Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: TN__HOT_TUB on March 21, 2006, 10:16:06 pm
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Is it considered bad form to haggle with a spa dealer?
How much wiggle room do the dealers have? Do dealers routinely their price and throw in a few extras? (lifters, chemicals, accessories, etc.)
What's the best way to get these guys to cough up some of these extras?
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This question has been asked 1,000's of times!
Some people do and some don't. Some dealers have honest pricing and some don't. There's no real answer.
I didn't haggle with my dealer ... The price I was given was an excellent price IMO when compared to other tubs in my area that I looked at.
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Don't know the answer but no doubt it varies.
I went with a dealer I felt good about, made it clear I was going to buy somewhere and liked his product and then asked for his best price. What I got seemed fair (it already included the usual assortment of extras, didn't have to ask for them). So I made the deal. Maybe there was another couple hundred I could have haggled for but i feel like I will make up for it in service down the road if the dealer sees me as a customer worth trying to please. And I am getting my moneys worth as I don't hesitate to call with questions. I always get a response.
At least so far!
I will be calling again tomorrow as I had an error message on my panel this evening even though it went away and the spa seemed to function OK tonight.
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I think this is a sore spot for many shoppers, or at least a frustrating one. Many dealers don't provide a stated price, or allude to being able to work out a deal or some sort of "sale". This, I belive gives the consumer the impression that there is indeed room to haggle. Espcially so, if the salesperson is on a comission.
I belive that everything is negotiable. 8) And that there is absolutely no harm in asking what a salesperson can do to help with the price, or sweeten the deal. I belive a consumer would be foolish not to try and get the best deal for his money. Of course there is an art to it or maybe having a bit of tact when haggleing.
I say shop around, and absolutely try to negotiate the best deal possible. Just don't be surprised if the salesman says "No."
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Drewstar nailed it. This gets asked constantly, and there is no pat answer.
Some dealers may post prices knowing that there will be some dickering. Others may post the price they will sell the spa for, and that's that.
Nothing wrong with trying to get a deal, but don't get obsessed with it. I've said it before- you'll quickly forget about what you paid for your spa as soon as your caboose sits down in that water for the first time..
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I didn't haggle the price on the Grandee, but I was already getting a "cash" discount of just over $300. I did, however, ask what was included....I recall being told the steps OR coverlift, or if I wanted both, one was 50% off. I just asked if he could throw BOTH in at no cost. No problem.
I've also gone in to pick up a couple things (I'm antsy, what can I say?) and when I picked up a rubber duck and test strips, was told they were free, not to worry. I was ready to pay for both... ;D
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Pay 'da man for 'da tub .. deal on the accessories.
How about a swing-arm umbrella at dealer cost? How about a several-year supply of filters? Fancy surround and steps?
You get the idea!
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Pay 'da man for 'da tub .. deal on the accessories.
How about a swing-arm umbrella at dealer cost? How about a several-year supply of filters? Fancy surround and steps?
You get the idea!
Had I taken that route, I would have paid about $1600 more for the tub and the accessories.
You get the idea!
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My advice? Be sincere and be indecisive. I don't know if there is another industry with more "looky-Lew"s. I'm guessing most offers come upon the 2nd-4th time a customer visits a dealer. Having knowledge of their competitor's tub implies sincerity in buying and might also loosen up an offer.
That said, educate yourself on what a good deal is and not alienate a dealer who gives you a great deal right off the start.
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I had him work up a quote for me today. It's an Artesian Isalnd Grand Cayman with 32 jets and one 6HP pump. $4,799 + tax (which appears to be a real good offer in Knoxville).
24 months same as cash. I asked if they'd discount for cash payment...they won't since finance is done with local credit company and not in house.
Some of the options we're interested in (at a cost)
$150 cover lifter
$150 ozonator
$75 neck waterfall
$300 for extra two year warranty (4th year and 5th year). Island has just 3 year standard warranty.
I guess it won't hurt to ask if they'll throw some of these extras in (if not for free, maybe at a discount).
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I had him work up a quote for me today. It's an Artesian Isalnd Grand Cayman with 32 jets and one 6HP pump. $4,799 + tax (which appears to be a real good offer in Knoxville).
How can they sell that spa that cheap and remain in business? It looks like a well-made spa and I've heard nothing but good things about Artesian BUT, that is a very, very low price?
Chaka Pacuni
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I had him work up a quote for me today. It's an Artesian Isalnd Grand Cayman with 32 jets and one 6HP pump. $4,799 + tax (which appears to be a real good offer in Knoxville).
