Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: fletch49 on March 16, 2005, 09:41:02 am
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The other day I read on a news wire that the Attorney General in the State of Missouri is taking legal action to shut down the Cashable Voucher program.
I looked into this program a while back, after I saw a advertisment in a local Toronto newspaper advertising Dynastry Spa's for about 75% off retail price. The company that deals with this program in Toronto, Ontario is called Polar Spa's. They sell Dynasty and Polar brand spas.
This program is absolutely a scam, however, the store had a board up showing all of the happy customers that purchased under the program. I bet there was 100 people, and the store had only been open for about a month!
I'd be interested to know if anyone has had experience with this program? If so, what was the outcome?
Thanks
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From -http://www.ago.mo.gov/
Vague and misleading "cashable voucher program" sets up consumers to fail with claims, Nixon says in lawsuit
A promotional scheme that promises consumers rebates — yet makes the qualifications almost impossible for the consumers to meet — violates Missouri law against misleading and deceptive practices, Attorney General Nixon says, right at a news conference. He is suing to stop the "cashable voucher program," which is being marketed by a Kansas City-area business and operated out of England.
This isn't a Dynasty marketing practice.
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I too would like to hear if anybody has had first-hand experience with this type of promotion.
A few years back nearly bought a new Coleman tent trailer from a very large (and reputable) RV dealer who was offering this program -just couldn't see how I they could guarentee such large returns on my investment ($1000's) - had to walk away.
Jc
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It amazes me that people fall for this type of thing.
The math just doesn't make sense, you can't buy something and expect to get all of your money back in a few years. Where would the money come from to give these refunds?
Brewman
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nor is it limited to Master Spas, yet folks try to put the blame on MS dealers. Consumer Promotions also did this program for roofing, plastic surgery, Heating and A/C, autos, etc.
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Maybe I'm out to lunch here, but if you have an extra 10k kicking around to buy something as nonessential as a Spa, you've likely made a few wise financial decisions in life...
As well, it's gotta take a fairly slippery sales guy to push a product like that. Which is what put my flag up.
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nor is it limited to Master Spas, yet folks try to put the blame on MS dealers. Consumer Promotions also did this program for roofing, plastic surgery, Heating and A/C, autos, etc.
It is certainly not limited to Master spas ....they just seem to embrace more than most with very open arms....
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In Canada, Polar Spas is based out of Calgary, where I'm from. They continue to advertise this as the only reason to buy a spa from them. They don't even talk about the spa itself that much, just the rebate program. They're just banking on the fact that a large majority won't ask for the cash back when the time comes.
I did go into the Polar store before I bought my Jacuzzi, and he explained like it was somewhat rocket science to get your money. You had to claim it within a certain time before the expiration date to get it. It seemed very complicated and fishy to say the least.
It's unfortunate when there are quite a few reputable dealers in Calgary that there's still one's like this.
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Sometimes these programs have nothing to do with the manufacturer at all. Locally I have a competitor (Cannon)that offers them. They sell Artesian & Viking. I know another Artesian dealer that would not touch such a program with a 3 metre poll (thats ten feet for you yankees :D)
The dealer has a deal with a rebate pogram dealer.
HTM
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This what the Canadian government has to say about them:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/incb-bc.nsf/en/ct03009e.html
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The store where I work did this program 2 !/2 yrs ago. The way it works is: The dealer buys the voucher for a 15% fee of the face value. The dealer then marks UP the price of the spa to cover the additional cost of the promotion.
The consumer must then send a copy of the voucher, & the receipt by registered mail within a certain time frame from delivery. Within 3 days I think. Then within 3 days of the 3 year anniversary the consumer must send a bunch of goofy things by registered mail again ( like proof of sale, proof of address etc...) Supposedly if EVERYTHING is done EXACTLY right, the face amount of the voucher will then by sent to the customer.
The money to fund the pay outs comes from the tremendous amount of money that accumulates in the trust fund from people that either miss the deadline or somehow don't do everything right. The deal is BRUTALLY specific. You either make it or you don't.
We ran the deal for 1 month and sold ALOT of spas. The 3rd anniversary is coming up this fall so we'll see if anyone shows up at the store blaming us because they didnt get their money back. ( actually I won't be here but I'll hear about it I'm sure)
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It is certainly not limited to Master spas ....they just seem to embrace more than most with very open arms....
Interesting how perceived notions are propogated at the slightest stimuli........
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Interesting how perceived notions are propogated at the slightest stimuli........
NO not really.....but like the shows that we went around with last week....It is just something that Master seems to do on a regular basis .....The Show by the way... was all that unfortunately many thought it would be.. Master and their lines with no others ....talked with a few folks who were not at all pleased about making the trip to it only to find this out when they got there....
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Thanks for the link Hottubman. It was exactly what I was looking for.
Jc
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Interesting how perceived notions are propogated at the slightest stimuli........
...like spring rain on dry ground...
..."by their fruits ye shall know them".
Only time will tell if the ends justify the means.
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Here's another program that serves as proof that, "If it sounds to good to be true,...":
http:// http://www.cashbackamerica.com/
And here is it's nemesis:
http:// http://www.cashbackamericasucks.com/ ]
And more on the oxymoronical "Consumers Trust":
http:// http://www.spock.usshurdman.com/~van/commonreport.html?bid=1161778
http://
http://www.kansascity.bbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=11020628
If consumers indeed did trust, then the nefarious promoters of these "so-called" cash-back vouchers may unfortunately slither away unscathed. Hope not.
