Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: spahopeful on February 10, 2006, 10:35:07 pm
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I am getting close to buying a Jacuzzi J385. I started having some reservations when I found that my dealer has an unsatisfactory record with the BBB due to a total of 4 complaints with 3 that had been resolved and just one unresolved. Now, I just noticed in the "in the market for a spa" thread where someone wouldn't recommend the Jacuzzi brand due to recent developments. Any other thoughts on the Jacuzzi brand? Any other suggestions on how to determine if I can trust the dealer in my area?
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I have had a Jacuzzi 370 for three years. Other than one small problem that was fixed by a local service provider with some great input from Jacuzzi my tub has been problem free. (The hose going to the waterfalls had a small kink in it that happened during the full foaming process at the factory. Jacuzzi went to a tub on the manufacturing line and determined what the most likely spot that the kink would be. They were exactly right and the service guy had in fixed in 15 miunutes.)
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I have called and left messages for Sundance for a year and never heard back from them. When I requested a sales brocure, they sent that. Jacuzzi owns Sundance.
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I wouldn't put a whole lot of weight in the BBB's "unsatisfacory" rating. Only the dealer and the customer know the circumstances regarding the "unresolved" issue. The issue might even be resolved, but SOMEONE forgot to do the follow up. The BBB, like credit reporting agencies, takes complaints, and forwords the complaint on to the complaintant, but then feel that is the end of their responsibility. Just like the credit agencies, it is up to the person/company to ensure that all information is true and accurate. Most business owners are overworked and dont have enough time to wrestle with the Bulls#!t Business Bureaucracy. In my 5 years of business ownership I was a member and have several plaques stating my complete complaint free operation, so this aint no sour grapes, I just don't think you should give them much weight.
I am getting close to buying a Jacuzzi J385. I started having some reservations when I found that my dealer has an unsatisfactory record with the BBB due to a total of 4 complaints with 3 that had been resolved and just one unresolved. Now, I just noticed in the "in the market for a spa" thread where someone wouldn't recommend the Jacuzzi brand due to recent developments. Any other thoughts on the Jacuzzi brand? Any other suggestions on how to determine if I can trust the dealer in my area?
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I agree with Wisoki about the BBB. As to recent developments about Jacuzzi, I asked that person to elaborate about those and got no responseas of yet. I have not heard anything about any recent developments. who knows what he means, he could have an axe to grind. ask around about the dealer, if you know anyone who has dealt with them.
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It doesn't hurt to ask the dealer about the record and also for referrals.
My Jacuzzi dealer has been great so far. The few non-spa issues I had on delivery (bar stools and steps) were quickly taken care of. If you go with the 385 I hope you like it as much as I do ;D
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The Jacuzzi J385 is one of the nicest spas available. Jacuzzi makes good products and the chances are you would be very pleased with the tub. I would not worry too much about the BBB report. 3 out of 4 tells me the dealer is trying to please.
Regards,
Bill
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Note to Luigi
I'd appreciate hearing from you re: no response from Sundance.
Did you contact a specific dealer or is it corporate you're not getting a response from?
We are new Sundance dealer and have found them very responsive, but I'd like to help you if I can.
Please advise.
Thanks, Glenn
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Sorry, you wanted responses on the developments at Jacuzzi, and I was late and also found out that he tech I like at my local Jacuzzi dealer has taken over and seems to be trying to help out although he seems swamped. Ironically, after I posted my concern here, he called me asking if I needed anything. Perhaps a coincidence. It made me feel perhaps a little quick to the gun though and decided to hold off commenting further until I gave them more time. Dpgtech is a Jacuzzi dealer and I would bet refers potential owners to read this forum.
When I told other dealers I was looking for a Jacuzzi, they all said "good luck if anything breaks." I dismissed it as competition bashing.
