Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Joel T on August 25, 2006, 12:13:28 pm
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Marquis, Hot Springs and Sundance, I think, have "transducers" or Trans... somethin-or-other planted on their shells to give some nice feeling sounds. Marquis sound source is the homeowners existing sound setup, no tuner's included. But at $1K and way up that's too much. Is their an aftermarket do-it-yourself equivalent out their that might save a bunch of bucks?
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what part of the country are you in ?
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The attraction of the sound systems is you as the customer do not have to do anything. It's done and working when spa is delivered.
Aftermarket to install in the spa?, haven't heard of any.
You can get a great system with outdoor speakers from Tweeter, BestBuy, Etc. Have to research which one is good, go shop for it, bring it home, get out the tools, drill holes in house to run wires(if not wireless), mount speakers, etc, etc, etc. Is the shopping experience and installation with your time worth $1,500+? You'll need to decide.
I think the Spaudio's are pricey. Big time convenience though to be able to manipulate it from the spa, and YOU don't have to lift a finger to install.
For us to install a Spaudio, it takes about an hour with 2 people with the spa on a forklift, chest height, prior to delivery. A bit longer when spa's already in place.
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Couldn't have summed it up any better myself. If you're installing a SpAudio II for the first time it typically takes about 5 or 6 hours total. One person can do it in 5 or 6, or two people can do it in 2-3.
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And how long at the factory, during production, does the sound system actually add to production time?
I could have upgraded the stock (cheap a$$) seats in my car, from the factory for $1500. Now it would cost me $5800, each
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Joel, I have a Marquis Epic with the Soundsations. There is nothing like it. We also have a speaker system on our decks for when we are in the yard, or in the pool but listening to that system while in the tub, (unless the jets are off) is just about pointless. I love the transducer system because you can control everything from the tub and the sound is actually coming from the tub. You get no distortion. It also seems to keep the sound within the tub so you don't have to blast it so the neighbors all know you are soaking at 12 am! I don't remember what we paid for it, but I am sure my husband would say it was worth every penny. ;)
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In my humble opinion, I would no more buy a spa with a built-in sound system/video system than I would by a sound system/video system with a built-in spa. Ask any spa tech at this site how he feels about troubleshooting built-in sound/video systems...I'm guessing few, if any, are happy about it. As Joel T. alluded, $1k can buy a LOT of top quality sound equipment that would be much higher quality and easier to maintain...but don't ask the manufacturers/dealers their opinions... 8-)
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Dr. Spa,
Factory does not install. Dealer does. Can not be ordered factory installed.
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One other way to look at it:
My Sundance Stereo unit is marine grade, and I've seen the exact same unit for sale for about $300 at a relatively inexpense source- that's just for the reciever/CD unit. Pop on another couple hundred bucks for the marine grade pop up speakers, and a couple hundred more for the Sub Woofer and amplifier, and you're well over $500 if you bought the stuff outside of Sundance.
Of course, the dealer and factory are making extra profit on the stuff, just like car dealers and anyone else who sells this stuff, and allowing for the extra work to integrate it nicely into the spa- I can see how it'd be worth the price.
The sound quality is tremendous, it convenient, and well executed. In 3+ years, I've had no trouble at all with it, and it doesn't look to me like it'd be that big of a deal to replace any of the components should the need arise.
To me it was worth the money. Running speakers outside didn't interest me.
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In my Marquis tub, only the speakers are in the tub. We use the sound system in our sunroom. Double check on that price, as I look at my receipt, we paid less than $500.00 with the Dolphin remote.
This is obviously a personal choice, either you like to listen to music , while you soak or you don't. My point is, if you do want to listen to music...this is the way to have the best sound quality when the jets are on. I think that for many people the music aspect is part of the whole spa experience. Relaxing with a nice drink, listening to your favorite sounds under a star filled night sky, or while the snow is falling.... Now that is what it's all about!!! :)
If I remember Windsurfdog, you are on the East Coast (literally on the coast), so you have the advantage of listening to the sound of the ocean...most of us aren't that lucky, we are stuck with CD's! ;)
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No $h!t? Why not? Seems to me it would be easier to install during production. Well............. I guess I therefore rescind my statement.
