Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: teach on December 22, 2005, 06:58:49 am
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Well, the tub was delivered Dec. 6th. a 1000lb monster. Three of us got the tub to its location without too much problem, with the exception, a broken trim strip, which was replaced. The installers also mounted the cover lifter abit un square, but are comming back to correct that. We filled the tub and I was tubbing that night. We have been using the tub nightly for about three weeks. Its really cold here, but seems like the colder the outside temp., the more enjoyable the soak. It has great jet location and plenty of power. It has a variable throttle turn will turn the jets up and almost blow you out of your seat. I was really apprehensive about buying a Thermospa after reading all of the negative post here, but I must say, that we are really enjoying the tub. It seems really constructed well and is very solid. It ashame that there price is higher than others because I'm sure that prevents others from considering the Thermospa. The water chemistry is alittle intimdating to me, but I probably will get the hang off it after abit. One thing I wasn't prepared for was the cost of chemicals. When one buys a hot tub you must be aware that not only will your electric cost increase, but also be prepared to spend money on chemicals. Overall, I am please with the Concord Deluxe Thermospa and will keep this forum posted on any new developments.
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Don't buy your chemicals from thermospa. Find a local dealer or use the Net. It will save you many $$$$$
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I highly recommend the Doc for information and merchandise.
www.rhtubs.com
Good luck with your tub.
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Teach,
Congrats on the tub! I hope it works out well for you and your familly.
:)
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Just goes to show you that whatever people say - it's just their opinion!
Enjoy your new tub!
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Good advice from Rick. Most Pool & Spa dealers offer free water testing and can get you into a routine that works for you.
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Thanks for sharing Teach. I think alot of the bad press goes back to the fact that an unhappy customer will tell 10 people about their bad experience were as a happy customer may tell 2 about his good experience. I am sure Thermospa sells a lot of spas to happy owners but unfortunately we only get to see the negatives on this board. I also agree with you about their price...you would think it would be lower than a local spa dealer if they are truly cutting out the middle man.
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I think if you go back you'll find the bad press was more about their selling techniques, price and after delivery service.
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Right on Drew.
They had a great tub and I would have bought one (after a wet test) if they hadn't priced themselves out of the market and the salesman had a smaller mouth and bigger ears.
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Right on Drew.
They had a great tub and I would have bought one (after a wet test) if they hadn't priced themselves out of the market and the salesman had a smaller mouth and bigger ears.
I really don't think that their off in price by that much - a loaded Piper Glen is about $11,000 and I would think that all the higher end tubs (D1 Bay series or Sundance Maxus) approach that figure. If I remember correctly, teach paid about $12,000 which is close enough in price to any higher end tub.
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Vinny,
You are corrrect in the comparison of price. But, being in the field, working on new and old Thermo Spas weekly, I can say there is a huge difference. Thermo is not a D-One, Artesian, Hot springs, Sundance or Marquis. It is a average quality spa marked up incredibly, to pay for the huge cost of the infomercials and extremely high salesman commissions. Their commission sales people are merely paid a par commision, a flat fee if the spa is sold at the lowest price drop. But, if the spa is sold for $3,000 over par, then the salesman splits the overage with Thermo Spas. They get par plus a $1500 overage split. So, depending on how hard you press, the price of the spa could drop as much as $4,000 during the sales pitch. $12,000 could drop to $8,000. They last price drop usually involves the salesman calling the manager, on the phone who is then told, unbelievably, that a customer just canceled a sale today, for the same exact model and color. And if they act now and buy that spa tonight, we could save you $2500. If people survive the must buy it tonight sales approach and make it into showrooms after the high pressure presentation, then they see what their money can really get them. Three years ago, a gentleman from my church, found out too late, that I was in the spa business. After stepping into my showroom and seeing what he could have for a reasonable amount of money, he confessed he had purchased a T-Spa just 2 months earlier. He pushed to the last price drop and for $6900. purchased a one pump 82" spa, with just 20 jets. The spa did "not" come with a lifter, ozonator or LED Light. He said he could not afford the extra options, as they wanted $500 more for the ozonator alone. I did install a ozonator, cover lifter and LED Light for him. His stripped down $6900 1 pump spa, offered less than our more powerful 82" 29 Jet Island Antiqua, with 1 pump,which sells in the $5,000s. Yet we include the ozonator, lifter and LED Light. The fellow was even told that if he purchased chemicals from anyone but Thermo Spas, it would void his warranty.The good news is, any spa purchased in the home, does fall under the 3 day right to rescind/cancel. Which gives a consumer 3 business days after a "in-home" purchase, to cancel a contract.
