Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: SurgTec on March 03, 2006, 07:00:22 pm
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Greetings!
I am the proud (and happy) owner of a Marquis Quest for approximately a month now.
:)I've been keeping up with testing the water daily and all the 'levels' (hardness, bromine, ph, and alkalinity) are within "ok" range (test strips). I've rinsed the filters out and used a 'clarify' product. My system runs 2 - 2 hour filtration cycles every 24 hours plus a 1 hour 'clean up' after each use (or any running of the jets - such as when adding any chemicals). The water in the spa has persisted in being a slightly milky color. No oders, no skin reaction when using the spa - just not very pleasing to look at. Any suggestions folks? ??? ???
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Have you shocked the water? I don't see that in your routine.
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I've shocked once with a regular dose and 24 hours later with a 'super dose' - both times followed by using clarify product. Have I overdone it? :-[
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I am by no means the one to be telling you what to do because I am usually on here looking for the same kind of help too. But here goes from my 3 months of experience...
I think that we probably have the same set up, as I have a Marquis Epic. So do you use Bromine in the infamous frog system? If so, have you changed the cartridge lately? I have only used the clarifying product when I start up with new water, so I can't really tell you if you have added too much but I am guessing that you thought the cloudiness is from particles, not bacteria.
When my tub gets cloudy (as it has done several times), I find that it will take a couple of days to completely clear up again. I generally try to be sure my ph and all are in range and then shock the heck out of the tub.
If you do that, leave your cover off for a little while, and I go around and open all my jets to be sure the super chlorinated (brominated) water goes into each jet. In my past experience, I end up with a lot of foam that seems to disappear when the tub clears us again. Hopefully some one else will hop on here clarify all of this. I know how upsetting it is to open that beautiful tub to find a cloudy mess.... :-[
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I've read a lot of posts saying that clarifiers and defoamers add a lot to the TDS, and should be used sparingly....I don't know if your manufacturer has anything on their site to help with water issues, but I recall seeing something on that order on the Hot Spring site....it covers different issues (cloudy water included) and some of the ways to help fix the problems.....
Best of luck!
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Thank you ladies for your kind assistance! :) I will try shocking the dickens out of my tub this weekend - but I suspect that I've reached chemical overload.
My bromine level is fine - and the cartridge in the "frog" seems to have bromine still in it.
I've read in other posts that a "new" spa needs its first water change earlier than the 'average' three months. Perhaps I just need to accept that.
The Marquis site offers no information on water treatment. My dealer is very laid back - I've found much more helpful information here. I'll check out the info on the Hot Springs site - Tattooed_Lady - thanks.
Bonibelle - since you have a Marquis spa also - I've followed your threads with great interest. This may be distressing to 'deal' with in our beautiful new tubs - but it beats stressing about a crappy day at work!
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Isn't it so cool that somehow all that stress from work disappears when you hit that tub... ?) Check out the printout on the frog on the post by Markee....that may help us both!
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Sounds like you've got good advise here. Cloudy water can mean many things. Most times it happens because of lack of sanitizer. Now, we know you shocked twice. Is it part of your regular weekly routine. Too much clarifier will have the opposite reaction and make water cloudy.
Sometimes the best shock for a cloudy bromine spa is dichlor. Then increase your filter cycles until it clears up. Maybe double them. You may just have not given it enough time.
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I shocked again this morning - and let the jets run on high for 10 min. before letting the 'clean up' cycle take over (filtration for 1 hour after any jet use). The water does look better - but still not 'sparkling' clear.
I didn't know that about the clarifier - that too much can cloud water - Oh Nooooo!
I changed out my filters (I have a second set to make it an easy switch) and tested the chemistry. Water hardness, bromine, Ph, and TA are all in the "ok" ranges.
Guess I'll try lengthening the 'clean up' cycle time from 1 hour to 2 - with the two filtration cycles of 2 hours twice a day that will make 6 hours of filtration a day for a 340 gallon spa - that is used by 2 persons 3 to 4 times a week!
