Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: kayaknva on March 07, 2006, 05:05:52 pm
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Hello again. Hoping you guys/gals can help me out here. After I get out of my spa I seem to get little bumps that are very ichy, I'm guessing 'hot tub rash'. I googled it and searched on this forum and don't see a real answer except 'staying out of it for 7 days' and maybe changing chemicals. When I bought my spa I got the leisure time start up kit with the bromine so I have stayed with that. We have had it about 2 months and the first 45 days I didn't have any problems at all. I had a problem with the bromine level(too high) at certain times trying to figure it out with the renew.
Tell me what I'm doing wrong.
Here is my weekly routine(all leisure time):
Enzyme
Bright and Clear
Defender
Renew
Clean filter once a month
We take showers before we get in everytime and I'm thinking I might need to take one when I get out. The water is crystal clear (but what Ive read on here thats nothing). I got the bumps on my arms a week ago, stayed out for another week and got in last night and here we go again, but worse. I am to the point to where I am going to drain the spa this weekend, clean it with clorox(?) and try again. Just don't know what I did wrong for it to do this. Should I try clorine instead of bromine?
Very irritating(in a few ways) that I just dropped this kind of cash and I can't use it.
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks again!
Steve
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You dropped all of this cash and can't use it, but you are using it, you just need to sanitize it properly. Test for the presence of a sanitizer before you get in. If you are getting a rash it seems that proper water chemistry is the problem that needs to be reviewed, it is not the fault of the product.
I realize that this may be frustrating, but until you get the hang of it. More importantly, you need to get a routine that works for you, do you have ozone on the spa?
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I'm not blaming the spa at all(I realize it's my doing, thats why I'm asking :)) I love it and it is an amazing product(no tylenol pm since we got it!). I probably check my water too much, and definitely before I get in everytime. Yes I have ozone, maybe I need a better testing method other than the strips.
Thanks for the reply!
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If you feel you are testing too much, you probably are being too anal about water balance, and this is not uncommon to new users, but the itch could be from lack of sanitizer or at least it seems so. You might try some di-chlor.
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kaya..
The same thing is happening to me. Here is what I use.
- ozonator
- mineral stick
- activiate - 2 oz after each use, 4 oz shock weekly
Water is very clear and feels right. I test every 2 days for pH, mps & TA. Occasionally I may have to raise the pH a little but that's all.
We may be doing everything right but we could be allergic to the chemicals we’re using.
I found that showering after I get out stops all the itching. If that doesn’t’ help and you are sure you’re doing the chemicals correctly, maybe you need to change to a different system. If you do, you will need to start with a clean tub and fresh water.
Good luck.
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Same thing happens to me, especially if I use the spa a lot - I've cured the problem by moisturizing every day.
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Same thing here,, moisturize is importain when you soak daily i've found out....
I did not change any chemicals...
i would try the easy thing first.... if that doesn't help see the doc..
good luck
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We just went through the same thing. Drained and re-filled, problem was solved.
Some people just react differently to various chemicals. Keep trying until you find one that works best for you.
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It sounds to me like You may be having a reaction/rash to the chemicals.
I would stay out of the tub and let the rash clear up and your skin heal. A drain and refill seems like a logical place to start.
The primary thing I would look at is the Bromine level and ensure this is not too high. If it is the bromine, making sure the levels are kept in check might aleviate the rash, or you might consider switching to dichlor.
Out of curiosity:
How "old" is the current water in the tub?
How often is the tub used?
Are you checking the levels before you are getting in? Do you know what you are soaking in?
I ask, as I personally think you've got a lot of chems going into the tub on a weekly basis; bromine, enzimes, Bright and clair, defender, MPS. That seems like a lot and you may also consider backing off on your routine a bit. ?
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The water in the tub is 2 months old. I'm a noob with water balance as I have never had a pool, tub, etc. I add the chemicals per the manual I got with the tub (leisure time). Well there for the first 45 days we used it everyday, but shower first. I check the levels before I get in everytime and everything seems to be right on, except sometimes the bromine level is high. I have had a hard time mastering that. I go from way too much bromine to none, then renew and bromine again(floater). I have got the hang of it better, the bromine level changes so quickly. The tub itself is only 2 months old and has the oz. Maybe I should knock the weekly routine to bi weekly and only shock weekly?
If I were to go the di chlor route, do I need to drain and start over?
Thanks
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You're definitely not alone...
I have sensitive skin and found that even with new and perfectly treated water my back sometimes feels itchy after I get out. For me, using a moisturizer after leaving the spa is the key.
