Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: pratzert on January 11, 2006, 10:55:40 am

Title: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 11, 2006, 10:55:40 am
I know there are two camps on the subject of Ozone. But I want to state that for me it works ! I have a Jacuzzi J-350 that I've had for a couple of years. Apparently the ozonator stopped working but I did not notice that the Ozone symbal stopped appearing on my display. For a couple of months recently, I just could not stay ahead of keeping my water crystal clean like it usually is. My wife also started complaining of the odor. I was adding more chlorine than ever and it would not clear up completely. Well, I finally discovered that the ozonator was not working and replaced it with a brand new unit. Lo and behold, perfect water again within a couple of days of installing the new unit. Smells great too !
So, say what you want, but I am now, absolutely convinced of the benefits of an ozonator in a spa.
Before anyone says it.... NO... I do NOT work for any pool or spa company and have nothing to do with selling ozonators. I'm just a poor working slob who has a hot tub.
Just wanted to tell you all "my" experience.
Also, thanks to John Frye ( n1oty) for his help in selling me the replacement ozonator.
Tim

Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: drewstar on January 11, 2006, 11:01:42 am
What type of ordor did you smell?  
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on January 11, 2006, 11:12:23 am
Quote
I know there are two camps on the subject of Ozone. But I want to state that for me it works !


We're in the same camp on this one. Nothing gets between me and my CD ozonator.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 11, 2006, 11:12:34 am
It was like a stale, musty, dirty sock odor.

Since replacing the ozonator, it's fresh and mildly sweet.

Very pleasant now.

Tim
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: drewstar on January 11, 2006, 11:15:01 am
Quote
It was like a stale, musty, dirty sock odor.

Since replacing the ozonator, it's fresh and mildly sweet.

Very pleasant now.

Tim


Yup. Dirty sock odor. I Experienced it once when I was low on sanitizer.  
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 11, 2006, 11:25:35 am
Thing of it was... I wasn't low on sanitizer.  I had been shocking like heck to try to clear it up.

But the ozonator put it over the top.  Cleared up the water and converted to a clean smell.

I have read that the ozone systems for spas have improved a great deal with the addition of the "mixing chambers" that keep the ozone in contact with the water for a longer period of time.

I never dreamed it made such a huge difference in the water quality.

Tim

Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Wisoki on January 11, 2006, 11:50:36 am
OK, great news that you are happy with your ozonator. However, you say you were adding more chlorine than ever. Is that to say you were shocking the water with chlorine. See the issue there is when the water contains chloramines, adding more chlorine does not help. That is when you add potasiummonopersulfate, or other names "Activate" "Spa Shock" "Renu" etc. This product burns out excessive organics, and turns the chloramines back in to chlorine, and TA DAAAaaa no more dirty sock smell, and no ozonater needed. Just some info for those that do not have, need or want an ozone unit also sometimes called "The most common reason for gfci tripping."  

Quote
Thing of it was... I wasn't low on sanitizer.  I had been shocking like heck to try to clear it up.

But the ozonator put it over the top.  Cleared up the water and converted to a clean smell.

I have read that the ozone systems for spas have improved a great deal with the addition of the "mixing chambers" that keep the ozone in contact with the water for a longer period of time.

I never dreamed it made such a huge difference in the water quality.

Tim


Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: SerjicalStrike on January 11, 2006, 12:09:26 pm
You and I are in the same camp.

Quote
OK, great news that you are happy with your ozonator. However, you say you were adding more chlorine than ever. Is that to say you were shocking the water with chlorine. See the issue there is when the water contains chloramines, adding more chlorine does not help. That is when you add potasiummonopersulfate, or other names "Activate" "Spa Shock" "Renu" etc. This product burns out excessive organics, and turns the chloramines back in to chlorine, and TA DAAAaaa no more dirty sock smell, and no ozonater needed.

Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on January 11, 2006, 12:27:58 pm
Quote
You and I are in the same camp.



Our tents smell like fresh linen.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: ssbraun on January 11, 2006, 12:28:20 pm
Quote
See the issue there is when the water contains chloramines, adding more chlorine does not help.


