Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: FF681 on March 20, 2006, 10:57:23 pm
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New to the market. Research tells me to buy a major brand from a reputable dealer. My question is how do these two compare ( Hot Springs/Caldera)? I know they are both owned by Watkins. Both dealers are telling me that their brand is the premium of the two. They both look good to me.
Thanks.
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New to the market. Research tells me to buy a major brand from a reputable dealer. My question is how do these two compare ( Hot Springs/Caldera)? I know they are both owned by Watkins. Both dealers are telling me that their brand is the premium of the two. They both look good to me.
Thanks.
Call their claims a draw and wet test them to decide for yourself.
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They have many similarities and many differences. I would go with the one which has the seating and jets you like.
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I sure wish HS would use the Caldera jets that can be adjusted from normal to spinners. What a great idea.
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Both dealers are telling me that their brand is the premium of the two. They both look good to me.
Not trying to stir anything up, but is it reasonable for Caldera to claim "premium" over HS? Maybe I'm brainwashed, but I thought that it was accepted that HS was Watkins' "flagship" line, and the others (Caldera, Tiger River) were more economical/less frills........That was sort of how the Caldera rep I met presented it to me. He did not make it negative, he just pointed out that his spas were more affordable than HS. He also told me they were "better" but I'm not going there.........
;)
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Everyone's got the best tub out there......if you've narrowed down to these two, you're doing well, young Grasshopper.....get an idea which in each line you like...then test 'em with your butt.
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The advice to wet test them is very necessary for these two lines. They feel quite different. I owned a Caldera Geneva Utopia before my current HotSpring Envoy. Quality is about the same, but to me there is very little similarity beyond that. I strongly prefer the Caldera. But that is us, our preferences, our needs.
My wife and I were soaking in our Envoy early this morning and she was lamenting the missing bump in the floor that helped her stay anchored in the Geneva. The jets are more effective in the Caldera, too, and their lounger fits me better.
Now just to stir things up a little bit, there has been a great on-going debate about the efficacy of full filtration versus bypass filtration. The Envoy has the former, the Geneva the latter. No difference that I could detect or meausure using the same water treatment program. No difference at all. None. Nada. Bunch of BS as far as I am concerned.
Regards,
Bill
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No no no. HotSpring is by far the better tub.
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No no no. Caldera is by far the better tub.
;)
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Chas,
re "no, no, no..."
Since you sell both, that is easy for you to say.
Bill :)
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Yes. I can run a list of good features on both tubs - for starters there is the Moto Massage jet. But if that doesn't become your instant favorite, the jets in the Caldera tubs are wonderful - and can go from straight to spinner with the touch of a finger. And there are interchangable jets in both lines of spas.
Shall I bypass the filtration differences for now?
Pumps and control systems are the same, with some very tiny differences in the programming.
Both are comfortable, but use different approaches to the seating: Caldera uses a reverse-curve back and HS uses a lumbar-shaped back. Both use medical experts for help in locating the jets in the most benificial places. Be wary of promises that any tub is "Medically Approved" or "Designed in conjunction with leading medical experts," or my favorite: "We hired the same designer as X car company" to assure that our seats are ergonomically correct. HS/Caldera went to the doctors, chiropractors and other specialists and they all said the same thing: egonomically correct for who?
Very few couples who buy a tub are built exactly the same as each other, let alone the guy down the street.
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"Shall I bypass the filtration differences for now?"
Nicely put.
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The advice to wet test them is very necessary for these two lines. They feel quite different. I owned a Caldera Geneva Utopia before my current HotSpring Envoy. Quality is about the same, but to me there is very little similarity beyond that. I strongly prefer the Caldera. But that is us, our preferences, our needs.
My wife and I were soaking in our Envoy early this morning and she was lamenting the missing bump in the floor that helped her stay anchored in the Geneva. The jets are more effective in the Caldera, too, and their lounger fits me better.