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"....The fellow was even told that if he purchased chemicals from anyone but Thermo Spas, it would void his warranty.
:o
Forcing them to buy chemcials from them is really sticking it to them.
I have a feeling this would not hold up in court, (automotive industry lost that battle) but then again, who wants that hassel?
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The Thermospa we liked was the Park Avenue but at $14,000 it was way over priced, considering that the cover, installation & start up chemicals were extra. :o
>:( They tried to bait and switch me the next day by offering a Concord with cover for $13,000 because it was "cancelled and would only be available to me for a short time because you and your wife are good people". BS
If you come in contact with anyone from Thermospa, put your fingers in your ears and run like hell to a real dealer.
We bought a Jacuzzi J-385 for $8,000 (no payments, no interest for 12 months) including a cover, installation, start up chemicals and booster seat for my wife and we are very satisfied with the spa AND the dealer. ;)
You don't always get what you pay for. That is why you need to shop and compare and also why the dealer is as important as the spa.
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Vinny,
You are corrrect in the comparison of price. But, being in the field, working on new and old Thermo Spas weekly, I can say there is a huge difference. Thermo is not a D-One, Artesian, Hot springs, Sundance or Marquis. It is a average quality spa marked up incredibly...
Dave,
Since you sell the best spa made and I bought the best spa value there is ... how can anything compare! ;)
All joking aside, I know what your saying but only a professional can tell the difference between an OK spa and a great spa; as a consumer, I can't. I went to a lot of dealers to see what's out there and they all sold the best. The D1 dealer that I went to didn't even show me his at home series, all he talked about was the higher end D1's.
In the original post by teach, I believe he stated that he got everything included (I could be wrong) and he liked the Thermo spas that his friends have (wet test). If he walked into the stores I did and asked to see a $12,000 spa - he would have seen the highest end spas that are sold.
How does a consumer tell if a spa is mediocre quality verses high quality? Even here you pros don't agree.
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Hi Vinny,
What is the best spa? There is no single best spa. There are about 10 companies, that I would put in the "Best Spa" category. For the consumer, it is about finding the best spa for their family. The best in meeting their needs, like budget, performance, quality, features, size, depth, comfort level, level of during and after sale service, therapeutic needs, etc. I have never touted my brand as best on this forum, but as a great choice and I recommend wet testing, to see if it is best for you. I am very proud of the brand I sell, as most folks on this forum are. If I came off a little strong against T-Spa, then I appologize. Afterall, Teach was trying to give us a update on his T-Spa experience and we all appreciate his input. As most have negative things to say about the brand, it was good to hear a positive experience from a recent buyer of that brand. I have been servicing spas since 1985 and yes I have only been retailing spas from my own store since 2001, so I always consider my self, a spa tech first before salesman. Being from New Jersey, I have worked on 100's of T-Spas and have never put them down on quality. I stated, in my opinion, thay were of average quality, not up there with brands that I mentioned and I stand by that. My big beef, was not with the quality, but with their selling tactics. The In-Home Must Buy Tonight High Pressure Sales Tactics and prices that are "not" based on a set scale, but based upon how much money the salesman desires to make on that person, really bothers me. Some folks don't shop and don't know that T-Spas has a few price drops built in. If they bought at the opening price from the Salesman, thay may have paid about $3-4000, more than the par price. I think that is wrong, to take advantage of nice people that way. Our prices are set and stay the same all year, until the manufacturers raise its prices, usually the 1st of the year. If your brother comes in for a price, he gets the same price, I quoted you 2 months ago, everyone gets the same price. All of our spas come standard with features people want, like cover, Hydraulic lifter, steps, chemicals, LED Light,Resin Cabinets, Delivery, Setup and Indoctrination. There is nothing to haggle about, it is all there. Whether my method is right or the best way, it works for me and I think people appreciate that they are getting everything they need, at the best price. And get what they deserve, great service. Everyone has different therapy needs and reasons for a purchasing a spa, so as always wet test and shop locally to find the
"Best Spa" for your family. Dave.
