Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: nicksd on March 02, 2006, 03:23:54 pm

Title: Have you seen this article
Post by: nicksd on March 02, 2006, 03:23:54 pm
Whirlpool baths: enter at your own risk By Megan Rauscher
Thu Mar 2, 10:46 AM ET



NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Better think twice before soothing those aching muscles in a whirlpool bath or hot tub. A new study shows that whirlpool bathtubs can be a breeding ground for a host of disease-causing bacteria.

Dr. Rita B. Moyes a microbiologist at Texas A & M University tested 43 water samples from both private and public whirlpool bathtubs. "Every tub tested had some kind of microbial growth," she told Reuters Health.

"And I was just getting the few organisms I was testing for, so it is probably just the tip of the iceberg as far as what is really present. Also, I did no viral testing," Moyes emphasized.

In 95 percent of the tubs, bacteria derived from feces were present, while 81 percent had fungi and 34 percent contained potentially deadly staphylococcus bacteria.

Moyes explained that a teaspoon of normal tap water contains about 138 bacteria and many samples are bacteria-free. A teaspoon of whirlpool tub water, on the other hand, contains an average of more than 2 million bacteria.

The interior pipes of whirlpool baths that are not filtered or chemically treated, and non-maintained hot tubs, are prime areas for potentially infectious microbes to congregate and grow, Moyes noted. These organisms often form a biofilm - a community of organisms, which work together and are more resistant to cleaners.

When the jets are switched on, the bacteria-packed water gets blown into the tub. "Due to the movement of the water, an aerosol is created that carries these organisms down into your lungs or other orifices - something that doesn't happen in a regular tub," Moyes explained.

The bacteria found in whirlpool baths can lead to a number of diseases, including urinary tract infections, skin infections, and pneumonia.

So who is most at risk? "Of course the young and the old and the immunocompromised should not be exposed, including breathing in the aerosol from outside the tub," Moyes said.

"A chemically maintained hot tub should not be a problem to a healthy person but if you are having recurring infections, consider the tub as a potential source," she added. Moyes' research is published in an online journal called PM Engineer.

Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: nm-tn on March 02, 2006, 03:30:39 pm
I just read that too.  :o
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on March 02, 2006, 03:33:15 pm
Just to clarify and not lead to any confusion, a "whirlpool bathtub" is a jetted bath tub that many people have inside their home in the bath room. It is not a hot tub.
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: East_TX_Spa on March 02, 2006, 03:33:21 pm
Although it is a new article, it does not contain any new or revealing information.

Terminator
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: drewstar on March 02, 2006, 03:33:39 pm
Keep in mind this is for the whirlpool baths found in Bathrooms. (Ie Bath tubs)  Not Portable Spas.


The jaquzzi style bath tubs usually are not cleaned out well and can be very nasty.

Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: nm-tn on March 02, 2006, 03:45:21 pm
"The interior pipes of whirlpool baths that are not filtered or chemically treated, and non-maintained hot tubs, are prime areas for potentially infectious microbes to congregate and grow"
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Bonibelle on March 02, 2006, 03:54:56 pm
Hereeeee we go again..... :(  
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: TMJ on March 02, 2006, 04:00:37 pm
I just read it. Make sure you read the whole article before regretting your purchase.
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Bill_Stevenson on March 02, 2006, 04:06:35 pm
It would have been nice if they had tested the water with the billions of buggies again after shocking it with sanitizer.  I would be willing to bet that after proper sanitizing, the water would have no more bacteria than ordinary tap water.  Bacteria from feces, for example, would not show up in properly treated water.

Of course, all of the participants in this forum are either well informed already, or learning fast and should have no such issues.  It is the dummy that is going to have problems.

Now to the real question:  should we believe this microbiologist?  After all she is an Aggie.  ;-)

Bill
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Bonibelle on March 02, 2006, 04:12:37 pm
I have a friend who bought a house that had one previous owner. She literally tore walls down to get the whirlpool tub out. She was just so grossed out thinking about what could be lurking in the plumbing..I guess that was a smart move but I felt so sorry for her poor husband, he had to fix things back after pulling that huge heavy tub out!
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: HotTubMan on March 02, 2006, 04:42:51 pm
I can produce articles that suggest hot tubs can cause cancer too.

