Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: bwbski22 on March 18, 2006, 05:20:44 pm
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im pretty sure they used to. do they still? if they do which is there top of the line brand? thanks again,
Brad
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I'm not sure who owns who, to be honest. I would imagine that Jacuzzi owns Sundance.
Terminator
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Its complicated. Jacuzzi owns Sundance but Sundance makes Jacuzzi's.
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That reminds me of when I was looking around the State Fair of Texas and the salesboy for Rec Warehouse told me that Caldera bought out HotSpring. I just said "Wow! I didn't know that."
The Illuminati owns all the spa companies anyway.
TerminatorJohn Doh!
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Yes. A few years back the company that owns Jacuzzi, purchased Sundance Spas. That is a plus for Jacuzzi. It became a better product after that transaction. Jacuzzi, was laying back and was not an exciting spa the last years leading up to the aquisition. After the purchase, the Sundance engineers, started adding new designs, technology and Sundance type features. The two companies compliment each other, as Jacuzzi brought good stuff to the table too. Dave.
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June of 98 Jacuzzi Brands Inc purchased Sundance spas. Jacuzzi Brands accuired a state of the art production facility to build both sundance and Jacuzzi Premium Spas. To say that Sundance Builds Jacuzzi is like saying that Mercury builds Fords. I'm sure thats what some Sundance reps would like to say, But it's not true. The truth is that both Jacuzzi and Sundance are built on the same assembly line in the former Sundance plant that is now the Jacuzzi Plant.
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June of 98 Jacuzzi Brands Inc purchased Sundance spas. Jacuzzi Brands accuired a state of the art production facility to build both sundance and Jacuzzi Premium Spas. To say that Sundance Builds Jacuzzi is like saying that Mercury builds Fords. I'm sure thats what some Sundance reps would like to say, But it's not true. The truth is that both Jacuzzi and Sundance are built on the same assembly line in the former Sundance plant that is now the Jacuzzi Plant.
Incorrect. It is true that Jacuzzi Brands purchased Sundance in 98, but Sundance was and is a wholly owned company. Sundance was to retain their own identity, their own management team and was to take over all the spa manufacturing for Jacuzzi. Jacuzzi Whirlpool spas were manufactured for a couple of more years unitl Sundance closed them down and created (yes Sundance created) Jacuzzi Premium Spas with many of the parts and features of Sundance spas. They also moved the manufacturing of Jacuzzi Premium to their own plant. Top of the line Sundance spas will always have the newest engineering and best bells and whistles while JP and the lower tier SD spas will lag behind.
Jacuzzi, the comglomerate, bought Sundance....but Sundance, the company, builds Jacuzzi. Much different than Mercury building Fords.
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Tony, I'm sure that is what your sundance rep tells you. If that is the case then why is the new and updated version of the optima now showing a Jacuzzi Logo...I'm sure you saw the J-470 at the aqua show. The same enginierrs that design Jacuzzi and Sundance were at the show explaining how the new J-470 had all the "newest and most state of the art" features. All the sundance Reps were upset to see the new waterfall on the jacuzzi when they thought they were getting those in 07. And why is the pan bottom only on the Jacuzzi brand while sundance frames still have the same wood bottom structure that the J-200 series has (u remember the lower line) And finaly the flagship of the Jacuzzi Brands (including Sundance) has a Jacuzzi logo on it
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Tony, I'm sure that is what your sundance rep tells you. If that is the case then why is the new and updated version of the optima now showing a Jacuzzi Logo...I'm sure you saw the J-470 at the aqua show. The same enginierrs that design Jacuzzi and Sundance were at the show explaining how the new J-470 had all the "newest and most state of the art" features. All the sundance Reps were upset to see the new waterfall on the jacuzzi when they thought they were getting those in 07. And why is the pan bottom only on the Jacuzzi brand while sundance frames still have the same wood bottom structure that the J-200 series has (u remember the lower line) And finaly the flagship of the Jacuzzi Brands (including Sundance) has a Jacuzzi logo on it
The engineers that design the SD spas are the same that design the JP spas. Sundance is owned by Jacuzzi Brands and should carry the logo like all Jacuzzi products. The new JP 400 series spas have all the newest technoloy, but the SD 880 series has had that for over a year now...the 56 frame pumps, the high flow circ pump with waterfalls, the new filtration. It looks like the JP spas also are now sporting the SD bearingless jets. JP spas have always had the plastic pan bottom as a holdover from the old Jacuzzi Whirlpool days while the SD spas have a hard plastic sheet across the bottom.
I do believe that as the original owners of SD start to exit out of the company the lines will blur somewhat, just like all business deals. Then they will all be Sundance Spas by Jacuzzi. ;D
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so what u guys are saying is the new JPS J400 series are the new top of the line from both jacuzzi and sundance engineers? but i still feel that the j385 has more interior room then either the J480 or the J470? right or wrong?
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No, I don’t think anyone is stating the 400 series is the top of the line from both Jacuzzi and Sundance. I would recommend you to read the complete manufacturers warranty for both brands (make sure you read the details) and decide which one has a better warranty.