I ended up buying the j335, which I really love and believe it is a very good tub at a very reasonable price, so I guess that's why I was very vocal when someone asked me about Jacuzzi in the past. I was quick to pour praise on the brand and figured I would continue to do so once a service issue arose. Certainly a company that has been around more than 50 years would take care of it's new customers rather than risk having them drive off potential customers by sharing their negative experiences, right? ???
There is a frequent poster here who was shopping for tubs and lives near my dealership. I praised the dealership and she ended up with a different tub. I will allow her to speak on her impressions of the dealership if she cares to do so.
In 8 months, I have had 4 problems with my air switches sticking. Not really a big deal once you get them unstuck as I like to keep the flow on max. The last couple times I have had to do it myself as the tech has said he would stop by and never did.
The only dealership in town now has closed doors with a sign telling you to call for an appointment if you want to enter the store. Not too good if you are driving around and the impulse to shop for a tub or accessories strikes you. My belief is that this dealership is on it's final breaths.
Perhaps I should have clarified that the developments are local and not all over the country from what I know, but is it only local? I definitely won't be late to report any problems in the future dgtech. Axe to grind? Probably. Pissed off, definitely.
I would definitely ask around and speak with local owners of jacuzzis in your area and find out their experiences before putting down one cent for a deposit.
I guess I would sum it up with:
Brand= Very Good.
Dealer reliability: Not sure globally, watch your *ss in Central Florida.
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Love my j365 Bought in November and so far no problems. My local dealer is also vey good. I would buy another one.
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You are correct about Central Florida area and Jacuzzi/Sundance. They are working on service providers for the spas. No real dealerships in that area to take care of issues. I'm sure they'll eventually get it worked out.
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That's what really surprises me. Central Florida is one of the fastest growing regions in the country and has seen home values increase 50% in 2 years, trailing only a couple markets.
I'd imagine if a service oriented spa dealership opened in the main city area, they would do a very good business. Hotspring has a dealership 1/2 hour away and I think Marquis is close. Vita Spa has a showroom, but I don't like their stuff.
I would wager that within one year, someone will step up.
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Been servicing Jacuzzi for over 10 years. Jut attended a tech seminar on the newer models. They have made some design changes, and I liked what I was seeing. But then again , I liked the old system too ;D
Yes, Sundance and Jacuzzi are made by the same company, just like Chevy and cadillac are made by GM.
There are still some things Sundance offers that Jacuzzi can't (or won't). Think of Sundance as the cadillac of the two. Either one is a good spa to own, but I still give my top nods to Hot Springs.
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Jacuzzi is about to have A couple cadillacs of their own with the new 400 series. a completely different filtration system and styling that is like nothing else out there. If you went to the Aqua show they had them on display. they are just shipping them out in about a week, and in the range of a maxxus for a J-470, and a little more for the J-480.
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Jacuzzi is about to have A couple cadillacs of their own with the new 400 series. a completely different filtration system and styling that is like nothing else out there. If you went to the Aqua show they had them on display. they are just shipping them out in about a week, and in the range of a maxxus for a J-470, and a little more for the J-480.
Is Jacuzzi Premium going the same way as Sundance with high flow circ pumps for filtration in their new 400 series?
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they are using the same circ pump, and a microban impregnated changeable filter for the circ pump, that will also be availible for the 300 series as well. the other part of the filtration is a true bottom suction filter system that filters through a 10 micron filter bag.
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I was at the Atlantic city show in Jan '06 for a Sundance tech seminar. Sundance, the same guys giving that seminar were giving a Jacuzzi premium seminar the next day. Both lines have stopped using the little Laing low flow circ pumps, and have gone to a larger pump for heat/filtration. Due to the larger pump, they are now runing some bypass. My major beef with the Jacuzzi was the traditional filter setup. Sundance had that beat hands down.......untill now. All indications are the two spas will be sharing the same circ pump/bypass/ large horizontal filter setup. This narrows the gap between these two spa brands. (In my humble opinion).
