Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: tanstaafl2 on February 11, 2006, 02:17:47 pm

Title: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: tanstaafl2 on February 11, 2006, 02:17:47 pm
who are "married" in the hot tub business.  :o

Jacuzzi owns Sundance, Hot Springs owns Tiger River, etc.

Is there any sight that says who owns who or what company makes spas for what brand line? And are the differences between lines so significant that one is clearly better than another? I am having a hard time figuring which ones are apples and which ones are oranges in trying to figure out what is a reasonable price to pay!

Almost enough to make consider the sheer hell of buying a used car... :P

OK, not really but it does seem rather complex. A J-365 compared to a Sundance Optima for example if they are the same company. Or a Caldera Aspire/Hawaiian. Or a Vita Nuage. And the list goes on!  

Vita doesn't seem to be a name on a lot of "best spa company" recommendations lists in other threads here by the way. Any reason for that?
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: Wisoki on February 11, 2006, 04:57:20 pm
Quote
OK, not really but it does seem rather complex. A J-365 compared to a Sundance Optima for example if they are the same company. Or a Caldera Aspire/Hawaiian. Or a Vita Nuage. And the list goes on!  

Vita doesn't seem to be a name on a lot of "best spa company" recommendations lists in other threads here by the way. Any reason for that?


I'd have to say yes. Firs off, Vita is in no way affiliated with Caldera. Watkins MFG. makes Caldera and Hot Spring spas. Jacuzzi Products, Inc. Makes Jacuzzi spas and Sundance Spas. The 365 is awesome, buy it, you'll love it. I sell Caldera.
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: dpgtech on February 11, 2006, 05:30:01 pm
Jacuzzis Brands, INc. does own sundance but the products are different.  if I had to make an analogy Iwould say diamler Chrysler same owner but obviously the Chrysler and mercedes benz are different products.  the J-365 is agreat spa and so is the optima.  Personally I like the J-365, because I do sell Jacuzzi
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: hymbaw on February 11, 2006, 05:57:50 pm
Jacuzzi and Sundance are owned by the same parent company.....they are not the same company. They are not built at the same plant, even though the $$$ end up in the same pockets.

IMHO the Jacuzzi 300 series is a good tub that feature wise would be closer to a Sundance Bahia with a waterfall than an Optima.
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: dpgtech on February 11, 2006, 06:50:17 pm
Have they recently moved the Jacuzzi Factory?  The last time I checked they were both made in the same plant in Chino. The 315-345 would be comparable to the the sundance 700 series which includes the Bahia, but the 355-385 have more features than the sundance 700 series. IMHO
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: spahappy on February 11, 2006, 08:06:38 pm
Quote
Have they recently moved the Jacuzzi Factory?  The last time I checked they were both made in the same plant in Chino. The 315-345 would be comparable to the the sundance 700 series which includes the Bahia, but the 355-385 have more features than the sundance 700 series. IMHO



They are made at the the same plant. The J-365 is a great tub. Lots of power and therapy options. Less money than a Sundance with many of the same features.
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: tony on February 11, 2006, 10:12:34 pm
Quote


They are made at the the same plant. The J-365 is a great tub. Lots of power and therapy options. Less money than a Sundance with many of the same features.


Exactly right.  Although Jacuzzi Brands owns Sundance, it is Sundance, the wholly owned company that dismantled the old Jacuzzi Whirlpool Bath spas and created Jacuzzi Premium Spas in the Sundance mold.  Part of the original deal was that Sundance would operate as its own company with their management team and take over production of all Jacuzzi hottubs.  The top of the line 800 series Sundance spas will always have the newest engineering and bells and whistles for two years ahead of the JP and SD 700 series.

That being said, the Jacuzzi Premium 385 is a lot of spa for the money and IMO the best value the companies offer.
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: J._McD on February 12, 2006, 12:56:22 pm
IMHO, Jacuzzi, listed on the stock exchange, bought Sundance to improve it's product lines and it's acceptance in the industry.  Great name for advertising, but less than stellar results in "Jacuzzi" dealer growth, marketing acceptance and/or product acceptance.  So they bought one of the industry leaders.  They now own Sundance Manufacturing who makes the Jacuzzi product at its manufacturing facility.

Watkins Mfg. was purchased by Masco Corp, listed on the stock exchange, who bought up several other Hot Tub manufacturers including Caldera.  Masco product lines are consistent with home products.

The industry is now 30 years old and private ownership is now being absorbed by investor dollars as the industry has grown substantially and is no longer considered a concept that only a small segemnt of population is interested in.  

This industry will grow much larger in the future and will manufacturer larger numbers of units as consumer demands grow.  Corporate America along with investors are begining to buy up the privately held companies and are primarily interested in the bottom line, return on investment.

It is my opinion that the private segment of the market is more interested in dealers and consumers as their future growth and many of them are realizing the bottom line of profitability, as well.  As long as they remain comfortable, they will remain private.  

While on the other hand, investors and corporate America is on the look out for investment opportunity.  While they too must care for their marketing arms to bring in market share, they tend to be more cost conscious in manufacturing and more aware of the competition that they are losing market share to and why.

Corporate owned companies are pushing for increased sales, larger dealers, market share, the containment of production cost, and keeping abreast of the competition and have become less sensitive to their consumer.  

Private companies who were resistant to change or be different and are now corporate owned have been released from the old ways of their thinking, and are now begining to implement significant changes to increase maketshare duplicating what the competitors are doing and consumers are buying, like fancy lighting, waterfalls, built in water care, stereos and fashionable colors.

Kind of like monopoly.  They are buying up the propeties. ;)

It is like one large family, as they all are begining to imitate each other.

I think it makes for a better selection and products are more appealing today as most all of the growing pains and bugs have been worked out over the past 3 decades.

Just my opinions. ::)
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: salesdvl on February 12, 2006, 01:37:32 pm
Yea,   what he said.   ;)
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: Vinny on February 12, 2006, 06:34:41 pm
I'm not a dealer and I will agree to what  J._McD said except that I think all the spa companies are looking for ways to suck the money out of the consumer.  I think that some companies get you at the time of sale and some after the sale.

Whether it's a spa frog system or disposable filter or a revolutionary new santizing product ... their all gimmicks to make the dealer some money but more importantly the manufacturer even more money. And it's interesting to see how most of the dealers that I went to only carry 1 of the "families" line ... great marketing statergy on the big boys, they get the dealers to "fight their battle" and possibly sell one of their products. I would guess to say that most people who shop for a spa don't know too much about the families. I'm not saying it's wrong but equivilent to GM fighting against each other and commanding a larger maket share for the parent company.

I own a Artesian and I have microban filters, I'm sure that these filters are knd of expensive and last probably 2 years. Now they have disposable filters so that you need to by them probably every 6 to 8 months. This brings in extra $$ for them. Disposable anything is a great convience but costs more money for the consumer.  

Corporate America is going to gobble up and ruin the spa industry as it did all the other industries it attaches itself to. In the grand scheme of things, we are all just numbers to them that they MUST have buy their product.
Title: Re: Seems to be a lot of "relatives"
Post by: galen on February 12, 2006, 09:52:36 pm
Very good reading J. McD. This very same thing happened to the outboard motors in the fishing industry. Just a very few parent companies own all outboards. Yamaha and Merc are the very same.