Dr. Spa,
Factory does not install. Dealer does. Can not be ordered factory installed.
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It's made to put be together...set down gently....and not bounced accross the county in a tractor-trailer or in our case-- in a container shipped by rail.
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Makes sense to me. You know, I talked to a transducer manufacturer some years ago (they called me). They WERE going to send me some transducers to attach to one of our wooden hot tubs to test out. I seem to recall conversation about how tightly they had to be attached and in contact with the outside of the "vessel".
It's made to put be together...set down gently....and not bounced accross the county in a tractor-trailer or in our case-- in a container shipped by rail.
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Here's my $0.02 for those without a built in sound system ... buy a MP3 player and protect it in a plastic ziplock type sand bag and a set of water resistant headphones.
The best sound there is - perfect stereo and doesn't bother the neighbors and for the price $60 for the MP3 player and $30 for the headphones ... and don't forget the $0.50 for the ziplock!
They are perfect when I want to listen to music and soak, hey maybe I'll do that tonight!
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I guess Marquis has that transducer install down to an art then because in spite of all the bouncing...I still have fabulous sound ;).
Personally, myself, I would rather have a quiet soak and listen to the deer munching my garden.... :o
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"There's waterprof cases for all the iPods waterproofcases.net
Someone actually makes a waterproof MP3 player, for swimmers..
http://www.swimoutlet.com/Waterproof_Radios_s/363.htm
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"There's waterprof cases for all the iPods waterproofcases.net
Someone actually makes a waterproof MP3 player, for swimmers..
http://www.swimoutlet.com/Waterproof_Radios_s/363.htm
That's a great idea although I have a Sandisk MP3/WMA player with a FM radio. Apple has the marketing and others have improved on it ... it always happens like that! 8-)
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I would love to have a stereo system but my neighbors probably wouldn't appreciate it. I've used my Ipod a few times and it works out well if I don't drop it.
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I have the sound system in my spa, and we absolutely love it. It was installed at the factory. Try to talk the dealer down a little on the price of the sound. I think it's definately worth it.
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I am on the fence with this one as well. We ended up going with a Spaaudio system in our Maxxus mainly because it came with the tub. However, $1000-1500 is pricey compared to what you could buy a high end outdoor speaker system for. The thing we really love about ours is regardless if we are swimming in our pool, soaking in our tub or entertaining on our deck we can enjoy the radio/cd without having to do anything from inside the house. If you are wanting to rock the neighborhood, then there is no question, you should save the $$ and invest in a higher end outdoor system, but if you are looking for something to provide a little ambiance in your yard, go ahead and get the Spaaudio installed when purchasing the tub.
JMHO,
Jr
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Skip the built in system. there like car factory audio systems. they sound great at first. then once you have heard a quality system you realize how much you system sucks. money is so much better spent on home theater/distributed audio system. my system has 9 different zones throughout the house. all the zones can have different source/music playing at the same time. and all zones are controlable from there own lcd keypad located, in each zone. i also have a waterproof floating remote for my hot tub. it also works well if you happen to leave the remote outside, after a few cocktails, and it rains overnight. dont waste 1000 on a built in spa audio system. Let alone the prices of these newer, so called, "amazing" systems, which are over 2000. Dont let the dealers on this forum fool you, its just like car sales, the car salesman make close to 50% of options they sell you on a car, and im sure the hot tub dealers also make a killing on these "spa options". Pass the spa audio systems by and by a quality home system. you will be so much happier.
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bwbski22,
With all due respect, I have to disagree with the part about a built in system sucking. Can you purchase a system not integrated into the tub that will deliver more power and even better quality audio for the same money? Absolutely. However, seeing how most people purchase a hot tub for relaxing and entertaining, most folks simply do not have the need or desire to have a system that will rock the entire neighborhood.