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Its about time!!!!
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the 300 series is still using the laing circ pump and vertical dual filters, the 400 series has gone to the high flow circ pump but will not be using the horizontal filter. the 400 series also will not have the same filter setup as the 300 series
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My local dealer does seem to know about these 2006 changes. Where can I find out about these changes? Is the 2006 J385 different than the 2005 J385?
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the 300 series is still using the laing circ pump and vertical dual filters, the 400 series has gone to the high flow circ pump but will not be using the horizontal filter. the 400 series also will not have the same filter setup as the 300 series
Sounds like they are taking the same route as SD for 2005. Top of the line has the new features.
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I stand corrected. I attended the Sundance seminar, and learned about the new higher flow circ pump that they are going to use in the J400 class. I only assumed they were phasing out the laing pump in all tubs. My mistake. But it does make me wonder why only apply what they are deeming a "vast improvment" to only one series of the product line. I also checked on the filter, and I was wrong about that too. The J400's will use a new Proclear skimmer, and Proclear filters with microban, but the are vertical filters, not Horizontal like the Sundance. As for a dealer not knowing about the changes, he should call his rep, and say "long time no see", wich sounds odd to me, because this Jacuzzi wants to sell hot tubs. The dealer can also access the dealer community website (that's where I got my info), any authoreized dealer or servicer can go there and get teh skinny on the J400's right from the horses mouth.
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Allow me to clear up any questions you may have. I have the 200, 300, and 400 series spas on my show room floor. I'd be more than happy to clear up any mis conception that Jacuzzi is "following" Sundance.
I stand corrected. I attended the Sundance seminar, and learned about the new higher flow circ pump that they are going to use in the J400 class. I only assumed they were phasing out the laing pump in all tubs. My mistake. But it does make me wonder why only apply what they are deeming a "vast improvment" to only one series of the product line. I also checked on the filter, and I was wrong about that too. The J400's will use a new Proclear skimmer, and Proclear filters with microban, but the are vertical filters, not Horizontal like the Sundance. As for a dealer not knowing about the changes, he should call his rep, and say "long time no see", wich sounds odd to me, because this Jacuzzi wants to sell hot tubs. The dealer can also access the dealer community website (that's where I got my info), any authoreized dealer or servicer can go there and get teh skinny on the J400's right from the horses mouth.
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I'm new and do not know how to that neat quote thingy yrt, so let mejust say I'm tickled pink you are willing to clear things up for us about Sundance/Jacuzzi.
!st question: What '06 models are still using the Laing circ pumps, instead of the high volume circ pump Sundance has gone to in their most recent models?
2nd question: What is the differance between the Jacuzzi Proclean filter, and Sundance Microclean filter?
Both spas ARE made in the same factory in Chino, CA so it'w only naturel they would share some similar features. I am able to get several EXACT replacement parts for Sundance spas by ordering them using Jacuzzi part numb'following Sundance", but heck, sombody at one side of the factory is looking over at the other side and saying "Hey, that's a good idea, lets do that over here." ;)
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All models use the laing circ pump except the 480, 470, and 460 (not yet in production.) All sundance models use the laing circ pump except the maxxus, optima and cameo.
The sundance micro clean filter is a throw away filter that screws on tho the end of a 65 sq. ft. pleated filter. The "pro clean polising filter" Jacuzzi is using is a cleanable reusable seprate filter from their regular filter.
I'm new and do not know how to that neat quote thingy yrt, so let mejust say I'm tickled pink you are willing to clear things up for us about Sundance/Jacuzzi.
!st question: What '06 models are still using the Laing circ pumps, instead of the high volume circ pump Sundance has gone to in their most recent models?
2nd question: What is the differance between the Jacuzzi Proclean filter, and Sundance Microclean filter?
