Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: fatman on January 04, 2006, 02:12:23 pm
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A recent conversation with an independent hot tub repair tech led to the subject of Hot Spring tubs. He told me that HS is having problems with their new ( I assume he meant 2005 and 2006) plastic cabinets shattering. Anyone having any problems with their cabinets?
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I have a 2005 Grandee bought in October. I am having some issues with warping of these panels. Basically, two of the panels have pulled away at the bottm edge and are warping outward. The dealer is coming out friday to look at this and to install a belated xmas gift ozonator. So we will see what he says. I think he may just screw them down tight.
Any dealers out there who have done this? SHould new panels be ordered instead or is this an acceotable remedy.
I have not had the panels break or crack.
PH
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A recent conversation with an independent hot tub repair tech led to the subject of Hot Spring tubs. He told me that HS is having problems with their new ( I assume he meant 2005 and 2006) plastic cabinets shattering. Anyone having any problems with their cabinets?
Absolutely not. We've sold approximately 800 spas the last two years and haven't had one crack yet. Now, we do coat our spas with a special Kentucky Jelly to keep the cabinets supple, pliable, lubricated, yet rigid. I don't know if any other dealers are doing this, but it has worked great for us.
Every once in awhile, an Everwood panel will come off, but it gets slapped back on with a coat of Kentucky Jelly and a dab of goose grease and no more ding dang problems!
Terminator
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Early on I was having siding come loose in the corners - and one or two spas had cracked siding pcs in the same area. We finally tracked it to the way my warehouse people were picking up the spa with the forklift. They (we) would put the fork tip under the siding in one of the corners to lift the spa off the ground and slide a block under it.
That was putting all the pressure on the siding, even though the spa was wrapped. What's worse was that we didn't see damage until we delivered, and then had to do a repair.
Good news: We have changed the way we pick the tubs up, and no problem since.
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First, I am not having any trouble with mine. Second, I am intimately familiar with how the type of composite that is used to make these cabinets is manufacturerd. Without getting too technical, these panels are made from a mixture of very fine wood flour (i.e. ground up saw dust) and plastic resin that are put into an extruder. Under high heat and high pressure this mixture is formed into the panels that you see. This composite material is very stable and should not be susceptible to moisture or sunlight degradation of any kind.
Also, for Term, save your money, no topical ointment is going to make any difference whatsoever. This stuff is more like solid plastic than it is like wood in terms of porosity. I am assuming of course that the material is made properly in the first place.
To give you some idea of how durable these composites are, the US Navy commissioned a series of experiments to test their durability for docks and found that they last at least 10 times longer than the next most durable option, treated lumber.
Regards,
Bill
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To give you some idea of how durable these composites are, the US Navy commissioned a series of experiments to test their durability for docks and found that they last at least 10 times longer than the next most durable opion, treated lumber.
I know people like the look of wood when its new (and yes you can try to take good care of it) but this is why I think composte siding on spas is the way to go. I've seen far too many older spas and the siding typically looks poor (and I don't mean 15 yrs old but often after just a couple yrs).
BTW, you're right on about use of topical ointments being a waste of time/$/energy on these synthetics but I think Term was pullling someone's leg about the "Kentucky Jelly" comment.
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Are the new 06' HS cabinets different than the 05' models? Did they change the pattern and material composition to look more like "Real" wood?
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Are the new 06' HS cabinets different than the 05' models? Did they change the pattern and material composition to look more like "Real" wood?
Yes, they sure did! They added cosmetic streaking to the pattern and it looks very, very nice. Plus, it is solid as a rock.
If anyone is shopping for a spa, be sure and bang on the side of the cabinet to get a feel for the quality of the materials. You might be surprised at what you find out by simply doing this.
Terminator
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Term,
While working a home show( back when I was sellin' HS) I would kick the side of a tub to show the strength of the cabinet and challenge the customer to do the same with the competitors. Needless to say by the end of the day I was confronted by an angry competitor who wanted me to pay for their cabinet with a big hole in it! LOL
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;D ;D ;D
I should have added a disclaimer "Only kick a spa that you are prepared to own."
