Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Gomboman on July 22, 2006, 01:20:07 am
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Wow, we just got our last electric bill. It's been very hot in Southern California so far. I believe it's been the hottest summer in the last decade.
Anyway, my electric bill this month was $270 for 1,335 Kwh's. We are on a tiered system depending on our usage amount. If we use more than our baseline (496 Kwh) we are penalized. The majority of my bill was at $.37 Kwh.
I don't think my spa contributed very much this month since my heater has been turned down to 80 degrees.
How much was your last Electric bill?
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Funny you should post this today. Got this months bill today....
$432.04 for 1795 kwh. :o >:( :-/
Have I mentioned I have a 1227 sq ft single story 3 bedroom house. Looks like I'll be living out of my minivan if this continues. Can't wait for next months bill with the new rate increase.
Oh and I do believe the increase to .49 is accurate... currently for more than 100% of baseline I pay:
.04660 for delivery related charges
.10369 for DWR Generation
.31935 for SCE Generation
= .46964 per kwh
Aye yaye yaye.
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WOW, and I thought my bill was high. Now I feel better....... BTW, never really noticed any jump after tub was installed in May, but lets wait til the winter months and maybe that will change?? Here was my last months usage:
KWH used - 1233
avg KWH use per day - 41.1
Avg temp per day = 64F
Total bill = $91.25
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Man, I'm glad I don't live on the left coast. We have a tiered charge as well. .0537 for the first 600 and .0741 after that. Add delivery, distribution, golf outings, kickbacks and general graft charges and you get .108 per KWH.
$199.54
1838 KHW
June 2005 -1751 KWH (before spa)
.108 per KWH
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My electric bill is tiered too. First 600 KWH is at $0.143 and after that it's $0.151.
I paid $178.02 for 1218 KWH. Besides the tub, I have central air and a 1 hp pool filter running about 8 hours a day ... not to mention various electrical consumer products. I have to mention that I have gone to only using the tub once a week or so.
Brooke, the one thing that you should be concerned about comes from the statement "my house went from xº to yº in 30 minutes" ... I'm not an energy engineer but that's too quick for a house to gain that much heat.
My setback thermostat goes from 72º to 76º at about 8:45 AM and on Monday when I was home and the temps reaching 100º outside, my thermostat read 76º at 1:30 PM. It was warm in the house (at least to my liking) and I lowered it to 74º.
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So many issues have been resolved and so much great information has been shared on this forum. I know we can all get together and compile some sort of energy savings guideline. I know I have learned so very much about electric and energy savings in my recent persuit of my unexplainable high electric bills...Thanks to Cola, BobRex, Chas, Drew, Vinny and so many others, my house now operates using less electric (much less since my plumbing issues have been resolved). This is all hot tub related as I am sure when energy costs are so high, the cost to buy and own a tub will prohibit many folks from having one. (one of the plumbers that helped me this week is getting rid of his because the electric is killing him). I also think dealers could benefit because they would be able to say...follow these guidelines and by reducing your overall electric usage, you CAN afford to run a tub...
Gombo, you seem to me to be an analytical kind of guy, just from the questions you ask..I could see you investing in solar domestic hot water to offset your electric hot water bills....There is a tax credit this year and I am sure in California you get tons more degree days than we do out here. My 20 year old solar panels can do the job most of the summer and help out a lot in the winter....
Just switching out incandescent light bulbs (especially the huge ones in the high hats) will not only save electric but will be much cooler, so your air condition works less...
Brooke, the whole house fan thing...I love mine but it is only effective at night right now. I know you have a one story house, but they make huge units that could be mounted in windows...they are noisy but they can cool your house before you turn on your air. sometimes I would rather have the fan than be closed up with air condition.
This year I have increased the chlorine in my swimming pool and reduced the filtration times. I also bought an oversized pump so that the water filters faster.
Anyone with a hot water heater, be sure to wrap it tight with extra insulation on the outside of the tank. I have a stone lined tank for my solar water, it is also wrapped in insulation.
Steve (Cola) showed me what some things use as far as kWh and how much each could contribute to my electric. When things are broken down like that , it makes it easy to shut something off or remember to turn off lights ....