Not so...shocking with chlorine destroys chloramines just as well as adding MPS non-chlorine shock.  Both are strong oxidizers.  Benefit of MPS is that you can enter the spa 15 minutes later, where chlorine shock naturally results in higher ppm chlorine which must drop down below 5 ppm before spa use.
Title: One of the best siRe: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 11, 2006, 12:34:10 pm
SSBRAUN,

Yes... you are correct.   The secret to "shocking" with chlorine is to use enough to cause a super chlorination "break-point" to break apart the chloramines.

I've learned a lot having a swimming pool for 8 years and "most" of the same chemistry applies to spas.

One of the best sites to learn about water treatment and chemistry is from poolforum.com.

Tim
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Dr. Spa™ Ret. on January 11, 2006, 01:16:19 pm
Quote

Not so...shocking with chlorine destroys chloramines just as well as adding MPS non-chlorine shock.  Both are strong oxidizers.  


This is only partially correct. To shock with chlorine you HAVE to add enough chloring to reach a FAC level 10 times higher than the combined chlorine level. IF you don't reach this FAC level you wont be breaking down any of the combined chlorine, but will be adding to it.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Mendocino101 on January 11, 2006, 01:22:10 pm
Quote

Yup. Dirty sock odor. I Experienced it once when I was low on sanitizer.  

I did too.....It was after a long day walking at Disneyland.....and well....when I took my shoes.....off....I was looking for the dichlor... ;)
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: lawdawgva on January 11, 2006, 01:52:54 pm
I like the ozonator personally because it reduces the amount of chems you will be putting in your water.  Any way you look at it, the fewer chems you're putting into the water you're soaking in has to be a good thing.

-Sarge
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Anoroc on January 11, 2006, 01:56:48 pm
Quote

 To shock with chlorine you HAVE to add enough chloring to reach a FAC level 10 times higher than the combined chlorine level. IF you don't reach this FAC level you wont be breaking down any of the combined chlorine, but will be adding to it.


Just curios: What is FAC level?  Are you saying using chlorine to shock is not good, or impractical or too difficult?  How do you measure FAC levels?

I use enhanced spa shock myself about once every two weeks.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: SerjicalStrike on January 11, 2006, 01:58:16 pm
Free Available Chlorine

FAC + Combined Chlorine = Total Chlorine
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 11, 2006, 02:06:41 pm
The "Best" way to measure your chemical levels, particularly, pH and FAC/Chlorine, is by using a "Drop Test" kit reather than the strips.

You can pick up a drop test kit at most pool stores such as Leslie's.

Tim
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: SerjicalStrike on January 11, 2006, 02:17:27 pm
Test strips are quick, easy, and accurate.  I would use whatever you feel comfortable using and not make a special purchase of a drop test if you have no problem using the test strips.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 11, 2006, 02:26:03 pm
I think if he wants to measure his FAC his is going to need the Drop test.

Do they make a test strip for the FAC ?

Yes, test strips are OK for a quick test.  But The drop test is much, much more accuarte for testing your TDS, alkalinity, Calcium levels etc.

I was able to buy an actual electronic pH tester for about $50 on ebay and it was well worth it since I have a pool & spa.  I use it keep an eye on my well water pH level too!

Some people have difficulty using test strips AND Drop testers because of color blindness and the fine line between colors that many people can't discern.

I do sometimes cheat and use a test strip in the middle of the week to check things, and then do a more thourough test on the weekends when I hose off my filters and clean out my strainer bag. ( On the spa I mean...)  ;D
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: SerjicalStrike on January 11, 2006, 03:39:07 pm
Regular test strips only check for FAC.  You can get special strips that test for Total and FAC, and from there you can determine your combined chlorine.

I don't understand where you would need to be more thorough.  The test strips are jsut as accurate.  The only difference may be that the drops are more precise.  If you need to be that precise, then more power to you.  
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 11, 2006, 04:08:30 pm
To check the calcium levels perhaps.

Or to see how much combined chlorine is in the water to be sure to shock with enough chlorine.

Test strips have a limited "Range" for such tests.