Both spas ARE made in the same factory in Chino, CA so it'w only naturel they would share some similar features. I am able to get several EXACT replacement parts for Sundance spas by ordering them using Jacuzzi part numb'following Sundance", but heck, sombody at one side of the factory is looking over at the other side and saying "Hey, that's a good idea, lets do that over here." ;)
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All models use the laing circ pump except the 480, 470, and 460 (not yet in production.) All sundance models use the laing circ pump except the maxxus, optima and cameo.
The sundance micro clean filter is a throw away filter that screws on tho the end of a 65 sq. ft. pleated filter. The "pro clean polising filter" Jacuzzi is using is a cleanable reusable seprate filter from their regular filter.
As of 2006, all the 880 models (Maxxus, Cameo, Optima, Majesta, Altamar, Marin, Capri) have the hi-flow circulation system that is totally separate from the jet system. The 780 line will still have the laing circulation pump, but will use the micrclean filter.
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All models use the laing circ pump except the 480, 470, and 460 (not yet in production.) All sundance models use the laing circ pump except the maxxus, optima and cameo.
The sundance micro clean filter is a throw away filter that screws on tho the end of a 65 sq. ft. pleated filter. The "pro clean polising filter" Jacuzzi is using is a cleanable reusable seprate filter from their regular filter.
I decided to dig deeper into this issue and to be fair:
You forgot to mention the Sundance Microclean II filter. It is a one peice 125 square ft. filter used in the 880 series. The 880 series contains the Maxuus Optima Cameo and Majesta. My source for this information is www.sundancespas.com
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Sundance Microclean II filter is also a throw away filter. Relatively expensive I understand.
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Sundance Microclean II filter is also a throw away filter. Relatively expensive I understand.
The big question is how much is it? If a customer can avoid cleaning the filter, and spending money on filter cleaner, it might be worth it.
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At $95+ per filter, I doubt you would be saving any thing on filter cleaner solution. I believe it is designed to apeal to the lazy hot tub owner that would rather just throw the old one away after 6 or 8 months, rather than have to remember monthly filter maintinence.
The big question is how much is it? If a customer can avoid cleaning the filter, and spending money on filter cleaner, it might be worth it.
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At $95+ per filter, I doubt you would be saving any thing on filter cleaner solution. I believe it is designed to apeal to the lazy hot tub owner that would rather just throw the old one away after 6 or 8 months, rather than have to remember monthly filter maintinence.
I ckecked the owner's manual on an Optima. It says every 6 months, or whenever needed. Guess it is for spa owners who do not want to deal with filter cleaning............In other words, just what I need! :D
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I've just read this thread. In response to orlandoguy reference to me. I loved the J385. I was very torn over it and the Marquis Epic. I didn't like that there was no place to put a drink. I know that's minor but it was a little thing. I floated in the lounger and most of the seats. For us...the Epic just seemed to be the one.
Our purchase of the Epic really had nothing to do with the Jacuzzi dealership. I really liked Matt. He was very helpful and accommodating. I had some reservations about the Marquis dealership because there had been quite a turnover in brands but I met with the owner and he told me why. We developed a good rapport and I feel like we'll get good service.
I think spas are like any other business. If the dealership does well, has good sales/service it will stay solvent, but let's face it...businesses open and close all the time. I'm not sure it has any thing to do with the brand. Jacuzzi has been around a long time. Marquis has a solid reputation. I wouldn't be a happy camper if I had purchased the J385 and then the dealer closed the store but I don't think that means Jacuzzi is an inferior tub. I would be contacting Jacuzzi daily to see what's going on and when/where do I go if I have problems. Like orlandoguy said sounds like this is a "local" issue and not national.
It is surprising that a city the size of Orlando doesn't have more representation. I did notice an Artic dealer has opened a store by one of our malls. This area is growing by leaps and bounds and I recently read that Orlando is the #2 city for growth in the nation. I'm sure before long we'll have all the major players.
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Well said Cappy.
