Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Anoroc on March 23, 2006, 07:25:12 pm
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Hey- I just got this email:
"Hot Spring Spas is the first brand in the industry to be certified by the National Sanitation Foundation (NSF) as meeting a comprehensive set of standards that evaluate the overall safety and performance of the entire spa."
I wonder how long b4 all the spas get this new rating?
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I just searched the NSF website and found no reference to hotspring at all. Or any other manufacturer for that matter. Lot of references to companies that make PARTS for pools and spas.
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Anne,
Keep checking back. It's true, but it's also a new certification so it may take some time for it to be documented in the industry press as well as on the NSF web site.
If I see any articles or find any web site data I will gladly post it.
This is the first time an entire tub has been certified. BTW, HotSpring has had NSF certification for it's filters for quite some time now. For that info, go to: http://www.nsf.org/Certified/Pools/Listings.asp?Company=0J070&Standard=050
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This is exciting news! Every customer I talked to yesterday about the certification couldn't lay down their money fast enough once they found out HotSpring is the only spa that's NSF approved.
Terminator
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Can't wait till Arjunaman discusses how this is a sham of a certification and that ANSI is the only thing that matters. Over/Under 2 days.
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Term- I ran right out to the dealer yesteday and purchased two more spas. Well worth it with the new certification.
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Term- I ran right out to the dealer yesteday and purchased two more spas. Well worth it with the new certification.
Every member of the family should own a safe spa.
Terminator
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Can we get an executive summary of What the NSF is, and what HS does differetnly to get this recogcnition? And what does it mean?
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what HS does differetnly to get this recogcnition? And what does it mean?
I recall reading in a thread a couple of weeks ago where spahappy made a comment that HotSpring was the only spa company using a certain type of filtration. Could that have something to do with it?
Chaka Pakuni
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Someone PMed me that Sundance's Microclean filter system have this rating as well.
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Someone PMed me that Sundance filters have this rating as well.
That is a good start for them.
Terminator
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ouch :D
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To the best of my recollection NSF is Non Sufficient Funds, Watkins should be VERY proud! But serriously... This is the same thing as the Arthritis Foundation's endorsment. All spas that make water hot and move water benefit arthritis, all spas with proper sanitation and a filter keep water clean. It is merely propaganda that helps sell spas. I am not James Arjuna! ;)
Can we get an executive summary of What the NSF is, and what HS does differetnly to get this recogcnition? And what does it mean?
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OMG, that's the best laugh I've had all day, I typed in J.A.s full name and when I posted it his name came up James Arjuna, too freaking funny!
To the best of my recollection NSF is Non Sufficient Funds, Watkins should be VERY proud! But serriously... This is the same thing as the Arthritis Foundation's endorsment. All spas that make water hot and move water benefit arthritis, all spas with proper sanitation and a filter keep water clean. It is merely propaganda that helps sell spas. I am not James Arjuna! ;)
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But serriously... Tall spas with proper sanitation and a filter keep water clean. It is merely propaganda that helps sell spas.
By that reasoning, all spas with a ground wire are electrically safe, and should be considered ETL approved.
Sorry, but this is an exciting new certifiication, and I would suggest not trying to minimize it since the various other brands will most likely be climbing on board asap. Try to downplay it today, end up selling it/buying it next year.
NSF, in this case, stands for "National Sanitation Foundation," and it has nothing to do with the collection of domestic rubbish. Commercial pools have had to use only NSF-approved equipment for decades. This would be the pumps, filters, chlorine injectors, feeders, orp measuring systems and other stuff. They all had to have a little "NSF" sticker for the county inspector to see.
Here's a link: http://nsf.org/
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Heres more of the email:
The NSF is an independent, not-for-profit organization whose purpose is to help consumers Live Safer™ everyday. The NSF recently introduced the NSF P181 certification which – for the first time ever – combines health and safety requirements for circulation, filtration, heating and sanitation of spa water along with material, design & construction, and performance requirements.
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Since other brands already have their filteration systems and purifacation systems (ozone) approved by N.S.F. What is left for them to approve the whole spa. Since the N.S.F. really only cares about sanitation its not like they are looking at insulation or frames. Sounds to me like the "marketing machine" otherwise known as hotsprings is at it again. I bet h.s. was the first company to ever try to get the entire spa approved.