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Regardless of who makes what, the Jacuzzi line has its own dealer network while Pool City sells Sundance. Considering the quality of employee (part time high school kids with pierced eyebrows and spiked collars who answered my questions reading from a notebook) at the local Pool City, you might be better off buying on eBay.
I looked at Sundance before I bought as Jauczzi and was totally unimpressed with the product, the sales staff and support system.
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That can be said about any spa brand, and really has nothing to do with the Jacuzzi/Sundance ownership issue.
I'm sure that both brands have dealers ranging in quality from awsome to totally crappy. Has absolutely nothing to do with the manufacturers.
The Jacuzzi dealer just up the road from my office here had a not so good reputation for poor quailty customer service, and they boarded up the place a couple years ago. Doesn't have any bearing on the relative quality of Jacuzzi spas to anyone elses, just a shoddily run business.
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Brewman,
The point I was making was that Jacuzzi has a stand alone store that sells only spas. They have to do it right. http://www.spashowcase.com/
But I have never seen a Sundance store. The Sundance spas get what ever room Pool City has left over. And it is doubtful that Pool City will care about your tub very much when their showroom is filled with Christmas trees or above ground pools. The Sundance spas were relegated to the far corner of the room. The sales person couldn't even be bothered enough to learn about them.
You are right in that it could be different elsewhere. This is how it is in my neck of the woods. No matter how good the spa, a bad dealer will kill the sale everytime.
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Incorrect, The dealership I work for has 3 stores. One is Jacuzzi, the one I manage, another is Sundance, the 3rd will remain nameless. None the less, this week after selling 5 J-470's among other models at the Indiana Flower and Patio Show, we needed to get the dinensions and specifications of the 470 for our customers that are doing "built in" instalations. My long history with Jacuzzi I told the owner not to worry I'll handle it, his long history with Sundance he decided to handle it. He soon found out that he could get ZERO information from the sundance engineering department regarding Jacuzzi spas. He had to call the Jacuzzi engineering, which is completly seperate from the Sundance side. I very seriously doubt the most recognizable name in the industry will ever sucumb the sundance.
The engineers that design the SD spas are the same that design the JP spas.
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just to put my 2 cents in
Since Jacuzzi has move their operations back to Cali from Texas most of the higher ups in tech & R&D from Sundance have been brought over to the Jacuzzi side of things to make a better product & bring up overall sales. Next year the sundance circ pump will be put into the Jacuzzi line. For the next few years most of the better ideas will be implemented on the Jacuzzi side of things & once they achieve the market share they have projected, all the new ideas will be split and divided according to previous year sales. It is more than likely that SD will be streamlined a bit my a few tubs going by the way side.
This was told to me by 3 R&D guys over drinks who are pulling double duty for Jacuzzi & Sundance in Cali
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Nothing like he said she said to clear things up.
just to put my 2 cents in
Since Jacuzzi has move their operations back to Cali from Texas most of the higher ups in tech & R&D from Sundance have been brought over to the Jacuzzi side of things to make a better product & bring up overall sales. Next year the sundance circ pump will be put into the Jacuzzi line. For the next few years most of the better ideas will be implemented on the Jacuzzi side of things & once they achieve the market share they have projected, all the new ideas will be split and divided according to previous year sales. It is more than likely that SD will be streamlined a bit my a few tubs going by the way side.
This was told to me by 3 R&D guys over drinks who are pulling double duty for Jacuzzi & Sundance in Cali
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I very seriously doubt the most recognizable name in the industry will ever sucumb the sundance.
That's my point. As all the original owners of Sundance cash out, they'll all become Jacuzzis, the most recognizable name in the industry.
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Posted by: Wisoki Posted on: Today at 4:25pm
Nothing like he said she said to clear things up.
I will let you call me a liar when the 07 Jacuzzi's dont have the same circ pump as a sundance and becausec I fabricated the whole thing ::)
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I think Corporate has to dance quite a bit to make each feel like they're top dog.
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I think Corporate has to dance quite a bit to make each feel like they're top dog.
Normally they just lift their leg on the underlings and that settles it..... ::) ;)
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Sorry if you feel I called you a liar, I didn't, but if you feel that way.... As for the circ pump thing, everything in the Jacuzzi 400 series uses the 35 GPM circulation pump, and every thing in the Sundance 880 series used that same pump. Both brands for the better part of the last decade have been using the laing circ pump on all their spas, it is neither Jacuzzi nor Sundance, it is the same circ pump virtualy EVERY spa manufacturer uses except the ones that use grundfos. Neither Jacuzzi nor Sundance is "developing" a circulation pump.
Posted by: Wisoki Posted on: Today at 4:25pm
Nothing like he said she said to clear things up.
I will let you call me a liar when the 07 Jacuzzi's dont have the same circ pump as a sundance and becausec I fabricated the whole thing ::)
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This has nothing to do with who owns whom...but I do find it interesting that the Jacuzzi brand seems to be getting a lot of positive play on this board lately.