Even with the chlorine level, the test strip might only show a top end of say 4.0.   So you know that you've hit the top range of the reading, but NOT how high the chlorine actually is.

Same with the pH.  I have very acidic well water,  a test strip might only have a low end of 6 but my water may be 5.  That is a HUGH difference in pH and would require adding a different amount of base to bring it up.  Granted... you could keep adding in small doses until it comes into a readable range on a test strip , but with a drop tester I can do all at once and not spend all day beside my tub checking and adjusting.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: wmccall on January 11, 2006, 04:11:49 pm
I'm in a similar situation except no odor.  Tommorow, I'll probably open it up,see what type of ozonator I have. I'm pretty sure it is supposed to be CD, then find out here how I fix it.  Mine is nearly 3 years old.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: J._McD on January 11, 2006, 04:34:08 pm
Quote
I know there are two camps on the subject of Ozone. But I want to state that for me it works ! ................Apparently the ozonator stopped working but I did not notice that the Ozone symbal stopped appearing on my display. For a couple of months recently, I just could not stay ahead of keeping my water crystal clean like it usually is. My wife also started complaining of the odor. I was adding more chlorine than ever and it would not clear up completely. Well, I finally discovered that the ozonator was not working and replaced it with a brand new unit. Lo and behold, perfect water again within a couple of days of installing the new unit. Smells great too !
So, say what you want, but I am now, absolutely convinced of the benefits of an ozonator in a spa.
Before anyone says it.... NO... I do NOT work for any pool or spa company and have nothing to do with selling ozonators. I'm just a poor working slob who has a hot tub.
Just wanted to tell you all "my" experience........

Pratzert, I always stick out like a sore thumb on this subject, but believe me, I know both what you're saying and experiencing.  The power of ozone is often misunderstood and poorly under rated by many in the industry.  But then, why is it that manufacturers like HS are making it "standard" on their HS models at an increased cost to the dealers who do not necessarily support it or believe in it?

Ozone will be better understood and revered years in the future when consumers like yourself unknowingly will discover the truth as I have experienced it to be. ;)

I can feel the heat coming now, but did you notice how this thread turned into a chemical discussion? ;D
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Vinny on January 11, 2006, 06:01:10 pm
If it is effective, I don't know why spa companies don't get a lab to prove it is. All the research that I've done in ozone on the internet has come up with comercial drinking water info. That technique is MUCH different than a spa's technique.

I can't see why a lab equiped with the correct analyzer can't have a tub next to it and get a reading. I can't see why a spa's ozone manufacturer wouldn't want that info too. I would think that Del would like the opportunity to get people on the band wagon with ozone for pools too.

I guess it can work and I use it in case it works but until it's proven, I'm a doubter in it's cost vs usefulness.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 11, 2006, 06:26:00 pm
wmccall....  The life expectancy of the CD "Chip" is supposedly around 10,000 hours.  At 24 hours per day the chip should only last a little more than one year.
So if yours is 3 years old, it's probably a goner. Oh, BTW, you can usually replace just the chip and not the entire ozonator.


Vinny....  I agree with you about hard and fast scientific proof about the benefits of ozone versus the cost.
And that is exactly why I sort of prefaced my original post about their being two camps.

I paid the extra for ozone when I bought the tub as a "just in case" it really makes a difference. And when paying over $6,000 for a tub, another $300 did not make me falter on my decision to purchase the tub at all.

I only resurrected this usually hot topic because "I" had observed what "I" perceived to be a radical difference in the quality of the water.  It's strictly "my" observation and opinion.

After having the tub for several years, I know how to take care of it, and balance the chemicals, so "I" am confident it was the ozonator that made the difference.

It is, and shoud be, a personal choice.  I didn't know the mfg were forcing them down the dealers throats.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Wisoki on January 11, 2006, 10:42:28 pm
The only chemical you are adding less of (supposedly) is chlorine, ozone does nothing to stabilize pH it has no affect on ALK, it cannot prevent calcium precipitation.

Quote
I like the ozonator personally because it reduces the amount of chems you will be putting in your water.  Any way you look at it, the fewer chems you're putting into the water you're soaking in has to be a good thing.

