Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: jnsjr58 on February 25, 2006, 06:10:12 pm
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I have received quite a few "Private Posts" from people on this fourm buying and/or recommeding ........ lets just call them "Not the top ten Brands".
They quote a variety of reasons for not wanting to make a general post, but for the most part they don't want to get into the partialness and bias which is prevalent on this fourm.
Once apon a time, it was brought up that it may be best ( for all whom use this fourm) for each Dealer to identify ones self in your ID.
While it's nice to have the dealers and their products represented here, I for one really want to hear from and about "Everyday people" in various stages of "Tubbing". From the new shopper to the 20+ yearer.
Mr./ Ms. Mediator/ Moderator you may want to consider getting this done, and maybe in doing so, coaxing the many in the closet from coming out, without fear of ridicule.
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I have received quite a few "Private Posts" from people on this fourm buying and/or recommeding ........ lets just call them "Not the top ten Brands".
They quote a variety of reasons for not wanting to make a general post, but for the most part they don't want to get into the partialness and bias which is prevalent on this fourm.
Once apon a time, it was brought up that it may be best ( for all whom use this fourm) for each Dealer to identify ones self in your ID.
While it's nice to have the dealers and their products represented here, I for one really want to hear from and about "Everyday people" in various stages of "Tubbing". From the new shopper to the 20+ yearer.
Mr./ Ms. Mediator/ Moderator you may want to consider getting this done, and maybe in doing so, coaxing the many in the closet from coming out, without fear of ridicule.
Could not agree with you more. I think all dealers should be labeled as being dealers. Doing so would inform all potential customers that they were communicating with dealers. You are also correct about the "Top 10 brands". I have used PM's many times for this very reason. I find it much easier and altogether hassle free to speak with other people about particular brands than to post on the open forum and have it turn into a 3-4 page thread. Sometimes dealers just can't stand the fact that there are better brands on the market than the one they happen to be selling.
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I agree
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Mr./ Ms. Mediator/ Moderator you may want to consider getting this done, and maybe in doing so, coaxing the many in the closet from coming out, without fear of ridicule.
Will you be willing to research/enforce it and handle the complaints or suspicions that someone isn't whom they say they are? I'm not, which for now is the end of that story. How can I be assured your a consumer and not a disgruntled smaller manufacturer?
The other side of the free speech coin is being responsible for the advice you take as well as give and weigh it against all known factors.
As this is practically unenforceable, I have said in the past that any dealer who wishes to identify themselves is free to do so and many have. Are you putting more credence in the advice you are getting in PM than here? That is your choice.
Yes, there is some petty bickering and partiality here, but it is your responsiblity to figure that out, not mine.
They quote a variety of reasons for not wanting to make a general post, but for the most part they don't want to get into the partialness and bias which is prevalent on this fourm.
That sounds like more of a lazy excuse than a practical one. I'm suspicious of certain types of sales techniques and this would be one of them.
BTW, I'm the happy owner of a "not a top 10 mfg mentioned here. Those in the closet are there by their own choice. We all make our own choices here and it is up to you to determine what is what.
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I agree
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In the purchase of my new spa, I have received advice from both end users and sales people alike. Just because one is a sales person does not make them less trustworthy or biased. I have found the person who makes a living selling spas and accessories to be helpful and knowledgeable. I see no need to "identify" one whose business is selling spas.
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I agree
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In defense of the dealers on this forum, I think most of them do identify themselves as such. We are fortunate to have excellent pros here, dealer, reps and techs. Their interaction with the rest of us is part of what makes this a fun and informative place to come. I would hope that dealers believe in their product and would expect some bias to come forth. We can generally flush out the devious ones that stop in to raise a little havoc. That is all part of the process. As far as the top ten being well represented, well, thats because they are the top ten and probably make up a very large percentage of the spas sold. Sometimes you get many anwers to a single question. Thats the nature of this business.
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I agree.
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I agree.
I couldn't have said it better myself. ;)
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I'm thinking that by bringing all questions out into the open, not only do you get more feedback, but also if there's someone trying to steer you in a questionable direction (especially us newbies), the "good guys" (white hats are optional) are more likely to step in and redirect. I'd much rather be thought of as starring in a soap opera because of my "journey", but at this point, I feel VERY well informed because I made the entire thing public....
I thank everyone that's been a part of my continuing education, and encourage the owners of what's been coined the "non top 10" brands to step forward with any thoughts, problems, concerns, etc.....if it feels good on YOUR butt, who is anyone else to tell you that you did wrong?
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.....if it feels good on YOUR butt, who is anyone else to tell you that you did wrong?
Is this a reference to your avatar??
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Is this a reference to your avatar??
*LMAO* ummmmm.......no it wasn't....but I guess it COULDA been, huh?
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The other side of the free speech coin is being responsible for the advice you take as well as give and weigh it against all known factors.
Bill, you are a great moderator. I appreciate your time spent here, and this statement is a very good summary of the truth of trying to shop for a big ticket item by reading other people's opinions.
Keep it up, and may all your ice be smooth.
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This idea has come up before. I have to side with Bill. There are so many practical objections and frankly there is little need for it. If anyone steps out of line in this forum, there are plenty of qualified people who will recognize bogus information and will not tolerate it.