JM2C,
Jr
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I'm going after what Gary's saying - really good sound just for the Spa, and I do NOT want external speakers or necessarily a tuner either. Apparently Hot Springs started this transducer method about 3 years ago (don't know about Marquis) with Clark Synthesis TSTs (aka tactile sound transducers) put together with a 300 watt amp. I'm still learning about these tranducer gadgets. You can pay $50 to $400+ each, some being good only for the bass end of things. I'll be back.
Joel
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I have heard them all - Sundance kicks our butt in overal audio quality IMO. But I really like the sound of Spaudio II with the external speakers. It is almost as good as the Sundance system if you run the external speakers close to the tub, and take some time setting balance and EQ just right, but more costly and more involved.
But at $2000 (and I assure you I'm not keeping half of that) I have yet to sell one. We did sell a few of the first Spaudios, and I have a strong need to sell about , oh, say, four of them this year, since I have three on the shelf and one on display.....
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We got the stereo in our Majesta last year. The sound is fantastic and it does stay in the tub area. Seldom if ever soak without some music on unless I switch to traffic reports before getting out and getting ready for work. Sundance had some thing when we bought where you could take the stereo or free delivery and something. Adding the stereo amounted to $500 more in the cost analysis. Was worth way more than that IMHO. Just picked up some pan flute music and that with a nice dry Reisling works in my house. fwiw paul
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Skip the built in system. there like car factory audio systems. they sound great at first. then once you have heard a quality system you realize how much you system sucks. money is so much better spent on home theater/distributed audio system. my system has 9 different zones throughout the house. all the zones can have different source/music playing at the same time. and all zones are controlable from there own lcd keypad located, in each zone. i also have a waterproof floating remote for my hot tub. it also works well if you happen to leave the remote outside, after a few cocktails, and it rains overnight. dont waste 1000 on a built in spa audio system. Let alone the prices of these newer, so called, "amazing" systems, which are over 2000. Dont let the dealers on this forum fool you, its just like car sales, the car salesman make close to 50% of options they sell you on a car, and im sure the hot tub dealers also make a killing on these "spa options". Pass the spa audio systems by and by a quality home system. you will be so much happier.
Bull. My Optima's sound system STILL sounds excellent and it's over 3 year old.
It's made of marine grade components, and has stood up very well to the environment it's subject to. And I have 2 fairly high end home theatre systems in the house to compare it to. The sound quaility is there.
For various reasons I didn't want to run speakers outside- got what I wanted.
I don't consider the money I spent on the sound for the spa wasted at all. IMHO it was money well spent.
Good to know you have the inside on what salesmen commissions are. I'm sure the folks who sold you all that high end audio stuff got nothing for their efforts.
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If I remember Windsurfdog, you are on the East Coast (literally on the coast), so you have the advantage of listening to the sound of the ocean...most of us aren't that lucky, we are stuck with CD's! ;)
Well, Bonibelle, I do live on the northern Gulf Coast of Florida where I can see the gulf waters but cannot hear the breaking waves...and even if I lived right next to the gulf, I still couldn't hear the breaking surf because our area is a low energy beach without waves except during high wnds, of course. My preference for no sound/audio is based upon maintenance and initial costs. I also prefer the solitude of solo soaks or wonderful conversation when soaking with others. And let's not forget the wonderful sounds of shore birds. Yes, my area is quiet and I would guess that I would give an outdoor sound system more thought if I lived in a noisy environment...but it wouldn't be spa mounted system, for sure.
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I just had to throw in my two cents here, not only because this was relevant to my recent purchase of a hot tub, but also because I was in the audio industry for 10 years.
Most of the audio systems I have seen in hot tubs consists of a car stereo in marine enclosure with small popup "marine grade" speakers. Some add a transducer attached to the shell of the hut tub for a unique exposure to the music. I am guessing some of the systems have a small subwoofer built into the cabinet as well.