Terminator
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That reminds me of when we were pregnant with our first child. We went to Babies R Us to look at cribs. I went and hid in the car after J broke his fifth crib trying to get the side rail up and down.
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Fatman,
Did HS come out Friday to look at your cabinet? How did they propose fixing it and are you satisfied?
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imbarbra6, I don't believe fatman owns any spa yet. He's been dilligently shopping for one since I've been on here, a little over a year now.
There is no problem with the cabinets.
Terminator
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Oy! sorry Fatman. The previous questions were intended for pruned_hands. Guess I need to have a cup of joe and clear out the cob webs from inside my head before getting online and asking questions.
:)
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Don't worry Imbarbra6...it is monday morning and we all move a little slower.
Yes, my dealer (who is very good) came out and looked at the warpage issue. He had intended to screw down the panels with #6 screws he was told to bring by HS. After looking at my panels, it was clear that on all three sides made with solid panels (i.e. not the front, entry side), all of the panels were warped on the bottom corners. We both agreed that (1) the odds of there being six badly manufactured panels was slim, and that (2) we wondered if the framing of the tub cabinet on the outside bottom was just a bit big/. This would cause the panels to have to be forced into place where they would not stay and voila'...warping occured. Now it would be difficult to get them to stay in place even if we screwed them down.
The dealer felt that we shouldn't have to put a dozen screws along the bottom of a new tub and he called HS from my house, talked to them directly and arranged to have all new panels sent.
We are going to install them and see if they will work (we both are betting it won't be a complete fix) and if that doesn't work...
I will push for a new tub and my dealer would probably support me as he was amazed by the extent that my panels warped. Hopefully his reaction wasn't for show...
So I am happy that we are being "sensibly aggressive" in addressing this manner. We'll try the new panels and see what happens.
Anyone have any feedback or other ideas?
I will keep you folks posted.
PH
p.s....love the new ozonator, not sure if I've noticed a difference, but from what I have read here, I am looking to the extra cleaning help.
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I just hit the 3 year mark with my 02 HS Landmark and I did have some of the panels coming loose. Most of mine came loose on the side where the cover lifter holds the cover. I figured this side takes more 'abuse' since it is where any water on the cover or condensation the underside of the cover runs down the side of the spa. My dealer has been awesome for the 3 years I have had my spa and they came and reglued all the panels in place and found a few more that looked like they were coming loose and reglued those as well. I am very satisfied with the quality of my tub and the service I receive if I have an issue. Viva la HotSpring!!!
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Now, now, now....put down the cup of Kool-aid before the usual suspects chime in and say you are brainwashed by good service after the sale.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Every spa is a machine and every machine eventually has a failure. The big difference is how the company responds to and fixes your problem. That's where satisfied customers are created.
Terminator
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Now, now, now....put down the cup of Kool-aid before the usual suspects chime in and say you are brainwashed by good service after the sale.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Every spa is a machine and every machine eventually has a failure. The big difference is how the company responds to and fixes your problem. That's where satisfied customers are created.
Terminator
GOOD SERVICE comes from the dealer who supports the manufacturer. I am pleased to know that it is prevelant in this industry and is not only the trademark of only a few manufacturers. Good Service is what we all espouse to do. It is the support system of any and all spa manufacturer to care for the needs of all customers who buy all brands and does not require the koolaid, only a sincere interest to deliver customer C.A.R.E. ;) Customers Are Really Everything ;D
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GOOD SERVICE comes from the dealer who supports the manufacturer. I am pleased to know that it is prevelant in this industry and is not only the trademark of only a few manufacturers. Good Service is what we all espouse to do. It is the support system of any and all spa manufacturer to care for the needs of all customers who buy all brands and does not require the koolaid, only a sincere interest to deliver customer C.A.R.E. ;) Customers Are Really Everything ;D
Not to be too agrumentative but actually in the grand scheme of things it comes from BOTH. Some manufacturers pretty much demand it of their dealers and are willing to pay for it to the letter of the warranty and sometimes above and beyond it if their feel they "owe" the customer to make it right while some manufacturers seem to at times want to avoid backing their product or at least seem to look for the loopholes thereby making it more difficult for the dealer to follow through. Together Everyone Achieves More (TEAM).