If you want to pump up h.s. do it the real way and talk about some of the truely good features h.s. has. Let lay off the marketing ploys
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Since other brands already have their filteration systems and purifacation systems (ozone) approved by N.S.F. What is left for them to approve the whole spa. Since the N.S.F. really only cares about sanitation its not like they are looking at insulation or frames. Sounds to me like the "marketing machine" otherwise known as hotsprings is at it again. I bet h.s. was the first company to ever try to get the entire spa approved.
If you want to pump up h.s. do it the real way and talk about some of the truely good features h.s. has. Let lay off the marketing ploys
You are just jealous.
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ok chris u got me...Wheres the H.S. koolaid...i'm ready to drink it
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Micah, I'm not sure if you're aware of this or not, but your website expired on March 16 so you might want to call your ISP. Just trying to help. :)
Chaka Pakuni
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I changed the address, just forgot to change it here, thanks for the info
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I changed the address, just forgot to change it here, thanks for the info
You are welcome, my friend. :)
Chaka Pakuni
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Since other brands already have their filteration systems and purifacation systems (ozone) approved by N.S.F. What is left for them to approve the whole spa. Since the N.S.F. really only cares about sanitation its not like they are looking at insulation or frames. Sounds to me like the "marketing machine" otherwise known as hotsprings is at it again. I bet h.s. was the first company to ever try to get the entire spa approved.
If you want to pump up h.s. do it the real way and talk about some of the truely good features h.s. has. Let lay off the marketing ploys
I have to agree with Micah. HS created this bandwagon, and probably others will jump on it, as they have no choice. Competition being what it is. Now, if you told me that there were companies that attempted this certification and failed, I'd be wary of them. But is anyone really going to tell me that this new announcement means that you feel safer in a HS than any other brand? Haven't some very knowledgeable people here already said that tub sanitation is really more about the owner's diligence and proper maintenance than about the tub?
I'm not knocking HS for getting this certification, but all it means to me is that they are actively trying to improve in public perception and keep standards high. That is GREAT. But do I suddenly have HS-envy? Not at all.
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Yep, some lead, others follow. It's what makes the world rotate on a slightly off-canter elipse.
Terminator
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Sorry, but this is an exciting new certifiication, and I would suggest not trying to minimize it since the various other brands will most likely be climbing on board asap. Try to downplay it today, end up selling it/buying it next year.
Hats off to Watkins for being first to receive the cert. I agree that the vast majority of manufacturers will be certified soon as there doesn't seem to be anything earthshattering surrounding Watkins products that would set them apart from most other manufacturers who have yet to apply/receive the cert. Watkins' executives were very astute to get on the bandwagon first but their uniqueness will not last long. Make hay while the sun shines.......
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Yep, it's been shining about 20 years in a row now. And it's not from sheer dumb luck, that's for sure. :)
Terminator
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/HSKoolaid.jpg)
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Dd I miss it? What is about HS filtration that makes it safer?
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Dd I miss it? What is about HS filtration that makes it safer?
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/filtration.jpg)
Terminator
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/HSKoolaid.jpg)
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/filtration.jpg)
Terminator
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/HSKoolaid.jpg)
ROFLMAO.........Term, you got me on that one! ;D
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Is that a cheese doodle and tadpoles passing through the pump? ???
Chaka Pakuni
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I thought the no bypass filtraion made the water cleaner of particualte matter, and was better for the pumps, but safer?
Safer?
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Clean water is safe water. Also, small children won't pass through the pump. They get filtered out.
Terminator
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Clean water is safe water. Also, small children won't pass through the pump. They get filtered out.
Terminator
"Clean water is safer. "
Does HS water have less bacteria in it? (I thought the filters were more for particualte matter, not microbiolical). Sure it grabs the curley hairs, but bacteria will still pass thorugh the filter, no?
Specifcally what are the dangers that this elimiates?
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OK, it's time we cut the advertising and get down to some facts........
Here's Watkins listing in the NSF for protocol P181:
Watkins NSF Listing (http://www.nsf.org/certified/protocols/Listings.asp?TradeName=&Standard=P181)
Notice that the Tiger River line is listed as well as the HS line. Do Tiger River tubs have 100% filtration? NO. So all of this talk surrounding the NSF certification and no-bypass filtration is just that......talk/advertising. In reality, HS limits itself to 2 therapy pumps and 1 circulation pump with its 5 filters. They would not be able to build a model with more than 2 therapy pumps without adding 2 more filters/pump and still maintain their 100% no-bypass filtration. They will say they don't need more pumps and most would say the therapy of their tubs is fine and that no more pumps are needed. After wet testing the Vista, Envoy, Grandee and Vanguard, I found the therapy and seating was not for me. Could any of those tubs benefitted from another pump? In my opinion, when compared to the therapy of my tub, yes. But the greater number of happy HS owners would disagree and I would hope they would. My point is only that HS would not be able to add more pumps to their tubs without adding more filters. Building tubs like Artesian's or Master's or whoever else builds one with more than 2 therapy pumps would be a major impact on them.....and I'll bet HS owners wouldn't like dealing with 7 or 9 filters, 100% no-bypass filtration or not.
