Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Chas on May 14, 2006, 11:01:17 am
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Spa owners, spa dealers, soakers, sulkers, lovers and lurkers: Lend me your eyes.
What are the most common chemical mistakes which newbies make? Let's list a bunch to try to make the transition to relaxing just that much easier for our new friends. Learn from other's little mistakes.
I have these to share right off the top:
- Ozone doesn't replace sanitizers. You will still need to have some chlorine or bromine in your water, unless you want a skin problem. Yes, even if you have a Nature2 cartidge, spa frog and/or MPS. You will need much LESS chlorine than non-ozoners.
- Don't retest for pH and TA within four hours of adding increasers or decreasers. The pH will plummet, then raise before finally settling at it's new level.
- You can't get a good pH/TA reading off of test strips if the sanitizer level is above about 5ppm.
- Rinse suits before using them in a spa. Laundry soap stays in them, so most experienced spa owners don't launder them anymore, or if they do they rinse them well prior to use in the spa.
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The "TEENAGER FACTOR."
The teenagers come home from school with their buddies, hammer on the new hot tub, don't put the dichlor in when they're done and PRESTO. Mom and Dad go to use the spa that night and it's cloudy. The teenagers don't fess up.
This is part of our orientation to new spa owners with teenagers.
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What is in your skin pores will be in your water, oils, lotions, sunblock, perspiration, etc. When you are in the water, your skin pores open and you emit into the spa water. You will see the results in cloudy water. It is not an operational fault of the Hot Tub.
It is recommended that only clean bodies enter the Hot Tub because only clean bodies get out. ;D
If you have just finished a physical work out, or have been out jogging, or even just finished cutting the lawn, you worked up a sweat, you should cleanse your body in a shower before cleansing it in the Hot Tub.
If you just showered and you lay in your tanning bed, shower again, what is below the surface of your skin after cooking it under UV lights will result in cloudy water. :(
It is not a good idea to to allow Hot Tub users to cleanse their hair in the Hot Tub. YOU will have to deal with the results, hair spray, gels, conditioners etc. >:(
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"I clean the filter all the time"- cleaning the filter means cleaning it with a cleaning product (like filter clean or the dishwasher)
Rinsing it off with a high pressure hose is great, but you have to clean the filter with a cleaner..... People always say that they clean their filter all the time, but usually that consists of rinsing it off with a high pressure hose and they don't use a cleaning agent......
Also on that note, customers use way to much foam down to try and cover up their foam problem instead of cleaning the filter with a proper cleaner. Foam down maks the problem and if you use too much of it, it will end up making the water cloudy. You really should only use foam down when you're too lazy to clean the filter and when you use it, you should only use a few drops at a time. Don't go crazy with it.
Also, when you use a cleaning agent on the filter, make sure you rinse it off completely, when the suds disappear, wash it for a few more minutes just to make sure that all the cleaner is gone, otherwise you can have a major foam problem.
Keeping your filters clean is a big part of keeping you water in good shape, and keeping good jet pressure.
We recommend that you clean the filter with a filter cleaner (like the instant cartridge cleaner or dishwasher) once a month, then do a deep clean where you soak the filter for a few hours (using a product like filter clean) every 4 months. If you do that, your filters will last many years and you're water will be a lot easier to take care of......
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"I clean the filter all the time"- cleaning the filter means cleaning it with a cleaning product (like filter clean or the dishwasher)
Rinsing it off with a high pressure hose is great, but you have to clean the filter with a cleaner..... People always say that they clean their filter all the time, but usually that consists of rinsing it off with a high pressure hose and they don't use a cleaning agent......
Keeping your filters clean is a big part of keeping you water in good shape, and keeping good jet pressure.
We recommend that you clean the filter with a filter cleaner (like the instant cartridge cleaner or dishwasher) once a month, then do a deep clean where you soak the filter for a few hours (using a product like filter clean) every 4 months. If you do that, your filters will last many years and you're water will be a lot easier to take care of......
Question for you....We recommend using the Sea Klear clarifier and one reason is that you can rinse the filters as most things 'lay" on the filters instead of embedding into them, this allows you to rinse every few weeks and you can do an through cleaning at water changes. What are your thoughts....
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I never used the Sea Klear cleaner, but I know that when customers bring their filters in and they tell me that they've rinsed them off or cleaned them even with the LT Instant Cartridge Cleaner, if I look inside the filter (flip it upside down) I can usually see buildup in the holes and that does two things
1. if they are using bromine or chlorine, people complain a lot that when they turn on the spa initially they get a strong "whiff" of chemicals, usually because of buildup inside
2. it can also restrict water flow and thus jet pressure. I don't know maybe I'm wrong or overkill, but I know that when someone has a water related problem with the spa, and I tell them to drain their spa and soak the filter, that solves the problem almost every time.
Also you say yourself that "most things lay on the filter" that is true, but the key word is "most". I guess it depends on how much you change your filter, I find if people clean it regularly when they drain the spa, the filter lasts about 3 years. But then again we only use one filter so it's not as big of a deal to clean one filter all the time......
