Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: catfan9t on July 30, 2006, 10:43:49 pm
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We are looking to get our first "real" hot tub.
We are looking at a floor model (1 yr old) Jacuzzi 300 series that they has has been marked down from 13k to 7k. It has the radio, dual waterfalls, cover w/easylift and led lights. The other is an Island Spas (Artesian) Antigua. They are asking 7k for this one as well. My question is how much room is there for negotiation on hot tub prices? On our visit of Hot Springs and Jacuzzi brands they told us a price and then said they would throw in cover lift. On a spa they are quoting at 8k how much should I try to get them down?
Thanks.
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No set answer. Some dealers quote prices that are as low as they'll go, some may quote a price and have some negotiation room.
All you can do is try and see what happens.
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Once I knew the brand and model of spa we were interested in, I searched this forum to see what it has been selling for.
We were torn between the Sundance Bahia and the Hot Springs Tiger River Caspian. I knew they were comparable in price, but we did a wet test, and it was no question for us-- the Bahia was THE one. I can't stress how important it is to wet test; it can make all the difference in the world.
The price my Sundance dealer gave seemed a little high, but I mentioned what prices I'd seen it go for (he seemed shocked) and negotiated down from there.
He was pretty set on price, but I came in with my notebook in hand, fully prepared having done my homework when we did the wet test, and it showed. He mentioned a couple of times that I looked prepared and finally gave us a good deal, but I think his price was pretty set; not much wiggle room. He knew we were serious, had the cash and were comparison shopping-- he definately wanted to grab our business.
The Hot Springs dealer was about the same; they have monthly specials on certain spas-- $1,000 off, and the prices seemed very fair for those models; don't think there would've been much negotiation there either.
Another tactic in negotiating is to see what they'll throw in for you-- an upgraded cover, coverlift, steps, chemicals, setup and delivery... all these things add up quickly, and if negotiated well, can be added in at no additional cost.
So, I guess my answer is, do your homework and decide what you want, post on this forum what you want and ask what a fair price for it would be, and when you walk into the showroom, you'll already have an idea as to what a fair price is, and can confidently proceed from there.
Good luck!!
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Dealers generally are making about $2000-$3000 on spas. Sometimes a bit less, sometimes a bit more. It really depends on the model and the dealer. They are on the higher end of that range for the higher end models, and the lower for the lower.
I could haven gotten the antigua for the low to mid 5's.
That would be picked up by me 2 hours away, however I can tell you it only costed me $50 in gas to pick up my spa.
I bought an Artesian Gold Opal(brand new 05) for $6177.
Shop around, keep going further and further away from the city and your prices will be better.
There is more negotiaton than you think!
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For our company, there isn't a whole lot of negotiation. We try to give everyone the same fair price. We do have 2 sales during the year where every tub is on sale. Other wise, it depends on how long we've been sitting on certain tubs. Remember this: most dealers pay interest on tubs that have been in stock after a certain amount of time.
Also, we can take off a little bit for cash deals since we get charged by credit card and financing companies.
It can sometimes depend on the dealer and their staff as well. If you go to places that have straight commission salespeople, then they might not be so willing to lose money out of their pocket. At a place like ours, we are hourly and salary, so there is no pressure to get more $$$ out of you.
Lastly, there is no such thing as throwing something in at no extra cost. You're paying for it in the price of the tub, but it still doesn't hurt to ask if the dealer won't/can't come down any further in price. I know I've comprimized my $50 bonus for selling a tub just to get the sale before.
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Boo based on your research what do you think a fair price is for the Bahia?
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Sledjunkie
Is the profit range you listed based on mslp?
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The profit is based on the following:
For example say the bahia is listed in the low 7's. The dealer is making approx $2000 as he/she paid approx $5000 for it.
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By your reasoning...
Bahia $5000
shipping $300
lifter $150
ozone $180
chem kit $170 (aprox 4 mo. supply)
steps $125
delivery $350
Total $6275
I guess a thousand dollars is enough for all the rest of the stuff you need to keep your business operating. Lets see, electric bill 600, damn now I only made 400, ok so um phone bill 325 shit I'm down to 75 bucks, and I still havent paid any human beings.
