Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Stemay on May 02, 2006, 04:47:22 am
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I know that hydrotherapy is contraindicated for some people, but I honestly don't know exactly who SHOULDN'T go in the water. When you get your spa, do they list some health conditions that people may have who should avoid using the spa?
How do all of you handle this issue with friends or relatives who may not know that it's not a good idea for them to go in? I'm likely not going to have a sign posted that reads "If you suffer from this, that and the other condition, please refrain from going into the spa."
Thanks!
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we say, "if there's ever a question, check with your doctor."
As far as friends and relatives, for mother's-in-law's: the spa is always a steemy 106 degrees, friends: my spa's too small for a party and right off my bedroom, so it'd have to be an "approved" friend as far as my wife is concerned.
Small children 5 years and under should not be in spa when water is over body temperature.
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I think my spa owner's manual has some really generic guidelines. I'm of the opinion that we all have to be responsible for ourselves. You want to use my spa, you need to find out for yourself if you should or not. I'm not a doctor, or babysitter, just a doofus with a spa.
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The restrictions I've heard is that hot water can relax the blood vessels and folks with high, (and we just learned a few weeks ago in here) folks with very low blood pressure need to talk to a doctor before using a spa. The temperature change can greatly effect folks with BP issues.
I've heard that pregnant women should avoid the hot tub (high temps).
Infants and very young children are also warned not to be exposed to too high temps or for too long.
Your owners manual should outline the risks.
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Small children 5 years and under should not be in spa when water is over body temperature.
Why? And, please, don't just say because the CPSC says so. How about some data that will show why my 4 and 5 year old nephews shouldn't stay in my tub the 2+ hours they usually do at 104+ ??
Seriously...
Drewski
8)
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Why? And, please, don't just say because the CPSC says so. How about some data that will show why my 4 and 5 year old nephews shouldn't stay in my tub the 2+ hours they usually do at 104+ ??
Seriously...
Drewski
8)
I belive its due to body size and mass. Typically the size of a child 5 years old and younger can overheat rapidly.
Why 5 and not 4 or 6? I dunno.
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I belive its due to body size and mass. Typically the size of a child 5 years old and younger can overheat rapidly.
Yep, I'd agree with you, when they FIRST start out. I was REAL careful with them when they first started using the tub, but after about 2 months, they no longer got "overheated" when they got in. In fact, one time someone had turned down the temp to 100 and the 5 year old said "Uncle Drew, it's too COLD! Make it hotter!" That same 5 year old is a hot tub FANATIC by the way. He even learned how to swim in my tub, if you can beleive that. He's the kid in the other thread smiling at the camera...
Drewski
8)
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I also read that seriously overweight people should avoid hot tubs.
Try explaining that one to your overweight friends if they want to go in!
Astrid.
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I have a couple of fat friends that got in the spa one time. They looked like a couple of donuts in hot oil the way they were rolling around.
Terminator
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My 2 and 6 year old use the tub regularly with no ill effects. The tub is normally set for 101, but if we know they are going to go in I will open the top and try to lower it to 99-100 first, but often times things are spontaneous and they get 101. We stay in about 45 minutes, drink cold beverages, and have them sit on the edge for 2 minutes every 10 or so. Doesn't seem to be an issue.
My 6 year old also swims in the tub and plays limbo... which is where he swims underwater under my stretched out legs. They love love love the tub and would use it nightly if we let them.
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My son got in one of our floor model spas when he was just a wee lad. No pun intended. I think he was around five years old.
Somebody had set the temp up to 105 ish. He kept saying it felt warm, but we didn't figure out what was going on. That night he had a fever, and flu-like symptoms. We had to take him to the doc the next morning, and he lit into us when we told him that the only thing out of the ordinary our little guy had been exposed to was an extra-hot tub.
He said that up to the age of around 10 or 12 kids just don't have the heat-regulation power of an older person. He told us that tubs should never be set over 104 unless we wanted to kill brain cells. His explanation was basically that if a person has a fever of 101 they can rest and drink fluids. But if that fever climbs to 104 or above, they should be in a hospital.
So - we have kept our tubs below 104 ever since. Also - just as a side note, I have cared for many commercial spas over the years. The Health Inspectors always shut me down if they found the tub was 104 or above. If there was a filler and an overflow, they would turn on the filler and if the tub was below 104 by the time they were ready to leave they would not red-tag it and kick everyone out. But if the heater kicked back in, or the thing just didn't cool fast enough, they would shut it down and the club owner would be on the phone right away.