24 months same as cash. I asked if they'd discount for cash payment...they won't since finance is done with local credit company and not in house.
Some of the options we're interested in (at a cost)
$150 cover lifter
$150 ozonator
$75 neck waterfall
$300 for extra two year warranty (4th year and 5th year). Island has just 3 year standard warranty.
I guess it won't hurt to ask if they'll throw some of these extras in (if not for free, maybe at a discount).
My opinion is that this tub will be a little underpowered unless you wet tested already and like the feel. My 56 jet Cayman has 2 - 6 BHP pumps and another 3 BHP pump for the foot jets.
I wouldn't and didn't pay the extra money on the extended warranty, my dealer really said it was a waste of money.
Waterfall - some love it some don't.
Ozonator - buy it but you don't really need ozone for a clean tub. The nice thing with Artesian is you can control the amount of time the ozonator runs with the circ pump option.
Cover lifter - Definately and have them install it.
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How can they sell that spa that cheap and remain in business? It looks like a well-made spa and I've heard nothing but good things about Artesian BUT, that is a very, very low price?
Chaka Pacuni
They charge extra for the bubbles. ;D
Compared to the other spas in this price range, I'd agree...it's a nice tub for a nice price. The other $5,000 spas that I've seen elsewhere don't measure up.
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My opinion is that this tub will be a little underpowered unless you wet tested already and like the feel. My 56 jet Cayman has 2 - 6 BHP pumps and another 3 BHP pump for the foot jets.
I wouldn't and didn't pay the extra money on the extended warranty, my dealer really said it was a waste of money.
Waterfall - some love it some don't.
Ozonator - buy it but you don't really need ozone for a clean tub. The nice thing with Artesian is you can control the amount of time the ozonator runs with the circ pump option.
Cover lifter - Definately and have them install it.
Circulation pump is another $300. I don't think we're interested in adding that. Dealer suggested not paying for that, since the spa already has a cleaning cycle. With the one 6HP pump, you can use the diverter valves to shut off half the jets. Going with two 3HP pumps, there is no diverter valve...you just shut off one pump. I like the idea of being able to use the 6HP pump on half the jets.
I'd love to add extra pumps, extra jets, extra this, extra that...i just don't want to spend the cash-ola on all the extra do-dads.
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?Have them throw in a free rubber duck.
A hot tub without a rubber duck is just useless.
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TN...... Don't shortchange yourself on a few extras that you would like to have, you will have this many years, and you will get to enjoy those extras for a long time
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As previously mentioned, some dealers allow room for negotiation by increasing the price and discounting to show perceived value and some show value by added products such as lifters, steps, etc.
When I purchase any big ticket item, I always ask for their very best price first and tell them that I'm not negotiating it so make your first offer your best! By that stage though, I’ve done my homework and I’m ready to make a buying decision.
If you are going to haggle, you have to complete a number of things first. Mainly, you need to understand the true price of the product and its features to clearly determine value. You need to know other tubs in your area and give yourself an accurate comparison and not just based on PRICE! In other words, don’t go into a spa store, get the price and ask for a better deal unless you are prepared to buy!
The reason many dealers don’t display price is that consumers have NO IDEA if $7000 is a good price and good value for THAT particular item until the have a clear understanding of the product itself and it’s features. If at a show and someone comes up and asks how much that spa is, I’ll say $8000..Is that a good deal? It’s interesting to hear the answers! People have no clue and can't answer that question until they have reached a certain level of understanding.
Steve
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?Have them throw in a free rubber duck.
A hot tub without a rubber duck is just useless.
*LOL* Personally, I LIKE ducks....and rubber cows....I got the "family" type (1 adult, 3 kidlets) at a party store down the road....$3.99.....these are the GOOD floaters!
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I am not a dealer ( of any type ) so I feel I can say this.
It's ok to ask for the best price they can give you and to try to do well with the xtras, steps,cover lifter, start up chems etc. But remember one thing ........... Your dealer is entitled to a profit, It is also in your best interest that he makes one too! It's a whole lot nicer ( in most cases ) dealing with the same people year after year. I do run a business and I can tell you it's human nature to take better care of those whom are loyal and don't beat you up on price all the time........... Feel good about you purchase, be happy with your tub but don't feel bad if someone here pays a little less that you did......... it all always seems to come out in the wash anyway
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Circulation pump is another $300. I don't think we're interested in adding that. Dealer suggested not paying for that, since the spa already has a cleaning cycle. With the one 6HP pump, you can use the diverter valves to shut off half the jets. Going with two 3HP pumps, there is no diverter valve...you just shut off one pump. I like the idea of being able to use the 6HP pump on half the jets.