The profit is based on the following:
For example say the bahia is listed in the low 7's. The dealer is making approx $2000 as he/she paid approx $5000 for it.
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HotSpring dealers only mark their spas up $10 over wholesale. This is in order to give their customers the best deal possible. Please don't take his $10 away.
Terminator
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The profit is based on the following:
For example say the bahia is listed in the low 7's. The dealer is making approx $2000 as he/she paid approx $5000 for it.
Didn't you buy yours from one of Artesian's Factory Outlet stores? Did the factory direct rep make any profit or did it all go to the factory?
Terminator
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UCD9699,
I've read on this forum that the average price for a Bahia is around $6,500-$6,995. I think you're the one who provided a lot of figures that I used, actually!! LOL
My dealer quoted me $7,100-without the stereo system (that would've been an additional $500), but including everything else-- upgraded cover, coverlift, steps, chemical kit, setup & delivery.
I asked him if I could get it for $7,100 out the door (tax included) , and he agreed, only if I wouldn't mention to friends and family the exact deal he gave me; he said he couldn't replicate that for others. It put the spa price before taxes at around $6,575.
Hopefully that's a fair price for us and for him-- I wanted to get the best deal possible, but didn't want to rip the dealer either. Actually, we were down there today and put down the deposit.
I have to say, knowing that dealers are all over this board, that it made a world of difference. The HS salesman was very nice, but exactly that-- a salesman.
The Sundance dealer also happened to be the owner. He was obviously proud of his product, but told us if we wet-tested somewhere else and preferred that brand, to get it-- our satisfaction with the product is what counted. He was not at all pushy, but had a love and great knowledge about his brand, which made us love the Bahia all the more.
We're confident that he'll make good on his promises, be there for any help we may need, and are not just another number for him to push his product upon.
Does that sound like a fair price to you??
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wisoki, your taking those numbers I provided as actual. It was an example only.
The $2000-$3000 range I provided is real. Call it whatever you want, but it is what the average spa dealer makes per sale of a tub. The extras that spa dealers give you are basically that, extras and the extra cost is factured into my range.
I have a family member who retired from the spa business a few years back. He was in the business for 10+ years. This is where I get my information.
Just ask Mr. Texas, he'll tell you, or will he.. hmmm...
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Yet here you are publishing the informatiion on the internet.
I asked him if I could get it for $7,100 out the door (tax included) , and he agreed, only if I wouldn't mention to friends and family the exact deal he gave me; he said he couldn't replicate that for others. It put the spa price before taxes at around $6,575.
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Oh, I know, and your numbers are pretty close, but it is also important for those shoppers out there to understand how quickly that miniscule proffit vanishes based on the cost of doing business, of which I didn't even scratch the surface. There isn't as much negotiating room as one might think. Ant Term is quite open about his $10 mark up.
wisoki, your taking those numbers I provided as actual. It was an example only.
The $2000-$3000 range I provided is real. Call it whatever you want, but it is what the average spa dealer makes per sale of a tub. The extras that spa dealers give you are basically that, extras and the extra cost is factured into my range.
I have a family member who retired from the spa business a few years back. He was in the business for 10+ years. This is where I get my information.
Just ask Mr. Texas, he'll tell you, or will he.. hmmm...
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$500 - 1000 is closer to the end profit. The $3000 "profit" comment was a bit misleading. As Frank pointed out, that's before overhead costs. It takes a LOT of spas, chemicals and rubber duckies to stay in business and be profitable! And I'm not even talking about getting rich here!
This industry is far too competitive for any dealer to be soaking their customers on price (so to speak). They may do it for a short while but there's no staying power to these dealers.
Steve
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I still get a kick out of those who think that if they know how much the dealer paid for the spa, they can decide for themselves how much the dealer's markup should be.
I makes absolutely no difference to me what my dealer paid for the spa they sold me, I only care about the amount I have to give them.
They make an offer, I either accept, or counter-offer, till some agreement is made. What the dealers cost has to do with this is beyond me.