Ok, Off my soapbox, I have a weeks worth of laundry to catch up on....(another great energy savings....don't do your laundry for a week!) ;)
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Man, I'm glad I don't live on the left coast.
It all depends on what part of the left coast. Here in WA our state sells excess electricity to California so as per the example above we pay much less. I also noticed on my bill that we are getting credits for wind-power. Not sure what's up with that, but I won't complain about a credit.
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Reading Boni and Jack's posts it reminds me here in NJ they're running a solar energy program.
Apparently they are giving huge tax credits to install solar power cells on your home. If your house faces a certain way the roof can accept these cells and you can sell energy back to the utility.
I do like that idea BUT I have mature trees and I would hate to get rid of them at this point ... I believe they help with energy conservation as they shade my house in the summer, drop their leaves in the fall and maybe my house has some solar gain.
Boni's post about her plumber getting rid of one is interesting, when I was getting estimates an electrician told me (my wive was there too - that's all I needed :) ) that he had one and the meter goes crazy ... thankfully I bought a quality tub and it's not too bad.
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Vinny, if you have the right orientation, I would say just take a look. I think you may be talking about the PV cells that generate electric. I would love to put in a system like that but they are very expensive right now. I have two panels that use a small circ pump to circulate
antfreeze from the roof to my 80 gallon stone lined tank. I can tell you right now, I am cranking 150 degrees in the panels, so I have 80 gallons of water at 150, diluted to usable temperatures, means far more than 80 gallons.
We installed this system over 20 years ago in the first big energy crisis. It has paid for itself over and over again and I just love the fact that much of my hot water is free.
I have a friend that is having such success with his new system that he is selling electric back to PECO.
Remember, insulation and many other energy saving improvements are included in this government plan. ;)
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Our rate is about $.07/kwh. Year round, we average maybe $120/month or so. Summertime the A/C runs a lot and that up's the bill. In winter the hot tub takes a bit so it stays pretty level.
This month has been pretty hot- I'm not looking forward to our water or electric bill.
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here in the great state of NY I pay .13per kwh. last month was 1385 kwh usage for a bill of 179.15. I think we are second to California in electric costs in the nation. I guess at .37 kwh I can't complain to much.
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here in the great state of NY I pay .13per kwh. last month was 1385 kwh usage for a bill of 179.15. I think we are second to California in electric costs in the nation. I guess at .37 kwh I can't complain to much.
Naw, NJ has you beat ... We have more corruption!
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Vinny, if you have the right orientation, I would say just take a look. I think you may be talking about the PV cells that generate electric. I would love to put in a system like that but they are very expensive right now. I have two panels that use a small circ pump to circulate
antfreeze from the roof to my 80 gallon stone lined tank. I can tell you right now, I am cranking 150 degrees in the panels, so I have 80 gallons of water at 150, diluted to usable temperatures, means far more than 80 gallons.
We installed this system over 20 years ago in the first big energy crisis. It has paid for itself over and over again and I just love the fact that much of my hot water is free.
I have a friend that is having such success with his new system that he is selling electric back to PECO.
Remember, insulation and many other energy saving improvements are included in this government plan. ;)
My orientation is that I'm straight ... thanks for asking! ;)
Seriously, my house is about perfect for solar energy cells. I own an A frame roofed house that aligns up almost perfectly to the east - west plane of the sun. My trees are my concern (but ask me again in the fall -LOL!!), I would hate to either cut them down totally or trim them back for the panels to work at their most efficient level.
I went and looked at them after your post and they are probably a full story above my house. I have 5 in the back and 2 in the front - they are great to have and the ones in the front really are beautiful IMO.
I also know these systems are expensive, probably in the $60,000 range with the homeowner's final price after rebates and such to be around $20,000 , the article that I read said it was going to take 19 years to pay it off with the saving - don't know if this is true but that's way too long for a payoff IMO
I did my best to get my house as energy efficient as possible - I put in a 92% efficient furnace, 14+ SEER a/c unit, whenever I open up an outside wall - I add insulation (the stuff I'm adding is way thicker than what's in there from the builder - the house is 36 years old) and have used compact flouresent wherever I can but we rally don't like the quality of the light it puts out.