-Sarge

Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Wisoki on January 11, 2006, 11:02:47 pm
Quote
The power of ozone is often misunderstood and poorly under rated by many in the industry.  But then, why is it that manufacturers like HS are making it "standard" on their HS models at an increased cost to the dealers who do not necessarily support it or believe in it?


Does the word proffits mean anything to you?

Quote
Ozone will be better understood and revered years in the future when consumers like yourself unknowingly will discover the truth as I have experienced it to be. ;)


That and extraterestrial life ;)
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Wisoki on January 11, 2006, 11:07:04 pm
Enhance is meerly MPS with a chlorine additive.

Quote
I use enhanced spa shock myself about once every two weeks.

Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Neptuner on January 11, 2006, 11:48:02 pm
This may be a dumb question, but if ozonators are so beneficial, why not have 2 of them in the spa? Or 3, or 4?
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: lawdawgva on January 12, 2006, 12:30:57 am
Quote
The only chemical you are adding less of (supposedly) is chlorine, ozone does nothing to stabilize pH it has no affect on ALK, it cannot prevent calcium precipitation.



Exactly Wisoki......and while we all know we are swimming in a chemical "soup" in a hottub anyway, why not lessen the amount of any chemical which we must add to the water.  This is a personal choice for me and each spa owner has to make choices which are right for them.

I am fortunate to add very few chemicals to my tub between water changes.  My ph and Alk usually drift downward over time so I might add a few oz. of Baking soda to raise that, but other than the shock once a week, that's it.

I do like the Enhanced Shock by SpaGuard.  Besides the oxidizing agents, it contains a flocculent/clarifier and a ph buffer to prevent swings.  I use about 2 1/2 Tbsp a week and it does a great job.

-Sarge
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 12, 2006, 08:32:48 am
Neptuner.....

There are now ozonators that have different "outputs" of ozone.  No reason to have two ozonators that put out 50 if you can install one that puts out 100.

Like everything in life, too much of anything is not good.

Too much ozone would eat away at the pillows and cover of the spa, just like too much chlorine would.

It's all about hitting a happy medium, which is why they call it "Water Balancing".

One good thing about a spa, unlike a swimming pool, if you mess up the water severely, it's not the end of the world to drain it and start over.

Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Wisoki on January 12, 2006, 08:51:33 am
Right, but in an earlier post you stated...

Quote

I like the ozonator personally because it reduces the amount of chems you will be putting in your water.  Any way you look at it, the fewer chems you're putting into the water you're soaking in has to be a good thing.
 
-Sarge


Which is a missleading statement. You aren't adding less chemicals plural. You are adding less chlorine. The way it was stated erlier makes it sound like ozone is some kind of miracle that allows you to not have to maintain water quality.

Quote

Exactly Wisoki......and while we all know we are swimming in a chemical "soup" in a hottub anyway, why not lessen the amount of any chemical which we must add to the water.  This is a personal choice for me and each spa owner has to make choices which are right for them.

I am fortunate to add very few chemicals to my tub between water changes.  My ph and Alk usually drift downward over time so I might add a few oz. of Baking soda to raise that, but other than the shock once a week, that's it.

I do like the Enhanced Shock by SpaGuard.  Besides the oxidizing agents, it contains a flocculent/clarifier and a ph buffer to prevent swings.  I use about 2 1/2 Tbsp a week and it does a great job.

-Sarge

Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Wisoki on January 12, 2006, 08:57:50 am
Sorry Y'all, I swear I'm not knit picking, but there's enough miss information running around in this industry as it is. So I might sound a little whacky about this but clear concise info is some what important.

Quote
Right, but in an earlier post you stated...


Which is a missleading statement. You aren't adding less chemicals plural. You are adding less chlorine. The way it was stated erlier makes it sound like ozone is some kind of miracle that allows you to not have to maintain water quality.


Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: ssbraun on January 12, 2006, 11:44:24 am
Quote

This is only partially correct. To shock with chlorine you HAVE to add enough chloring to reach a FAC level 10 times higher than the combined chlorine level. IF you don't reach this FAC level you wont be breaking down any of the combined chlorine, but will be adding to it.