I'm sure you are also aware at the amount of time and money many people put into their patios and outdoor areas in Orlando. It only makes sense that a good dealership would do very well in this area and robably soon will.
After a couple weeks to cool off, I might have been a little harsh on them based on the fact they closed their door to walk ins. I guess the true test will be the day I really need service. I certainly will make my experiences well known here and all over the city, be they positive or negative.
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I would be doing the same orlandoguy. It's that ole adage..."the squecky wheel gets the grease".
Have you called Jacuzzi direct?
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At $95+ per filter, I doubt you would be saving any thing on filter cleaner solution. I believe it is designed to apeal to the lazy hot tub owner that would rather just throw the old one away after 6 or 8 months, rather than have to remember monthly filter maintinence.
Because something is easier means it is for lazy people?
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At $95+ per filter, I doubt you would be saving any thing on filter cleaner solution. I believe it is designed to apeal to the lazy hot tub owner that would rather just throw the old one away after 6 or 8 months, rather than have to remember monthly filter maintinence.
People don't take kindly to the "lazy" term but otherwise I'm with you 100% on this. I think it's really a reflection of our "throw away" society so it's not that they're lazy as much as it's engrained in people that easier is better; but at what cost. Cameras that you use once and get sent to the photo lab and tossed away, one use contacts, disposable this, throw away that.... Are these things easier to use? Sure but I can't do things like that. I'm a hardcore recycler/non waste person who uses cloth napkins and kitchen towels instead of paper napkins/towels and there is now way I'm going to use and throw away filters when I can clean and reuse mine OVER and OVER (even if I got the disposable ones for free). I guess I'm a bit old school on that but I'm not adding to the landfill or letting money leave my wallet just so I can throw away rather than clean/reuse (and yes, we used MANY cloth diapers with 3 kids and didn't use a service either, though my wife made me take care of that past since it's more my thing).
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Right on spatech...I'm all for ease of use but at what cost? When we were driving to Ft. Lauderdale a couple of weekends ago, I noticed a landfill right on the Fl Turnpike. I mean the 30ft+ high mounds were right at the roadside and the vultures were circling overhead. It was pretty gross!!
I use paper towels but I also use cloth. I'm not as good as I could be about recycling but our trash problems are becoming insurmountable. We could all do a little better.
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and the vulgers were circling overhead. It was pretty gross!!
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Where these black vulgars or turkey vulgars? ;)
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Oh bite me!! Go ahead search my posts and you'll find I don't make spelling errors very often...so again, bite me!! JK... ;D ;)
Oh...and if you do take the time to do a search...I don't want to hear about it! ;D ;D
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I really hate the fact that just because I voiced my opinion that it might be nice to not have to clean a spa filter once a month, some people are ready to paint me as some thoughtless ghoul, hellbent on ruining our kids futures by filling the landfills with my evil disposable spa filters. Yeah, like I am sitting here, twisting my mustache, hatching my next scheme to destroy the world. First off, standard spa filters should be replaced every 12 to 18 months, yeah I know some will argue they can get 50 years out of a filter, but my point is all filters are eventually thrown out. I appreciate we have become a "throw away" society. Don't preach to the choir. I once had a thriving business repairing VCRs, yeah thats right, VCRs! That was when they cost over $300. The business became unprofitable when VCR prices dropped like a paralized falcon. I pleaded with customers to keep there better constructed older models, but they'd just say, "I can buy a new one for $70"(cheaper now). Then when they'd come in with a $70 Vcr and ask me to repair it, If I could not repair it for under $30, they'd say," you can 'keep it for parts' " A euphanism for "throw away my trash for me". All I'm trying to say is were talking about a problem here that streches way beyond the scope of this thread, or forum for that matter. If you think Sundance filters are filling up your landfills..........................awe cripes! I just can't take it any longer. You have made me feel bad about myself, and the world in general. Congratulations. I'll still be here though, ready to bat this one back over the net with you again, and again.