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This is exciting news! Every customer I talked to yesterday about the certification couldn't lay down their money fast enough once they found out HotSpring is the only spa that's NSF approved.
Terminator
Now how do you suppose those same customers are going to feel the first time they open up that HS spa and the spa water has turned cloudy and stinky. :-/??? Or when one of them catches some ichy skin condition and the DR. tells them its from their spa. >:( >:(
But if it helps you sell more spas than it must be OK.
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Does HS water have less bacteria in it?
No sir. Not as it relates to filtration methods.
Specifcally what are the dangers that this elimiates?
Used in conjuction with a proper sanitation regimen provides cleaner, healthier water. I should have been more clear in stating "healthier for your spa." That has been my contention all along and I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear. My oversight.
Terminator
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/HSKoolaid.jpg)
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Used in conjuction with a proper sanitation regimen provides cleaner, healthier water.
Cleaner, healthier than what? All the other spas that do not have 100% no-bypass filtration? Sorry, Term, that one doesn't float. Give us some facts to back up your statement or state it as your opinion or as advertised or whatever......just please don't blur the lines between opinion/advertising and facts.
<Putting on my bulletproof vest.....>
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No sir. Not as it relates to filtration methods.
Used in conjuction with a proper sanitation regimen provides cleaner, healthier water. I should have been more clear in stating "healthier for your spa." That has been my contention all along and I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear. My oversight.
Terminator
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/HSKoolaid.jpg)
Healther for you spa?
But what about SAFER. What risks are reduced by this filtration system that makes it safer?
Sorry to be a pain. But I am missing somehting. :P
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http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=DEADHORSE;action=display;num=1142459485
Here is where this was hashed out before. :)
I like to have my water filtered, others may choose not to. To each his or her own.
Terminator
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Now how do you suppose those same customers are going to feel the first time they open up that HS spa and the spa water has turned cloudy and stinky. :-/??? Or when one of them catches some ichy skin condition and the DR. tells them its from their spa. >:( >:(
But if it helps you sell more spas than it must be OK.
I'll simply review their water care regimen and offer suggestions as to how they can prevent this rare occurence. The spa sure didn't make them itch. ???
The post you quoted was in jest on my part. Who on earth is going to buy a $9000 spa because I tell them it's NSF approved? I am fortunate to have much bigger tools at my disposal, but I believe it is a step in the right direction for the spa industry. We'll see. :)
Terminator
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Arjunaman has commented on his site. Thought it would take much longer.
Same old shit on his site, "cheap plastic full of foam."
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Terms just jealous that his tubs don't have the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, like Sundance does. ;D
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Terms just jealous that his tubs don't have the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, like Sundance does. ;D
I pulled a drewstar and actually went to the Sundance website to verify this and was unable to locate the GHSOA. I immediately fired off an e-mail to the president of Sundance as well as the publishers of Good Housekeeping looking for answers. I also contacted California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to request that his office look into this matter.
In the process, I did run across a claim that Sundance is the "world's largest manufacturer of acrylic spas". Is this true? ;)
Drewsurfdog
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In the process, I did run across a claim that Sundance is the "world's largest manufacturer of acrylic spas". Is this true?
no.
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I went to JA site to to see if there was any information on the NSF rating for HS. I found a few comments...
Wow- is there a lot of hate on JA site or what?
I think I will just hang around this site for now on.
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In a nut shell, what I said 35 posts back, is it is purely sales propaganda. The NSF sticker for the county has to do with keeping the public safe, and that sticker is meaningless if they are not keeping their chlorine levels between 5 and 7ppm when the county inspector pops in. Sundance has recieved the good house keeping seal, and this has only to do with their temperature settings. Very odd if you ask me. What do they care about spa water temperature. If it had to do with filtration it would make sense, baybe I missed that part when I heard about it. One of the things it has done is ELIMINATE the over temp chip. So, if you are a Jacuzzi or Sundance dealer and you have people that like the watter hotter than 104, you better order up any over temp chips that are left, cuz they are going bye bye.