For your own sake, do not use these programs. Consumer, do not trust. Do your homework.
CAVEAT EMPTOR
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The store where I work did this program 2 !/2 yrs ago. The way it works is: The dealer buys the voucher for a 15% fee of the face value. The dealer then marks UP the price of the spa to cover the additional cost of the promotion.
The consumer must then send a copy of the voucher, & the receipt by registered mail within a certain time frame from delivery. Within 3 days I think. Then within 3 days of the 3 year anniversary the consumer must send a bunch of goofy things by registered mail again ( like proof of sale, proof of address etc...) Supposedly if EVERYTHING is done EXACTLY right, the face amount of the voucher will then by sent to the customer.
The money to fund the pay outs comes from the tremendous amount of money that accumulates in the trust fund from people that either miss the deadline or somehow don't do everything right. The deal is BRUTALLY specific. You either make it or you don't.
We ran the deal for 1 month and sold ALOT of spas. The 3rd anniversary is coming up this fall so we'll see if anyone shows up at the store blaming us because they didnt get their money back. ( actually I won't be here but I'll hear about it I'm sure)
Did anyone get their money back?
Terminator
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Did anyone get their money back?
Terminator
Polar spas appeared on the market roughly 2 years ago locally. They offered a cash voucher program. Ads looked like this:
Price : $17,000
Discount: $6,000
Voucher Rebates: $6,000
Final Price: $5,000
You SAVE: $12,000
Well the vouchers became due just recently. Unfortunately, Polar spa has gone bankrupt. All of the suckers customers that purchased these tubs did not get their rebates and now have no warranty.
Luckily for the spa market around here, those fellas that were dealing those spas are now flogging Dynasty and doing the home show circuit around here ???
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Luckily for the spa market around here, those fellas that were dealing those spas are now flogging Dynasty and doing the home show circuit around here ???
I just have to say: There are some damn dirtbags in the spa business. >:( A crying shame that some of these buttburglers taint the industry as a whole.
Terminator
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Polar spas appeared on the market roughly 2 years ago locally. They offered a cash voucher program. Ads looked like this:
Price : $17,000
Discount: $6,000
Voucher Rebates: $6,000
Final Price: $5,000
You SAVE: $12,000
Well the vouchers became due just recently. Unfortunately, Polar spa has gone bankrupt. All of the suckers customers that purchased these tubs did not get their rebates and now have no warranty.
Luckily for the spa market around here, those fellas that were dealing those spas are now flogging Dynasty and doing the home show circuit around here ???
I heard this last year but as far as I can tell, all stores are still operating as Polar Spas. Are you expecting them to operate under the same name there?
This will be year 3 here in Edmonton for Polar as consumers are due for their "refunds". I'm curious to see how our murder rate increases... ;)
Steve
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Interesting. So Polar is still in business? They were advertising a big going out of business factory clearout here a few months ago.
Term, you said it!
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OK. So I just went on the Polar Spas site. They show 5 stores, 1 in BC, 2 in Alberta and 1 in Mississauga.
So I click on the Mississauga store. They have a 1-800 # (good, the boss won't get mad at me for running up the bill) I dial. Ring Ring. "Dynasty Spas"
So, how inept is the marketing team at Polar? Its not like they are managing a dealer locator of hundreds of dealers. There are 54 dealers. I would want my website linking to a competitors ??? :P
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Interesting...I just called the local store and asked if they are still selling Dynasty and Polar. He said yes and when I said that I heard Polar was out of business, he said that was never the case.
I went to the main Polar site and called the number in Crossfield Alberta listed on the site. It's still functional though they closed at 4:30... ::)
Mailing Address: 809 McCool St. Crossfield, AB. Canada TOM OSO Phone Number: (403) 946-3911
Hmmmmmmm ???
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BUT...I just saw an ad in a Toronto paper that the Mississauga Polar Spa's is having a 'going out of business sale'?
Games...
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Is it the manufacturer or just the individual dealer? I'm guessing the latter.
Steve
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wouldn't it be nice if the local markets that they swamped with sales because of the rebates offered suddenly had "reminder advertising" geared toward the customers? You know:
"Your 3 year wait is almost up, don't forget to dig out your receipts for your hot tub and get your several thousand dollar rebate!"
;D
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Did anyone get their money back?
Terminator
I dont know.
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Maybe I'm out to lunch here, but if you have an extra 10k kicking around to buy something as nonessential as a Spa, you've likely made a few wise financial decisions in life...
As well, it's gotta take a fairly slippery sales guy to push a product like that. Which is what put my flag up.
You would think that wouldn't you? But the fact is many people get scammed every year.
However you bring up an interesting point of "hottubs as a status symbol"
The fact that someone has a $10,000 hottub is no indication if they are $$ wise. It actually could be an indication of just the opposite. ::)
Think what a boat, timeshare, car, jetski, pools cost, or even the familly that spends $50,000.00 on an SUV when an $18000 one would do just as well. A hot tub can be considerably less. Do you think the guy down the road with the used bowrider boat or the 2nd hand motorcycle is a fiancial whiz?
Hot tubs seem to have some status symbol attatched to them, but I think as more and more tubs are sold, you find that they are becoming quite common place and are no longer exclusively an indulgence of the wealthy.
I know return you to your regualry schedule rant. ;D
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BUT...I just saw an ad in a Toronto paper that the Mississauga Polar Spa's is having a 'going out of business sale'?
Games...
So I guess the Mississauga store advertised going out of business..then they retained the phone # and staff and started selling Dynasty...