If there is such an opportunity to sell premium spas for a smaller markup and still be able to maintain a viable business, why hasn't someone done it yet? Sounds like a goldmine waiting to be discovered.
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Brewman- I completely agree. If they agree to a price, then that's all that matters to me as well-- they wouldn't agree to it if there was zero profit involved or if it was going to put them out of business. I don't think anyone here is trying to take money from a dealer's pocket, rather trying to come up with a fair compromise...
Wisoki- You have no idea where I'm at or what dealer I'm speaking of-- there's a big difference in posting information that can prove valuable to strangers across the country looking for a fair deal as opposed to me bragging to my friends and family (sorry, you don't qualify) about the slammin' deal I got at dealer ABC.
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In every business plan there is a set profit margine that the dealer if they are smart will never go under! Those businesses who go under the set profit margines are the ones who cannot afford to service the products and customers in a fair and timely manner as they typically end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. This is what gets most dealers in trouble in a real hurry, so ya gotta think that the prices gotta be set as to make money and stay in business. I have never baught a product where the lowest price was the best product. I believe in product integrity and that if the product is worth what your asking for it and the person presenting the product has done their job in showing this value that price will not be an issue. If your questioning your dealers price than maybe he has left something out in showing you that the product is actually worth it. Many times I see prices on this board and think that the product is worth way more than what they baught it for. Good Luck!
P.s I cannot help that with the question even being asked that there is a lack of trust in your dealer as far as pricing is concerend is this distrust the relationship you wanna have for the life of your tub?
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You guys amaze me.
No offense Brewman, I especially disagree with your comments. I only pay for what I think it's worth, not what the dealer has it listed for. When I was shopping I compared tub to tub, feature to feature, price to price. I looked at every feature/option from all manufacturers. I evaluated pump brands,HP of pump, # of pumps, circ pump, jet #'s, jet types, insulation type/quality, size, color, filtration type, heater warrenty, cover,etc, etc..
I actually created a spreadsheet for the whole process with each model. I used this information to figure out what I would pay for the tubs I was interested in.
In this purchasing model Hotsprings to me was way overpriced for what you got, so were a few others.
So contradicting so of you...
Let me ask you all something.
Don't you shop online for the best price as opposed to local stores/dealerships? I think I've read most of you do.
Do you use the same mentality to buy a car? Do you shop around at different car dealerships and compare prices?
You have to remember these guys are in sales, they will take you for everything you got. Most (not all) are worse than car salesmen.
The reason why these spas are so much money is because you guys continue to pay top dollar. Haggle them, work them, and lie to them. If you think they're not doing it to you've got something to learn.
Sorry guys, that's my take on it.
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You guys amaze me.
No offense Brewman, I especially disagree with your comments. I only pay for what I think it's worth, not what the dealer has it listed for. When I was shopping I compared tub to tub, feature to feature, price to price. I looked at every feature/option from all manufacturers. I evaluated pump brands,HP of pump, # of pumps, circ pump, jet #'s, jet types, insulation type/quality, size, color, filtration type, heater warrenty, cover,etc, etc..
I actually created a spreadsheet for the whole process with each model. I used this information to figure out what I would pay for the tubs I was interested in.
In this purchasing model Hotsprings to me was way overpriced for what you got, so were a few others.
So contradicting so of you...
Let me ask you all something.
Don't you shop online for the best price as opposed to local stores/dealerships? I think I've read most of you do.
Do you use the same mentality to buy a car? Do you shop around at different car dealerships and compare prices?
You have to remember these guys are in sales, they will take you for everything you got. Most (not all) are worse than car salesmen.
The reason why these spas are so much money is because you guys continue to pay top dollar. Haggle them, work them, and lie to them. If you think they're not doing it to you've got something to learn.
Sorry guys, that's my take on it.
