Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: spa_seeker on December 17, 2005, 08:29:43 am
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Well...it's time for some hot water at my house.
I've visited several retailers, read web pages and poked around these types of forums. As most of you can appreciate, I'm trying to make a good decision about how to best spend about $6k, and I'm looking for help in doing so.
I've narrowed my search to Marquis or one of three Watkins products - Hot Springs, Tiger River or Caldera. It's obvious that Hot Springs is a sponsor of this site; however, does anyone have any (relatively objective) opinions about these four brands? Even if it's only in discussing the differences between the three Watkins brands, that would be useful.
For example, the local Caldera dealer implied that his spas in many cases used newer technology (single acrylic shell, different heater, perhaps more) than the Hot Springs models. And I think I read somewhere that the Tiger River spas are more "value" than their big brothers - similar features for significantly less price.
I do plan to wet-test before buying - this seems to be universally recommended.
Thanks in advance for your ideas.
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Watkins advertises on this site. It does not own this site.
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Out of curiousity, have you narrowed your search to specific models within those Manufacturers?
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Chris - thanks for the clarification re: advertising vs. ownership. Sometimes it's hard to tell and in this case I wasn't sure.
grahamtasia - I'm thinking of either the Envoy (HS), Bengal (TR) or Martinique/Tahitian (Caldera), or the 518 (Marquis Everyday) or Quest/Reward (Marquis).
One thing that concerns me with Watkins is that while they seem to make consistently reliable tubs, I've encountered rants from people who have the occasional "lemon" or "problem child" tub, and these folks seem generally to be very dissatisfied with Watkins' ball-dropping abilities. I haven't seen similar comments about Marquis (though I suspect there are many more Watkins tubs out there, so more opportunities for the occasional problem).
Any ideas out there, especially in regard to:
What about Watkins' service in the event of problems within the warranty period? Any difference (or than the terms of the warranty) between HS/TR/Caldera?
Do you really save money with the Tiger River line vs. HS - and do you sacrifice much in the way of durability/quality?
What about upgrading to the "Ultimate" package with a Marquis Everyday vs. the standard Marquis (Reward or Quest)? As for the Quest, it comes with 115V but can be upgraded to 230V. (Is this something to avoid? I've already got wiring for 220/50amp service.) Speaking of that, if I buy one that doesn't include its own GFCI subpanel, will I need to replace the emergency box that was mounted outside next to my old Sundance - or can I continue to use that?
Thanks for any and all ideas, including others beyond my short list above...
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What about upgrading to the "Ultimate" package with a Marquis Everyday vs. the standard Marquis (Reward or Quest)? As for the Quest, it comes with 115V but can be upgraded to 230V. (Is this something to avoid? I've already got wiring for 220/50amp service.) Speaking of that, if I buy one that doesn't include its own GFCI subpanel, will I need to replace the emergency box that was mounted outside next to my old Sundance - or can I continue to use that?
spa_seaker, the Ultimate pkg on the Marquis brings some features normally reserved for the top line (reward/epic/quest). you will get the powershift therapy system, waterfall, and durawood. last year, no waterfall and durawood was an upgrade that would cost near the Ultimate package. personally i have not had a 115v quest running, but have had other models using the 115v system and it worked fine. just to clarify, are you looking at the Quest AND the Reward?? or just the Quest and the 418?? If the Reward is in that price range, im going to guess a flor model?? if so, the price on the Reward is excellent.
as far as your disconnect that is already at the spa location, i see no reason not to use it again.
socal
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We wet tested a Reward but we went with the Epic. I think the Marquis product is awesome. We have had our Epic a little over 2 months. It is everything we hoped it would be.
We liked the Reward but simply wanted a larger spa. I will say I liked the Reward over Marquis' Everyday line. Not saying there's anything wrong with that line but just doesn't have the bells/whistles. I don't think you can go wrong with the Marquis product...IMO.
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Welcome to the board spa_seeker! I hope you find the answers you're looking for.