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Not to be too agrumentative but actually in the grand scheme of things it comes from BOTH. Some manufacturers pretty much demand it of their dealers and are willing to pay for it to the letter of the warranty and sometimes above and beyond it if their feel they "owe" the customer to make it right while some manufacturers seem to at times want to avoid backing their product or at least seem to look for the loopholes thereby making it more difficult for the dealer to follow through. Together Everyone Achieves More (TEAM).
Not argumentative at all, but the warm and fuzzy felling that Perk1 is referring to is soely based on the attentive caring attitude that comes from the dealer. The manufacturer, most all of them, provide parts and materials, but it is the dealer and his staff that are responsible for the impressionable feeling that the consumer relates too. Often times, the dealer will go above and beyond in what the manufacturer provides in the interest of their common customer.
……..My dealer has been awesome for the 3 years I have had my spa and they came and reglued all the panels in place and found a few more that looked like they were coming loose and reglued those as well. I am very satisfied with the quality of my tub and the service I receive………
The manufacturer did not make Perk1 feel this way, the dealer did.
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The manufacturer did not make Perk1 feel this way, the dealer did.
I was speaking in general, not relative to Perk, but you're right in what you're saying.
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All I am saying is buy a darn HotSpring and stop worrying about it.... ;D....jk....dealer support is a must but as mentioned above the dealer needs to be backed by a manufacturer who will support the warranty.
East Tx, it didnt take much brain washing once I saw the layout of the Landmark. For me it was the most unique seating arrangement and it offers a lot of seating choices. I also felt it was one of the only '6 person' spas that coud actually hold 6 people. And from the 'its a small world' category, the guy who sits right next to me at work(here in NJ) went to college/flight school in the same county you are in. I was showing him pics of Tammy awhile back at the Gregg County fair and he was like 'I went to school in Gregg County', but I dont think he ever bought a spa off of you!!!
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Perk1...
Are you saying your panels are glued into place? I thought there were "clips" which held them in place??
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Perk1...
Are you saying your panels are glued into place? I thought there were "clips" which held them in place??
Originally they were glued only. A couple of years ago, we started supplementing it with tiny finishing nails that are virtually invisible.
I understand your concern about the appearance of your spa's cabinet over the time of ownership. I'll put the HS cabinet up against anything on the market for pure appearance as well as durability. During your shopping, be sure to bang on the side of the spas you are researching. That will tell you A LOT about the quality of the spa.
Good luck! :)
Terminator
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Thank you Terminator..
The end of the month we are going to a Home Show at Cal Expo in Sacramento. I'm anticipating seeing some spas.. besided the pepper test I read somewhere on here to check the filtration system and kicking the sides of the cabinets are there any other things we can do to check for quality?
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Thank you Terminator..
The end of the month we are going to a Home Show at Cal Expo in Sacramento. I'm anticipating seeing some spas.. besided the pepper test I read somewhere on here to check the filtration system and kicking the sides of the cabinets are there any other things we can do to check for quality?
Yes, if there are empty spas in the booths, ask if the salesperson will jump up and down inside of one. See what they say. If they do it, I'll be amazed.
Ask to see an owner's manual and then look at how many pages are designated towards "programming" the spa. I've seen some with over 20 pages just to tell you how to set filtration cycles, set the temp, interpreting error messages, and whatnot. This is what people get tired of when they say they are tired of their spa. No one gets tired of sitting in hot, bubbly water.
I'll think of some other things in a bit.
Above all, have fun shopping. You have all the power and it's pretty entertaining watching salespeople promise you the world. Be discerning.
Enjoy yourself and good luck! ;D
Terminator
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are there any other things we can do to check for quality?
With some spas you can see poor quality when they're sitting there dry in the showroom but otherwise most brands look nice sitting there dry. Spa quality is measured by how they perform in customers yards. Even then each customer has a sample of 1 so some spas that have great reputations will still have some spa owners who had one and it did not perform well and they'll tell you that spa brand is not so great. However, as they make thousands the masses give opinions and we see a trend. That's why these sites are great; you can read reviews and posts and see what many others are seeing out there. I'm sure that show will look good and so will the spas but it'll take more than a few good looking dry Cal spas for me to start thinking they are a top choice.