Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: ctkathy on August 17, 2006, 10:26:02 pm
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Any comments on . . .
Artesian has 2 x 4 construction to support the tub. Sundance only uses the insulating foam to support.
Artesian has a pump for each seat and can be individually controlled whereas Sundance does not.
Filtration for Sundance seems simpler, but Artesian says they also have disposable filters that do not require monthly cleaning.
I have visited both dealers. Not yet wet tested the Artesian Piper Glen but looking forward to doing so this Saturday.
Dealers: Sundance dealer runs an immaculate facility that focuses on spas. Artesian dealer seems mainly focused on fireplaces and indoor stoves with the spas on the outside deck, but they do have a large quantity. Spas have water in them but are not heated and wet-test ready and one of the spas was really cloudy. I know they do their own service and it 'sounded' good but why would they let their spas look like that?
Hot Springs was ok, but not really as comfortable as the Sundance Maxxus for my 6'4" husband. Is there another brand that I should definitely look at for a tall man, very roomy and deep, best quality and looks plus will hold up and have good service in the Northeast? And he thinks he really wants a lounger, but the swivel chair might also work. I want to be sure I check out all possibilities.
Many thanks!
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Arctic Spas 'Klondiker', has two loungers, one built for a shorter (5-6') person, one built for a longer (6'+) person. Plus all of the chairs face in one direction, perfect if you have a view.
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Artesian all the way!! ;)
I thought I'd get that in before the Sundance people show up!!
Actually both spas are great according to their owners and dealers. I own an Artesian (not the Piper) but you have to be happy with the dealer as well.
Pick the tub and the dealer that you feel comfortable with. I have visited dealers that had cold water in the tubs and others where the water was not so nice. Personally it didn't give me a good feeling. Although it sounds like the dealer is going to accomodate you with a wet test.
As far as filteration - all major manufacturers clean water great, Artesian has a few filters but it really isn't a big thing. The only filter that gets pretty dirty is the circ pump filter. With disposable filters I guess you can rotate them through the different openings until they get to the point that they need to get thrown out.
Eitherr way you'll be happy.
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Arctic Spas 'Klondiker', has two loungers, one built for a shorter (5-6') person, one built for a longer (6'+) person.
The Bullfrog 552 also has this feature, we have a 451 and we love it.
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Well, we don't have anyone as short as 5'6" in our house. Two long loungers would be ideal, but I haven't seen that.
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Artesian has 2 x 4 construction to support the tub. Sundance only uses the insulating foam to support.
Complete LIE......Whoever told you this you should ignore anything they say.
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: Sundance dealer runs an immaculate facility that focuses on spas. Artesian dealer seems mainly focused on fireplaces and indoor stoves with the spas on the outside deck, but they do have a large quantity. Spas have water in them but are not heated and wet-test ready and one of the spas was really cloudy. I know they do their own service and it 'sounded' good but why would they let their spas look like that?
"Sundance dealer runs an immaculate facility that focuses on spas. Artesian dealer seems mainly focused on fireplaces and indoor stoves with the spas on the outside deck, but they do have a large quantity. Spas have water in them but are not heated and wet-test ready and one of the spas was really cloudy. "
I think you answered your own question. Sundance is the superior spa in this scenario. (let the hate begin)
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We have the Artesian Piper Glen and are THRILLED!!!! We absolutely love the amount of power that it has. We can't imagine not having the individual controls at each seat. We are in it every night and at least twice a week or more we'll say to each other things like "This is the perfect spa." or "This was a great decision!" or "We're really spoiled with these individual controls"
We also went to a few places where the spas were not wet-test ready. Didn't go anywhere that the water was cloudy, but you did say it was only in one spa, right? Things do happen with the water from time to time. Maybe a seasonal worker forgot that to put chemicals in that spa. Maybe someone wet testing it had on tons of body lotion and their suit was full of detergent. I would not worry since it was just the one tub. Perhaps you can ask about it when you go back.
While we were at our dealer wet testing, a few people came in to buy chemicals and they were raving about the dealer. When you are there wet testing, check out the customers who come in. Maybe you can ask a few of them how the dealer is. My dealer gave me a few references. These customers had the model I was interested in. One of them was on his second one.....he had sold the first one with his home and they loved it so much that when they bought a spa for their next home, they bought the same spa.
Good luck!
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ctkathy, based upon your observations and my own over the years, I would go with the Sundance, hands down. This is my unbiased opinion.
Good luck with whichever you choose. :)
Terminator
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ctkathy,
As the proud new owner of a SunDance Maxxus, rest assured that the Maxxus does indeed have a 2x4 wood construction all the way around the tub. Not sure who told you they were only supported by the foam, but my 2006 has a frame all the way around it. Also, the Maxxus has 5 pump motors in total (3 for the jets, 1 circ pump, and the air pump.)