Good info, good Doctor!  Actually, it  would be a good addition to the explanation of shocking on your own website, as I'm sure many out there are not aware of this important requirement!

SB
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: ssbraun on January 12, 2006, 12:19:40 pm
BTW, here's another interesting read on ozone from the EPA:

www.epa.gov/owm/mtb/ozon.pdf

Sorry...don't know how to make it a link, but this is the address.

Steve
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: lawdawgva on January 12, 2006, 12:39:26 pm
I truly don't think I'm misleading by my previous statement.  I believe that I am adding fewer chemicals (plural) because of the benefit of my ozonator.  I've read many posts on this board where people are suffering from various water issues and are talking about enzymes, clarifiers, softeners and a myriad of other chemicals they are adding to their tubs.

IMHO, I believe that due to the effectiveness of the ozonator as a sanitzer/oxidizer, I have been able to avoid having many of those water issues and therefore, haven't had to correct them by adding any other chemicals.  

I'm not sure about posts on this board, but I do know that Del, the company I purchased my ozonator from, made no claims about the ozonator eliminating the need for any other work toward good water quality.  As a matter of fact, the literature I read and the salesman I dealt with made it clear that ozone compliments your preferred sanitizing routine and allows you to use much less of that particular chemical.  Since my whole idea was eliminating as many chemicals as I could, thats why I chose the Nature2 mineral cartridge as a part of my total routine.

-Sarge
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 12, 2006, 12:56:57 pm
sarge...

I agree with you totally.

I AM adding LESS chemical(S) ( plural ) in "my" opinion since I add not only LESS chlorine, but as you said, I don't have to add clarifiers, oxidizers, enzymes, or any of the other things people sell.

And, in my opinion, it's because of my ozonator.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: drewstar on January 12, 2006, 01:02:59 pm
Well if you want to really nit pick....

Ozone is a chemical. Water is too.



Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 12, 2006, 01:56:29 pm
No.... Not me !

"I" don't want to nit pick....

Actually when a human being gets into the tub, it's putting more chemicals into the tub.

Then there is the variable of altitude determining the "amount" of chemicals dispensed into the spa.

How do you measure "more or less"?  At a higher altitude as pressure decreases and particles become less dense and compressed, when you put in an ounce of something, is it determined by the volume of the item or the weight?

 Oh Oh.... that means we have to consider the effects of gravity on the "weight" of the chemicals being dispensed..... each of which can be affected by atmospheric pressure and gravity. ( Don't forget about the ambient temperature being a factor.)

Bill Clinton was nit-picking when he said " I did NOT have sex with that woman !"

Nope.... not me.... i don't wanna play
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: J._McD on January 12, 2006, 03:19:30 pm
Quote
Does the word proffits mean anything to you?

That and extraterestrial life ;)

You are right, I can make more profit in selling chemicals as indicated in this thread than I can installing and replacing ozonators, so I am really a foolish businessperson to encourage the use of ozone, thus reducing chemical sales and even reducing our potential for greater profits.  Then again, we could sell an exclusive chemical line and double those chemical profits and abandon the concept of ozone.

As for extraterrestrial life, It was really a weather balloon in Roswell NM that gave birth to area 51 that never really existed because it is now out of commission and no longer a working military base even though commercial satellite photography clearly proves different.

Quote
Well if you want to really nit pick....
Ozone is a chemical. Water is too.

I am not a chemical engineer but I do believe Ozone is a gas with a chemical symbol as it can not be created by chemical compound

Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: windsurfdog on January 12, 2006, 05:04:36 pm
...spare the dichlor, spoil the tub...


For me, tub sanitation includes products that are regularly used (proactive) and those used when needed (reactive).  Dichlor, MPS, ozone, mineral filters/sticks fall under proactive.  Water balance chems (sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, sodium bisulfate), clarifier, defoamer are reactive and are used only when needed.  Clarifier is RARELY used....maybe once every 4-6 months if the water isn't monitored properly....but it is effective when needed.  Anything else is not needed for me.