P.S. I use a dichlor system
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I would shock the spa intensely with chlorine (2-4 oz), run it with the cover off for at least two hours at 104 degrees (some bacteria is more active at higher temp).
This will eliminate anything that could be a bacteria problem...
Drain the spa, clean the filters, wipe down all surfaces including the underside of the cover with a solution of water/Clorox mixed 3:1 ratio.
When your done refill, adjust Alkalinity the add only the sanitizer. Try the spa a few days like that and see how you react...then start adding the other chems one at a time with intervals of at least 2 days between seeing how you react.
I also found a wonderful new product called "Silken" that BioLab made for bromine spas. You add it at drain/refill and it will help a lot with dry skin, balance and odor.
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Stuarts got a good plan of attack.
I'd also take the floater out of your tub during soaks. and out it back in when you are done. No need to be sitting in a bromine bath, esp if it is the bromine that's causing the rash.
Duffman, the itch back could that be from air jets? Those things make my skin itch. ???
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OK, sounds like a plan for the weekend. You say add chlorine to shock it. I am a little confused whether or not I can add chlorine to my bromine system. My renew is non chlorine, as you know. Should I go out and get the clorine (di-chlor?) and stay away from the present bromine system or is it OK to add the chlorine in the present bromine spa state? Not sure the mixing of the two will mess anything up.
Thanks
PS: I do take the floater out of the tub before we get in everytime ???
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I would take the floater out...Adding Chlorine to the system is fine.
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Duffman, the itch back could that be from air jets? Those things make my skin itch. ???
Yeah. me too. Put the itch goes away as soon as the air is turned off.
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I would take the floater out...Adding Chlorine to the system is fine.
So I'm a little confused, since I just read this from Tony on the "New Tub" thread:
" If switching from bromine to chlorine, you must drain, clean and fill because adding chlorine only recharges the bromine. The only way to be sure it doesn't stay a bromine tub is to get rid of all the bromine.
You can switch from dichlor to bromine anytime. Bromine tabs are part chlorine, anyway."
So it is ok to add chlorine to a bromine tub, but if you want to switch from bromine to chlorine as your MAIN sanitizer, you have to change the water? Seems odd to me- just trying to clarify
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So I'm a little confused, since I just read this from Tony on the "New Tub" thread:
" If switching from bromine to chlorine, you must drain, clean and fill because adding chlorine only recharges the bromine. The only way to be sure it doesn't stay a bromine tub is to get rid of all the bromine.
You can switch from dichlor to bromine anytime. Bromine tabs are part chlorine, anyway."
So it is ok to add chlorine to a bromine tub, but if you want to switch from bromine to chlorine as your MAIN sanitizer, you have to change the water? Seems odd to me- just trying to clarify
Yes. Re-read the last sentence of your 2nd paragraph.
"The only way to be sure it doesn't stay a bromine tub is to get rid of all the bromine."
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So I'm a little confused, since I just read this from Tony on the "New Tub" thread:
" If switching from bromine to chlorine, you must drain, clean and fill because adding chlorine only recharges the bromine. The only way to be sure it doesn't stay a bromine tub is to get rid of all the bromine.
You can switch from dichlor to bromine anytime. Bromine tabs are part chlorine, anyway."
So it is ok to add chlorine to a bromine tub, but if you want to switch from bromine to chlorine as your MAIN sanitizer, you have to change the water? Seems odd to me- just trying to clarify
In simplified terms Bromine is DiChlor with a salt base to stabilize it in hot water so that it will stay in. If I'm out of bromine I use Chlorine and visa verse.
The big issue is the nature 2....Bromine will blow the silver in that and make it not effective.
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So it is ok to add chlorine to a bromine tub, but if you want to switch from bromine to chlorine as your MAIN sanitizer, you have to change the water? Seems odd to me- just trying to clarify
You have clarification, that is 100% accurate. It may seem odd to you but if you get into the detail you'd understand it.
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Well, went by the my dealer and they agreed with stuart and everyone proposing di-clor. She sold me the di-clor and the mineral purifier for the filter. Do I have to put in any additional chemicals other than the di-chlor? If so, it seems alot easier than the bromine technique. Thanks for all the help and hopefully this will do it.
Thanks again
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I also found a wonderful new product called "Silken" that BioLab made for bromine spas. You add it at drain/refill and it will help a lot with dry skin, balance and odor.