Thanks for all the advice - any and all comments welcome! I'm going to check out the info on water quality from Hot Springs and the info on spa frogs from King Technologies - so I'm really trying to "do my homework" ;D
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If I were you I would dump out the water and start over. For some reason new owners with new spas seem to have this problem. This also happened to me the first time.
I believe Chas on this site recommends changing out the water after the first month or so. Correct me if I'm wrong Chas. Water is the cheapest thing you can buy for your spa. Just my two cents.
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Gomboman -
I've read that - dump the water after the first month... I'm going to give it one more week - then I agree = water is cheap.
I figure it is probably a matter of too much micromanagement of the water that got me into this - if I'd left well enough alone - good tub, good sanitizer, ozone, good schedule for filtration and cleaning... it would have been fine.... but Nooooo - I had to test every day and add a little of this, a little of that..... and here I am with cloudy water!
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I believe that Chas philosophy will work best here. Sounds like you may have been a little to keen on your chemical maitenance and over did it. Very common, just keep a log and keep an eye on it for the first little bit and eventually you will get it down to a science.
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So hard to find the balance between TOO vigilent about chemical balance and NOT enough!
Also - usage of brand new spa is higher than 'average' usage - so even more variables to consider!
Question - is it a good idea to 'shock' after every soak?
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I recorded everything down for the first 2 months. I found that due to "the newness" which translates to soaking about 3 times a day, I shocked 1 tablespoon for each bather after every use. This worked for me. once reality tub useage kicked in, I found that shock once a week was more than enough.
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Wow- and I thought I was an obsessive compulsive! I haven't written everything down - now wish I had! :-[
I'm hoping to have a 'spa christening' party in early April - so I've got to get all the chemistry down before then - I can't show off a cloudy spa!
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I have become so obsessed with getting this thing right, I have posted a white board by the door to the spa. I keep a log on there of what I am doing since my water change. I am trying to figure out some sort of pattern because I too, tend to over manage. With all the help on here, Surgtec, we are bound to get things right sooner or later ;D
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Repeat after me, "There's no shame in dumping, there's no shame in dumping."
;)
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Repeat after me, "There's no shame in dumping, there's no shame in dumping."
;)
Thats what I told my daughter about her last boyfriend.
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We were advised to add one tablespoon Chlorine or two tablespoons of (I think this is the right word - I know which bottle but am too lazy to go check) Ozone to the filter area ten minutes prior to each use - and run the jets... then get in... what do you guys think of that advice? This was advice from the dealer. Seemed like this guy knew his stuff...
Just looking for input on that approach.
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Chas & wmmccall - LOL!! ;D ;D
I will probably dump the water if no success after today - the water is slightly less cloudy and the 'levels' are all within norms - so I can still soak. I don't want to dump today cause I want to soak tonight - and once I dump and refill it will be several hours before the water is back up to temp (even on a 240, 50 amp circuit).
I like the idea of the "whiteboard" by the spa to keep track on. ::)
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When you get to be an "old hand" at it, you'll check your water once per week and adjust if necessary.
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OK OK..I'm not bragging , but this morning
My water was perfect..and bromine in the ideal range.
This is a first for me and just confirms that the water change was the ticket. ;) Surget, if you get an early start, you will be amazed at how fast your tub recovers.
I was going to post this on the ff, experiment but didn't want to create another variable in this controversial study. I did a fast empty and super fast clean up of my tub (temps in the 30's make me work really fast in bare feet!). I put my cover on and put the hose in the tub. When my water was full enought to turn my pumps on, the water temperature was 55 degrees. I have well water and I know it comes out of the spigot between 43 and 45 degrees. (my first fill triggered the freeze warning thing) I attribute the 55 degree water temp to the retention of heat by my ff tub.....No science here just an observation ;D
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Oh, boy......Boni's gonna stir up trouble again........
