Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: uncommonlytasty on February 10, 2006, 07:38:58 am
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Has anyone heard of the hot tub shield extended warranty service program? If so, what do you think about it? Do you think $300/year for a service contract on the controls and 2 pumps is a good deal for customers?
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Absolutely not.
Unless you think you're going to spend way over that in maintenance. If I had a hot tub that needed that level of service, I'd get rid of it.
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If you have a good quality tub, its a waste of money.
Or, think of it this way............300 bucks a year x 20 years = new hot tub
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I'd keep it in your pocket...
I've never been a big extra warranty guy, I'd take my chances....
This why research is so importain before purchase...
Just my opinion...
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After my 5th e-mail from these people, I finally put them in my spam folder, phew, no more mail from them. If I were strictly a service comopany, I would offer it to every customer who's spa I was tending to. Certainly a money maker on that end.
Has anyone heard of the hot tub shield extended warranty service program? If so, what do you think about it? Do you think $300/year for a service contract on the controls and 2 pumps is a good deal for customers?
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Yep, what Wisoki said. Somebody will probably make some money on this but it won't be us. It sounds like a nightmare from our company's standpoint.
Terminator
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Do yourself a favor and put $300/yr in an interest bearing savings account. If something breaks you will have a reserve account to pay for it. If nothing breaks you will have most of the price of a new spa after a couple years. Either way - you win. ;D
As long as you do proper care and maintenance, the only way you lose is if you give somebody else $300. :'(
What brand and model spa did you buy?
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Hot tub techs and dealers will tell you that even with "proper care and maintenance" a part(s) repair will often be needed. æSome dealers and techs do not like working with us because the prefer collecting the out of warranty labor charge and part mark-up direct from the consumer. æWhich can run from $100 to $800.
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Lets see. I'd pay $300 and all I'd get is one year of coverage. And if nothing went wrong with my spa, I'd be out $300.
If the unthinkable happened, and my spa had the dreaded $800 repair cited above, my net savings would only be about $500. Paying $300 for sure to save a theoretical $500? No thanks, I'll accept the risk and shuck out the bucks.
In fact, I'll pass on that warranty for 3 years in a row, saving me $900. Which I'll then use to pay the $800 repair bill, netting me $100.
Nice try, but I ain't buying it.
Another way to look at it:
I paid maybe $8k for my spa and had absolutely no repair bills to pay for the first 5 years, because my spa either didn't break down, or Sundance picked up the cost under warranty. If I can figure out how to cover the 8K for the spa, I think I could scrape up a tenth of that to pay for a repair years after the spa was paid for.
Still ain't buying it.
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I would have to agree with all of the poster's on this one. and if you paid 6,000 dollars for a tub with a 1 or 2 year warranty then you should have done a little more looking and you would have found a five year warranty and not have to shell out 300 bucks after 1 or 2 years.
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Hot tub insiders can run the numbers but they don't add up.
I guess we assume that out of the 4-5 million hot tubs sitting in backyards in North America a spa back never needs to replaced and a tech is never going to charge above market rates or "round up" that second hour.
Out of the 4 - 5 million hot tubs currently sitting in backyards in North America how many $500+ repair bills are staring the consumer in the face? ÊAnd because of this potential high repair bill will wait and wait to repair their hot tub? Ê This doesn't help the industry and it's not going to help dealer chemical sales either.
The majority of the 170+ hot tub manufacturer's in North America offer less than a 5 year warranty. ÊAnd there are many, many hot tubs in the marketplace that cost over $6,000 and have a 1 or 2 year parts and labor warranty.
You don't need to buy it. ÊJust tell the consumer the truth.
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I believe that you can add this plan to a used tub that you have purchased. Covering a used tub with unknown history and age may be a worthwhile endeavor. Most tubs are used because, (more than likely,) they have had problems in the past. Couldn't see adding it to a new tub that you have owned its whole existence.
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If this is the same plan I've found on for sale on Ebay, and it sure seems to be then be aware that:
There is an additional $29 fee for each warranty incident
The call to the company should service arise is not toll free.
This plan has to be purchased while the spa in question is still covered by it's original factory warranty.