I, of course, sell HotSpring and Tiger River. I had a brief 1 year run with Caldera when Watkins first aquired them but it was not very fruitful. We still sell Caldera Spas in a roundabout way through the HotSpot line, which are basically the entry-level Calderas.
Regarding the TR being a better value than HS, that is really up to what is important to you. There used to be a lot of differences between the two brands, now they are very similiar.
I will say that you are looking at 3 very high quality brands. Whichever one provides the most value for you is the right one.
As to the occasional unhappy Watkins customer, if you had any idea how many more spas Watkins sells than anyone else, it would make your head spin. Sure there is going to be a lot more opportunity for something to go wrong when you have so many more spas than anyone else in the field. But, they have always responded to any of the very, very few problems we encounter in a timely fashion. It seems more likely the individual dealers are dropping the ball.
Good luck. :)
Terminator
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I've never heard about the lemon problem that you are describing from Hotspring. If this is a real post I think you are being mislead. I don't have anything to do with the company by the way. You shouldn't have any problems with any of the tubs mentioned. Buy the one that fits you best.
Chris
One thing that concerns me with Watkins is that while they seem to make consistently reliable tubs, I've encountered rants from people who have the occasional "lemon" or "problem child" tub, and these folks seem generally to be very dissatisfied with Watkins' ball-dropping abilities. I haven't seen similar comments about Marquis (though I suspect there are many more Watkins tubs out there, so more opportunities for the occasional problem).
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I'm curious Spa Seaker, where did you hear these ranting customers complaining? I sell Watkins products, & my experience has been the total opposite, Watkins goes above & beyond in customer satisfaction, that is what their reputation is built on.
by the way Cappykat, Very nice picture!
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Thanks to everybody for their posts. I appreciate everyone's input, and it all seems objective and useful.
Guzz, I think some of the "rants" can actually be found on this site under the "Reviews" button at the top toolbar-thing. Still, I think Terminator's right about the sheer # of Watkins products out there. Bound to be a few imperfect ones out there. (I, however, seem to be a magnet for these anomalies - dead pizel in the middle of a HD LCD TV that Sony won't cover, doors that open randomly on a Honda Odyssey...that kind of thing. Hoping for nothing like that in this case!)
Out to test. Thanks again, all.
:)
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Watkins advertises on this site. It does not own this site.
I notice they added - 1800Flowers.com to the rotating banners so from now one we will not mention FTD as they come from a guy called the flowerspecialist who just buys them from somewhere else and modifies them and tries to keep the Good Housekeeping seal.
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I've visited several retailers, read web pages and poked around these types of forums. As most of you can appreciate, I'm trying to make a good decision about how to best spend about $6k, and I'm looking for help in doing so.
SpaSeeker,
You're getting a lot of good advice on this site. The Watkins products and the Marquis products are both very good. They both have premium lines as well as value lines where the quality doesn't diminish but the features are fewer to meet a lesser price point. You really con't go wrong either way so get to know the dealers, wet test the products if possible and take your time deciding.
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Well, if anybody's still following this, I figured I'd give you my decision. I wet-tested a Hot Spring Sovereign, a Caldera Martinique and a Marquis Everyday 530 Ultimate. (I was more interested in the Tiger River Bengal than the Sovereign, but the local HS store didn't have one with water in it.
I liked the regular jets on the HS tub. The motomassager wasn't for me; I know this is a subjective thing, having read it repeatedly. IMO, this seems to be a bit of a retail roulette game - do they "clinch" as many buyers as they lose with this feature? But I did like the pressure from the jets. (I know the TR Bengal doesn't have the motomassage feature...but they didn't have one in the area and it was looking like a month or so to get one.
So on to Caldera, the other Watkins line. I absolutely LOVED the lounge in this tub; your butt sits low and there's no feeling of floating away. (On the other hand, the sculpted calf moldings in the tub pretty much preclude using this as a comfortable seat in a pinch - who wants to sit right on those ridges?) But the big problem for me was the jet pressure. The high-pressure feature the salesman touted worked against them in my subjective opinion. After just a few minutes I got that itchy, annoying feeling where the jets seemed to be hammering me in the same tiny spot, over and over. As much as I loved the lounge, it seemed it wasn't worth enduring discomfort with the other sitting positions just for this.