Of corse what causes cancer in tubs is chloramines and bromamines which can be prevented with proper oxidizing.

Wine causes cancer/heart disease. Wine helps fight cancer/ heart disease. Who is behind the article/study?
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on March 02, 2006, 05:29:48 pm
Did you know that a lot of mobil home's electrical wiring is aluminum. And, a lot of fires in mobil home are caused by the electrical wiring. So what does this have to do with a normal houses electrical wiring and fires? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.............. Just as this article about bathtubs has anything to do with hot tubs.
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Vinny on March 02, 2006, 06:17:50 pm
Quote
Did you know that a lot of mobil home's electrical wiring is aluminum. And, a lot of fires in mobil home are caused by the electrical wiring. So what does this have to do with a normal houses electrical wiring and fires? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.............. Just as this article about bathtubs has anything to do with hot tubs.


Hey!

My house has aluminum wiring and I have a hot tub ... does that mean that I'm going to get a rash and have a fire at the same time. What to do first ... scratch or sqirt!
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: cappykat on March 02, 2006, 06:18:47 pm
Hey Bonibelle...I think I like my bromine at >10...LOL!  Oh no...that means I have bromamines.  Oh me oh my...anyone want to buy a 2005 Epic?  JK!! ;)
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Bonibelle on March 02, 2006, 06:28:58 pm
Cappy, Just pour about 1/2 a bottle of that muriatic acid in and no more worries.....or skin for that matter! :o
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Snowbird on March 02, 2006, 07:24:13 pm
I don't know how many hot tubs are in use but it must be several thousand.  Nor do I know how many people use those hot tubs, but it must be at least 2 or 3  times the number of tubs.  So the number of users is staggering.

Don't you think that if this article had any credibility regarding hot tubs (not whirpool tubs) that Bill O'Reilly would be bloviating about it at least once a week? And that Hilary would be trying to pass a law against hot tubs for our own good?

The name of the game is grant money and to get the big $$$, you need to be published.  So, pic a subject, any subject.  You don't necessarily have to be an expert.  Write a scare article about it with some statements that seem credible but are difficult to disprove and presto - you're published and well on your way to Uncle Sam's feeding trough of useless studies.

Okay, I will get down off my soap box now - sorry. ::)
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: cappykat on March 02, 2006, 08:00:41 pm
Hey, I think you did a good job on that soapbox!  Yep, Bill O'Reilly bloviating--he'd be all over it!
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: tony on March 03, 2006, 07:43:53 am
This information has been known for years.  There are no great revelations in this article.  It actually promotes the purchase of a hot tub.  It is much safer to soak in your spa than it is in your jetted bathtub.

It is too bad that home resale value, in my area anyway, increases with a "jacuzzi bath" in the master or I would tear mine out and replace it with a nice non jetted bath.

A little bleach in water run through the plumbing is a good idea for jetted baths.
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: drewstar on March 03, 2006, 08:49:51 am
Quote
This information has been known for years.  There are no great revelations in this article.  It actually promotes the purchase of a hot tub.  It is much safer to soak in your spa than it is in your jetted bathtub.

It is too bad that home resale value, in my area anyway, increases with a "jacuzzi bath" in the master or I would tear mine out and replace it with a nice non jetted bath.

A little bleach in water run through the plumbing is a good idea for jetted baths.



True for me. I had debated getting a whirlpool style bathtub in my bathroom for awhile.    Then when some friends gave me thier old Nordic a few years ago....forget it. Whirlpool tub was out....Hot tubbing/Portable Spa  was it!

The article can relate to Hot tub owners as yes, bacteria can thrive in the plumbing of tubs that are not maintained.

It is more preveleant in bathtub units  since there is no regiment for sanitization, filtration, and water can sit stagnent in the plumbing for significant periods of time.

As these tubs get more popular, you're going to see more and more of these articles.   I think it pops up here at least 2x a year.