It renews automatically each year- you'd have to contact the company prior to the next year to cancel out.
Since we're all wanting to be honest, I thought this would help.
If this isn't the same plan, then I appologize in advance.
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A couple other things.
1) You have to pay extra for certain components
2) Only a 1 time allowance of $200 for leak repair. I assume this means that if you have 3 leaks that total to $500, you owe $300.
3) They chose the technician, not you. If your dealer does not participate, then they will not be the ones servicing you.
4) I cannot find a "terms and conditions" page anyhwere. There is some real small print that says to review the complete terms and conditions, but I could not find any. I found a "brief outline" page, but no terms and conditions.
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Hi,
All of this information is explicity spelled out to the hot tub consumer on our website: www.hottubshield.com
The fact that you are too lazy to read a website and take a moment to understand what we do and how we help hot tub consumers and the entire industry should not put our honesty and integrity in question.
I read your website. Where can I find a complete Terms and Conditions?
Your honesty and integrity gets questioned when you do not give the customer all the details. Nowhere in your first 3 posts did you tell the board that there is a $29 charge for all calls. You also did not tell them that the leak coverage only covers up to $200 and is a one time shot.
If I am not mistaken, no one here has said that you do not do what you claim to do. They are simply saying that they would advise against spending $300/year on your service.
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The terms and conditions page is on our website.
Mark @ Hot Tub Shield
Could you post a link or pm me a link? I personally do not see anything wrong with this program, especially on used tubs. Some companies that sell used spas might use your company as a way to sell their used spas with a warranty.
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Some dealers and techs do not like working with us because the prefer collecting the out of warranty labor charge and part mark-up direct from the consumer. Which can run from $100 to $800.
Correct. If a dealer didnt sell me the warrenty and agree with it's terms, why should they even honer it when you call them up and say "Will you fix Drewstars pump? We'll give you $50)?
???
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We would never call them in the first place if they did not want to participate in our program or in our service net. ÊLess money for them unfortunately. ÊWe have to go around them and give the service work to another tech/dealer.
Mark
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Right. That's a concern for me as a consumer. Like with a car, I'd want the dealer to do the work and not be told It's being farmed out to Joes garage because they are the only ones willing to work for that price or even acknowledge your exisitance as a provider.
On the purchase of a new tub, I'd only even consider an extended warrenty if it was supported by the dealer. (I don't want to get involved in the details of who is paying and participating and such).
However, on a used tub, this might be something of value.
/don't like extended warrenties anyhow. ;)
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Ending my restraint on this subject........................ ;D
Approximately how long after a manufacturers warranty expires can one expect to need to replace their $800 spa pack??? If not within 2 years, you've spent over $900 on insurance for a $800 dollar repair.
Some people like, AND want various forms of optional insurance and extended warranties. Personally, the less I can get away with (some, such as auto and business insurance is required), the happier I am. I understand that insurance and extended warranties are PROFITABLE for the companies selling it. Take yourself Mark. You derive an income from selling this hot tub insurance. That means that of the $300 annual cost, LESS than $300 (on average) goes into repairs, and some of the remainder, into your pocket as income. you have dealers sell these "policies" as well? Are they not also getting a commission, a part of the annual $300?
Did you know that the extended warranties sold by the big box electronic stores are at least 50% profit? That means, that on AVERAGE, the cost of repairs to your item will be 1/2 the cost of that extended warranty.
On the other hand, the idea of adding the warranty to a used spa sold by a dealer is a brilliant marketing idea........... though I think most dealers offering used spas already add their own warranty.
As I said earlier, there are those that want and feel they need every type of insurance available. This too is the type of insurance that can give those type the piece of mind they desire.
Brewman, I've paid homeowners insurance for over 15 years, and never a claim. Am I out all that I paid? Should I cancel the insurance? ;D
Mark, you say "$500+ repair bills are staring the consumer in the face?".... And I ask, how many years have they been out of warranty before needing this repair? If 2 or more, well, you see the better deal.
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Used hot tub dealers that "cover" their own warranties are commiting fraud.
Not disagreeing with you, but how so?