I don't quite understand the comment about bias in this forum. From my seat there is not much bias here. People ask questions or make comments which are then addressed from a lot of different points of view. Any reader who invests the time should have no trouble getting a balanced perspective on hottubs and related topic herein.
I am a consumer and have found the professional people who frequent and contribute to this forum to be very helpful and supportive.
Bill, I side with Chas that you are doing a commendable job as moderator. Thanks for your effort.
Regards,
Bill
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I'm a proponent of knowing who's who. It helps me understand were folks are comming from. It lends credibility to Dealers and Techs when they speak about technical and brand specific topics. For consumers, knowing who's who helps with understnding opions and problems etc.
I agree there is no way to police or enforce it. So it's mute point other than it's been voiced as a nice idea.
anyhow...
As far as "Bias" in the forum, I think it's got to do with a lot of the If it's not a major brand, it gets shot down pretty quickly. I can see why some folks would not want to dicuss it here if they are only going to be 2nd guesssed.
I'd like to see more contributions from from folks who have different types of tubs regardless of brand. (any brand).
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People that have made the "wrong" choice are not going to come here and talk about it, much less save someone else from making the same mistake. You don't see them here do you? There is nothing in it for them other than to belittled or berated for making a poor choice for what ever reason they did. Usually, it is about the money.
Most consumers are happy with their Hot tub decisions and can speak about their single experience. Usually, only a short length of time of ownership however.
Most dealers are happy to talk about what they know and what they sell. Usually, they have many years of experience to draw from after assisting 1000's if not far more consumers with their purchases. Of course they are opinionated, just like every mother is about her children.
It seems there is an inherent distrust of dealers in this industry, even though most if not all the dealers on this forum CARE about their customers and reflect that attitude here.
It is a shame that some of you can not find it possible to trust dealers or sales people like Chas, East tx or the many others that share information and comments here in this forum. Relationships are important and it seems everybody has a very negative impression of "dealers" and "salespeople" and then they generalize them to imply ALL are alike. That is disappointing, but that is the way people are, it is usually they way they are too.
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Yikes, touchy subject......... :-X
Hey, a fourm is made up of lots of diferent people with lots of different thoughts and ideas. Y'all now know what mine is on that subject.
With that said, I too would like to thank the Moderator(s) for the time and energy it takes to keep this thing going. I have no idea what it takes to make that happen but i'm sure it's no small task.
After looking further I do see a few dealers IDing them selves, I just happen to think it would be nice if they all would. I also know it would be impossible to police.
I am also not Anti-dealer, ( far from it ) for example see my post under "wet testing" ( I don't know how to put it in that small quote box but here it is ):
"Keep in mind in order to do that, the dealer has to get (and deserves) a decent profit margine. It is in your best interest as well, that your dealer is profitable and is there to service you for years to come."
I sincerely feel that way too.
I guess maybe I should keep my thoughts to myself, and weigh very lightly the advise of any dealer that isn't honorable enough to identify him/herself.
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I guess maybe I should keep my thoughts to myself,
Never, that just doesn't work well here either.
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This entire forum is made up of thoughts from individuals from all different walks of life. That is what keeps us all in balance here and if we get outta line, someone will be there to challenge or adjust our ways of thinking.
These thoughts often are opinionated or biased ONLY because of their point of view which is based on the knowledge and understanding that they have and are willing to share.
jnsjr, your thoughts are just as important as mine or anyone else's and should be openly voiced. When any of us say anything, we are subject to responses from both the knowing and the unknowing, this is not only fredom of speech but an educational process, as well. ;)
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I think people that've made bad decisions, been burned, etc are out in the open here...some cases more than others, but in any case, we can all learn from the trials and troubles of others, and try, in the process, to better educate ourselves as buyers, and you, the sellers can see what "the other half" gets to deal with.
First time I met a spa salesperson, I thought you ALL were uppity, looking down your noses at people that shop for tubs wearing jeans and t-shirts, because they're EXPENSIVE....they're LUXURY items.....well, I was WRONG (yes, I admitted it here, first....write it on your calendar, folks!)....the snotty sales people are just a blight on your industry, just like the slick talking used car salesmen *shudder*.....
Kudos to the folks that make the schmucks like me feel GOOD about ourselves, and the other buyers that have helped to show me and others out there the brighter side of the coin.
Now.....go have a beer.
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This entire forum is made up of thoughts from individuals from all different walks of life. That is what keeps us all in balance here and if we get outta line, someone will be there to challenge or adjust our ways of thinking.
These thoughts often are opinionated or biased ONLY because of their point of view which is based on the knowledge and understanding that they have and are willing to share.
jnsjr, your thoughts are just as important as mine or anyone else's and should be openly voiced. When any of us say anything, we are subject to responses from both the knowing and the unknowing, this is not only fredom of speech but an educational process, as well. ;)
Very well said.
The information and opinions on this discussion board is fluid and represents many different viewpoints and varying levels of knowledge from a large group of people.
I would caution those who come here looking for information to consider the source and remember the sage advice that free advice is worth every penny. I have actually participated in forums where folks who have never owned a hot tub were giving advice to others on how to shop and care for their tub.