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I kept my temp. lower after my kids started getting in the tub with me, 100 degrees or so. Their body temps can rise very fast and they can get flushed and light headed during even a relatively short soak. To me it is just not worth taking chances. I have seen athletic, healthy adults become ill after soaking too long in 104 degree water. One key point for safety is staying hydrated, you don't realize how much you are sweating sitting in 104 degree water.
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I have teenage boys and they set the soak timer as soon as they get into the tub. We keep our tub at 101, (although I would like to lower it now with the warmer air temps). When my sister's small children came over, they followed my kids right out of the tub in 15 minutes.
We just said that is the rule, all kids out in 15 minutes.
I really don't want to risk a bad experience in the tub so in my mind, it is easier to just follow the guidelines. ;)
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So far, I agree with everything that's been said. BUT, here's a point. People make the mistake of thinking that just because the water temperature is 104, it MEANS that your body temperature goes to 104.
When you go swimming in the ocean (especially the Pacific) does your body temperature drop to 65? Do people on the streets in Phoenix during the summer have body temperatures of 110? Of course not!
My point is that provided you have a way of getting someone cool, namely through the head of the subject in cooler air, the body WILL stay at normal temp. In fact, I'll prove it. This weekend I'll do a little testing on my "crew." Stand by for data....
Drewski
:P
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He told us that tubs should never be set over 104 unless we wanted to kill brain cells.
Hot water kills brain cells? that's umpossible! Me be soaking in the hot water tub thingy all me life and I be with no problems.
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Keeping the head cool, is not going to help regulate the body's temperature. Logically, we sweat in an attempt to cool our bodies using evaporation and to maintain normal body temperature (why in a dry climate like Pheonix, you don't just cook at 110) You need to raise your heart out of the hot water to really allow your body to cool itself off. In the tub your sweat isn't evaporated so that defeats evaporative cooling.
Additionally children are not likely to realize that they are having an adverse effect to the high temp water.
To get realistic results with your experiment, Drewski, you will need to measure a core body temperature...maybe Anne (who is a medical person or one of the doctors on here) can tell you how to do that correctly.. I guess I can't get why you would want to risk it..and what you think the gain is to cook your kids (or relatives) at 104?
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I have found that most folks who claim to soak at higher temps are not using accurate methods to measure the water temp. This often shows up on a service call when I install a new thermostat or calibrate the old one. They come home, set it for 104 or better as they have forever, and then when they get into real hot water (for the first time) they find it to be very uncomfortable.
Yes, I have also found some folks who really like to soak in extra hot water. I still like to remind people that your body's 'cooling system' depends on evaporation and that isn't happening while immersed in water. So if you are a hot soaker, please be careful. At temps above 100 each degree makes a big difference.
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Keeping the head cool, is not going to help regulate the body's temperature. Logically, we sweat in an attempt to cool our bodies using evaporation and to maintain normal body temperature (why in a dry climate like Pheonix, you don't just cook at 110) You need to raise your heart out of the hot water to really allow your body to cool itself off. In the tub your sweat isn't evaporated so that defeats evaporative cooling.
Additionally children are not likely to realize that they are having an adverse effect to the high temp water.
To get realistic results with your experiment, Drewski, you will need to measure a core body temperature...maybe Anne (who is a medical person or one of the doctors on here) can tell you how to do that correctly.. I guess I can't get why you would want to risk it..and what you think the gain is to cook your kids (or relatives) at 104?
Bonibelle, I appreciate your response, BUT, a few things:
I was a "medical person" for 15 years, in fact I still hold certifications as a Paramedic, a Pediatric Advanced Life Support (PALS) Instructor and several other relevant tickets. I treated HUNDREDS of kids over that 15 years including many with hypothermia and hyperthermia and BELIEVE me when I say, I know the warning signs.
The kids in question were acclimated to higher temperatures, not just thrown in the tub and “cooked.” This means that the body systems which allow for heat management had time to develop and respond to the environment. This is the same mechanism that allows young children in sub-Sahara Africa to play outside in extreme temps, while kids from the USA used to 72 degree HVAC would probably fry.
Most kids who get in hot tubs don't SIT still like adults. They PLAY. This means they get up, move around, splash, etc. Their bodies have plenty of opportunity for both evaporative and radiant cooling, ESPECIALLY when it's cold out. When outside temps exceed 80 degrees, overheating becomes problematic and the pool is a better choice.