Something that's exciting in the future (I am a nerd) is LED technology. It's advancing fairly rapidly and hopefully they will produce a LED capable of producing enough light as a 60Watt bulb. It might only use 1/2 Watt to produce that light. Most new cars are using LED lights for stop/brake lights and they are making them brighter all the time.
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Mine was $339 most recently for 2638KWH in my 3600 sq. ft. 2 story home. We had 11 days straight of over 100 degree temps, with the average being around 98, so the AC was rarely off.
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Just in case anyone wants to use a out of country comparision. We live in the province of Ontario. We also have a two tier system .058 for the first 600 kwh and .067 for everything afterwards.
$184
1516 kwh used
included in the $ is debt retirement
transmission costs
loss factor
We also have not noticed any difference since the tub was installed in May. The house is 1256 sq. ft. with central air, 3/4 hp pool filter motor( on a timer), set back thermostat and florescent lamps used were we can. I don't know but it looks comparable.
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I'm a firm believer in ceiling fans to help beat the heat.
I keep my air con set from 68* to 70* (*degrees) and keep all my ceiling fans going non stop. My home is very cold to some. To me...and my haywire thyroid, I'm still burning up! LOL I have a two story home with zoned air. Heat pump on lower level and gas heat/electric air upstairs. I have approx 3K sq ft.
My bill during this last heat wave here in Alabama, my bill was high... $123.68: 1273 kw @ 10 per kilowat.
Our yearly average is 915 kw per mo. @ 8 cents per kw=$81.23 per month.
I do not have a hot tub yet. Still looking. In most of my rooms I have not just your typical one ceiling fan....I have at least two and three or four in open style rooms.
It's also shady around here. That helps.
Does that seem in line with you guys?
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Here's my breakdown:
1,000 KWH @ 0.09295 $ 92.95
968 KWH @ 0.11295 $109.34
Brewman...where do you live?
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Cappy... you used 200 kwh more than me and my bill was more than twice yours.
I can only imagine how high next months bill will be. We reached a high of 114 yesterday. I don't think we've been under 100 in about a month and there is no end in sight.
My garage reached 130 yesterday, so we went ahead and unplugged the extra fridge. I will have to go to the grocery store MUCH more often as the inside fridge only holds 2 gallons of milk and I usually go through 5-6/week. I still have the freezer plugged in. We thought about bringing it in the kitchen nook area instead of the table, but I think we will just see want next month brings with our other methods.
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the inspector that checked out the house for us before we bought said the WORST place to put an extra fridge/freezer is in the garage, due to major temp fluctuations. He recommended the basement, though, as it normally keeps cool in summer and doesn't get too drastic either way in winter. With us having all sorts of electrical items around here (sorry, I'm a gadget FREAK), I don't think our bills are too high....budget of $145 for gas and electric combined each month.
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Brooke, the only thing I can say is at least you won't be getting killed this winter when heating oil is $4.00 a gallon .. ???.That really won't surprise me! Could you get a small dorm type refrigerator for your milk? And that might fit somewhere under a counter? I am still going to get rid of my freezer. It is 20 years old and I found an energyStar to replace it, only about 3/4 the size. I will get some references together to help you reduce your overall energy usage. ;)
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North Carolina. 4-year old home. 3350 square foot 2-story home. Wife keeps AC @ 78 in summer and keeps the Heat around 70 in the winter. We are under Duke Power energy and we have the stable payment option so that the monthly payment doesn't flucuate too much. Monthly cost is .....(This is goign to KILL some people on here)....$139/month. Home prices here are also pretty reasonable as well. By the way - We ALSO have the "fridge" in the garage but ours is a an upright freezer instead of a fridge.
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Here's my breakdown:
1,000 KWH @ 0.09295 $ 92.95
968 KWH @ 0.11295 $109.34
Brewman...where do you live?