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As a woman.....previously a single mom (12 years)....truck driver....Mark, I'm going to say this simple, sweet and clear. (for me, anyhow...translations available for a modest fee....)
I've been screwed over at car dealerships...I even got the "You can drive stick? No kidding....." line at one....I feel that anyone needs BS scare tactics to buy a GOOD, SOLID insurance package on most high ticket items. If your plan is reasonable, makes sense immediately, doesn't have the fine print or "exclusions" all over the place, and all at a good price?....it'll sell itself with VERY little bragging and hawking.
No one here needs extended insurance plans shoved down their throat. If someone asks about it being available, I think we'll all remember you.....now, if s/he gets sent YOUR direction or not........*shrug* I'm only part time fortune teller, and I left my crystal ball under my bed, next to my tact, sorry.
I'm going to keep my cash available to make any repairs myself, and if the tub starts to nickle and dime me? I'm selling it. See? No insurance needed there, and I saved $300. (Homeowners insurance should cover most of the reasons I'd make a claim, anyhow.)
Have a nice day.
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The fact that you are too lazy to read a website and take a moment to understand what we do and how we help hot tub consumers and the entire industry should not put our honesty and integrity in question.
Mark @ Hot Tub Shield
I bet comments like that close a lot of deals. Makes me wanna buy all kinds of products from you. (insert one of those smilies with the eyes rolling).
Sorry, I'm too lazy to use emoticons.
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I feel that anyone needs BS scare tactics to buy a GOOD, SOLID insurance package on most high ticket items. .
leave it to me to screw up my own stuff. *sigh*
NO ONE needs BS scare tactics......there we go.
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You can just hit the modify button and edit your posts when you are done. ;)
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Too lazy for that too, after all, I am a city employee.
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I would've modified and edited.....but I think it was a bit before I saw my screw up, and just wanted it known that I'm not a complete idiot....just a part time one. ;)
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I'm waiting for a response on this one too. How is it that I am perpetuating fraud when I sell a used hot tub and offer a warranty? I'll restate what I said before, this seems to be a great money maker for the dealer/service companies.
Not disagreeing with you, but how so?
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I like the idea of offering an extended warranty...I also like the idea of offering a used spa warrantee that a customer can purchase. What I don't like is giving that revenue stream to someone out of my control for how they handle the payout...
I think we would be better off charging the customer for the warranty, putting the money in an account specifically set up to honor that warranty and then cashing out on it if there is anything left after the term. If it works for you it should work for me. After all your not covering anything that can’t be replaced to my knowledge. Your covering some labor, and removable components not the shell or structure.
Some of them will be profitable some will not but the ability to make a customer more comfortable is what matters. If I do a good job on referb and selecting new product to sell than I should be able amortize the fund in a way that is profitable in addition to the extra sales I get from the higher comfort level.
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Like Wisoki,
I am waiting for a response from Mark as to why, if a dealer who sells a used hot tub and provides the customer with a warranty from themselves, is committing a fraud. I am offended by your remarks. I sell new spas and I also refurbish and sell used or trade-in spas. As a promise to our customers, we back every one of our used spas up with a written guarentee, varying from 90 days to One Year. Parts and Labor are covered 100% should any repair be needed. Our customers get a spa with a low price and get piece of mind. Tell me where the fraud is in that Mark. You and the original poster have used this forum to promote your new venture and thats fine. The folks on this forum, a mixture of consumers, dealers, techs and factory reps, are simply giving their opinions or two cents worth to your protection plan and your advertising posts. If a spa comes with a five year manufacturers warranty and a customer decides to purchase you plan for the years 6, 7 and 8 at a cost of $900, they are out that money if no repairs are required. If a pump goes at cost of$450, they are out are still $450 in the hole. Or if a $800 control head goes bad, they are still out $100 + a $29.00 service call fee. Most of us, would take our chances after the manufacturers 5 Year warranty has expired, while I'm sure others would opt for the insurance policy. Is it true that Bill B, the owner of what was Adventure Spas is with your firm?
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Ummmm.....if I put in my $.02 now.....can I get that refunded to me at the end of the year? ;D
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You Betcha T-Lady. With interest.
