't know if this is any help but it worked for our water cloudiness.

Thanks for the info!

I swear by a shock of dichlor and MPS - you got the best of both worlds! I typically don't shock to 10 PPM but do get it to 6 PPM about once a week. This is Vermonter's reason to shock with dichlor vs MPS - get a super chlorination of the tub.

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: pg_rider on September 13, 2006, 09:55:55 pm

So did you have to drain/refill Vinny?

And what is this Vermonter's method I keep hearing about?

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: Bonibelle on September 13, 2006, 10:55:54 pm

Tell the truth, Vinny....it was too much olive oil!

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: In Canada eh on September 13, 2006, 11:00:25 pm

Quote

Tell the truth, Vinny....it was too much olive oil!

Good one  ;D ;D Boni

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: ORANGEPEEL on September 13, 2006, 11:22:50 pm

To find the Vermonter's style, go to the following:
1. www.rhtubs.com
2. To Q&A Message Board
3. To Chat room box (upper left), click on BBS FAQ
4. Click on; Dichlor dosing Vermonter's style
Don't really know who Vermonter is, but I've followed it, and it does work for me.

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: MarKee on September 14, 2006, 12:01:03 am

Remember to never add shock and clarifier at the same time.  You will get some beautiful brown bubbles

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: kervis on September 14, 2006, 06:31:09 am

Quote

Remember to never add shock and clarifier at the same time.  You will get some beautiful brown bubbles

Now, I thought that was "normal" and that you just scooped them out because that was all of the stuff that was making the water cloudy!  :-/

Can someone offer some type of list  of things that go together or are not supposed to go together in the tub chemical-wise?

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: windsurfdog on September 14, 2006, 08:40:24 am

Quote

I went into my tub Mon night and when I was done added a "dose" of dichlor - 1 teaspoon. This is a typical amount for a single soaker that gives me about 1.5 PPM.

Vinny,
This isn't for you as much as the newbies for whom you originally posted.

"Spare the dichlor, spoil the tub"

I always use a minimum of 2 tsp. which brings ppm between 3-4... 8-)

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: lskarp on September 14, 2006, 12:06:40 pm

I think that the brown bubbles with the shock is the congealed materiel that was clouding you up in the first place.  I am pretty sure that this is the case as the brown bubbles that come out of my tub smell a lot like the lotion that my wife puts on after a shower?!?!?  go figure...

I think it is an excellent point regarding the jets being shut off.  when I first read, I was like, "does not apply to me, I keep all of min on", but of course we all have our favorite seats, and the diverters are set to them, not to the vacant ones!!  I will be sure to rotate on the diverters after adding Chlorine after soaking to push through the stuff and also get chlorine water into the pipes.

I am up to 3 months now and the water still looks and feels great.  I think I will hold off another month to drain and start over as it is not broken..  Thoughts???

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: windsurfdog on September 14, 2006, 12:22:22 pm

Quote

I think it is an excellent point regarding the jets being shut off.  when I first read, I was like, "does not apply to me, I keep all of min on", but of course we all have our favorite seats, and the diverters are set to them, not to the vacant ones!!  I will be sure to rotate on the diverters after adding Chlorine after soaking to push through the stuff and also get chlorine water into the pipes.

Regarding turning jets off via the jets and not the diverter, I have 4 jets that are either at or just above water level.  I keep these jets rotated off except when I desire their therapy because of the noise level.  When I rotate them completely off, I notice there is still a small stream of water that passes through.  This has always been enough to keep water fresh in those pipes no matter how often/seldom used.  

As for the two diverters, I make a point of rotating both to the center position upon exiting the tub.

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: tony on September 14, 2006, 01:34:13 pm

Quote

 

As for the two diverters, I make a point of rotating both to the center position upon exiting the tub.

Good point.  Keep your diverter valves in the center and your venturi valves off when exiting the tub.

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: spa-ing on September 14, 2006, 02:35:03 pm

I add all the chemicals weekly at the same time. The water is never brown or bubbly.

I use bromine shock, a stain and scale product and a water clarifier. Never had cloudy, brown smelly or otherwise.

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: hottbpete on September 14, 2006, 03:52:32 pm

If you listen to the sales people at all the stores I have visited.....it takes a little scoop of something onve a week, and a refill every three months......I feel like I am getting into more then I thought :'( :'(

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: Vinny on September 14, 2006, 08:01:54 pm

pg_rider,

A drain and refill may be in order. I'll see how it goes, tonight it was still cloudy and I put a little more clarifier into the tub. I may end up dumping and refilling.

Boni,

It very well could be ... us Italians love dunking bread into olive oil [smiley=thumbsup.gif]. I grew up dunking bread in olive oil and gravy (for all those non-Italians it'll be an expalnation if needed - it ain't brown gravy!)

windsurfdog,

It also applies to us not so newbies, had I used 2 teaspoons this might not have happened. No guarentee but it might have been avoided.

I wrote this because I read too many people saying stuff about not using dichlor regularly or want to use very little ... my crystal clear tub went bad very quickly with minimal use while using dichlor and ozone. I won't comment what would have happened if I didn't use dichlor! ::) 8-)

 lskarp,

My dealer was right on the money with that. I keep my diverter valves with water going through them all the time. My tub has enough power IMO to handle all the jets working to some degree. I also have neck jets like windsurfdog and even "closed" water comes out of them as well. I think people forget that water will go bad without circulation.

hottbpete,

Just listen to what salespeople have to say and come to your own conclusion. I use baking soda, calcium increaser, dichlor and MPS only. Once in a while I use PH down when I goof on the baking soda. BUT and it a big BUT my water comes out of the tap with low calcium, low alkalinity and a PH of 6.8 ... great water for adjusting up.

I do not use my dealer's recommended treatment. That consisted of N2 and only using enhanced shock once a week with "regular" use. Although she insisted that all her customers have great success, I would almost guarantee that I whould have this problem all the time. The nice thing about a forum such as this is you can sort out the good from the bad.

Yes, you need to monitor the tub - I add dichlor every other day. I check PH once or twice a week dependng what 's happening with the tub. If need be it gets a scoop or two of something. Every so often you need to drain and refill, you might get 3 or 4 months or you may get 1 or 2 - it all depends.

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: Bonibelle on September 14, 2006, 10:22:50 pm

I think it's a simple case of Aglio Et Olio .....You really shouldn't be eating in the tub, Vinny, it raises your TDS! ;D ;D

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: Vinny on September 15, 2006, 12:39:35 pm

Quote

I think it's a simple case of Aglio Et Olio .....You really shouldn't be eating in the tub, Vinny, it raises your TDS! ;D ;D

I prefer a' leache! But with brocolli or pignoli nuts .... mmmmmmm!

Title: Re: Newbies: A good example of water turning bad.
Post by: imp etc on September 15, 2006, 12:55:30 pm

Quote

Quote

I think it's a simple case of Aglio Et Olio .....You really shouldn't be eating in the tub, Vinny, it raises your TDS! ;D ;D

I prefer a' leache! But with brocolli or pignoli nuts .... mmmmmmm!

You two are making me nostalgic for my dad's special gnocchi recipe . . .