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Where these black vulgars or turkey vulgars? ;)
Don't you mean "Were these" rather than "Where these"?
Glass houses!!!
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actually...I've been to landfills many times (I drive on them occasionally with the dump truck), and have become rather well acquainted with them. I haven't seen any filters yet, but roofing nails and dirty diapers are ALL over.......so are seagulls around here......YUCK. Vultures, however....those aren't that common on the fills, but they sure are cool to watch.....
The times that really suck, however, are just after it rains and it's about 90 out........that's when I break into a verse of "On Top of Old Stinky" over the cb.....cracks the guys up every time.
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Because something is easier means it is for lazy people?
Point taken. I have edited my original post to remove the word lazy. It was a poor choice of words. Thanks for bringing this oversite to my attention.
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I just can't take it any longer. You have made me feel bad about myself, and the world in general. Congratulations. I'll still be here though, ready to bat this one back over the net with you again, and again.
Disposable flters just aren't anything I could ever do but if they are the bomb for you then that's great but I'll stick to my reuseables (that will typically last me 2 to 5 years). I didn't mean to label anyone who uses them as a heathen!! I know I take the recycling/non-waste thing a bit far for some people (as my wife rolls her eyes wherever she is) but that's just me.
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Disposable flters just aren't anything I could ever do but if they are the bomb for you then that's great but I'll stick to my reuseables (that will typically last me 2 to 5 years). I didn't mean to label anyone who uses them as a heathen!! I know I take the recycling/non-waste thing a bit far for some people (as my wife rolls her eyes wherever she is) but that's just me.
If you are going to be passionate about somthing, you picked a good cause. At least you are thinking of the future. I like to think on some level or another we all are trying do better in regards to how we interact/effect the enviroment. Peace.
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think to the future all that you want. Disposable is easy and the way to go. Do I feel guilty about this you ask, hell no. Why you ask?
The 80's
confused? you know it, yes the 80's is why I dont feel guilty. I was just a youngen during this decade and did not have a chance to join in and ruin the environment.
Still confused, well lets step back into the 80's for a moment.
Woman spent tons of effort, time and energy in an attempt to replicate show poodle hair. Thats right, canned hair spray. Feeling guilty ladies, well gentlemen you are just as guilty driving you old big V8 vehicles that ultimately doubled as a boat . You drop your wives off at the hair salon and would wait outside in you car running AC and leaving the engine idleing due to cheap gas prices. And for a little snack you would eat a big mac in the old styrofoam container that doubled as a french fry holder(truly the best solution).
So while you all invested in jeans that were treated to an acid washing and wearing high top leather sneakers with the giant tounges, I was wearing jogging pants and getting bowl cut hair cuts from my mom.
So, I missed out. So to contribute to the degeneration of my environment, I decided that these disposable filters would be the best way to contribute.
sorry, had a moment there ::)
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Don't you mean "Were these" rather than "Where these"?
Glass houses!!!
Right on spatech!! Thanks for coming to my rescue!
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Ain't a dang thing wrong with being lazy AND environmentally conscious.
Awhile back, I took to wearing Depends so that I didn't have to get up from my beer drinking and football watching to use the bathroom. This arrangement is environmentally friendly as I (1) use only cloth Depends and (2) don't waste our precious water by flushing the toilet as much.
My wife also leaves me alone so I can concentrate on the game. My wife, me, and the environment all win!
Terminator
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Now that is a picture...Term in Depends. Whoee baby!!
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That is not a picture, that is just plain wrong.
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Now that is a picture...Term in Depends. Whoee baby!!
Wait until you see the loincloth I bought in Australia for my dijdeerooin'!
Terminator
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Whoops...I forgot the gun in that picture ;D ;)
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A loincloth and a gun...for your what???
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A loincloth and a gun...for your what???
Go over to the General BS section and you can read all the details about my trip Down Under. All questions will be answered, my dear. :)
Terminator