I also tried the silken my last water change and I did notice a soft feeling to the water. I have a chlorine tub.
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I use a product called EZ Spa that balances and softens the water and works with diclor.
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When my wife first got 'the itch' what we did was empty the tub and fill it up with gasoline. One match and that sucker was spotless, somewhat. Then we hosed it down with paint thinner and milk. Then we soaked the whole tub in olive oil and BBQ sauce. Then we scoured it with thinned rubber cement and Fruit Punch. After finally rinsing the jets and skimmer with Vanilla Extract and egg yolks (very important to seperate the whites! you don't want anything looking like that in your tub!) it looked clean enough to refill and try again*.
My recent experience? Moderate your bromine and shock. That's powerful stuff and you may notice your rash gets worse after such an aggressive weekly treatment. I've found lowering the flow on the dispenser and shocking every 10 days or slightly more is adequate, depending on usage.
I said to our Dealer just recently that i wanted a 'Perfect Water' Certificate like the ones on his wall. He said, "Those are for Pools!, I haven't had a perfect water score in 18 months in any Hot Tub! And I monitor the Floor Models daily, as a hobby and a challenge and it's always off somewhere." And he has the full chemical lab right there!
That when i realized it was just water. And unless you put your head under for 10 minutes it won't kill you. I could be wrong - but everything nowadays is about company cashflow and repeat purchases: from light bulbs, to gasoline, to batteries, to Swifters�, to cable service, to spa chemicals. Don't believe the hype is all. Mellow and relax with the chem bath - make it more like water again.
*Some residue may remain.
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I was doing some web research on dermatology and itchy skin. It was common to see hot tubs as a significant contributor to itch for those with sensitive skin. As an example, here's a excerpt from an itchy skin article: http://www.yourskindoctor.com/itchy_skin.html
Lubrication: Immediately after showering and towel drying, while the skin is still damp, moisturizers should be applied. Ideally, moisturizers should be applied twice daily. If a rash is present, a topical non-steroid anti-inflammatory lotion or cortisone cream is used before the moisturizing cream or lotion. Generally speaking, the thicker the moisturizer, the more effective it is for severely dry skin. Moisturizing creams or lotions are preferred over oils to moisturize the skin. Lastly, avoid moisturizers with strong perfume smells, as this is a source for irritation to many people.
1) Avoid bubble baths.
2) Do not allow the furnace or car heater to blow directly on your skin. The hot dry air can make your condition worse.
3) If you live in a dry climate, consider a humidifier or vaporizer in your bedroom. If you have baseboard heating, try a large pan of water next to your bed.
Avoid applications of alcohol, astringents, drying lotions or powders to your skin. They can be overly drying.
4) Avoid hot tubs or spas. The hot chlorinated water will strip away every bit of natural oil from your skin. It may be soothing at the time, but can make the symptoms worse later.
5) Finally, a counter-stimulant such as a mentholated cream or lotion is very soothing to the skin. It is important to understand that this is a recurrent condition. Itch symptoms may return without daily care.
Successful treatment of itching skin requires daily maintenance. If your skin does not clear with conservative measures, you should consult your dermatologist, as itchy skin can be the first sign of other medical conditions
No way am I going to "avoid" my hot tub, but the article does mirror a common recommendation to replace the oils that are "stripped away" by the hot tub through daily moisturization.
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I've had my share of "itchy" after using the spa. It is usually associated with too high bromine levels or "old" water - too many chemicals in the water.
I have moderately dry and sensitive skin. We keep the bromine level fairly low since we have ozone - and shock to remove build up. So far - no skin issues this time. (former problems were with old spa that was recently replaced)
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Aveeno, that's the ticket for dry skin and if you apply it when your skin is still warm and moist from the spa, it works even better!
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Well, went by the my dealer and they agreed with stuart and everyone proposing di-clor. She sold me the di-clor and the mineral purifier for the filter. Do I have to put in any additional chemicals other than the di-chlor? If so, it seems alot easier than the bromine technique. Thanks for all the help and hopefully this will do it.
Thanks again
I think you will be very happy with the dichlor and mineral purifier system for your spa. The difference is that you will be soaking in chem free water. The downside is you have to add dichlor when you get out of the spa. You need to get yourself a good routine and I suggest (as many do) to go to www.rhtubs.com, get to the forum and look for the FAQ section (I think it is on the bottom). In the FAQ, read both Vermonter's and Northman's routines. They are quite complete and accurate and will give you a good understanding of how to maintain your spa from two slightly different perspectives.