Hot Tub Forum
General => General info Somewhat hot tub related => Topic started by: anne on April 01, 2007, 12:58:57 am
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I'm remodeling my kitchen, but still in the planning phases. Hope to be ripping everything out in less than 2 months, but i want EVERYTHING decided and purchased/ordered by the time I do demolition.
Anyone have granite counter tops, and dislike them for some reason? Any one have "engineered stone" like Silestone, or Dupont Zodiac? I'm leaning heavily towards one of those last two, so that I'm not ripping out mother nature's beauty just to stick it in my house.....but I love real granite. Reminds me of backpacking and mountain air.
Anyone used Kraftmaid cabinetry?
Anyone have a bamboo kitchen floor?
Anyone have a sink with just one big bowl rather than split in two bowls?
I'll make this hot tub related by stating that I REALLY need the tub to wash away the stress of making all these choices!!!
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Well, fwiw, we did our kitchen a few years ago. We bought cabinets at Lowes, and hired a friend to hang them. Crown molding on top, and a light rail on the bottom. He did an excellent job. We had an electrician friend wire the whole thing as soon as we tore out all the old, so we have more circuits and better lighting. We put lights over the counters all the way around, and we paid a little extra to get incandescent light fixtures so we could put them all on dimmers. Very nice.
Our new microwave is way more powerful than the old one, and we would have had a real problem if we hadn't put in a new circuit just for that.
We didn't put any lights up over the cabs, as my wife likes to keep a few odd things up there.
We chose to go with a plastic laminate which looks just like granite. I needed to get things done, and the stone guy let us down. We figured we could just buy the counter tops ready made - ours are just two straight lengths with no fancy turns or islands - and it was a fraction of the cost of stone. In fact, we figured that it cost us less to buy and have our friend install them than just the labor to install stone counter tops. But we figured we would do 'real' counters later, the cost was low enough that we figured we would use these for a year and then redo.
It's been several years, and the counter tops look as good as the day we put them in, and the money is still in the bank.
We put in a dual bowl sink - but one bowl is big and the other is just a small one for the disposer. We sure had a bunch of gunk in the sewer line behind the sink - be sure when you open everything up that your plumber cleans that line out well. Better yet, replace as much of it as you can while things are torn up. That is a real common line to have trouble later.
We went with tile floor. A tile guy owed us a favor...
8-)
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When it comes to kitchen cabinets, I have one suggestion only; IKEA! These guys make some great stuff in cabinetry and it is very, very affordable. I'm not sure where you live Anne, but checking into where your nearest IKEA is located and then visiting the store would be great start!
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Anne,
We JUST finished my kitchen last week. I did a ton of research on all of the questions that you just asked and I found a lot of great information at the GardenWeb kitchen forums site: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/kitchbath/
I ended up going with Formica countertops (figuring I could upgrade later) but I doubt I will because I really like these.
A double sink with a larger one on one side and smaller on the other. I'm too used to having a dish drainer in the sink and not on the counter.
Cork floors which I absolutly LOVE!
My rustic maple cabinets were custom made because I wanted too many odd things like toe kick drawers, etc.
If I can manage to do this right, I'll post a link to my before and after
(http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/57/657/9/18/31/2433918310053772793BuRcsh_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2433918310053772793BuRcsh)
Well, from what I can tell, If you click the photo, it will take you to my album of the rest of the photos. If it doesn't work, PM me your email and I will send the album to you. Good Luck!
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Anne, You have selected a Masco product, so you are safely within the somewhat hot tub related guidelines! Kraftmaid cabinets are beautiful and a good choice that is available at Lowes (if that is where you are looking). If you are going to have the cabinets installed, talk to the installer first. I selected Kraftmaid cabinets but when I finally found an installer that I was satisfied with, he only worked with Welborn. It worked out fine because most cabinet makers have similar styles and stains. Before you decide on your counter top, select your wood type (maple, oak, cherry) and cabinet style.
Granite is beautiful but it has limitations. For example, (I was told) granite can have fissures that are not visible. If you would put a hot pot on that area, the granite can crack. I love the look of granite in the right setting, but for my kitchen I wanted something that looked a bit warmer. Quite honestly,my kitchen didn't warrant granite.
I ended up selecting natural maple cabinets, a tile floor and Corian counter tops with an integrated sink. I love my integrated sink because it is so easy to clean. It is a dual sink, a small one on the left and the large one on the right. I like that configuration because you can use the small sink to wash vegetables, (or bird dishes ;D) while the large one can be used for other things. If you are thinking about changing the whole configuration of your kitchen, try putting masking tape on the floor to represent the new design. I added a large island and I had to imagine traffic flow and how the island would change the way that I use my kitchen. The tape helped me to determine where the island would go and how large it would be.