Your theory would work if building and selling the spa cost nothing and that was all you had to pay for, but the tub is actually only part of the retail equation, adverting, employee wages and taxes, insurance, shipping, store leases, lights water and advertising all must fall into this mix as well as the cost to warranty such products. All this and of course we are still in business to make money. Thus having profit margines in place is crucial, if you would rather buy a spa from a dealer that wont be around this time next year by all means go with the one who will sell short and good luck on future help with your products. As far as buying online "good luck with that too"
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Honestly the dealer is/was not important to me at all and I didn't really consider it in my evaluation.
Similar to how I don't care much about a car dealerships for buying a car, or a lawnmower dealership buying a lawnmower.
Again, sorry dealers. I know there are alot of you on here.
Hot tubs are easy to work on and as long as parts are under warranty it's all that matters.
Manufacturer tech support can help troubleshoot if dealer is not around and send parts if need be.
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uh oh I smell sompin burnin! ;D
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You guys amaze me.
No offense Brewman, I especially disagree with your comments. I only pay for what I think it's worth, not what the dealer has it listed for. When I was shopping I compared tub to tub, feature to feature, price to price. I looked at every feature/option from all manufacturers. I evaluated pump brands,HP of pump, # of pumps, circ pump, jet #'s, jet types, insulation type/quality, size, color, filtration type, heater warrenty, cover,etc, etc..
I actually created a spreadsheet for the whole process with each model. I used this information to figure out what I would pay for the tubs I was interested in.
In this purchasing model Hotsprings to me was way overpriced for what you got, so were a few others.
No offense taken. You don't have the ability.
You'd have to establish credibility here first, and you haven't.
I'd like to know, though, why do you find it necessary to insult the people here who happen to sell for a living?
Saying that all they are interested in is fleecing their customers is offensive. If it were true, they wouldn't be here helping answer questions and giving free advice.
They'd instead be out on the prowl for their next victim.
And for the record, I pretty much shopped for my spa the same way you did, and paid what I considered a fair price.
Where in my post above did I say otherwise? ::)
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You guys amaze me.
No offense Brewman, I especially disagree with your comments. I only pay for what I think it's worth, not what the dealer has it listed for. When I was shopping I compared tub to tub, feature to feature, price to price. I looked at every feature/option from all manufacturers. I evaluated pump brands,HP of pump, # of pumps, circ pump, jet #'s, jet types, insulation type/quality, size, color, filtration type, heater warrenty, cover,etc, etc..
I actually created a spreadsheet for the whole process with each model. I used this information to figure out what I would pay for the tubs I was interested in.
In this purchasing model Hotsprings to me was way overpriced for what you got, so were a few others.
Well I've been in the industry for 8 yrs (I'm a baby compared to many here) and I can tell you that viewing spas at the dealer, reading spec sheets and making a spreadsheet is wise way to shop and decide but please don't think you've educated yoursef to the point where you're anything more than an informed shopper (maybe a very informed one in fact). Part of what makes a spa a good buy is how it performs in the field over years and what kind of service you get from your dealer/manufacturer and your spreadhseet won't tell you that (no matter how informed you may think yourself to be) so you can poo-poo the dealer importance and decide who's worthy and who isn't all you want, it's just your opinion.
Let me ask you all something.
Don't you shop online for the best price as opposed to local stores/dealerships? I think I've read most of you do.
Do you use the same mentality to buy a car? Do you shop around at different car dealerships and compare prices?
I'm sure we all do. In the end I make a decision that I think is best for myself using all the info I can gather but I know I only know so much. Half the reason I do so is to satisy myself that I've uncoverd all the obvious stones and put the effort in but in the end it's always somewhat of a crapshoot depending on just how informed you are (I always hope to have friends with info as well).
You have to remember these guys are in sales, they will take you for everything you got. Most (not all) are worse than car salesmen.
Rats they are; those crooked spa salesmen!!! I guess they're all the people who couldn't make it through law school.
The reason why these spas are so much money is because you guys continue to pay top dollar. Haggle them, work them, and lie to them. If you think they're not doing it to you've got something to learn.
Hey, haggling is free and I always haggle!!! It doesn't hurt to ask but it sure hurts to wonder afterward if they would have bargained HAD you asked.
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Honestly the dealer is/was not important to me at all and I didn't really consider it in my evaluation.