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Is it even legal to sell a spa without a cover. I am pretty sure in Arizona you must have a cover with a spa. Just like a fence and a pool.
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Dave,
Please don't take my post wrong. My statement was about us consumers not knowing about quality.
I originally was interested in Thermo, they got me started in wanting a tub. When teach first came here - he was slammed by most people. But he did what everyone said to do - wet test - and liked it.
Thermo is probably only known by their infomercials and some people buy it based on what Thermo says. HS is doing infomercials now ... my opinion is they saw how successful Thermo is at it and want a piece of that pie.
$12,000 is a lot of money for ANY tub. But as a shopper I saw what some manufacturer's offer at their price points - some are just too much also.
Basically the point I was trying to make was if you put all $12,000 (or $6,000, $7000, ...) spas side by side and all things about the spas being equal, how do I, the non spa professional, know what's a great spa or a crap one. I don't think I would be able to tell the difference.
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I have to agree with the majority. We live in Wallingford CT near a TS warehouse and before deciding went to the showroom/warehouse sale. We were treated like they were going to do us the biggest favor in the world. Everything was a big deal color delivery model etc wouldn't talk about service or support. We walked out on them and left them talking to themselves. Wouldn't recommend anyone to go there. We went to our local HS dealer and bought a Solans TX and it's great.
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Me not being a proffesional spa tech, or not even a crappy spa tech, how does the average person tell if a spa is of execellant, mediam, or poor quality. I'm not talkin about how deep seats are or the jets in different places, or number of jets, or even marketing are selling practices? All of that is personal and has nothing to do about qualityof the spa. Also dealer service, as important as it is, has nothing to do with the quality of the spa . I here alot a people in the spa business here talk about this or that spa that is of medium quality and then talking about the spa they sell is of exallent quality That is fine to me because I think you should believe in the product you are selling. I personally would like to know why this spa or that spa is of poor fair good or excelent quality in their opinion. I haven't really checked, but maybe it has to do with the form rules, I don't know. It would help me though, if members are permitted, to explain why they have the opinion that they have regarding any spa.
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Vinny,
Now, I understand and I agree with you. I quess alot of the techs, dealers and reps on this forum take it for granite and know what brands are the best and why they are the best. But, as a consumer, it must be difficult going out there and shopping for a quality spa.
I agree with you, on the first appearance, probably most spas look similar. Many folks get swayed by total jets and how many pumps the spa has, when there is a lot more to it. Vinny, you shopped all over New Jersey and learned alot about spas and have been a great help on this forum sharing your experiences, with shoppers and spa owners. This forum and others like it are a good thing. There are almost no Magazines or Websites out there, that offer true Spa and Hot Tub Ratings, that are not paid for. Most people will do the circuit and shop all of the spas at local dealerships, ask their friends and research products on the net. Twenty years ago, working in a dealership, I think we had maybe 1 or 2 people a year wet testing spas in the showroom. Now, we have about atleast 5 wet tests a week. Big difference. Back then every spa had 4 jets, a 1 HP Pump and 1 HP Air Blower and were availbale in three colors, brown marble, sky blue marble and sequoia red. You could do a tent sale and people showed up and bought a spa, on their first visit. Now, with so many choices, features and options available, people want to test drive before they buy, to be sure which spa is right for them, as they should. Infomercials by TSpa and now HS, is a good thing. It gets the wheels turning and introduces the public to the benefits of hot water therapy and what it can do for them. And thats a good thing too. It is still a youg industry, about 30 years. Hopefully, manufacturers can start working together, instead of against each other, with dealers to provide a better shopping experience for spa buyers. I think there could be Manufacturer/Dealer Spa shows, that have all of the big players in the same show, open to the public and not a show paid for by one manufacturer, featuring just one brand. I always felt, that our National and Regional Trade Shows, that usually run Tues-Thursdays, could be open Fridays and Saturdays, for the public. No pricing or selling would have to take place. Just introduce the public to what is out there. We'll keep plugging. Dave.
