Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Brookenstein on March 14, 2006, 01:57:48 pm
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My water has been perfect since my water change on the first of Feb. I've still been on my 1st Nature 2 from about the first of Dec. Last night we had friends over and I wanted to show my friends husband the tub to help convince him he really needs one. When I lifted up the cover even in the dark I could tell it was kinda cloudy and I was surprised. When J and I got in it was a tiny bit foamy, but not the normal fluffy sudsy foamy a much firmer foam almost crunchy if that makes sense. I thought... hmm maybe the N2 wasn't working (I always wondered if it really made a difference and maybe this is what happens at the end). I decided to super chlorinate and added what I thought I was an assload of dichlor... nearly 3 TBS not tsp TBS.
I go out there this morning... in daylight the water looks like crap! I check my levels, there is NO, NONE, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA chlorine showing on my test strips... so I think maybe my test strips are bad. I tested my tap water and they worked (meaning the colors changed somewhat)... so I added dichlor to tap water and they changed a lot. I've had residual chlorine left the next day after adding less than a TBS so I can't for the life of me understand why there is nothing today.
I went down to Leslies and had the water checked... everything is perfect
PH 7.6
TA 90
CH 240
TDS 700
except I have a high CYA of 100 (ideal is 30-50). He said I need to drain as there is nothing I can do to bring it down. He also doesn't know why it got high. Does anyone know anything about CYA? Do you agree? Thanks.
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Isn't that a stabilizer? I think it is used in pools to stabilize the chlorine, not really an issue in tubs?
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It's an acid. It is used as a stabilizer added to both Dichlor and Trichlor. I understand it helps agisnt UV burning off the chlorine.
I also understand once it's in the tub, you need to drain, or at least do a partial drain out.
Are you using dichlor as your sanitizer? Are you using Dichlor as a shock as well? Switching to MPS may help slow the amount of CYA in the water.
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I recently spoke to Wayne from Taylor Test kits about the use of DI Chor for your spa sanitizer and he shared with me the only draw back was each time you add it you are going to increase your CYA levels and that regular water changes are must when using it.
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I recently spoke to Wayne from Taylor Test kits about the use of DI Chor for your spa sanitizer and he shared with me the only draw back was each time you add it you are going to increase your CYA levels and that regular water changes are must when using it.
With Trichlor there is much more CYA due to the sunlight the pool sees there is a need to teh CYA as a stabilizer. I'm not sure why the CYA would be that high that soon after a water change in a spa.
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Isn't that a stabilizer? I think it is used in pools to stabilize the chlorine, not really an issue in tubs?
CYA (cyanuric acid) is a component of dichlor. It builds very slowly so seeing a sudden change like Brookenstein's wouldn't be expected.
Brook, were both the free chlorine and combined chlorine zero? How old is your water?
My guess is that you haven't been in the tub for several days and the meanies grew in the meantime. Sure seems like your chlorine readings would have shown something the next day but maybe all the free chlorine was used to fight the meanies. If you are close to a water change, git'r'done. If you are not, try another dose of chlorine with some clarifier, scooping the yucky foam and rinsing the filters afterwards. Then run the filters a little longer--should work.
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The water was changed out on the first of Feb. I use dichlor after use, shock weekly with MPS. I had used the MPS to shock last week, can't remember if it was Wed or Mon. I was switching which days I do my routine on. We use the tub every single night, but I do not test the water daily as my levels are perfect every time I test (weekly) and my water has looked sparkling perfet 9 out of 10 times I look at it and almost perfect on that other day.
I'm thinking about rinsing my filters today, adding some MPS, adding a few inches of water, rinsing filter again tomorrow, and then re-evalluate what the water looks like tomorrow. I really don't want to change out the water this early if I don't have to. We are in the middle of tiling the bathroom and our bodies hurt... I don't want to lose the tub for a day. The 2 minutes of research I did said that levels over 100 definately need a water drain, but under that may be ok...