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;D
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I have a customer who wants to purchase this warranty today. He needs it quick though as I have to get over there to replace his pump before his tub freezes.
By the way this is a 15 year old Sundance and he wants to keep it going for a few more years. Your warranty is available to him isn't it?
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Well, I ran a 'whois' on their registry
here is the results
*******************************************
Domain Name: HOTTUBSHIELD.COM
Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: NS.VALUEWEB.NET
Name Server: NS2.VALUEWEB.NET
Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Updated Date: 01-oct-2005
Creation Date: 04-aug-2005
Expiration Date: 04-aug-2006
Registrant:
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
Registered through: GoDaddy.com
Domain Name: HOTTUBSHIELD.COM
Created on: 04-Aug-05
Expires on: 04-Aug-06
Last Updated on: 13-Aug-05
Administrative Contact:
Private, Registration HOTTUBSHIELD.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599
Technical Contact:
Private, Registration HOTTUBSHIELD.COM@domainsbyproxy.com
Domains by Proxy, Inc.
DomainsByProxy.com
15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353
Scottsdale, Arizona 85260
United States
(480) 624-2599
Domain servers in listed order:
NS.VALUEWEB.NET
NS2.VALUEWEB.NET
******************************************
I looked at the web site and could not find the terms and conditions that Mark references. I did find this though.
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Save Money: You’ll always know the cost of every hot tub repair. Never see a costly repair bill.
Minimize Downtime: You’re never without your spa!
Over 4,000 technicians: You never wait for service.
Experienced Service Team: Our telephone support prevents unnecessary service calls.
Common Service Issues: Our standard coverage protects the primary pump and the electronic control pack.
Choice of Coverage: From standard coverage to “bumper-to-bumper” you choose the plan that’s right for you and your spa.
Expertise: The knowledge, experience and professionalism to get your hot tub back into expert working order. Always have peace of mind and order your Hot Tub Shield Protection Plan by utilizing our easy order form. Professional spa service is only a phone call or email away!
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
I'm not sure that a company that has been around for six months is where I want to send my hard earned bucks.
Can they really set up 4000 technicians in that amount of time and find out which ones are good and which are bad.
Bottom line, we are all in business or work to make money and as consumers we want to save money or at least think that we got a good deal. I don't buy the extended warranties when I buy anything. If I did buy a hot tub warranty from my local dealer who assured me that he was going to honour it through the life of the deal, then I would at least know that the guy has to stand up for what he sells to keep a good name in town.
So Mark, show us the link to the terms and conditions and provide some proof that your company is any less fraudulent than a dealer that is selling his own warranty. Does your company belong to any organization of insurers, etc.
It's a free country and I can invite you to leave our forum
Steve
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Further information can be obtained by contacting us directly at www.hot tubshield.com or by email address to mark@hottubshield.com
::)Lame. Just...Lame. ::) Just answer the questions. How do you think the spa consumers would react if they asked about Sundance spas and I said..."go to Sundance's website. All the information is right there."?
There will always be questions, that is why these forums are great. You can get MOSTLY unbiased opinions and facts that you cannot find at a dealership/website.
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...It's a free country and I can invite you to leave our forum
I wouldn't be too harsh on the guy. The question was raised by a member asking about the service. The question could have been a "plant", but regardless, I think it's a legit topic.
The forum guidelines state:
The message board/reviews section are not a forum for advertising/marketing
your products or services. ¾WhatsTheBest.net?s administrators and moderators
will be the final word in determining what constitutes advertising. ¾The
standard may vary between product groups and with time.
Note to retailers/manufacturers: ¾You may display an email address that has
your business URL listed and/or note the company you work for in your
profile if you link to the WhatsTheBest.net home page of the product in
question from your company?s primary home page. ¾Permission to enter into
this arrangement will be decided on a case by case by WhatsTheBest.net
administrators/moderators.
Mark is boardering on this, but since the question about the company he represents was asked, I think it's fair that he respond.
Overall, I'm thrilled when our group of hot tub nuts gets a visit from a vendor that can directly tell us about thier product.
Some of the tone of his replies I didn't care for, but that's his choice. I don't think he should be asked to leave. I think it would put him in the best light if he did answer the questions asked.