I have a few comments and opinions on this thread. First, "marine grade" simply means that the speakers have a cone made of a moisture resistant material rather than paper, and the glues that hold the cone, surround, spider, and voice coil together are not water soluble. The basket is usually coated with a paint or some other coating that is non-conductive on the surface. The voice coil is also not vented. This adds about $3 to the cost of making the speaker, as most speakers are made with most of these features already. All this really does is weatherproof the speakers, and allow them to get splashed with water once or twice in their lifetime without destroying them. This does not mean they can be submerged and still work. There are speakers that can be submerged, but they are very different from what is used in most hot tubs. There is no such thing as a "marine grade" source unit. I suppose an ipod with a waterproof enclosure or an am/fm tape player in a watertight enclosure would be an example, but that is not what is used. What they use is a 12 volt car stereo with a marine cover. This is a plastic cover with a rubber seal. All these components were developed for use in a boat where moisture and the occasional spray of water might reach these components. Many of the head unit and speaker combinations can be had for as cheap as $150, and as expensive as you want to get, most ranging in the $250-400 range.
For a sound system with a head unit, waterproof remote, decent speakers, an amplifier, and a transducer, I can see it costing a couple thousand dollars. However almost all the systems I have seen are just the two marine grade speakers with a head unit and remote. Throw in a 100 watt 12 volt transformer to run it all and a couple popup enclosures and you have the system. Manufacturer cost is probably around 300-500 dollars. Keep in mind that this is not a very good sounding system, but for most people it is sufficient. In my opinion, a portable "boom box" will sound as good.
A side note here is also that adding deep bass to a stereo is a good way to make a cheap system sound better. Many speakers will not play below 100hz, and most wont play below 60hz. Subwoofers will play these lower frequencies and make the music sound more "full". You could add a small 5 or 6" subwoofer in a vented enclosure inside the hut tub cabinet for probably $60-100 at the wholesale level.
For those that run wires from their house, keep in mind that most people dont have a whole house multi zone system, or a home theater receiver with multi-room capabilities and an RF remote to control it from anywhere. Running wires out to your hot tub and setting up a couple outdoor speakers is not a bad solution. If you have some kind of stereo source to hook it to you can get a couple decent sounding outdoor speakers for about $150-200, and with 50 dollars worth of speaker wire and some kind of covered structure to put the speakers under, you are in business. A setup like this would sound as good as most built in units. If you are more of an audiophile, a good set of outdoor rated speakers will run you over $200 and can get upwards of $2000.
You could rig up a car stereo with a marine cover, and a couple "marine grade" car speakers with an AC/DC converter and once again have the sound quality that most of these hot tubs come with. You could even save over $500 doing this.
What you miss in both these cases though is that its still not going to be built in. Yes, you could cut up the sides of your hot tub and mount all the electronics inside but most people dont want to do that, or have the hassle of doing it.
While I agree that a GOOD stereo system will far surpass anything you can get in a built-in, you will likely end up paying for it in some form or other.
Very good sound does not have to have 1000 watts and speakers that compel your neighbors to call the cops. Power consumption is exponential to sound output. It only takes a few watts to run a stereo up to loud listening levels, and background music usually takes less than a watt. I have seen and heard stereo systems costing over $50,000 that had 3 watts of power, and sounded phenominal.
The most important thing to remember here however, is that not only will a good stereo be able to sound good loud, it will sound very good when playing softly in the background. Even at low levels, a good system will far surpass anything that manufacturers will sell with a hot tub.
It is all a matter of personal taste. Are you willing to pay $900 for a $400 car stereo system built into your hot tub? Are you willing to pay $2000 for a little better sound system with transducers to vibrate the tub to the music? Are you willing to pay even more for a really good sound system, even if you dont play it loud enough to be heard in the next county? Its as personal of a choice as what tub you pick.
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In my humble opinion, I would no more buy a spa with a built-in sound system/video system than I would by a sound system/video system with a built-in spa. Ask any spa tech at this site how he feels about troubleshooting built-in sound/video systems...I'm guessing few, if any, are happy about it. As Joel T. alluded, $1k can buy a LOT of top quality sound equipment that would be much higher quality and easier to maintain...but don't ask the manufacturers/dealers their opinions... 8-)
I have no issue with the transducer ones but the rest I will not touch.