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hey brook, perhaps a suggestion. I am not sure how old the tub is but maybe you can consider giving one fill up the chance of bromine.
I use bromine and get 4 to 6 months with my water. Ifthe CYA is a problem of dichlor, perhaps try a change up and see how you like it.
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With Trichlor there is much more CYA due to the sunlight the pool sees there is a need to teh CYA as a stabilizer. I'm not sure why the CYA would be that high that soon after a water change in a spa.
I was also surprised but he shared with me it came down to use and gallons of your spa and shared with me a formula to calculate when your water should be changed I am not at the store so I can not post here now but will later.
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I decided to super chlorinate and added what I thought I was an assload of dichlor... nearly 3 TBS not tsp TBS.
Check with your doctor, but I doubt this is recommended.
Your right, you can't bring down CYA. It isn't unusual to get cloudy once in awhile. I find the mega dose of MPS clears it faster than a shock of Dichlor. With a PH of 7.6, I might recommend Sea Klear MPS. You can use 1/2 the amount and get the same results as other MPS brands. Most brands such as RENEW are buffered so they don't affect your PH level. If you look at the ingredients and it says "46% inert materials, yours is buffered. I frequently add 2 ounces of Sea Klear where I would have to add 4 ounces of Renew and that usually clears cloudy water. I would guestimate that it would probably drop your PH to 7.4, but that is still well in the good range.
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Check with your doctor, but I doubt this is recommended.
I wasn't planning to get back into the tub until the level of chlornine was into normal areas... I thought most people who shocked with chlorine used 2-3 TBS to shock, so I thought what I did was within the normal range. For us, just about 3/4 of a TBS is the usual after use dose.
Is there such thing as a false high CYA reading?
So I guess my question is... can I use the tub tonight and drain tomorrow? The pool store sold me a 25' rubber hose thingy to help with the drain, but I'm not sure what to do with it... there is nothing on it at all, nothing to hook it to anything? Can I connect it to the normal drain plug with a zip tie?
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Checking with the doctor was a joke that didn't come accross right referring to your unit of measurement. ;D
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Bill,
I am glad to see you using Sea Klear as it the shock we carry. I think it offers the best value....We also recommend their 4 in 1 clairfer....I understand both their filter clean and defoamer are great but on the pricey side so at this point we have passed on them......have you tried any of their other products.......
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Bill,
I am glad to see you using Sea Klear as it the shock we carry. I think it offers the best value....We also recommend their 4 in 1 clairfer....I understand both their filter clean and defoamer are great but on the pricey side so at this point we have passed on them......have you tried any of their other products.......
The Sea Klear is great unless you are always having to struggle with low PH, which I rarely am. If I see the clarifier I will try it. As for the Filter cleaner, I have seen several brands and they all seem to either be a purple or yellow color, and I find they both work, but the yellow is easier to rinse out. As for the defoamer, I have has the same stuff, which I tranferred to a spray bottle, for 2 years now ,I don't use it enough to use it up and try anything else.
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I go out there this morning... in daylight the water looks like crap! I check my levels, there is NO, NONE, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA chlorine showing on my test strips... so I think maybe my test strips are bad. I tested my tap water and they worked (meaning the colors changed somewhat)... so I added dichlor to tap water and they changed a lot. I've had residual chlorine left the next day after adding less than a TBS so I can't for the life of me understand why there is nothing today.
I went down to Leslies and had the water checked... everything is perfect
PH 7.6
TA 90
CH 240
TDS 700
except I have a high CYA of 100 (ideal is 30-50). He said I need to drain as there is nothing I can do to bring it down. He also doesn't know why it got high. Does anyone know anything about CYA? Do you agree? Thanks.
Don't worry about your CYA levels until they are DOUBLE where they are now.
I see the results of the test Leslie's did, but I don't see a chlorine reading.
Did they give you one?
Without knowing that, I suspect that your massive dose of chlorine is now bleaching your test strips.