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Me not being a proffesional spa tech, or not even a crappy spa tech, how does the average person tell if a spa is of execellant, mediam, or poor quality.
That has always been my point. People will go in a showroom, kick the tires, ask a few questions and from the sales presentation mostly they have to determine if it is a Quality spa. That's why places like this are helpful.
Also, What's with that "crappy" adjective?
Also dealer service, as important as it is, has nothing to do with the quality of the spa .
I disagree! One of the reasons the better quality spas often give better quality service is because the dealers of the beter spas aren't inundated with nearly as many service calls on pain in the ass quality issues that should be taken care of at the factory or just plain poor design. That frees them up to deal with the random quality issues that occur (there will always be some issues). Dealers can get frustrated and in turn drop the ball a bit.
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This is exactly what I mean. You guys are still beaten around the bush. Spatech, quoted me a couple times for what? It surly didn't answer any questions I and other members have. Everybody talks about wet testing and how important it is. I agree it is one major consideration to buying a spa. But that doesn't effect the quallity of the tub. Just cause a spa hits you in all the right places or fells good to you doesn't change the spas quality. To me quality means dependability. I don't care if the spa does hit you in all the right places, IF IN DOESN'T WORK HALF THE TIME. OR MOST OF THE TIME IT'S JUNK. MY QUESTION STILL STANDS UNANSWERED WHAT MAKES A SPA EXCELLENT, FAIR OR POOR in the eyes of the professionals here? As far a the crappy adjective not all spa tech's are created equal, as some in the business are idiots. I am one of the idiots because I know nothing about spas
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This is exactly what I mean. You guys are still beaten around the bush. Spatech, quoted me a couple times for what? It surly didn't answer any questions I and other members have.
MY QUESTION STILL STANDS UNANSWERED WHAT MAKES A SPA EXCELLENT, FAIR OR POOR in the eyes of the professionals here? As far a the crappy adjective not all spa tech's are created equal, as some in the business are idiots. I am one of the idiots because I know nothing about spas
A quality spa is one which is well designed and therefore lasts in the field for years with few issues (and they are simple understandable issues when they do arise). That along with the features it has is what makes people happy or unhappy down the line. Not all customers are bright enough to understand that on their own so if you can't get it we can't help you.
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A quality spa is one which is well designed and therefore lasts in the field for years with few issues (and they are simple understandable issues when they do arise).
So by your definition of a quality spa, I won't know if I bought a quality spa until I've owned it for ten to fifteen years. That really helps me out now when I'm looking for a spa. What is a simple understandable issue? I've never owned a spa or tried to trouble shoot one, but I really can't imagine with a spa consisting of water pumps, control unit, ozanator, lights and plastic pipe can't hardly see anything not being understandable. Just a process of elimination and money to buy new parts unless the shell completely falls apart. I may be an idiot when it comes to spas just because I've never been around one, but this in no way means I'm an idiot as you have implied. NJDAVE said Thermo is not a D-One, Artesian, Hot springs, Sundance or Marquis. It is an average quality spa. I guess what I would like, being new to the spa industry is when someone like NJDAVE, you or any other knowledgable person here makes a statement like this, it would help us newbie's for the pros to explain why they think this way. I sat through a TS home sales pitch and got offered the same deal as many others have. Did I by one no, and I am no way endorsing TS or cutting them down.
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Whatever Blizzard. Go buy a T-spa or go to Home Depot and get one of their basic types. Just take your attitude elsewhere.