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All this marine grade stuff cracks me up, do ya'll know what marine grade means. I will give you a hint, it has nothing to do with moisture.
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All this marine grade stuff cracks me up, do ya'll know what marine grade means. I will give you a hint, it has nothing to do with moisture.
It means the fish like it?
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In the case of the reciever on my spa stereo, marine grade means it's sealed up a bit more than a typical car grade reciever, against water intrusion from splashing.
I can see the difference in the unit itself.
Weather it add much to the cost, it does add to the price, therefore the units are a bit more expensive.
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All this marine grade stuff cracks me up, do ya'll know what marine grade means. I will give you a hint, it has nothing to do with moisture.
Do tell.....
And if you can educate us any better than dkersten has, we're all ears. Otherwise.....
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All this marine grade stuff cracks me up, do ya'll know what marine grade means. I will give you a hint, it has nothing to do with moisture.
Do tell.....
And if you can educate us any better than dkersten has, we're all ears. Otherwise.....
Stronger solder joints, as boats have no suspension.
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All this marine grade stuff cracks me up, do ya'll know what marine grade means. I will give you a hint, it has nothing to do with moisture.
Do tell.....
And if you can educate us any better than dkersten has, we're all ears. Otherwise.....
Stronger solder joints, as boats have no suspension.
I can see where this would be very true in the case of a lot of marine equipment, just as milspec (military specification) equipment has to follow certain guidelines for environmental conditions.
However in the case of the audio systems they are putting in spas, the head units are off the shelf car audio units with a "marine" cover such as this one from pioneer:
http://www.mysimon.com/Car-Audio-Accessories/9000-11143_8-0.html?mlpid=28133635
There are only 2 solder joints on a speaker, where the tinsel leads from the voice coil attach to the terminals, and you could put a speaker on a paint shaker for a year and not shake those loose, so its not necessary to have a better joint here. Now, on the other hand, many "marine grade" speakers have gold plated terminals or connectors, since gold plating will resist the effects of moisture a lot better than aluminum or copper would. For most audio brands the "marine" speakers also mean white grills since not too many boats have black interior. Here are some examples of "marine" speakers:
http://www.turtlemarine.com/marinespeakers.html
Keep in mind here I am not discounting that the term "marine grade" refers to gear that can handle more vibration and shock, but in the case of audio, it only means what I have described, and it about the same price as regular car audio gear.
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I would also assume "marine grade" speakers would have water proof (not paper) cones?
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I would also assume "marine grade" speakers would have water proof (not paper) cones?
Yeah.. usually poly cones, rubber surrounds, waterproof spiders, and glue that is not water soluble. Like I said in my first post in this thread, they are not waterproof however, just resistant.. if you submerged them you would have a problem..
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I just installed another pair of "marine grade" speakers in my boat. They are indeed much like drewstar and dkersten describe. I'd hate to submerge those speakers, if I did I'd have way more trouble on my hands than dunked speakers. I'd also have a boat that was seriously full of water, and the stereo would be very low on my list of concerns.
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Marquis, Hot Springs and Sundance, I think, have "transducers" or Trans... somethin-or-other planted on their shells to give some nice feeling sounds. Marquis sound source is the homeowners existing sound setup, no tuner's included. But at $1K and way up that's too much. Is their an aftermarket do-it-yourself equivalent out their that might save a bunch of bucks?
We opted to get a spa without a sound system. We don't have our tub delivered yet, however our motivation behind our decision was........
1) we want to have outdoor speakers for the TV and our cd's. We have a big screen TV close to our spa for ALABAMA FOOTBALL- ROLL TIDE! ...sorry LOL
2) we want to listen to music while out on our deck, independent of the spa
3) we didn't want the maintenance of all the extras
4) I didn't like the appearance of the speakers on our particular spa anyway.
We have tried wireless speakers...however I believe wireless has a way to go before perfection. Sound is sometimes dropped.
I agree with another tubber here and that is to wire it from the house and get outside speakers.
Good Luck!
Bama