From what I've heard in the past few years I am glad I did not opt for one.  Cleaniliness, plumbing problems, unaccesable components. Blech.

:P
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Bill_Stevenson on March 03, 2006, 11:17:41 am
Vinny,

Your friendly local engineer PITA here.  If your house has aluminum wiring in it, you should hire an electrician to replace it with copper.  Really.  

Regards,

Bill
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Vinny on March 03, 2006, 02:43:09 pm
Actually, I have spoken to a few electricians and they said as long as I have the copper pigtails and Cu/Al wire nuts I am OK. I have them on all the recepticals in my house.

Interesting enough electricians use aluminum wire to route the outside electrical to the box.
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: nm-tn on March 03, 2006, 03:28:22 pm
Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that the way a whirlpool tub is made that there is no water left in the pipes after you drain it. So if there's no water left then how can this be that big of a problem? If your talking about the moisture in the pipes then should there not be a problem with the moisture around the top of a spa? The bottom of my spa cover should be black or green by now.  ???
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Brewman on March 03, 2006, 03:38:56 pm
 I'll read that article on hot tubs causing cancer referenced by Hot Tub Man, once I finish my cigar and brandy.  
We have an indoor whirlpool tub.  In the owners manual, it tells how to sanitize the thing.  
It ain't rocket science, folks.

Not that we use it much- compared to the Optima it has lousy jets, and no heater.  Pretty much takes the wind out of a 50 gallon water heater just to fill the dang thing.

But it looks really good in a for sale listing. ;)
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Snowbird on March 03, 2006, 05:13:01 pm
Quote
Actually, I have spoken to a few electricians and they said as long as I have the copper pigtails and Cu/Al wire nuts I am OK. I have them on all the recepticals in my house.

Interesting enough electricians use aluminum wire to route the outside electrical to the box.


There are two issues with aluminum wire.  First is the reaction (corrosion) caused by different types of metal.  This impedes the flow of electricity causing heat and eventually fire.

The second is that aluminum wire expands and contracts more than copper which loosens the connection.  Again this cause heat then fire.

The ends of the feed wires from the pole to your house are coated by the electrician with a substance (we used Nox-Alloy) to inhibit corrosion.  As for the expansion, those connections are designed differently than other interior connections.  We really cranked them down and never had an issue with loosening up.

If you have aluminum wire in your house or trailer, it is best to replace it.  Until then, you should check the connections periodically.  And never use those plug in connections on the back of receptacles and switches.  Always use the the screws. And if it were me, I would use the anti-corrosion stuff on all connections.  It is very cheap piece of mind.

Just my opinion, don't cha know.
;D
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: HotTubMan on March 03, 2006, 05:44:55 pm
Quote
I'll read that article on hot tubs causing cancer referenced by Hot Tub Man, once I finish my cigar and brandy.  

Brewman. I hope that you and everyone else took my comment on cancer as sarcasm....

That said, I did have a shopper yesterday evening come in for some chemicals. He wanted some pucks and some "boost" I asked him what he usually shocks with, he said he hasn't needed to shock his tub yet.

I asked him under what circumstances he feels he would "need" to shock. He felt, it was only required if the water got away from him or turned green.

He has owned the tub for 2 years.
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on March 03, 2006, 06:14:47 pm
Quote
Maybe I'm wrong but I believe that the way a whirlpool tub is made that there is no water left in the pipes after you drain it.


My recollection is that 1 oz. per jet is permissible by code. Even so, the remaining moisture is far more than required to grow a billion or so healthy bacteria colonies.

Quote
If your talking about the moisture in the pipes then should there not be a problem with the moisture around the top of a spa? The bottom of my spa cover should be black or green by now.  ???  


Except for the fact that the off gassing of the chemicals takes care of that..............
Title: Re: Have you seen this article
Post by: ramdom on March 07, 2006, 02:23:15 am
Funny thing is: there's probably just as much bacteria on my keyboard as I type this. After a school science test my wife recently taught in class, students found computer keyboards carried far more bacteria than toilet seats, urinals and footwear, much to their amazement and humour.


When you get hit by the bus wouldn't you rather be in a hot tub? (and go out with a splash!)