I live in a suburb about 20 miles south of Minneapolis. For some reason, electricity is relatively inexpensive compared to many other parts of the country.
It's the price of natural gas that scares us up here in the snow belt. Winter heating bills were pretty high last winter. Not sure what this year will bring, the doom and gloom announcers who usually warn us about this stuff have been pretty quiet so far.
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Brooke, if our bill gets as high as yours we're going to be living in our shed. I think I'd have to consider moving....to Minneapolis.. ;)
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Brewman, check into getting onto a budget program. At least that way over winter you don't get absolutely KILLED with the bills. ;)
We had to do that because during winter I get laid off, and we can NOT afford higher gas/electric bills during that time. Actually, this year sucks for construction as well.... :-/
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We have an old house in PA, no whole house AC due to no ductwork, heat by gas boiler and hot water radiators, and our 75 yar old house has little to no insulation with no way to add w/o ripping all the plaster down. We do have two floor mounted AC units, but due to cost we usually just run the bedroom one at night when it gets too hot. Winter heating bills this year almost made me faint.
On to the purpose of my post, we are thinking about installing a geothermal system, not sure if anyone has experience with them but they mostly consist of a heat transfer field installed one of three ways; a grid-type system a fet feet below ground (good for large lots), a system of one or more vertical deep wells (good for smaller lots), or in a body of water. A pump in the home pumps a solution out through the field which in the winter gains heat from the ground or in summer dissipates heat from the home into the ground. A thermal accumulater in the home amplifies the heat transfer.
The beauty is few moving parts, basically just the pump, and the majority of your heating and cooling is free, also in summer the accumulater can use waste heat to heat your hot water for free. I believe you still need a redundant heater for winter here in PA for when its real cold.
An aquaintance of mine installed geothermal last year and I'm waiting to hear how summer goes for him. Only problem for me is I think we would have to retrofit ductwork and switch to forced air, but if I do that and rip out all the copper pipe and radiators I can probably sell the scrap to cover the cost.
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Brooke, if our bill gets as high as yours we're going to be living in our shed. I think I'd have to consider moving....to Minneapolis.. ;)
Hey, we have several nice homes for sale in our neighborhood. Would be nice having a fellow tubber on the block.
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Brewman, check into getting onto a budget program. At least that way over winter you don't get absolutely KILLED with the bills. ;)
We had to do that because during winter I get laid off, and we can NOT afford higher gas/electric bills during that time. Actually, this year sucks for construction as well.... :-/
We do have budget options available to us, I'm really not that interested, though. We just accept high gas bills December thru February as a way of life.
The other months of the year are much less, right now it's just $20/month or so to run the dryere and water heater.
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Nittany, your system sounds great but I bet the start-up is expensive (I am thinking drilling wells and all). I don't have duct work because I have baseboard hot water, but I was able to install the ductwork on the lower level of the house through the basement. My first floor has traditional central air. My second floor has
ductless split air units (Sanyo). they are great because each room has an individual temperature control and no ducts were needed. I also added one of these units to my sunroom. That way my house is zoned for both heat and aircondition. I love the ductless units, they are efficient, quiet and that way you can aircondition only the area that you are in. For example, in the day, I don't aircondition my upstairs or the sunroom, only the main part of the house. I can keep my air set at 80 degrees and be confortable since my airconditioner unit is a very effective dehumidifier. I also love the ceiling fans and use them too.
I can imagine that in the next 10 years, we will all see some pretty amazing life style changes as we try to absorb these tremendous increases in energy costs!
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Some of the resources that I used to try to reduce my electric usage:
http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/general.html
this one is in a recent edition of a womans magazine:
http://www.realsimple.com/realsimple/gallery/0,21863,1206325,00.html
There is also information on the government's energyStar site with calculators to help figure out energy usage.
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Our rate is about $.07/kwh. Year round, we average maybe $120/month or so. Summertime the A/C runs a lot and that up's the bill. In winter the hot tub takes a bit so it stays pretty level.
This month has been pretty hot- I'm not looking forward to our water or electric bill.
That sounds about right for me too here in good ol' TVA country.