You might also want to think about things like roll out shelves and a slide out trash/recycle container.
My kitchen came out really nice, and I have to say there isn't anything that I would have done differently. My sister and brother-in-law just did their kitchen and I was amazed...they copied my kitchen almost exactly!!! :o :o Have fun, a new kitchen is a very exciting home improvement project!
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Anne, Check your PM
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I'd personally pass on putting a wood floor in a kitchen. What happens when you get a leak in one of your appliances or kitchen sink, or when a pet knocks over a water bowl in the middle of the night or pees on the floor or someone drops a gallon milk or ....... you get the idea.
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If I can manage to do this right, I'll post a link to my before and after
(http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/57/657/9/18/31/2433918310053772793BuRcsh_th.jpg) (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2433918310053772793BuRcsh)
Well, from what I can tell, If you click the photo, it will take you to my album of the rest of the photos. If it doesn't work, PM me your email and I will send the album to you. Good Luck!
Very nice, thanks for sharing. :)
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I redid our kitchen a few years ago and I can tell you some things we don't and do like ... this is just our opinion.
(-) We bought the Mills Pride cabinets from HD which are also a Masco product, we went with the factory put together version not the DIY put together. They seem OK but we question the sides as they are not wood, they seem to be a low level laminate. My wife questions how long they will last and I have no thoughts on the subject. Probably should have gone with all wood cabinets.
(-) I don't like cabinets without wood face surrounds (I think they call them face frames - think old fashion cabinets). You have a limited door opening range and its really hard to get a tight fit and all old homes are not square, unless you can install them without a soffit or have the ability to use crown molding to hide imperfections, but we are learning from this mistake.
(+/-) We used laminate counter tops and we fancied the edges - 45º bevel. Looks nice but my wife wants a higher end countertop now. SS sink was reused - it's a single bowl and we never had a double bowl. I think any of the higher end counter tops would be nice ... it really depends on what you like. Natural beauty is OK to use as it is something you will admire for a long time. We probably should have upped our budget for a "better" counter top.
(+) We used laminate tile for the flooring - there is also wood grain - we have Wilsonart and think it's great. The floor was just put in last summer. We put the wood look laminate in the family room about 4 years ago and it still looks great.
(+) Lighting is VERY important. We installed recessed lights in out kitchen and they work great. The working area of our kitchen is on the smallish side so we only installed 4 lights. I went around with a plug in version of a recessed light to get the areas where they would shine. We did not install undercounter lighting but they really are a nice touch.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - When you work with the designer go over the plan at least 10x before you make a decision. I was at odds with the designer at HD and he really didn't seem to know what he was doing even though he was a 20 year professional! He designed my kitchen without spaces for doors and drawers to open. Luckily I am a geek and research all that stuff before doing a project and I knew better than what he was telling me.
If you have any more questions, please ask.
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Vinny is right about the solid end cabinets. Otherwise, you really don't need the solid cabinets everwhere as they are very expenisve and you will only see the face anyway.
It took me about 2 years to finalize how I wanted my kitchen. If you are thinking about making changes, imagine how your kitchen could be more functional. My best example is the trash bin that I added in my island adjacent to the dishwasher. It simplifies my clean up so much because I just take the dishes from the island, given them a quick wipe with a napkin and they go directly into the dishwasher. Likewise, my storage is located close to the dishwasher so that eveything is within easy reach.
Vinny is right about lighting. I did the recessed lights but I also put in halogen task lighting over my island. Since my shift to energy efficiency, I replaced the flood lights with florescent lights and it makes the kitchen much cooler in the summer. The high hats with incandescent lighting will really make your kitchen hot. My kitchen is not fancy, but it is very functional..
You might also want to try HGTV website
http:// http://www.hgtv.com/
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Ruby, your project is awesome! Beautiful kitchen renovation! Thanks for sharing. I love to look at home improvement pictures :)
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I'd personally pass on putting a wood floor in a kitchen. What happens when you get a leak in one of your appliances or kitchen sink, or when a pet knocks over a water bowl in the middle of the night or pees on the floor or someone drops a gallon milk or ....... you get the idea.
I was concerned about this too, but after doing reasearch on it, I found that there are 2 kinds of cork floors: floating or glue down tiles. The downside to the floating is that #1 it sounds hollow and #2 water can get in the seams. I chose the tiles because after they are put down, they are finished onsite with 4-5 coats of urethane. Also. if there is damage, it is easier to take only 1 out to replace it. I'm also looking into buying some water detectors that I read about. Still researching though.