Boni, congrats on having clear water, now KEEP IT THAT WAY!! ;D ;) No shame in dumping, and less is more....cha cha cha.......
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We were advised to add one tablespoon Chlorine or two tablespoons of (I think this is the right word - I know which bottle but am too lazy to go check) Ozone to the filter area ten minutes prior to each use - and run the jets... then get in... what do you guys think of that advice? This was advice from the dealer. Seemed like this guy knew his stuff...
Just looking for input on that approach.
The word you are looking for is MPS or non chlorine shock. You must also have an ozonator, because you mention ozone. I am speculating that you are using a mineral cartridge of some sort because of the advise of the dealer.
If all of the above is so, then the advice seems OK, but I think you need to educate yourself to see the options. Most of us dichlor dosers (chlorine) add after use so the water gets sanitized and we are not sitting in chems. A tablespoon sounds like a lot, but maybe OK for the number of people in the spa. It more has to do with your tub demand as to how much dichlor you add. Your free chlorine level should be over 2 ppm after you add.
If you are just using non chlorine shock (MPS), then you must certainly have a mineral cartridge. You add this before you use the spa. Add chlorine if the water gets cloudy and with either system shock once per week with dichlor or MPS.
I suggest going over to www.rhtubs.com, get to the forum and look at the top or bottom for FAQ. There are two routines that are very helpful and informative for sanitizing with chlorine... Vermonters and Northmans. They get right into the nitty gritty of it all without having to reproduce it here. Also, check out the Nature2 site if you are interested in using just non chlorine shock (though I don't recommend). The more you learn, the better equipped you will be to maintain you spa.
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I "micro-managed" the water myself when I got my first tub. I dumbed it down and change the water every 30-45 days
Since this practice, I have NEVER had a water issue.
Since water is so cheap, and this only takes about one hour, for me it is simple and lets me enjoy the spa and not worry about water chemistry.
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YEAH!!!! ;D ;D ;D
When I got home from work today (after 4 hours OT) - I check in on my "baby" - and all the levels were great and (wait for it.......)
THE WATER WAS CLEAR!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I guess a little patience and trusting to good filtration / chemical routine pays off!!
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YEAH!!!! ;D ;D ;D
When I got home from work today (after 4 hours OT) - I check in on my "baby" - and all the levels were great and (wait for it.......)
THE WATER WAS CLEAR!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I guess a little patience and trusting to good filtration / chemical routine pays off!!
Great to hear, another 400 gallons of water or so saved. I'm not sure how you got the water back in good shape but my motto is; when cloudiness gets you down, rinse the filter quickly, hammer it with chlroine, let it run open for 20 minutes, close the cover and come back 24 hrs later and it usually has cleared up.
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Steps taken that led to water clearing up:
1. Shock treating - I had to repeat several days (normal dosage - 'run in' for 15 min.
2. Increase filtration time - my 'clean up cycle' was increased from 1 to 2 hours, plus the 2 hours twice a day standard filtration
3. Bromine and alkalinity levels kept in limits with testing and minor adjustments.
4 . filter cartridges rinsed out and replaced
What DIDNT work:
1. Checking the water more than once in a 24 hour period.
2. Dumping shock and water clarify agent in the spa at the same time.
3. Making what is supposed to be a relaxing, enjoyable retreat into another thing to "stress" about in my life ::)
Lesson learned - less is more and enjoy!
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Surgtec,
FWIW, even though you are using Bromine we always advise bromine users to shock with chlorine when they have a water clarity issue. Those bromine tabs are about 30% chlorine anyway and usually kicking in a few TBS of dichlor does the trick.
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I didn't know that about the clarifier - that too much can cloud water - Oh Nooooo!
Glad to hear the water is clear. :)
Cairfier clouding the water? I've never had that problem. Causing foam? Oh yea. Don't brush off the claifiers too easyly. Used correctly. I've gotten good results.