Similar to how I don't care much about a car dealerships for buying a car, or a lawnmower dealership buying a lawnmower.
Again, sorry dealers. I know there are alot of you on here.
Hot tubs are easy to work on and as long as parts are under warranty it's all that matters.
Manufacturer tech support can help troubleshoot if dealer is not around and send parts if need be.
Heres a scenario, its 110 degrees in Phoenix mid summer and all be danged if ya dont notice your hottub is dead. You call the dealers but get a message that the numbers no longer in service. You call the factory and they say they will send ya the part in 3 or 4 days. Do you A, leave the hottub filled and wait for the part and the heat to die down? b, complain about the dealers that went outta business and demand that the factory fly a tech out to repair it? Or c, buy from a reputable dealer with standing in the community that can afford to be in business for a long time to come not to mention they probably have the parts u need in stock. I am thinkin c is the logical answer for me as in 110 degrees I am not goin out to repair hottubs (not again anyway).
but hey ya saved $1500 ;D
Nor would I want to be workin on my hottub in the dead of winter no matter how good the tech support is this would suck!
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Wow, sorry to have hit a soft spot.
I did say most (not all) didn't I??
It's just the way I see it. It IS my opinion and I will continue to state as such.
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I would choose A hands down.
Answer B is just stupid, sorry.
So my hot tub is down for a few days, hell even if it's a few weeks.
It's only a hot tub!!!
$1500 for a couple of days without my hot tub isn't bad money IMO. Heck even if I sweat/freeze for a couple of hours doing the work myself it's a no brainer.
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first I smell somethin burnin from a neighboring barn here in Broomfield where it seems they are doing somesort of nuclear hottub testing, now I hear a birdie singing "cheap cheap" I think its time I went for a soak in the new Avalon!
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Lets see:
So far, spa salesmen will take us for all we've got.
Most, but not all are worse than used car salesman.
And repairing spas is so easy that anyone could do it.
But you're not trying to poke at sore spots. Good thing, I guess.
What I want to know is which of you money grubbin greedy spa salesmen are worse than used car salesmen, and which ones of you are better?
And how would such a standard be measured? By sales volume, or gross dollar, or what?
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Lets see:
So far, spa salesmen will take us for all we've got.
Most, but not all are worse than used car salesman.
And repairing spas is so easy that anyone could do it.
But you're not trying to poke at sore spots. Good thing, I guess.
What I want to know is which of you money grubbin greedy spa salesmen are worse than used car salesmen, and which ones of you are better?
And how would such a standard be measured? By sales volume, or gross dollar, or what?
Um I am top writer for the company. which does that make me?LOL
I only know of one person, I mean company (and I use that term loosely) that would expect his,I mean their customers to attemp to work on their own spa>
;D
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I said repairing spas is easy. I didn't say anyone could do it.
And as far as the dealers on this board. I haven't read one post (well maybe one) that would put them in the category of taking us for all we've got, and being worse than a car salesman.
I was simply stating most are like that, and IMO it's true.
I’m not complaining because they are, it’s just that historically that’s just the mentality of the spa business.
Do you really think all hot tub dealers post to this forum?
Not even close!
I went to alot of dealers in my area, and let me tell you, most were sleezy. Closer to the city I went the worse they got.
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I said repairing spas is easy. I didn't say anyone could do it.
And as far as the dealers on this board. I haven't read one post (well maybe one) that would put them in the category of taking us for all we've got, and being worse than a car salesman.
I was simply stating most are like that, and IMO it's true.
I’m not complaining because they are, it’s just that historically that’s just the mentality of the spa business.
Do you really think all hot tub dealers post to this forum?
Not even close!
I went to alot of dealers in my area, and let me tell you, most were sleezy. Closer to the city I went the worse they got.
Sleezy? hmmmmmmm? may I ask what part of the country you live in? And what kind of spa you actually baught?
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North East. And I live in northern new england.
I bought an Artesian.
Yes sleezy. That's pretty much what I felt.
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/b0cb1d13.jpg)
Terminator