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THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - When you work with the designer go over the plan at least 10x before you make a decision. I was at odds with the designer at HD and he really didn't seem to know what he was doing even though he was a 20 year professional! He designed my kitchen without spaces for doors and drawers to open. Luckily I am a geek and research all that stuff before doing a project and I knew better than what he was telling me.
If you have any more questions, please ask.
I definatly agree about the 10x ! Go with your gut and think about how YOU use your kitchen. The people who help you with your design have some great ideas and will tell you what other people like and what works for other people but in the end it's still YOUR kitchen! There were some things in my kitchen that I wanted and people(my cabinet maker) raised their eyebrows and said they'd never seen or done it (my rolling peninsula) but in the end they loved the way it turned out, and so do I. I also had an unexpected surprise when all was said and done. I ordered 3 breadboards: 1 near my stove to put hot stuff on when it came out of my oven, 1 on the end of the penisula for xtra eating space for an xtra visitor or 2 and another by the sink. Well, the one by the sink happened to be right above my trash pullout! I discovered it when I was dicing onions and threw away the peelings.
http://[URL=http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2505973180053772793bgtbpi][IMG]http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/59/559/9/73/18/2505973180053772793bgtbpi_th.jpg[/IMG][/url]
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Thanks Boni. It was fun to do but I'm so glad it's over! I General Contracted it myself and my head was swimming with all the decisions that had to be made! I started the research in November and started demo on Feb 26th. It only took 1 month from beginning to end. :) Now the livingroom looks so outdated that I'm gonna have to redo that too!
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Wow Ruby, You are SO lucky! My kitchen was started in March and not completed until JULY! I did have a mudroom added, but it was long done and ready and my kitchen contractor just moved so slowly..I think we probably spent about $1000.00 in take-out because of how long I went without a sink or stove or anything. That is another point Anne, get everything detailed in your contract. You may even want to add time constraints. My contractor started 2 other jobs while he was working on mine. >:( >:(..so it really was a drawn out affair. Like Ruby said, listen to all the good ideas, but don't be talked out of something you like...or into something you won't use. And if you don't want to ...don't follow the NKBA guidelines ;D ;D
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We're in the middle of redoing our kitchen now. Due to our budget, we were sure we were going to have to go with laminate. However, we found some of the lower-end solid surfaces were almost as cheap as laminate. Even better, Home Depot just introduced a new line of granite from a company called Stonemasters, which is even cheaper than solid surface. Stonemasters only has 5-6 different colors, but one of them matched our kitchen exactly. Stonemasters is cheaper because it only comes in a few colors and sizes, so it might not work for your specific application, but you might want to look into it. This was about two months ago, but every time I'm in the kitchen I still get happy thoughts when I look at our REAL GRANITE counters.
We're going to reface our cabinets. If you like the general layout of your kitchen, and the cabinets are in good shape, you might want to give refacing a look. It's a good way to get a new "look" for your cabinets, at a fraction of the price.
As to the sink- we wanted a double bowl for hand washing, but also wanted a single bowl look (and for washing large items). We found one that's about 18" deep, and the bottom 6" or so is a double bowl, and it's single after that. We think it gives us the best of both worlds.
And, just to make this hot tub related: we had some money set aside for a special project, and were debating between getting a hot tub and redoing the kitchen. We decided on the kitchen, since our budget wasn't enough to get us a GOOD hot tub. We got halfway through, and our dealer called us with a terrific deal on a used hot tub. Now we're debating between fininshing the kitchen, and getting that tub...
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This may help, it's a countertop comparison chart thru Home Depot:
http://www3.homedepot.com/wcsstore/hdcom/en_US/HDCOM/InstallationServices/Countertops/Documents/countertop_comparison_chart.pdf
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Anne,
I've gutted and rebuilt 3 kitchens.
On the house we are in now we used Kraftmaid cabinets. I am quite happy with them.
We went with tile countertops since my wife had found some specific accent tiles she really liked. Now it's ten years later and we have considered replacing them with granite. With granite being so popular if you may want to sell the house within the life of the countertops they may add to the resale value.
Ruby, makes a good point. Countertops can be re-done relatively easily. So if the budget is a concern I would spend more money on quality cabinets. You can change up the look later with new countertops, but won't have to go through the expense of gutting and installing new cabinets.
Steve
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Thank you all for your enthusiastic imput!
Ruby- beautiful kitchen. Thanks for the pics and the countertop table. And I think I'll copy you and put a cutting board above the pullout trash/recycling! I think I'm going with Engineered stone, but tomorrow I'll say something else.