In my humble opinion I just don't think rinsing it off is enough. That's another reason why I'm not a big fan of the dishwasher, but that's just me.
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I see a lot of folks using ALL the chems the dealer sold them all at once.
"Hmmm. Time to do the tub. Add some dichlor..a bit of shock. adjust TA. Opps a bit of foam over there better get the foam down, ok now a spash of defender for good measure, oops the water looks like it could be clearer, better add a shot of claifierfier...some enzxymes for good measure. a pinch of shock...." Pretty soon the tub looks like stew. ;)
Not that I EVER did anything like that. ::)
Sanitize and walk away. Adress foam, and PH on other days.
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Thanks for the reminder Drew:
Never add "Bright and Clear" and "Defender" on the same day.
In fact, add Metal Gon on a different day as well.
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This is not very common (thank goodness) but I have seen it happen more than it should:
When you purchase a new spa and it is delivered to your home and the delivery person shows you how to treat the water, THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS PERMANENTLY TREATED. You have to continue to treat it YOURSELF on a daily or weekly basis.
The worst one was when a customer called us 5 years after we delivered his spa because the heater did not work. When our tech arrived, the spa had green algae coating the entire interior of the spa. Our tech asked when was the last time he treated the water.
"Oh, you guys treated it when you delivered it."
Some people have NO business owning a spa. They'd be better off with a pond.
Terminator
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This is not very common (thank goodness) but I have seen it happen more than it should:
When you purchase a new spa and it is delivered to your home and the delivery person shows you how to treat the water, THAT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS PERMANENTLY TREATED. You have to continue to treat it YOURSELF on a daily or weekly basis.
The worst one was when a customer called us 5 years after we delivered his spa because the heater did not work. When our tech arrived, the spa had green algae coating the entire interior of the spa. Our tech asked when was the last time he treated the water.
"Oh, you guys treated it when you delivered it."
Some people have NO business owning a spa. They'd be better off with a pond.
Terminator
Enter Wisoki with snide no-bypass filtration comment... ;D
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Perhaps the most often neglected detail is to know your raw water before commencing with chemical additions. It is best to test the water first and then work up an initial treatment schedule of chemical additions that would be used every time the tub is refilled. Especially for people filling from a well, the initial step might be to prefilter the water.
Another common problem is worrying too much. This results in micro managing the water and consequently adding too much stuff. This is especially true in the first few weeks of ownership. Use Chas's first law of water treatment: Dump the tub after the first 30 days.
Finally, I would like to make a plug for Bill's second law of water treatment: When in doubt dump the water. If the water is cloudy, foaming, or otherwise sullied and a simple shock does not solve the problem, adding more chems often just makes things worse. There is one sure fire solution for every water problem, fresh water.
Regards,
Bill
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Chas-
I try to tell people not to use Bright and Clear if they have an ozone, I find that it's just too much of hassle for them to clean out all that sticky yellow stuff, and that if they do it with regularity it will gum up the filters. I tell them that if they have a major foam problem to use the bright and clear then and clean the filter, but that it is more of an "emergency" thing than a standard thing. I've found that if they use bright and clear all the time it causes more problems than it's worth, buy only if they have an ozone. Do you disagree?
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Chas- Do you disagree?
Yes, I do not disagree.
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So what's the deal with Bright and Clear and Ozone? Are they bad together? What if the ozone is not running while the B&C is doing is gooey thing? Not sure how I'd pull that off, though....
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1) Stain & Scale and shock at the same time.
Orange water.
2) Water Clarifier any and all times the tub is cloudy (for this reason I rarely sell clarifier if I can help it).
3) Cross-over of pool and spa line chems with customers who buy both pools and hot tubs. I don't know how many times people have come in for more Anti Foam after putting Polysheen Blue into their hot tub.
Likewise I've also had someone put Cal Hypo in their hot tub and put chlorine tablets in their bromine floater. The latter is one of the most dangerous things they can do.
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To clarify the clarifier issue:
Bright and Clear or other clarifiers generally have labels printed with directions telling the consumer to add a dose two times a week. That will offer your dealer's with great options of colleges to send their kids, but I don't recommend following those instructions.
Overdoing the B&C can really load up the filters and waterline with gunk, more so in a spa with a good ozone system.
Save the clarifier for rare, occasional use, and be ready to wipe down the wateline as it does it's job and pulls gunk out of the water. You may even need to clean the filters if the water was heavily oiled.
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The other issue we've seen here is people adding the wrong ammounts. ::) Too much dichlor or PH up.
Read the label. KNow the dosage.
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To clarify the clarifier issue:
Bright and Clear or other clarifiers generally have labels printed with directions telling the consumer to add a dose two times a week. That will offer your dealer's with great options of colleges to send their kids, but I don't recommend following those instructions.
Overdoing the B&C can really load up the filters and waterline with gunk, more so in a spa with a good ozone system.
Save the clarifier for rare, occasional use, and be ready to wipe down the wateline as it does it's job and pulls gunk out of the water. You may even need to clean the filters if the water was heavily oiled.