I'd love to add extra pumps, extra jets, extra this, extra that...i just don't want to spend the cash-ola on all the extra do-dads.
I agree with jsimo7 with don't shortchange yourself. Get what you want/need but remember that you'll be living with this thing for many years ... $1000 saved now is $100 a year for 10 years.
As far as do-dads - I guess it's how you look at it. I own one and it's nice when there's more than one person in the tub, I don't have shut down a seat to get therapy and all the seats can get great therapy at any time.
That's what's great about this line you can get it however you want!
Good Luck!
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I hope some don't see this as being unjust, but having a family run business that has no sales personnel operating on commissions, I won't hesitate to send the persistent haggler down the road. If he/she can't except that the price I am offering "IS" the best available, and they hammer me and hammer me (Easy Drewstar ;D), then I will politely let them know that in the long term, you are not the type of customer I want to deal with. It turns some off, and others appreciate the cander. The ones that are turned off, I am happy to see walk out the door.
I realize everyone wants to feel that the got a great deal...Well....This approach kinda lets them know there not getting screwed. ;)
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I've got his offer in writing. I think i'll ask if he can throw in something. Never hurts to ask. Somehow i feel he might see the benefit in letting me have a "free" lifter for the $5,000 tub. I don't think it'll be a deal breaker, or that I'll walk away if he won't.
I've not haggled or been unruly...i guess i figure it can't hurt to ask him to throw in something. He can always just say no...and so can I.
He's entitled to an honest profit, but I'd be a fool not to kindly ask for a "freebie." I somehow think that not every single person that has bought a tub has always paid for every single add-on.
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Asking for a free lifter, or $100 steps etc.. is expected.
It's this type of senario:
Sales P: That spa is 8,995.00
Cust: I'll give you 8,000.00
Sales P: I'm sorry, that's my best price
Cust: I'll give you 8,000.00 tax incl
Sales P: If you have an 8,000.00 budget, I'll be happy to show you some spas in your price range
Cust: I can buy any spa you have, but I'm gonna get what I want for price I wanna pay
and so on....
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Asking for a free lifter, or $100 steps etc.. is expected.
It's this type of senario:
Sales P: That spa is 8,995.00
Cust: I'll give you 8,000.00
Sales P: I'm sorry, that's my best price
Cust: I'll give you 8,000.00 tax incl
Sales P: If you have an 8,000.00 budget, I'll be happy to show you some spas in your price range
Cust: I can buy any spa you have, but I'm gonna get what I want for price I wanna pay
and so on....
Dealer: The lifter costs $150
Customer: If i buy a tub, could you throw it in for free?
Dealer: No
Customer: You mean to tell me that you've never thrown in a $150 lifter to a customer that just bought a $5,000 tub from you?
Dealer: That's right...that is why EVERYTHING in here is clearly marked with a price tag. :D
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I hope some don't see this as being unjust, but having a family run business that has no sales personnel operating on commissions, I won't hesitate to send the persistent haggler down the road. If he/she can't except that the price I am offering "IS" the best available, and they hammer me and hammer me (Easy Drewstar ;D), then I will politely let them know that in the long term, you are not the type of customer I want to deal with. It turns some off, and others appreciate the cander. The ones that are turned off, I am happy to see walk out the door.
I realize everyone wants to feel that the got a great deal...Well....This approach kinda lets them know there not getting screwed. ;)
Huh. I guess I come across differntly in the written word than in person. ;)
I'm a great customer and will "haggle" and bargin and shop around, but I'm not an a-hole about it. There is a thing called tact, and it's about dealing with salesfolks in a polite manner that allows you to deal, but not be combative, or try to nickle and dime the seller.
Haggleing isn't necessaryly a diryt word. Shop around, know what the competive prices are. When your ready to make a deal, then deal. Ask what's the best price they can do, and since, if you've done your homework, you'll know if the seller is being forthright. Look at the prices of all the items included seperatley and bundled. It's all about creating a relationship with the dealer and getting a square deal. Asking about it and investigating it is part of the process.
It's the customers that think haggeling has to be a aggresive, or beating the dealer situation that is wrong.
Perhaps a nicer word would be "negotating your best deal".
How's that sound?