But, IMHO, to think that ozone is the magic pill for all is not good advice.  Water quality out of the tap varies too much for one thing....what works for me with 7.4 pH, 100 TA and 200 CH out of the tap won't work the same for someone whose water is not as well balanced initially.  Personally, I think the key to using fewer chemicals is patience.  I'm using WAY less chems now after 1.5 years with my tub than I did initially...and I can imagine getting even better after having my tub as long as some of the other soakers that post here.  The difference between using .5-1 tsp. of dichlor after soaking compared to using 1-2 tsp. of dichlor isn't enough to worry about.  And I'd certainly rather err on the high side than have sour water.  

I  see more ozone value when considering shocking.  I think ozone helps keep chloramines at bay continuously and keeps me from having to shock as much.

That'll be $.02, please...... 8)
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: pratzert on January 12, 2006, 05:20:07 pm
windsurfdog...

I agree with you.  I think many new spa owners approach balancing their water with the idea that "if a little is good, more is better".  Not true !  
And...  it's a real good idea to add any chemicals ONE at a time and WAIT for a while to test/re-test your water to give the chemicals time to circulate and "Balance".

Like you, I find I use most chemicals in moderation and I do attribute that to the "help" of the ozonator.


But I still use other things in the spa, like chlorine, calcium, base or acid as needed for pH.   I don't think I've EVER used anything else other than a crystal fragrance occasionally and a very small dose of defoamer.  If I see that I am struggling more and more to keep the tub crystal or have to add defoamer, it's time to do a water change anyway.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: tony on January 12, 2006, 05:24:06 pm
Quote

I do like the Enhanced Shock by SpaGuard.  Besides the oxidizing agents, it contains a flocculent/clarifier and a ph buffer to prevent swings.  I use about 2 1/2 Tbsp a week and it does a great job.

-Sarge


Enhanced Shock by SpaGuard is a mixture of MPS and dichlor along with other agents with dichlor making up 58.2% of the product.  By shocking with Enhanced Shock, you are adding chlorine which is why the system is working.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: lawdawgva on January 12, 2006, 07:50:35 pm
Quote

Enhanced Shock by SpaGuard is a mixture of MPS and dichlor along with other agents with dichlor making up 58.2% of the product.  By shocking with Enhanced Shock, you are adding chlorine which is why the system is working.


Actually for a while I used a non-chlorine shock and had the same good results I am having now.   The reason I switched was on advice from my dealer.  They mentioned that the enhanced shock included the flocculent and the ph buffers (which the non-chlorine shock did not).

Now, with the enhanced shock, I shock on Sunday afternoon, after I get home from church usually, and by Monday the chlorine level doesn't even register and (of course) is that way for the rest of the week until I shock again.  So I don't really think you can pin the success of my regimin on the 58% dichlor that is in the 2 &1/2 Tbsp of shock I put in every 7 days.  Come on folks, let's give the ozonator a little credit here. ;)

-Sarge
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: J._McD on January 12, 2006, 09:25:45 pm
Quote

Come on folks, let's give the ozonator a little credit here. ;)

-Sarge

Thanks Sarge, it does do something. ;)
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Vinny on January 12, 2006, 09:32:27 pm
Here's another of my $0.02 observations.

Unlike most people with 24 hour circ pumps, I can regulate my ozone for as long as I want. I choose 8 hours a day based on talking to my dealer. I believe as WSD it's not the miricle pill. Most people will say that in order for ozone to be effective it must run 24 hours.

With 8 hours a day, I have it going on for 4 hours at a time @ 12:30. This "covers" me after I go in at night and again mid day providing sanitation and oxidation.

I use chlorine, 1 teaspoon (1.5 PPM) per person after I get out and I will put in 1 teaspoon every other day or day and a half if I don't use the tub before then. I don't use N2 - My opinion is it's a waste, other say it's great.

I adjust PH whenever it's needed. My water comes out of the tap with PH of 6.8, very low calcium and I don't bother about the TA.