I can't speak to the Artesian as we did not wet test that brand, but I can tell you that in the little over a week we have owned our Maxxus, we absolutely love it.
Best of luck with whatever you choose.
Jr
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Based on what you've said, Sundance.
Also the "Sundance only uses foam for support" claim is a load of garbage. I was going to recommend the Accolade, but if you want the lounger that's out. But based on what you've said and what your Artesian dealer presented, definitely the Sundance.
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Well, of course being a sundance lover, I must get my hand in this cookie jar! I sold against Artesian in California, and the spas are neat looking, and very powerful. I too found the water to be cold (odd for a dealership), and not great looking though. Anyway, back to the point.. The spas have more pumps than Sundance, having one pump per station on some models, which is nice, but will cost you more on the electric bill. I'd ask any Sundance owner, and I'm sure they'd tell you that their spa kicks butt in power. :)
It sounds like your Artesian Salesperson is trying to talk down a spa he or she doesn't know very much about. It also sounds like your Sundance person isn't telling you the things they should be telling you in a Sundance presentation. I have always been quite fond of the Sundance Filtration (with the skimmer gate that floats), and all of the 880 series have the micron filter that you throw away, not spray out. Also, the framework is all 2x4's like everyone's saying.
If you're the "Maxxus" type of person, you're going to spend a lot of money either way, and it's worth wet testing both spas. That's the true test. One of the seats in either spa may just rock your world and make a "night and day" difference over the other spa, you never know.
In closing, my vote is definately for Sundance! :D But, I'm a tad biased since I've been working with Sundance (and Jacuzzi) for 4 years, and everyone in my family owns a Sundance.
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In response to SpaGirlAZ therory of energy efficiency, I would like to say that one 3 HP pump running a seat will cost less than a whatever (probably greater than 3 ) HP pump running several seats? No doubt that the Maxxus has a lot of power but I think you need to be selling the Maxxus on it's benefits vs using "scare tactics" on the Artesian! :)
Also all major manufacturers are giving you clean water so Sundance don't have nothing on Artesian there either! My water is as clean and sparkling and hot ... that was a dealer thing hopefully you weren't infering that an Artesian spa can't keep water clean and hot! It's amazing what sales people will say!
Besides being neat looking and powerful, Artesian makes an outstanding tub and back it up with great customer service IMO. The dealer is the person that can make or break a manufacturer's reputation and the manufacturer needs to treat the customer correctly if they find a dud dealer.
I personally don't understand any dealer who sells spas and keeps their water yucky. I've seen 2 seperate dealers which was like that.
Their both good companies - let your wet test and confidence in the dealer be your guide.
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Don't worry about the dealer. Let the wet test, features, and price make your decision. They are both quality manufacters so no worries there. Everyone on this forum rants about dealers being important. I couldn't disagree more. Funny how all of them just end up defending their brand.
I have an Artesian Gold series and I couldn't be happier, especially with the variable flow system, and very powerful jets. A very theraputic tub..
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Don't worry about the dealer. Let the wet test, features, and price make your decision. They are both quality manufacters so no worries there. Everyone on this forum rants about dealers being important. I couldn't disagree more. Funny how all of them just end up defending their brand.
I have an Artesian Gold series and I couldn't be happier, especially with the variable flow system, and very powerful jets. A very theraputic tub..
There are or were some neutral dealers around - not every one of them who posts are obnoxious about their brand! ;)
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Also all major manufacturers are giving you clean water so Sundance don't have nothing on Artesian there either! My water is as clean and sparkling and hot ... that was a dealer thing hopefully you weren't infering that an Artesian spa can't keep water clean and hot! It's amazing what sales people will say!
I never said the Artesian spa couldn't keep water clean. I believe I said that the dealer I visited had a Piper Glen that had very cloudy water. This spa was located right where customers entered the store. She said to call her the day before we were going to come in to wet test so they could clean up the water. We'll probably try the Artesian before we definitely decide on the Maxxus, but right now I am heavily leaning towards the Sundance Maxxus.
Thanks for the info about the pumps. I like the idea of individual pumps and don't really care if my electric bill goes up $10-$20 a month for our hot tub project.
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My sarcasim wasn't towards you, it was pointed at spa girl salesperson! Sorry ... you got in the way! ;)
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Hi,
I have owned a piper glen since may 2005 with no problems at all. keeping water clean is simple. I tried all major bands sold in our area, about 6 or 7 different tubs. Piper Glen was the most expensive but I feel it was worth what I spent, about $10,800.00 We are in the process of building second home on lake in NH and plan on another Artesian tub there. I would not take anything away from Sundance, but I liked the artesian better
Any question, e-mail me.....jcmsrv@yahoo.com
john mcdonough
Vinney............how are you!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I did Google Bullfrog and Arctic and the nearest dealers are an hour or more away from me. Thanks for the info, though.