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We have central a/c, but a window unit in our den. We are replacing it with a Hitachi mini-split (when husband gets to it after all the other stuff is done). We moved our big screen TV out there and we've been running the unit...I don't even want to see our bill this month!!
We've either got to get the mini-split installed or the TV may be back in the great room.
I can imagine that in the next 10 years, we will all see some pretty amazing life style changes as we try to absorb these tremendous increases in energy costs!
Yea...it will be the way it was 40 years ago. Only the rich will have ac and us poor folk with be back to none at all!! >:(
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I'm to the East of Brewman in the Twin Cities and my bill just came:
1265 kwh @ $0.08 total w/fees=$118 $3.81/day
gas=$23.62 $1.18/day
and my last quarterly water bill was.....$34.50!!!! ;D Guess I can drain and refill as needed as the water is cheaper than the dichlor I just got from my dealer!
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Cappy... you used 200 kwh more than me and my bill was more than twice yours.
I can only imagine how high next months bill will be. We reached a high of 114 yesterday. I don't think we've been under 100 in about a month and there is no end in sight.
My garage reached 130 yesterday, so we went ahead and unplugged the extra fridge. I will have to go to the grocery store MUCH more often as the inside fridge only holds 2 gallons of milk and I usually go through 5-6/week. I still have the freezer plugged in. We thought about bringing it in the kitchen nook area instead of the table, but I think we will just see want next month brings with our other methods.
FREEZER TRICKS........As a former airline inflight crew member, I was away from home.... A LOT!
To optimize the efficiency of my frig and deep freezer,
I froze large tupperware bowls of ice, transferred them to plastic bags and filled all empty space in my freezers with them. It served two purposes:
1) The ice maintained cold temps with minimal cost. *It costs less to cool a full freezer or frig than an empty one.
2) if the bags had lost their bowl shape, I knew the power had gone off while I was away and my food was bad.
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Nittany,
Something to think about..... Heat pumps, be they ground source or air transfer, tend to distribute warm, not hot air. As such, to be effective, the house should first be insulated and sealed. Otherwise you will feel drafts all winter and the system will be fighting the Pennsylvania humidity in the summer. Basically you will be heating and cooling with the windows open - not a good thing.
Yes, you will need an aux heat system. I'm outside of Allentown and I have a heat pump and oil burner. The heat pump provides 3 season HVAC and the oil burner is used from about December to March. My bills aren't outrageous - electric is typically less than $100 per month and my oil is maybe another $100 or so. But I have a heavily insulated house.
I'd seriously consider insulating before you move on a heat pump system. You won't regret it.
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I just got my electric bill...$303.36 for 29 days,..
1928 kWh. Based on the electric that I have been using per day since my pump problem was resolved, I should be able to reduce that by $100.00!
I have a question...Bama said that is is less expensive to cool a half empty freezer than a full one (rfrigerator as well). I guess I thought that the less mass that had to be cooled, the easier and cheaper to keep it cold...So I really tried to empty that old freezer and I also try to keep my refrigerator from getting really packed. does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
I am still on my mission to further reduce my electric bill...
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I have been told the same thing as Bama...it does go against what might seem like common sense at first....
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Mendo,
Can I ask what your electricity runs at the store?
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I guess my $270 electric bill isn't that bad. My next door neighbor had a $680 electric bill during the same period. They have a huge inground pool, spa, two extra refrigerators in the garage etc.
My neigbors don't try to skimp on anything. Sometimes they run their AC with the windows open which is very strange. The wife likes fresh air and the husband prefers AC so they compromise.
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Mendo,
Can I ask what your electricity runs at the store?
well....here in the heat of the summer running the air 24/7 with 4 spas....its about 350.00 but than...well.... you know....we sell Marquis..... ;)...about 200.00 in the winter
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well....here in the heat of the summer running the air 24/7 with 4 spas....its about 350.00 but than...well.... you know....we sell Marquis..... ;)...about 200.00 in the winter
That's not bad 101. Are you paying a commercial or business rate at the store?
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You know I do not know how it is rated....I mean we are in a retail center.... at my home my spa is about 20 bucks to run.....