When I was looking for input on the J385 there was hardly anything positive being said about Jacuzzi. I will say I was influenced by the lack of positivity. Then Duffman comes along and does his in-depth study and ends up buying a J385. Maybe that's it...because of Duffman...Jacuzzi is getting more attention.
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Then Duffman comes along and does his in-depth study and ends up buying a J385. Maybe that's it...because of Duffman...Jacuzzi is getting more attention.
The things we should take away from Duffman's experience are A) he should be commended for the time he put in and B) he liked the Jacuzzi best. The real influence his story should have had is that each individual needs to do his/her own research to find out for him/herself what is best as we all know 5 people can test out 5 premium spas and ALL come to vastly differing conclusions.
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Spatech...I absolutely agree. I did a ton of research and wet tested many hot-tubs. There were 2-3 I liked equally. I think when that happens is where this forum comes in and has an influence. It could be negative it could be positive. It's how one interprets the information.
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Spatech...I absolutely agree. I did a ton of research and wet tested many hot-tubs. There were 2-3 I liked equally. I think when that happens is where this forum comes in and has an influence. It could be negative it could be positive. It's how one interprets the information.
Exactly and if you wet test that same Jacuzzi and it doesn't feel/fit right for whatever reason you wouldn't say "geez, but Duffman liked it, I'm surprised". If Duffman had an identical twin we shouldn't expect that person to have arrived at the same conclusion, even if he/she were conjoined. ;)
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Just to clear something up that tony said in an earlier post. the J400 series and the sundance 880 series do not share the same filtration. they do share the same circ pump and they both have a 10 micron, microban impregnated filter but the J400 hundred still uses a vertical filter set up and also a true bottom suction filter that sucks from the floor and empty' into a 10 micron replaceable filter bag.
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Just to clear something up that tony said in an earlier post. the J400 series and the sundance 880 series do not share the same filtration. they do share the same circ pump and they both have a 10 micron, microban impregnated filter but the J400 hundred still uses a vertical filter set up and also a true bottom suction filter that sucks from the floor and empty' into a 10 micron replaceable filter bag.
Sorry I mislead. You are correct, SD and JP use different filtering techniques...both seem to have retained their original styles. I was referring more to the fact that JP has moved to the mini micron filtering that SD introduced in their spas last year (I believe it is 5 micron, not 10).
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according to jacuzzi brass at the aqua show I was told 10 micron. could be wrong, but that's what I was told.
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I talked with Duffman, about his report. I ask him about SD. He stated, that it was too far for him to drive to consider. I was disappointed that he didn't test any SD tub. I didn't go as deep into my testing as Duffman but I did test both JP and SD. Clearly the SD had a top notch cir. pump as filtration, lights, waterfalls and size. I wanted a big tub. In this area, SD has a beautiful showroom. And JP has a small three tub showroom, mixed with other lower classed tubs. Bottom line is you should always buy whats good for you. When I went in to the JP store to buy chemicals and was ask if I had bought yet. I told them and they were very polite and said good choice.
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as you stated that's in your area. each showroom is different and independently operated. we have eleven jacuzzi models on the floor as do many other jp dealers if not more. may I ask why you don't go to your dealer for chemicals? too far to drive, higher prices?
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Thats correct, My dealer is 70 miles away. :-/ So I buy chemicals locally. My son bought a tub from the Jacuzzi shop. They treat him well.
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glen distance is not an issue with me and my jacuzzi deasler, he is the only local spa dealer. and i have a great relationship with him. so im not quite sure what ur trying to say, thanks for your timely response glen.
Brad
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Apparently the local Pool City is having a factory sale on Sundance spas.
The TV ad claims they are "the #1 manfacturer of spas" and that there will be "factory reps" at the store offering discounts up to $3,000.
It must be time to move the stock so they can make room to set the above ground pools up.
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I'll tell ya', when I see a tv ad that says were NOT number on, I just run on out and give my money to them! ::) Advertizing, must be clear and have a call to action. Factory reps? I'd ask to be introduced to them and get a business card. There is one rep per region and a region in most parts of the country consists of 3 or 4 states. To pull reps from their own areas to promote a single retail outlet....in 15 years I've not seen it done. More power to them though, if it drives people into the store.
Apparently the local Pool City is having a factory sale on Sundance spas.
The TV ad claims they are "the #1 manfacturer of spas" and that there will be "factory reps" at the store offering discounts up to $3,000.
It must be time to move the stock so they can make room to set the above ground pools up.
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Apparently the local Pool City is having a factory sale on Sundance spas.
The TV ad claims they are "the #1 manfacturer of spas" and that there will be "factory reps" at the store offering discounts up to $3,000.
It must be time to move the stock so they can make room to set the above ground pools up.
It sounds to me like a Hot Spring sale. You know, the whole number one manufacturer thing.
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It sounds to me like a Hot Spring sale. You know, the whole number one manufacturer thing.
Who's #1? Who owns whom? Who has the flagship spa? We need a scorecard!