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So i havent posted in a while continue to lurk and Im hoping that my comments can give you one more data point to chew on.
I've owned an Artesian Dove Canyon (lounger version of the piper glen) for just under a year now. When we were shopping a year ago, we looked at all the major brands and larger models (ie: sundance maxxmus/optima; hot springs grandee; jacuzzi 385, coleman, etc, etc.)
Anyway as many have said, wet testing was the key for us and we wet tested them all over a 3-4 month period. I am 6' 4" and my wife is 5" 10" and for us we found the best fit to be the Artesian, plus we loved the individual seat controls.
Anyway, in the last year we've enjoyed the tub about 2-3x a week, havent had one issue at all and have had really good luck keeping the tub clear and balanced.
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I never said the Artesian spa couldn't keep water clean. I believe I said that the dealer I visited had a Piper Glen that had very cloudy water. This spa was located right where customers entered the store. She said to call her the day before we were going to come in to wet test so they could clean up the water. We'll probably try the Artesian before we definitely decide on the Maxxus, but right now I am heavily leaning towards the Sundance Maxxus.
For the record I never said anything negative about Artesian. I suggested that in the scenario that you described Sundance is your best choice. I say that because the Artesian dealer was spewing blatant falsehoods about his competition and can't be bothered by maintaining hot, CLEAN water in his floor models. Not the best first impression in my book. What other defficiencies lurk below the surface? I'd rather not find out, that's all.
Good Luck and may you find the tub that's right for you.
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Don't worry about the dealer. Let the wet test, features, and price make your decision. They are both quality manufacters so no worries there. Everyone on this forum rants about dealers being important. I couldn't disagree more. Funny how all of them just end up defending their brand.
I have to completely disagree. The dealer can be just as important as the manufacturer. For the most part, anything that happens to the spa will be handled by the dealer. A good manufacturer coupled with a bad dealer is no better than a bad manufacturer with a good dealer. Just my opinion.
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Well, of course being a sundance lover, I must get my hand in this cookie jar! I sold against Artesian in California, ........commercial and negative jabs........, back to the point.. The spas have more pumps than Sundance, having one pump per station on some models, which is nice, but will cost you more on the electric bill......It sounds like your Artesian Salesperson is trying to talk down a spa he or she doesn't know very much about. It also sounds like your Sundance person isn't telling you the things they should be telling you in a Sundance presentation.
In closing, my vote is definately for Sundance! :D But, I'm a tad biased since I've been working with Sundance (and Jacuzzi) for 4 years, and everyone in my family owns a Sundance.
With all due respect to the sellers on this forum who try to do a very good job to support their brand, and respecting SpaGirlAZ comments and admission that she is in fact a "tad bit biased", the gibberish that they all put out is like the little angel on one shoulder and the little devil on the other, both whispering into your ear. This forum appears to be nothing more than psychological marketing warfare. No wonder we all get confused.
For instance, how can 5 motors in the Artesian Piper Glen cost more to operate if you can choose which seat you want to sit in and turn on ONLY that seat, rather than powering up several seats or zones. Why would you have to turn the other 4 pumps on? If 2 people are using the spa, turn only the 2 seats on they are using, IF the spa has 5 or 6 people in the spa once a year, turn ALL the motors on if you must. But the logic of 1 or 2 or even 3 motors in a Maxxus operating multiple jets and seats, how can that be more energy efficient.
EVERY spa out there you can look at, someone will say good things about it and 10 times that number will have something negative to say about it because there are far many more competitors who want to plug in a commercial for their particular brand and take negative jabs to inject negative innuendos and undermine any other choice than their favorite brand.
Take it with a grain of salt and anything you choose to buy, you will no doubt enjoy for a long time. Certainly there are "unhappy owners" of every brand for one reason or another.
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Don't buy into the 5 pumps garbage. They just use 5 extremely small pumps. You still have to fit them under UL standards.
That's 40 or 46 amps )+/- 10%.
Yeah try replacing 5 pumps in 7 or 8 years. You probably can't even reach them. Marketing geniuses. They are showroom lights and story. I disagree with design.
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Don't buy into the 5 pumps garbage. They just use 5 extremely small pumps. You still have to fit them under UL standards.
That's 40 or 46 amps )+/- 10%.
Yeah try replacing 5 pumps in 7 or 8 years. You probably can't even reach them. Marketing geniuses. They are showroom lights and story. I disagree with design.
And what company do you work for?