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Since he chose to start posting only when his product got mentioned, I doubt he'd stick around much after this thread dies out, anyway. I don't see that he's done anything to merit banning.
IMHO
his product doesn't offer any value, his own comportment on this thread shows a lack of professionalism that would also raise a red flag with me wanting to give his company any money, and the web sites not freely disclosing the limitations on their program doesn't sit well with me either.
Plus the math just doesn't add up- By the time you pay the $300 for the plan mentioned, or up over $400 for other one year plans, and add on the $30 fee to use the plan after you've already paid for it, you almost just break even on that mythical $500 repair he keeps tossing out there. So what have your really gained?
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To me its very scary. New start up spa insurance companies taking a lot of money up front, from posssibly thousands of consumers, against possible repairs 2 and 3 years from now. The consumer has to hope that the company will still be around if and when their spa actually breaks. I also, question the statement of 4000 techs waiting to serve them. I have been a spa tech for 20 years now and I do not think there are 4000 spa techs in United States. I live in New Jersey, the most populated state in America, per square mile and there are only about 18 spa techs in the entire state. I know the techs throughout New Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania, as I am Spa Tech Instructor in my region. There may be 2000 spa techs in the country which equates to about 40 techs per state. I think even that number is high. Dave.
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And just how many of them will be jumping at the chance to do service for this company? Don't they brag about getting labor discounts?
Would a busy spa tech agree to work for a discount?
This reminds me a lot of those home warranty companies- they have similar plans, costs, and deductibles. But all you ever hear about those companies is when the go under or get sued.
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Something that I know a lot about is insurance. I actually just got back from London on business dealing with re-insurers and had some meetings at the Lloyd’s building.
Due to the fact that the Hottub Shield is a Nevada Insurance Company (or at least it appears this way), consumers should be able to search the Nevada Department of Insurance’s website for licensed insurance companies.
My search came up empty. I looked under the name hottubshield.com. Hopefully, Mark at the Hottub Shield can tell us the name of his company that is licensed under the state of Nevada (or another state/name) so we can all do a search. I also searched the Pennsylvania Department of Insurance’s site as well and came up empty.
Here is the link to find out if a company is licensed in Nevada to sell insurance. http://www.nvinsurancealert.com/search/index.php
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There was also mention of Arizona somewhere.
Maybe that's where they're domiciled.
I'm also in the insurance industry, and my company has to be appointed by any state insurance department in which we do business. And we're in all 50 states.
(Even NY!)
Wonder if warranty companies have the same requirement? To be licensed by each state in which the solicit business.
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The insurance company is TAW, or Television and Appliance warranty, Inc. There are many companies that use TAW. TAW is the main company, places like hottubshield.com are just the marketing side of it.
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so the 4000 techs they have may not all hot tub techs?
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I don't know. That would be a good thing for the hotubshield guy to answer.
So, here are the questions he should provide answers for, not a link to a website.
1) Are the 4000 techs all hot tub techs? Or are they just techs that are affilliated with TAW?
2) How is a company offering a warranty on a used spa commting fraud?
3) Is there a COMPLETE terms and regulations page on the website? Is the BASIC terms the same thing? If the basic is different than the complete, please post a link.
There are many people here that have questions, and many of them have the same questions. To ask all of them to email you kind of defeats the purpose of a web forum. You can answer the questions for these folks all in one shot. Rather than email after email.
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Game and Set to the good people of this forum.
The Match is still to be decided.
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i just got done talking to a couple of attornies. i myself sell recondtioned spas with warranties. most are90 to a year warranty. the attornies that i talk to say that there is no consurmer frod with what i am doing.
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Of Course not. A dealer of used hot tubs providing a warranty on a used reconditioned hot tub, is just like a carpenter putting a guarentee on his work or a auto mechanic giving you a warranty or guarentee for his workmanship. It was just another comment from Mark (Bill) that people on this forum have questions about. I'm sure if you put a warranty on your used spas, you will uphold it. Dave.
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Where is Mark I want to hear what his comments are on the remarks posted here
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he's the newest member of the Witness Protection Program now. His name has legally been changed to Sylvia Spatholz, and he's in Reno.