Now I factor in the fact that I have a foam spa blanket on the water.  I would think the ozone doesn't have a chance to off gas and 90 - 100% (?) of the ozone is "working". At the end of the week, my combined chlorine ranges from around 0.2 PPM to a little over 0.5 PPM - so I know my tub is safe and the chlorine is killing something. If the chlorine is 0.5 and under I hit the tub with 6PPM chlorine to shock. If it's above 0.5, I use MPS.

My observation is that my 8 hours of ozone and foam spa blanket is equivilent to someone elses 24 hour circ and no spa blanket. I NEVER smell ozone so that tells me that it's being absorbed and used up.

I can't see using much less chemicals than that. And BTW my ozonator is a UV type.  Imagine when I replace it with a CD unit in a few years! :o
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: tony on January 13, 2006, 08:24:16 am
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Actually for a while I used a non-chlorine shock and had the same good results I am having now.   The reason I switched was on advice from my dealer.  They mentioned that the enhanced shock included the flocculent and the ph buffers (which the non-chlorine shock did not).
Now, with the enhanced shock, I shock on Sunday afternoon, after I get home from church usually, and by Monday the chlorine level doesn't even register and (of course) is that way for the rest of the week until I shock again.  So I don't really think you can pin the success of my regimin on the 58% dichlor that is in the 2 &1/2 Tbsp of shock I put in every 7 days.  Come on folks, let's give the ozonator a little credit here. ;)

-Sarge


There is no way in the world that I believe that an ozonator, a silver cartridge and MPS is going to supply enough sanitation to keep a moderately or even lightly used spa safe.  It may keep it clean, but not safe...at least not safe enough for my tastes.  I am not saying that an ozonator does nothing....I personally have one in my spa...but the combination of your Enhanced Shock at 2.5 tbls per week, silver cartridge and ozone is a very adequate system.  Yes your chlorine levels have dropped to zero quickly which says it has done its job killing bacteria (and other nasty bugs) and allows the other two components to stay ahead of things for the rest of the week.

I somewhat follow Vermonters routine, but it is his posts that have me convinced that it is the right way to go.  Being a microbiologist and his business is bacteria and water, he has (or had in the early days for us long time posters) used his HS Grandee as a bit of a test spa for his and our benefit trying certain routines and testing for santitation.  For his own spa he uses Nature2, ozone and chlorine.  The surprising (or not so surprising) results were that Nature2, Eco One, etc without the added benefit of chlorine may yield clean water, but not sanitized water with counts being exceptionally high.  If you have a lot of time on your hands, it may be worth checking it out.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: drewstar on January 13, 2006, 09:00:56 am
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Here's another of my $0.02 observations.

Unlike most people with 24 hour circ pumps, I can regulate my ozone for as long as I want. I choose 8 hours a day based on talking to my dealer. I believe as WSD it's not the miricle pill. Most people will say that in order for ozone to be effective it must run 24 hours.

With 8 hours a day, I have it going on for 4 hours at a time @ 12:30. This "covers" me after I go in at night and again mid day providing sanitation and oxidation.

I use chlorine, 1 teaspoon (1.5 PPM) per person after I get out and I will put in 1 teaspoon every other day or day and a half if I don't use the tub before then. I don't use N2 - My opinion is it's a waste, other say it's great.

I adjust PH whenever it's needed. My water comes out of the tap with PH of 6.8, very low calcium and I don't bother about the TA.

Now I factor in the fact that I have a foam spa blanket on the water.  I would think the ozone doesn't have a chance to off gas and 90 - 100% (?) of the ozone is "working". At the end of the week, my combined chlorine ranges from around 0.2 PPM to a little over 0.5 PPM - so I know my tub is safe and the chlorine is killing something. If the chlorine is 0.5 and under I hit the tub with 6PPM chlorine to shock. If it's above 0.5, I use MPS.

My observation is that my 8 hours of ozone and foam spa blanket is equivilent to someone elses 24 hour circ and no spa blanket. I NEVER smell ozone so that tells me that it's being absorbed and used up.

I can't see using much less chemicals than that. And BTW my ozonator is a UV type.  Imagine when I replace it with a CD unit in a few years! :o



Vinny,

It's my understanding that 03 reverts to 02 very rapidly. This is why many manufactuers have a long contact chamber to allow for maximum mixing of ozone and water.  I've heard that by the time the water travels through these mixing chambers virtually no 03 is present when the water enters the tub.