My kids, including the 4 year old, KNOW the warning signs of when to get out and follow them. Any time someone starts getting red in the face or sick to their stomach, they get out. The older kids often watch the younger kids for this, especially if a younger kid is new to the process. The kids also practice good fluid management because all of them love taking a big glass of ice water in the tub with them. They drink the water and then throw the ice at each other.
As far measuring core temperatures goes, NO, I won't use rectal temps to validate my experiment. That's going a little far. Let's start with oral temps first and see what we get.
Finally, I appreciated your post up to the point you said "I guess I can't get why you would want to risk it..and what you think the gain is to cook your kids (or relatives) at 104?" "Cooking" my kids is NOT something I do. I've had my tub coming up on 7 YEARS now (quite a bit longer than the 6 months you've had yours) with literally HUNDREDS of adults AND kids spending time in it. I can only think of 2 times when I've had guests with hyperthermia issues (both ADULTS) and in each case they didn't follow my advice. A cool shower and water fixed them both up.
So, in the future, please do me a favor. First, with your limited experience, consider what advice you give. And second, don't EVER make the suggestion that I abuse my children.
Drewski
>:(
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I won't use rectal temps to validate my experiment. That's going a little far.
I'd just like to say that I recently found out the difference between a rectal and oral thermemeter.
The taste.
sorry.
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I'd just like to say that I recently found out the difference between a rectal and oral thermemeter.
The taste.
sorry.
:o :o :o ;D ;D ;D
You kill me bro....
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I was informed it could adversly affect the development of reproductive organs in boys and girls. My nieces use the spa all the time, but I never let the temp go over 100 for them. They'll have plenty of time to use hottubs at higher temps when they get into college, for now, I'd rather not take the risk.
Why? And, please, don't just say because the CPSC says so. How about some data that will show why my 4 and 5 year old nephews shouldn't stay in my tub the 2+ hours they usually do at 104+ ??
Seriously...
Drewski
8)
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Drewski, first I am sorry if I touched a nerve, I didn't really mean to upset you. I am, as you say, inexperienced and that is why I reacted to your post the way that I did. You have a medical background and say you are careful to watch for signs of hyperthermia in the small children. You say that is is fine for them to be in the tub for 2 hours at 104. I would be concerned that other inexperienced folks reading the forum would follow your lead. Maybe they are not medics, or doctors and maybe they don't know to look for the signs of overheating. Chas sites first hand experience with overheating from a hot tub, (I would consider him VERY experienced). Others quote safety guidelines. When it comes to safety, I quess I an a stickler for following the rules.(especially when the subjects involved are not old enough to make educated decisions). You obviously are free to do what ever you please with your own children.
With all due respect, I am just wondering why 100 or 101 isn't as much fun to a child as 104?
Wisoki, that is exactly the reason that my teenagers are out in 15...I have the same information about developmental reproductive problems. Why risk it?
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don't EVER make the suggestion that I abuse my children.
Drewski
>:(
Drew, I don't think that was intended.
;)
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Drew, I don't think that was intended. ;)
Intended or not Bro - it was said:
I guess I can't get why you would want to risk it..and what you think the gain is to cook your kids (or relatives) at 104?
Nevertheless, her last post made up for it graciously and I respect that. It's over.
You know me, I never stay mad long...
:P
In any case, I showed this Blog to the "owners" of some of these kids and they actually laughed. I'll update soon....
Drewski
8)
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We live in a sub-division that has a community spa. They post that anyone under 18 isn't allowed (period). I've always wondered why, now I know. Thanks to all of you.
We are looking into getting our own spa, btw.
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With all due respect, I am just wondering why 100 or 101 isn't as much fun to a child as 104?
I am assuming it's for the same reasons that 100 to 101 isn't as fun for an adult. Some people just like water hotter than others.
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Why? And, please, don't just say because the CPSC says so. How about some data that will show why my 4 and 5 year old nephews shouldn't stay in my tub the 2+ hours they usually do at 104+ ??
Seriously...
Drewski
8)
I have to think a kid is in and out and not sitting still for 2 hours. But younger thinner kids can overheat faster and not be as quick to recognize something is wrong.
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I have to think a kid is in and out and not sitting still for 2 hours. But younger thinner kids can overheat faster and not be as quick to recognize something is wrong.
I think it's because kids don't care and pay a lot less attention to thier physical conformt than older folks. They'll sit in a rainstorm if it's fun. They'll sit in a snowpile all day and play. They;ll eat bugs for crying out loud. ;D