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Fraud would be taking money for something under false pretences. How extending a warranty to a used spa is fraud is beyond me.
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Mark
Uh Mark, where are you?
Hello!
Oh well, lights out I guess.
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I am not sure if this applies here or not. but many extended warranties that are offered for autos and that are NOT extensions offered by the manufactures many times become useless, What many people do not understand is that is that when you buy say a 5 year or 75,000 mile extended warranty taking in consideration that most of today's cars come with a 3 year/ 36000 mile warranty what you are really buying is 2 years or 39000 miles the extened starts from day one and in addition the after market company's are not on the hook until the factory expires and many will fold about 3 years after issuing the warranty just about the time the factory expires. I know nothing about this shield warranty but it seems pricey at best and I would question weather or not they will be around for more than 2 or 3 years.
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2 or 3 YEARS? He's been on here 2 or 3 days so far, and has apparently gone into hiding after being asked some in depth type questions...that or he's all tuckered out from hot-footin' around town, with the hoardes of people begging for extended coverage for their tub.
When he's had time to relax, have a beer, soak in his hot tub (with the UBER extended warranty thru heat shield or whatever), I'm sure he'll be back to respond to all the questions about his FINE product, and how spending just a few dollars NOW could save you THOUSANDS in the next few years.
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OMG.....I just checked my e-mail and could not believe how many reply notices that I had. I’m sorry for opening a can of worms. I did not post the question as a plant. I visit this forum almost daily but had no idea how much this topic grew from the last time I read it. The only reason that I did not reply originally was because I thought the topic was dead and did not want the bump the post up. Well, I guess that one has been answered (several times over)
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Much better, stick around for a while, it's a great forum.
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Mark or Bill,
I know you said you would not post again. But, I think you recieved the benefit of marketing your new company on this forum, but have left everyone here with questions left unanswered. I still do not agree with your statement that a spa dealer that is selling a used spa and offering a gurarentee, is some how breaking a law or is defrauding the public. I have to tell you, I feel much safer buying a used spa from the dealers on this forum, with a 1 year dealer sponsored guarentee, than I do buying a used spa with a warranty from a extended warranty company. Like most people on this site, we have seen these extended warranty sellers come and go. Call me doubting Thomas, but I still have trouble with your claim of 4000 spa service companies that work for you. Your customers and potencial customers that you have been marketing your company to on this forum, should be able to go to your site and click on any state in the union and see the 4000 spa service companies on your payroll. I believe there to be only about 2000 spa service companies in the country, so even if every company worked for you that would still fall well short of 4000. How many of these busy service companies would actually want to work for extended warranty companies at a pre-set discounted flat rates and then have to file paper work and wait for companies to hopefully pay them for their time. We get calls from extended warranty companies frequently and like our other local competitors do not except work from any of them. I understand that you sell a insurance product underwritten by TAW, which has been around for a long time, but you speak as if your company has been in the spa warranty business for a long time. It is my understanding that Bill, started the company about three months ago, shortly after he began contacting companies himself, about his new company. I think it is great Bill started a new company, and I wish him all the best in his new endeavor, but you should tell people about your new history and put that info on the company profile or about us link on your web site, instead of giving people the impression that Hot Tub Shield has been in the spa warranty business for years, with 4000 techs ready and able to magically show up with 24 hours and fix their spa. Maybe you will address some of theses questions in the future or provide more info on your site for consumers considering your extended warranties. Again, Best of Luck. Dave.
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How many of these busy service companies would actually want to work for extended warranty companies at a pre-set discounted flat rates and then have to file paper work and wait for companies to hopefully pay them for their time.
Amen to that! Not only do you have the worry of them paying your labor, you also have to worry about reimbursement for the parts that you have already purchased and installed! I used to be able to tell you the state of the economy, without reading a business journal, by the amount of claims that were rejected for some inane reason or another. They (TAW) just about shut down my company by denying over $3000 in claims just after 9/11. You can't include my company in the 4000+ service tech total!
I'm sure his pitch sounds good to some, but beware, most people I know in the repair business would not touch TAW with a ten foot pole.
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I'm going to call it a draw. Very proffesional.