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This one has bored me for awhile. Someone let me know if it needs moved to Dead Horse.
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This one has bored me for awhile. Someone let me know if it needs moved to Dead Horse.
Back up the truck!
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Wow- is there a lot of hate on JA site or what?
It used to aggravate me to no end seeing his drivel posted on the various forums. Then after a phone conversation with a prestigious member of this forum, I began to see him for what he really is: some Joe Schmoe who has simply found a way to make a living by appealing to the "conspiracy theory" crowd.
Those folks are so anti-establishment that they gravitate towards someone who can go on and on and on about trite matters until his customer base actually becomes somewhat brainwashed. It takes a certain kind of intelligence to buy an off-brand spa, add what amounts to some styrofoam, aluminum foil, and a fan, increase the price substantially, and find people that will actually buy it.
I couldn't do it because I wouldn't be able to live with myself, but my hat's off to him that he has found a niche market and exploited it.[/quote]
I think I will just hang around this site for now on.
Excellent choice! I'm glad you're here. :)
Terminator
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term,
just because I brought up the koolaid don't go thinking I have anything in common with Mr J.A.
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term,
just because I brought up the koolaid don't go thinking I have anything in common with Mr J.A.
I'm sorry if I gave that impression. ??? I would never insinuate something like that. I thought the Kool-Aid comment was funny and one of the posters on here e-mailed me the logo to use. No disrespect directed towards anyone on here. :)
Terminator
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ok, come on now who drank the koolaid. To try to imply that other spas are not safe and only hot springs is safe is just untrue Everyone know that with the current model of suction fittings used by ALL manufactures there is no possible way to get sucked in. To say it's safer is just playing on a customers emotions.
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What is being said is that Hot Spring and Tiger River are NSF certified and no other spas are. Does that make them safer? Only the consumer can interpret what that NSF seal means. It would seem to me that it is better to NSF certified than not.
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dan,
does that mean that we are safer now with the stamp then we were before we got it...I didn't think so.
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Nhehehehehehe....BANG!
that was my interpretation of a horse being shot.
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The NSF created a new certification - using the UL standard and the ANSI - and HotSpring/Tiger River spas are the first to be certified. The NSF has some limited info about this certification on it's site.
I don't know where the anger and bitter recriminations are coming from - this is not some bogus ad campaign.
I'm sorry if this angers some of you, but if there are shoppers here to gather information, then they just learned two things:
HS tends to lead the industry, and
Other brands (as represented here) tend to carp about it.
Have a nice weekend everybody - I'm really not trying to stir up angry arguments. I am proud to offer the tubs I do, it didn't happen by accident. This is a new cert program, not a reason to bash HS.
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IMHO, I'm glad that the brand I'm purchasing is leading in some areas.....technology, certifications, etc....I wouldn't really give a rats ass about being the first to do something though, as long as it's a solid investment, quality product, has great consumer reviews, etc...
As far as JA's site......holy crappleberries, Batman....I got nauseous after about 5 minutes of surfing it.....it's all "we're the best, everyone else SUCKS!" grade school mentality. Unbe-frickin-lievable.....and people BUY from them???? As gritchy as some of these posts can be here..I've never got the urge to fire off a nasty letter to the HHIC (head honcho in charge) about how aggravating it is to read through that slop! How unprofessional......UGH.
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I don't know where the anger and bitter recriminations are coming from - this is not some bogus ad campaign.
I might have skimmed entries too quickly, and missed "anger and bitter recrimination" but I dont think that is what people are posting here. To me, these comments sum it up:
"Sounds to me like the "marketing machine" otherwise known as hotsprings is at it again. I bet h.s. was the first company to ever try to get the entire spa approved. "
"HS created this bandwagon, and probably others will jump on it, as they have no choice. Competition being what it is. Now, if you told me that there were companies that attempted this certification and failed, I'd be wary of them."
" Hats off to Watkins for being first to receive the cert. I agree that the vast majority of manufacturers will be certified soon as there doesn't seem to be anything earthshattering surrounding Watkins products that would set them apart from most other manufacturers who have yet to apply/receive the cert. Watkins' executives were very astute to get on the bandwagon first but their uniqueness will not last long. "
"that sticker is meaningless if they are not keeping their chlorine levels between 5 and 7ppm when the county inspector pops in"
"IMHO, I'm glad that the brand I'm purchasing is leading in some areas.....technology, certifications, etc....I wouldn't really give a rats ass about being the first to do something though, as long as it's a solid investment, quality product, has great consumer reviews, etc... "
Any comments about kool aid and the "other site" are just inflammatory.