That's what I thought as well....
In general you want to use the least amount of chemicals to keep your spa sanitized. The more stuff you put in there, the more you spend and the harder it becomes to take care of the water. The chemicals don't disappear they just dissapate into the water so if you think of it this way, when you first fill the tub it 100% water, then by month one it's say 99% water, then by month 4 it could be 90% water and that's why we tell people to drain the spa, you keep adding chemicals to the spa and it becomes harder and harder to take care of the water the longer you stay with the same batch up of the tub.
In general all you need it your sanitizer, some shock, stain and scale control and adjust PH as needed. There are other times when you might use Bright and Clear, or PH blanace or Enzyme but in general you are just using your main things every week. and if you get behind a little dichlor every now and then never hurts....
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To quote the Good Doctor Spa,
"Water is the cheapest chemical you can add to your tub" 8)
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Thanks for the clarifier clarifier. ;) I definitely over used it in my first month (it worked!) but now I just keep it on hand for emergency use. So far no need.
If it will gunk up my filter, and the majority of the gunk goes to the surface, then would this be a way to use it- Add small amount, use the venturi bubbler to agitate the water to mix it all in, than skim the top without running the filter? Or is that just a weird idea?
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I am not sure how much Bright and clear costs. but Sea Klear gets used 1 ounce once a week or about 3 bottles per year.....Not enough to put your kid though college but just maybe a bus ride or two.... ;)
SeaKlear® Natural Clarifier got its name because it was originally used by the U.S. Navy to clear seawater for underwater photography. Environmentally safe, non-toxic, and biodegradable, Natural Clarifier contains a natural ingredient, chitosan,that attracts organic debris that causes cloudiness in pool and spa/hot tub water. A floc or mass of organic material is formed and carried to the filter where it is more easily removed.
Each week, treat your water with Natural Clarifier specially formulated for pools or spas/hot tubs to improve water quality and clarity. With Natural Clarifier for Spas, use 1 ounce per 500 gallons of water, and with Natural Clarifier for Pools use 1 ounce per 5000 gallons of water.
Removes Excess Oil
Unlike other clarifiers, SeaKlear Natural Clarifier actually removes oils from the water. This unique patented technology works with any pool, spa, or hot tub system. Oils can be introduced when sunscreens, lotions or cosmetics are left behind in the water. Natural Clarifier works to encapsulate the oil molecules and holds them in suspension so the oil doesn't stick to pool and spa surfaces or filters. When filters are cleaned the oil is removed in the effluent. The filter stays cleaner and lasts longer.
Removes Stain-Causing Metals
The unique molecular shape and electrical charge of SeaKlear Natural Clarifier allow it to entrap and aggregate heavy metal particles, including manganese, copper and iron, that have already combined with microorganisms or algae spores. Therefore Natural Clarifier does not interfere with metal ions from ionizers and mineral-based purifiers. In fact, Natural Clarifier enhances these systems by removing the non-essential stain-causing metals. One gallon of Natural Clarifier formulated for pools removes 1 part per million (ppm) of metal in 20,000 gallons of water.
Improves Filtration
Because the Natural Clarifier polymer is a loose net molecule, it actually forms a subsurface over filters that helps remove organic debris and hold it above the filter media. Filters stay cleaner and work more efficiently.
A Natural Compatible Formula
SeaKlear Natural Clarifier is compatible with all sanitizing systems including: Ozone, Ionization, and Biguanide, and either Bromine or Chlorine systems. The main ingredient in Natural Clarifier is chitosan, a safe non-toxic fiber similar to cellulose that grabs suspended particles and removes them from the water.
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The other issue we've seen here is people adding the wrong ammounts. ::) Too much dichlor or PH up.
Read the label. KNow the dosage.
Hey, you can NEVER use too much dichlor! ;D
And, I use Sea Klear on a weekly basis - 1 oz per week.
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To quote the Good Doctor Spa,
"Water is the cheapest chemical you can add to your tub" 8)
With all due respect, I do believe that quote should be attributed to The Chas.
8)
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The other issue we've seen here is people adding the wrong ammounts. ::) Too much dichlor or PH up. Read the label. KNow the dosage.
Yes yes yes !!
For the best results, get a stinkin' MEASURING CUP !
You will really save yourself time and aggravation - a three ounce plastic measuring cup is about right. Baqua dealers should all have them on the shelf.
(http://www.qosmedix.com/catalog/parts/29288.gif)
Doubles as a sample cup....
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With all due respect, I do believe that quote should be attributed to The Chas.
8)
mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Folks, it was "The Chas" (it's "the chas" now? oh brother ::) ) who uttered the unforgetable words. "Water is the cheapest chemical you can add to your tub".
I belive it was also Chas...excuse me "The Chas" who said.
"always drink upstream of the heard".
;D
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;)
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Improves Filtration
Because the Natural Clarifier polymer is a loose net molecule, it actually forms a subsurface over filters that helps remove organic debris and hold it above the filter media. Filters stay cleaner and work more efficiently.
Like diatomaceous earth?