Now just to stir things up a little bit, there has been a great on-going debate about the efficacy of full filtration versus bypass filtration. The Envoy has the former, the Geneva the latter. No difference that I could detect or meausure using the same water treatment program. No difference at all. None. Nada. Bunch of BS as far as I am concerned.
Regards,
Bill
Bill I'm just curious, you post many times you like the Caldera much better than the Envoy. Why didn't you buy the Caldera instead of the Envoy. You Said you strongly perfer the Caldera. It seem like that would be a no brainer even if it would require traveling a long distance to get the better fitting spa
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Jsimo7,
My Geneva went with the last house. The new house was ready and the Caldera dealer could not deliver a new Geneva on time, but the HS dealer could and did. At the time, I knew I liked the Geneva better, but felt that the Envoy was close enough. The Envoy is an excellent spa. The Geneva is too. This really is a personal preference thing. The quality of both is top notch. The price is about the same. You can't go wrong with either one.
Bill
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Both tubs are nice. A couple of things I noticed were:
Caldera:
1. Has raised piece in the bottom. Great for shorter people.
2. Many models have the Euphoria jet (very nice)
3. Slightly lower priced????
4. Has stronger jets because the nozzles are smaller. Can cause itch.
HS:
1. Has the Moto Massage
2. Different style waterfall
Need to wet test to find best model. I found some models I prefered Caldera other HS.
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Thanks for the input.
We have wet tested the HS Envoy and the Marquis Epic. We liked the Envoy best but it is borderline too deep for my wife (4' 11 1/2"). I am "crystal clear" that the wet test will be the deciding factor, I just want to make sure that I was still considering a premium spa brand with the Caldera. I don't want to buy a tubfull of problems.
Thanks again, it's great having this much experience at the click of a mouse.
FF681
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We wet tested the HotSpring Envoy and Caldera Geneva, both were nice products of similar quality, but both my wife and I strongly preferred the Geneva. I wrote a pretty long note on our thoughts (link below). Depth, pump power, jets, and controls were all big factors.
Someone mentioned controls were similar, but I would strongly disagree and go so far as to claim it is not even personal preference in this regard. Regarding this I had written:
Hotspring really needs to bring the full control panel into the tub. The main control panel is outside the tub, halfway down the front of the spa and impossible to see from in the tub unless you really hang out. You can't see the temp in the tub or adjust it (without of course reaching out).
With the main controls out of site, you are left with the in tub mini control panel. It has no display, offers few functions, and is awkward. For example, there is only one jets button which has to be pushed 6 times to cycle through all jet option. 1st push is pump 2 low, then pump 2 hi, then pump 1 hi + pump 2 hi, pump 1 hi and 2 low, then just pump 1 hi, then off. Couldn't they have added 1 more button for independent pump 1/2 control? Two of the four buttons on the in-tub control panel are for SpaAudio, which based on its ~1500 price, I imagine is a relatively rare option.
The Geneva's controls far surpassed the Envoys. First, the main control panel is "in" the tub. All functions can be accessed in the tub, and the screen is easily read in the tub (you can even invert the temp display). A secondary control panel is located on the opposite side of the tub and has individual Jets 1 and 2 buttons, lights, and a mode control button for stereo use. The mechanical controls on the Geneva also surpassed the Envoy. Aside from their ease of use, the diverters moved much more smoothly and were quiet. Even the air intake switches had a smooth and solid feel.
Having said this, I couldn't agree more with the standard advice of - the right tub is the one you like better after wet testing.
Full "review" here:
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1132890275;start=0
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Thanks for the input.
We have wet tested the HS Envoy and the Marquis Epic. We liked the Envoy best but it is borderline too deep for my wife (4' 11 1/2").
I hate to say it but any standard depth spa is going to be an issue for you wife since she's less than tall. Unless you go to a shallow spa (which will have a smaller footprint as well) I think you need to invest in a good spa booster seat (ask the dealers).