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Try to downplay it today, end up selling it/buying it next year.
No offense Chas, but that is exactly what every sales person should do. As we all have done for years....
"you really dont want a color shell; solid white is best. If you had to paint your walls only 1 color and couldnt change it for 10 years, what color would you paint them? White........."
" you dont want a stereo on your spa, its just 1 more thing to go wrong."
" you dont want stainless steel collars on your jets, thats just for show. "
Top Gun Graduate
Callsign: DEVIL
;)
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I hope I do not ruffle any feathers here....but I am of the opinion that very very few of these endorsements really add up to much outside of marketing value....what I mean by this is that take away its marketing value and you take away the program....Unlike a "UL" or "ETL" that is a build stardard....I represent a line of spas that has several of these endorsements and the only one that I personally will hang my hat on is its UL approval the rest of them I think offer little subsidence value. and if asked I will openly share this with any shopper....lol.....now before anyone jumps on me here I am not pointing a finger at any manufacture that does not also come right back at me....I just find most of these things...when examined closely not to add up to a whole lot.....
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OK,...This is really a funny coincidence..they have been happening to me lately. In my yesterday's email is an item from...HOtSPRINGS HOT TUBS...and it all about the certification. I really have no comment about the certification I want to know how Hot Springs got my email address...I have never entered it on their web site, nor requested sales material or entered contests.
And I have already purchased a Marquis Spa....The only very remote connection that I can even think of is that I hold Masco stock, but why would they inform me of this when it didn't drive the stock at all... ???
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Well said Mendo.
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I like to have my water filtered, others may choose not to. To each his or her own.
Just as I choose to enjoy what I feel is superior therapy as provided by more than 2 therapy pumps....others may choose differently....to each his/her own.
Time to put this one to pasture......
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When I posted the original message I had a feeling this would create significant dialogue but I am surprised by how much.
What I appreciate about this forum is that there are so many of you out there that really know your stuff and are willing to share it with the rest of us.
Yes, sometimes things get a little personal or touchy, but generally speaking, things are kept at a pretty professional level. And a few points of humor are thrown in as well.
I think this subject has been hit pretty hard already and it is time to move, but I must say that this type of discussion as well as the many others on this board is what makes this an interesting place to visit and participate in.
Have a great weekend all. :D ;D ;)
Anoroc
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Yes, sometimes things get a little personal or touchy, but generally speaking, things are kept at a pretty professional level. Anoroc
Oh stick a sock in it ! :P :P
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OK,...This is really a funny coincidence..they have been happening to me lately. In my yesterday's email is an item from...HOtSPRINGS HOT TUBS...and it all about the certification. I really have no comment about the certification I want to know how Hot Springs got my email address...I have never entered it on their web site, nor requested sales material or entered contests.
And I have already purchased a Marquis Spa....The only very remote connection that I can even think of is that I hold Masco stock, but why would they inform me of this when it didn't drive the stock at all... ???
Just wondering if you made an inquiry through spasearch or any other internet spa site when you were in the research mode. If so, Hot Spring may have aquired your name that way.
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OK,...This is really a funny coincidence..they have been happening to me lately. In my yesterday's email is an item from...HOtSPRINGS HOT TUBS...and it all about the certification. I really have no comment about the certification I want to know how Hot Springs got my email address...I have never entered it on their web site, nor requested sales material or entered contests.
And I have already purchased a Marquis Spa....The only very remote connection that I can even think of is that I hold Masco stock, but why would they inform me of this when it didn't drive the stock at all... ???
I also received the same email.
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I think there will always be another feather for the cap. There will be another endorsement. 100 years from now, we'll all be gone, and there will be too many endorsements for a manufacturer to print comfortably on a page.
But we'll be promoting the hell out of it.
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I pulled a drewstar and actually went to the Sundance website to verify this and was unable to locate the GHSOA. I immediately fired off an e-mail to the president of Sundance as well as the publishers of Good Housekeeping looking for answers. I also contacted California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to request that his office look into this matter.
In the process, I did run across a claim that Sundance is the "world's largest manufacturer of acrylic spas". Is this true? ;)
Drewsurfdog
You want me to pull an all out search and assualt on them? ;D ;) I can have the president of Sundance's daughters cell phone # for you buy lunch. ;) Pictures by supper.
;)