I don't know how long the pumps will last but I'm sure with proper water chemistry they all won't go "poof" in 7 or 8 years.
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Don't buy into the 5 pumps garbage. They just use 5 extremely small pumps. You still have to fit them under UL standards.
That's 40 or 46 amps )+/- 10%.
Yeah try replacing 5 pumps in 7 or 8 years. You probably can't even reach them. Marketing geniuses. They are showroom lights and story. I disagree with design.
And what company do you work for?
I don't know how long the pumps will last but I'm sure with proper water chemistry they all won't go "poof" in 7 or 8 years.
I've done a little spa service, I'd estimate 9-10 years out of most any pump before seals wear out, usually requiring the pump head be rebuilt or changed, so I'd still consider service access as an important point. Water chemistry doesn't have much to do with seal wear, BTW, but it will affect heater elements a lot...
John F
LV, NV
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Don't buy into the 5 pumps garbage. They just use 5 extremely small pumps. You still have to fit them under UL standards.
That's 40 or 46 amps )+/- 10%.
Yeah try replacing 5 pumps in 7 or 8 years. You probably can't even reach them. Marketing geniuses. They are showroom lights and story. I disagree with design.
And what company do you work for?
I don't know how long the pumps will last but I'm sure with proper water chemistry they all won't go "poof" in 7 or 8 years.
I've done a little spa service, I'd estimate 9-10 years out of most any pump before seals wear out, usually requiring the pump head be rebuilt or changed, so I'd still consider service access as an important point. Water chemistry doesn't have much to do with seal wear, BTW, but it will affect heater elements a lot...
John F
LV, NV
So with that knowledge, doing a rebuild at say 6 years may be the prudent thing to do. In my industry it's called preventative maintenance - is it cheap to repair pump seals?
As far as water chemistry affecting seals -that's what my dealer said how they can determine bad water chemistry - they look at the seals.
I wonder how may other spa techs have seen the seals go at a certain age. Nobody has really reported that as far as I have seen.
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Pump wear and tear is going to be model dependent. The more reputable a company, the chances are the better jet pump they're going to use. I don't like the idea of having five jet pumps in my spa. Chances are good they won't go bad, but there's still a chance.
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With all due respect to all who have posted, the number of pumps, power of the pumps, etc., etc., etc. really is not the point. The REAL point is how the tubs feel. If you get into an Artesian or a Sundance or any other tub, each tub will feel different...some better than others...TO YOU. Let your wet test be your guide and forget about everything else relating to pumps and pump efficiency.
Now for energy efficiency, i.e., running 1 smaller pump for 1 seat or a larger pump for two seats, the actual energy usage will not be that different. The biggest difference you will find regarding energy usage is how well the tub is built and insulated...and I don't intend to start a trivial FF v. TP debate...either is fine if well constructed. Another factor for efficiency is cover construction...a lousy, ill fitting cover will cost you more in energy usage. And one more factor is how often/how long the tub is used. Certainly a tub that is used more will use more energy.
If you get a quality tub from a quality dealer--a tub that you have wet tested and are happy with the therapy, you will be happy even if it costs you $20-$40 more in electricity a month. Forget $10/month...unless you don't use it. And if it goes over $40-$50/month, you've either purchased a lower quality tub or you have teenagers.... 8-)
(P.S.--Vinny, can I still be your friend? ;))
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With all due respect to all who have posted, the number of pumps, power of the pumps, etc., etc., etc. really is not the point. The REAL point is how the tubs feel. If you get into an Artesian or a Sundance or any other tub, each tub will feel different...some better than others...TO YOU. Let your wet test be your guide and forget about everything else relating to pumps and pump efficiency.
Now for energy efficiency, i.e., running 1 smaller pump for 1 seat or a larger pump for two seats, the actual energy usage will not be that different. The biggest difference you will find regarding energy usage is how well the tub is built and insulated...and I don't intend to start a trivial FF v. TP debate...either is fine if well constructed. Another factor for efficiency is cover construction...a lousy, ill fitting cover will cost you more in energy usage. And one more factor is how often/how long the tub is used. Certainly a tub that is used more will use more energy.
If you get a quality tub from a quality dealer--a tub that you have wet tested and are happy with the therapy, you will be happy even if it costs you $20-$40 more in electricity a month. Forget $10/month...unless you don't use it. And if it goes over $40-$50/month, you've either purchased a lower quality tub or you have teenagers.... 8-)
(P.S.--Vinny, can I still be your friend? ;))
Once again windsurfdog is the voice of reason! And what he says is true. But to discount any tub due to some dealer interjected crap is doing any shopper a disservice IMO. That was my original post I believe until it became a Sundance induced feeding frenzy (WSD you been through that battle before).
And yes, you can still be my friend! :)