If this is true,  how would a blanket reduce off gassing of 03?(There's no 03 left to evaporate off)?  Or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: windsurfdog on January 13, 2006, 01:07:31 pm
There must be some residual O3 that makes it into the tub in some quantity, maybe dependent upon the ozonator system type, age, design, etc.  Otherwise, the ozone smell wouldn't be detectible when opening the cover I would think.  Maybe the better designed ozonator systems would have less or even no ozone residual but I'm betting this isn't the case for the majority.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: HotTubMan on January 13, 2006, 02:14:06 pm
My understanding is that ozone will exist for around 30 seconds in water before it reverts to oxygen. It will last 10 times longer in the air before reverting to oxygen.

In theory, a well built ozone system will suspend the ozone in the plumbing that long. That should result in no ozone odour.

In Vinny's example, he says that there is no off-gassing in his tub because he cant smell the ozone. I would suggest that his point would only be valid if he was to check for the smell immediately after an ozone cycle. If he were to check an hour later, he definitely would not smell ozone, because it has all turned to oxygen.

I believe what Vinny is attempting to accomplish with blanket, is limit damage that may be done be undissolved ozone. If the bubbles containing ozone rise to the surface and run into the solar blanket, this will cause that ozone to oxidize the blanket and slow the gas down from reaching covers and pillows as it now must move laterally as opposed to vertically, its natural path.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Vinny on January 13, 2006, 02:58:43 pm
drewstar,

From my understanding - all ozone systems are different. Artesian offers an upgraded ozone system that uses a contact chamber, my tub has about 10 ft of tubing before it enters the tub. D1 uses (at least when I looked at them) tubing that goes around the parimeter of the tub. When I was looking at Emerald Spa, I think they injected ozone at the point where water would go into the tub. Also, there's tubs with 24 hour circ pumps and some tubs without.

From what I've read, the ozone smell can be smelled when most ozone systems are running. Not all of the ozone produced is absorbed into the water which is why you have the smell.

As HotTubMan said, my spa blanket is serving that purpose, if I get 3 years out of it and it saves my more expensive cover, it's worth it; I also think it's helping retain the heat somewhat. I have opened my cover when the ozonator is running for a while and I don't ever smell ozone.
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: drewstar on January 13, 2006, 03:25:10 pm
I understand what you are saying Vinny, and I hope that my questions don't come off as "challlenging" what you are doing, but  honestly asking. I'm trying to figure it all it all out as well.

I am considering a blanket as well and haven't really been conviced of it's abilities.  Keep us updated on your observations.  :D
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: Vinny on January 13, 2006, 03:43:37 pm
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I understand what you are saying Vinny, and I hope that my questions don't come off as "challlenging" what you are doing, but  honestly asking. I'm trying to figure it all it all out as well.

I am considering a blanket as well and haven't really been conviced of it's abilities.  Keep us updated on your observations.  :D


Challanges and questions are good! Whenever one stops thinking and improving, one stagnates!

Stuart has said in the past that we (consumers) see one tub and he (dealers) see thousands. Just because something works for 1 person doesn't mean that it'll work for all.


OK, my head hurts now from spouting out these pearls of wisdom. ;D

Honestly, I come here to learn as much as I can. My views on ozone have softened a bit - I'm not conviced that it works the way people think it works but I do use it to help my chlorine habit.

My opinion is just that.  I don't see the need for N2 because it didn't work for me even though I was using 6 times the amount of chlorine they recommend (I think they recommend 0.5 PPM). But this is my view on N2.

Keep asking away!!
Title: Re: Ozone Works for Me !!!
Post by: stuart on January 17, 2006, 10:29:39 pm
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Challanges and questions are good! Whenever one stops thinking and improving, one stagnates!

Stuart has said in the past that we (consumers) see one tub and he (dealers) see thousands. Just because something works for 1 person doesn't mean that it'll work for all.


You were listening all that time??!!

snif.....i'm so proud....
:'(