;)
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I think I'll ask if they can do a little better and/or throw me a discount on some of the accesories and/or upgrades.
What's the harm in politely asking?
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I'm of the same mindset as pkud. We don't necessarily want everyone who walks through our door to be our customer.
Offer your best price up front, negotiate some on the accessories. If the spa's on sale, you're not getting anything "thrown in". It get's to a point where it's not worth making a deal, from a dealer's standpoint.
TN_HOT_TUB, it doesn't hurt to ask. Good luck! :)
Terminator
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Just went through it on a Sundance Bahia floor model 2005.
Spa listed at $7799 w/stereo cd, ozonator etc. We looked at the spa and showed some interest. Dealer said floor model is on sale at $5999.99 because we MUST MOVE OLD STOCK to make room for new.
Wife and I thought about it, went back and said we'll give you asking price but we need three things: 1) same as cash 12 months 2) lifter 3) 1 month before delivery to prep the spot (they had originally wanted immediate delivery). He said OK!
We were happy with the deal and so was the dealer and many on this board have confirmed the deal as pretty darn good which makes us feel even better.
Electrician will be out tonight...adding more posts to existing deck this weekend....spa delivery coundown is 21 days (or sooner if we can get prep work done!!!)
Good luck and remember, a reputable dealer can be worth a couple extra dollars in the long run.
Dave in Cleveland
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Just went through it on a Sundance Bahia floor model 2005.
Spa listed at $7799 w/stereo cd, ozonator etc. We looked at the spa and showed some interest. Dealer said floor model is on sale at $5999.99 because we MUST MOVE OLD STOCK to make room for new.
Wife and I thought about it, went back and said we'll give you asking price but we need three things: 1) same as cash 12 months 2) lifter 3) 1 month before delivery to prep the spot (they had originally wanted immediate delivery). He said OK!
We were happy with the deal and so was the dealer and many on this board have confirmed the deal as pretty darn good which makes us feel even better.
Electrician will be out tonight...adding more posts to existing deck this weekend....spa delivery coundown is 21 days (or sooner if we can get prep work done!!!)
Good luck and remember,
Dave in Cleveland
You got a great deal.
I don't understand why you say.."a reputable dealer can be worth a couple extra dollars in the long run."
this guy save you $2K upfront. ;D
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If you go to that dealer with 50 $100 dollar bills you will get the deal with a coverlift and probably save a couple bucks in tax.
When negotiating, make sure you are in their office and not on the sales floor and lay the cash in front of the salesperson. Trust me they won’t walk away from the deal, but you need to be willing.
I believe someone on this forum did this.
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You got a great deal.
I don't understand why you say.."a reputable dealer can be worth a couple extra dollars in the long run."
this guy save you $2K upfront. ;D
It was just advise to the original author of the post....more for him I guess to focus less on a few hundred dollars and more on the dealer seeing as you will have a long term relationship with them. My dealer has a very good rep also and had we paid more, we would have still thought it was a good deal.....
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Steve is correct being able to "haggle" depends on many things a customer should have done first. The dealer does not want you to ask for discount, free accessories, ect. if you are not ready to buy now, if he has given you a fair price. He will appreciate your offer much more if you are truly ready to buy and make a statement something like "I will buy right now if you do this accessory or whatever". I don't feel it is bad make a fair offer AFTER you know what a fair offer is, but you must follow through and complete the purchase if he is willing to do what you asked him to do, or you should be somewhat flexible if he counters you with something close. Making a unfair offer and not being ready to buy will hurt your relationship with the dealer. I will never make a offer until I'm ready to buy now.
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I agree.....I'm willing to pay a bit more for the same product (or jump a level or two HIGHER) if the person selling the product that I'm looking at is a "decent" sort, and can make me feel comfortable about the money spent...my hubby is the same way.
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$5000 in cash shouldn't make a bit of difference. A reputable dealer collects and pays sales tax. A dealer that shaves will soon no longer be a dealer. The 2 or 300 he can put in his pocet now is meaningless over the course of a year. The customers perception that cash speaks louder than a check or credit card is just that, a perception. It all spends the same in the end.
If you go to that dealer with 50 $100 dollar bills you will get the deal with a coverlift and probably save a couple bucks in tax.
When negotiating, make sure you are in their office and not on the sales floor and lay the cash in front of the salesperson. Trust me they won’t walk away from the deal, but you need to be willing.
I believe someone on this forum did this.