Campsalot- I keep hearing that about Ikea, so I guess I'll have to go look. I dont like most of their furnature- too modular and funky, but Ikea is literally 5 minutes away, so I have to check.
WHYNOT- I share that concern about durability of the floors. I will probably do vinyl or linoleum tiles. Likely linoleum, as it is a "greener" choice.
Chas- do you remember the line of Lowes cabinets? It seems that most of them offer particle board standard, and plywood sides as an upgrade. I'll keep that in mind.
Boni- corian is another top runner for me. So practical. And I read the NKBA guidelines.....and then decided to ignore them and go with common sense. Right now I have a kitchen with a fridge door that cannot open all the way, so I cannot open one of the crisper drawers.
D.P. - I'll have to look for a sink like that. Sounds interesting. And I hope you get the kitchen AND tub!
Svspa- good to hear that about Kraftmaid. I like what they offer as far as variety and features, so it is looking more likely that I'll go that way
Vinny- I'll go over my cabinet plans with a fine tooth comb before ordering. I'm not doing a soffit. Instead, tall cabinets up to the ceiling. Probably molding to finish it and hide imperfections, as you said. And as for cabinet style, You are talking about this, right?:
[size=9]A face-frame cabinet has a 1 by 2 frame that rims the cabinet's front edges, masking the construction and strengthening the box. Doors or drawer fronts normally overlay the frame but they may be flush or offset. Standard offset hinges are partially visible from the front.
The frameless cabinet utilizes European-style connectors and hinges to create a contemporary look with flush doors and hidden hinges. This method of construction is often used with laminate cabinets. Frameless cabinets usually have a solid top and back and base units sit on a separate plinth.[/size]
I'll go with face frames, as you said. and I like that look just fine anyway. My house is old, so would look better with traditional cabinets.
I appreciate all the ideas an advice. You guys may call me crazy, but I'm not getting a designer or a contractor. I'm designing it myself- been slowly thinking about it for months. I'm making only minor changes in the positions of things in the kitchen, but enough that just resurfacing cabinets is not going to work. Not moving the sink, and no room to add an island. I'll pull the permits myself, hire a few people to do the things that are best done by a pro (moving a gas line in, electrical, countertops). My wonderful father is going to help me install the cabinets, appliances and floors.
I want to get started in a month or 2, so that I can cook on the grill, and not order too much take out!
Anyone have a range hood they recommend?
:)
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Vinny- I'll go over my cabinet plans with a fine tooth comb before ordering. I'm not doing a soffit. Instead, tall cabinets up to the ceiling. Probably molding to finish it and hide imperfections, as you said. And as for cabinet style, You are talking about this, right?:
[size=9]A face-frame cabinet has a 1 by 2 frame that rims the cabinet's front edges, masking the construction and strengthening the box. Doors or drawer fronts normally overlay the frame but they may be flush or offset. Standard offset hinges are partially visible from the front.
The frameless cabinet utilizes European-style connectors and hinges to create a contemporary look with flush doors and hidden hinges. This method of construction is often used with laminate cabinets. Frameless cabinets usually have a solid top and back and base units sit on a separate plinth.[/size]
I'll go with face frames, as you said. and I like that look just fine anyway. My house is old, so would look better with traditional cabinets.
Anyone have a range hood they recommend?
:)
That's what I am recommending. As you find imperfections, it's easy to sand down the areas and get a tight fit. Molding will also achieve a nice fit.
I vented my range hood to outside. I bought a 200 CFM that HD sells ... I don't think it does much of anything, yes it works somewhat as the louvers do open outside when I turn it on.
I don't think your crazy designing at all. I did that myself although I pretty much copied what I had here. We did put in a double and single pantry where the wall oven was but other than that my kitchen is the same. You might have to sit with a designer before they order the cabinets ... put your plans on graph paper (I think the standard is 1/4" = 1') and have everything ready. Most countertop people want to take their own measurements - keep some of the old countertop to lay on top of the new cabinets until your new countertop is installed.
Are you gutting it totally including the walls? If yes, Install 1x6 boards between the studs at the cabinet tops and bottoms to be able to screw them in anywhere. I can go into more detail if you're interested.
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Hi Anne,
I love home improvement projects. I think it would be neat to see a couple of photo's maybe a "before" "during" and after shot?
My mother, as well as my sister just went through 2 fairly high end kitchen renovations, they both went with a dark/black polished stone for the counters. While this looks stunning, I'm hearing that they really can show the smudges. Just a data point - if you were considering a dark stone for the counters. You'll be polishing them, not just wipping them down.