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The first guy agreed and said there was no chlorine, he called over somebody else and he looked under the special light and he put it at 1 -1.5. Still not what I would expect 10 hours later.
The water looks to me like it is clearing up a little. I think I may see what I can do with it and try and buy me another few weeks. We go on vacation in mid April and I wanted to change it when we got back cause I figured it would got heck when we were gone.
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okay, I read this in another post somewhere, so if it doesn't work, don't shoot the messenger.....
Take one cup of your spa water and 2 cups of tap water....mix together and try for chlorine reading....if there's WAY too much in the tub, this should diliute it enough to at least let you know if the strips are bleaching out.
If you get a reading, multiply by 3 to figure out what your actual chlorine count should be...I THINK that's what it all said......makes some sense to me, anyhow.
Good luck!
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Ok, the plot thickens...
I went out to check the filters. I cleaned the filters last week. It had been an entire month since I cleaned them and they were barely dirty. Anyway, I just took them out, the one on the circ pump is nasty all others were clean... I'm going to rinse it real good and then run it in the dishwasher.
When I'm done I will try what you suggested Tat.
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aww crap.....now I'm making sense to OTHER people....time for me to up my meds...... ;)
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Don't worry about your CYA levels until they are DOUBLE where they are now.
I see the results of the test Leslie's did, but I don't see a chlorine reading.
Did they give you one?
Without knowing that, I suspect that your massive dose of chlorine is now bleaching your test strips.
I agree. Don't worry about the high CYA right now. You should be able to get three to four months out of your water. The high CYA isn't going to hurt your water in any way...it reduces the effectiveness of chlorine a little. I suspect you need to bump up the filtering time until your cloudy water clears after your super dose of dichlor.
Although CYA is not needed at all for a covered spa, dichlor is almost half by volume. In such a small body of water, it is almost impossible to keep CYA levels down. It is one of the reasons I prefer shocking with non chlorine shock. Your water should come back around. I don't think you need to drain. Three tbls dichlor is a lot. One tbls gets my free chlorine level up over 5 ppm in almost 500 gallon spa.
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I did the method Tat suggested... well sort of, I did it from memory and did it 1:1 and nothing happened. I came here to write results and saw it was suppose to be 1:2 solution so I added more tap water and retested. While there still wasn't enough color to make a reading per se, I could see a tiny hint of color, where as before there was no color at all... so I think you guys are on to something.
Couple questions...
Is it safe to assume the reading is much higher than a) what I got on the test strips 0 and b) the 1.5 that the guy got with the Taylor test strips? Should I not use the tub tonight or is it safe levels to use? I've had the cover off a lot today.... hoping to help disipate it. I'm assuming I should wait a while to add the MPS, but if i use it tonight, do I still add my normal amount of dichlor or should I use a small amount of MPS prior to use for a few days instead? Any suggestions until I get this a little squared away. Will my chlorine readings eventually get to normal with this high CYA??? I'm assuming I sorta have 2 or more seperate issues going on now. I don't want to start micromanaging the water now.
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Chlorine stabilizer or conditioner (cyanuric acid) is used, in outdoor chlorine-maintained swimming pools, as a means of helping to protect the chlorine from being destroyed by the Sun's ultra-violet rays. This helps the chlorine last longer and reduces consumption. The level of cyanuric acid is easily determined by a simple chemical test. In northern areas, a range of 20-40 PPM is considered ideal. In sunbelt areas, a level of 40-80 PPM, is recommended for pools not utilizing a stabilized form of chlorine. Levels between 80-150 PPM are above the ideal, but are not considered to be a problem. Higher levels, especially over 150 PPM, are thought to reduce the effectiveness of the chlorine and may require the maintenance of somewhat higher chlorine levels. Every time a stabilized chlorine is added, some cyanuric acid is contributed to the water. The only means of lowering the cyanuric acid level is to replace water.