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Wisoki,
I am in complete agreement with you because $300 dollars doesn’t mean much over the course of a year for the dealer, but $300 dollars for a consumer could be a make or break decision. I am sure you lost a sale or two because the guy down the road was $300 less.
However, it is salesmanship. Lay the money in front of them and make the dealer say “No” to the deal. My argument is that it is extremely difficult to say no to 50 $100 dollar bills, but pretty easy to say no to a credit card or check.
Chris
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Credit cards cost form 3/4% to3% depending on volume of sales through the credit card co. So 2% of 5000 is 100.00 cost to the merchant. You shouldn't expect to save 300 for cash when a credit card cost is 100
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Steve is correct being able to "haggle" depends on many things a customer should have done first. The dealer does not want you to ask for discount, free accessories, ect. if you are not ready to buy now, if he has given you a fair price. He will appreciate your offer much more if you are truly ready to buy and make a statement something like "I will buy right now if you do this accessory or whatever". I don't feel it is bad make a fair offer AFTER you know what a fair offer is, but you must follow through and complete the purchase if he is willing to do what you asked him to do, or you should be somewhat flexible if he counters you with something close. Making a unfair offer and not being ready to buy will hurt your relationship with the dealer. I will never make a offer until I'm ready to buy now.
I agree, I hate it when you come to an agreement with a customer only for them to then move the goal posts. You can't negotiate with someone who does that.
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Reciprocity.
"If you are able to take delivery by the end of the week, I'll go ahead and include the cover lifter. How does that sound?"
You scratch my leg and I'll scratch yours.
Terminator
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My wife isn't particularly blown away by the dealer. I've visited their showroom 4 times. My wife visited twice and did not have a pleasant experience either time. Granted, we had our two small kids with us.
I visited on a Saturday...met the sales guy and browsed the showroom. He said they were running a sale next week. I returned on Monday with wife and kids...sales guy was with somebody, said hello and then carried on. Twenty minutes later, we walked out of the showroom without even saying goodbye. I think i would have sent somebody else over to us to once again say hello...especially since there were about 5 other folks working there (i'm sure they we'ren't sales staff...but come on).
Wife, kids, and I returned Wednesday afternoon and asked for "Joe." The other sales guy, "Bob" said he wasn't there. We browsed the showroom again...climbing in and out of various tubs. "Bob" was not all that friendly. I guess since I asked for "Joe" he knew he wouldn't be collecting a sales commission for assisting us. Finding out about the tubs, was almost like pulling teeth..."Bob" was definitely not excited about having us there. Twenty minutes later, we left. Wife does not want to go back.
I returned a few days later, alone. "Joe" was there and was quite helpful (I wish my wife and kids had been there this time). "Joe" gave me a price quote and here we are.
Trust me, I haven't been a jerk...I haven't wasted anybody's time or hammered anybody about anything. I'd think it would be clear to them that I'm quite interested in a hot tub (4 seperate visits in two weeks...i was even crazy enough to bring my two kids twice). When you guys speak of all this wonderful dealer relationship...I wonder how anxious they'll be to help and/or service me after they've got my money? Right now they aren't exactly jumping at the bit to collect that money of mine.
I just called "Joe" and left my phone number for him to call me back. Let's hope he does. Rest assured, I'm anxious to start a relationship...I just don't know if they are.
there's the phone...gotta go
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Huh. I guess I come across differntly in the written word than in person. ;)
I'm a great customer and will "haggle" and bargin and shop around, but I'm not an a-hole about it. There is a thing called tact, and it's about dealing with salesfolks in a polite manner that allows you to deal, but not be combative, or try to nickle and dime the seller.
Haggleing isn't necessaryly a diryt word. Shop around, know what the competive prices are. When your ready to make a deal, then deal. Ask what's the best price they can do, and since, if you've done your homework, you'll know if the seller is being forthright. Look at the prices of all the items included seperatley and bundled. It's all about creating a relationship with the dealer and getting a square deal. Asking about it and investigating it is part of the process.
It's the customers that think haggeling has to be a aggresive, or beating the dealer situation that is wrong.
Perhaps a nicer word would be "negotating your best deal".
How's that sound?
;)
Drewstar, I was talking about you making a joke on the hammer me and hammer me part. ;)
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I'll keep this one short.
Good news folks. He did call back. He IS going to work with me on an accessory or two. He even advised me on which accessories I ought to look into and which ones I ought to save my money on.
Wet test scheduled for tomorrow. Unless we drown in the tub, I think we'll place our order.