As far as tile on the floor, I'm torn. I went with a lamainate and am very happy. Granted, it doen'st have the charm of stone or real wood, but it is nice. My folks had tile and when they did thier make over, they took it out and actually went with a very high end vinly. The stone was cold, cracked and ANYTHING that dropped on the floor, wine glasses, jars, eye glasses, would smash. I think if I had the budget and re-doing my kitchen, I'd go hardwood and put a very durable/mutliple coats of protector on it. My friend did this ussing reclaimed, antique wood for his floors and it looks fantastic. ;) My sister went with tile and it looks beautiful, but was $$$$$$$$.
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We just had the hardwood floors refinished in our whole house. There's a newer product called Bona® Traffic™ -- that is super for kitchens and high traffic areas of your home. Its typically used on restaurant floors and theatre stages. Water beads up, its hard to "scratch" and the finish is beautiful!
And I'm currently having new coutertops made for our kitchen. We're doing butcher block. Found a local artist that does gorgeous furniture and countertops. I know wood isn't for everyone -- but I am excited about them I'll try & post pictures when they're done.
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I'll definitely post before, during and after photos. I do like the look of dark counters, but the smudging issue may alter that.
I hope today to have "draft 1" of the cabinetry, down to the item numbers of what I want to buy. Yes, there will be multiple drafts, but i have a pretty good idea of how I want things.
I do expect the countertop people to do their own measuring and that is fine- they'll be installing, so they can make their own errors. ;D
No walls are being removed. Torn up to the extend needed to do some electrica and install a gas line, but that is it.
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I too, was in charge of my remodel!
I was going to go through Home Depot--worked with a designer, picked everything out, had computer drawings done....
Then someone mentioned custom cabinets! As a lark, I had someone come and give me an estimate based on my Home Depot plan. The price was nowhere near as high as I would have thought--we ripped out the 1970's soffits and have wonderful space that goes up to the ceiling. We "built-in" our fridge. Yes, we did end up spending a bit more, but the extra space and the cool details made it so worthwhile. I have deep drawers for my pots and pans rather than shelves, I paid extra for some pull-out shelves, etc.
We went with laminate countertops that look like granite figuring that we could update/replace those at a later time if we wanted.
We have a busy household. The floor guy asked me, "Do you see yourself getting out of the kitchen anytime soon?" hahaha Tile is very hard on your legs and back. We would have totally wrecked a wood floor within a week, so we went with Armstrong Congoleum linoleum that looks like tile. I find it funny, but everyone who comes over thinks that indeed, it is tile. I just LOVE it.
We also put in undercabinet lighting on dimmers, we have a desk/work station where the cabinets do NOT go to the ceiling--we have an outlet up there along with dimmable lighting. I put greens and twinkle lights up for winter, red twinkles for Feb--I make it festive! When I am not adding anything, it just has nice uplighting!
We moved our fridge and microwave outside under our roof-covered patio. ( Make sure to use the right amperage cord to plug your appliances in!!) That along with the grill, completed our outdoor kitchen for a 6 week period.
Wish I had pictures to send! Have fun!
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Tile is very hard on your legs and back.
:-/ :-?
You're suppose to walk on it, not roll around. ;)
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;D
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Likely linoleum, as it is a "greener" choice.
Maybe you could put some sod down. Nothing is greener than that. ;)
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"Likely linoleum, as it is a "greener" choice."
I was curious about this, (isn't linoleum a vinly product? how could it be greener than wood or stone??)
Huh....the more you know:
From Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linoleum
Linoleum is a floor covering made from solidified linseed oil (linoxyn) in combination with wood flour or cork dust over a burlap or canvas backing. Pigments may be added to the materials used. In modern lay parlance, linoleum is often incorrectly used to describe vinyl flooring
HOWEVER.....
Linoleum as a floor covering has been largely replaced with polyvinyl chloride, which has similar properties of flexibility and durability, but which has greater brightness and translucency and which is relatively less flammable. Like all vinyl products, the combustion products are highly toxic and the normal outgassing products of vinyl are considered by some to be the cause of various health problems[citation needed] and may also be either causes or irritants in cases of multiple chemical sensitivity
BUT you can still find the "real stuff":
Because it is made of organic materials and is purportedly non-allergenic in nature, high quality linoleum is still in use in many places (especially in non-allergenic homes, hospitals and health care facilities). The design and inlaying of various colors to form patterns reflecting the shape and use of a room is a highly respected craft.
And here I thought I wouldn't learn a darn thing today. ;)
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I am always glad to contribute to anyone's "green" education!!!!
http://www.themarmoleumstore.com/framework/DesktopDefault.aspx?menu_id=29&old_menu_id=29&ssm=1
http://www.greensacramento.com/flooring_rugs.html