And so on to Marquis. I didn't like the lounge as well as the Caldera, and I think the 530 Ultimate Package (durawood, waterfall, extra HK40 jets with Therapy Control or whatever they call it) is a bit expensive at $7500 for their second-tier (Everyday vs. Marquis) line. BUT...I absolutely loved the jets in this. The high- volume low-pressure (vs. what I experienced as high volume and high pressure in the Caldera) was really relaxing and seemed by far the most comfortable of the group. Plus there are really two separate loungers - though one is admittedly shallow - which I think will be great for my wife and I, who I anticipate to be the primary users.
Today I made a downpayment on the Marquis Everyday 530 Ultimate with a Covermate III cover lifter and steps for $7200.
Thanks for all the help. We're having the rare snow day here in Portland (OR), and I'm of course wishing I had made these decisions earlier so I could go sit in a vat of hot water right now.
Best to all. :D
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Well done.
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Very good choice, Spa Seeker. We wet tested the 530 also and loved it. Since we knew we would typically be a group of 4 (and the kids are teenagers), we ultimately ended up with the Epic because of the size. My husband actually decided on the Epic, I would have been veryt happy with the 530. Good luck!
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you wont be disappointed.
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congrats on the tub, its not an easy decision. all of the manufacturers on your list build a quality product. its nice to see an indepth view into what you liked/disliked in all the models you tested.
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Congratulations! You went about the process the right way, you found the right spa for you, and you picked a good, solid brand. Enjoy!
Terminator
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Yeah, the Powershift has really increased the performance of that spa. Congrats! :D
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enjoy the your new spa.....and Happy Holidays.....
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I think you can do better,I just had the Epic installed and I just love it,but we paid just a few $100 more than what your paying and we got the Epic with stairs,covermate 3,plus a years supply of chemicals.
And it was not like I had to chisel away at the dealer to get that deal,they started at 8900.00 on the first visit but by the time I made the wet test and looked for the 3rd time they shaved 1000 off the first price and then the last we visit we closed the deal with all the extras and a few hunderd more even taken off.
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I notice they added - 1800Flowers.com to the rotating banners so from now one we will not mention FTD as they come from a guy called the flowerspecialist who just buys them from somewhere else and modifies them and tries to keep the Good Housekeeping seal.
Hehehehe Bill ;D
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I'd have to agree with devildawg...$7200 seems high for the 530. But $7200 seems pretty darn high for the everyday line. Did you look at the Reward or Quest?
We bought our spa in August 05, and you mean to tell me prices have gone up on the Epic by $1000 in 4 months?? I'm in Florida so that may have something to do with price.
You'll love the Marquis product whatever you chose, and you're so right about the pressure of their jets. You don't get that "itchy" feeling. If you're happy with your purchase and price that's all that matters. There is always going to be someone who gets a better price.
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As to your concerns over price, there isn't much competition in my area (Portland, OR) with regard to the Marquis line. I was told the Reward and Destiny start at $9500, and I think (could be wrong) the Epic starts at over $10k...
Upon finalizing the sale a couple of days ago, I was told one of the VP's (or thereabouts, somebody in "senior management") of Marquis was following this thread. If he's still reading, it would be interesting to hear about the pricing of these tubs. (I know freight can't explain me paying more, since these are made about 50 miles south of me!) Yes, it would be more interesting to me personally to see some buckaroos shaved off the price if I did get hosed, so to speak; but I think transparency would be useful to readers of this forum.
In general, I wish the dealers would simply move away from the car dealership approach, put the MSRP on these things and go from there. But that's me; I'm sure there are a few good hagglers out there who would rather go toe-to-toe and see how they can do.
Thanks for your continued interest and ideas. Best to all.
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spa_seeker:
Prices have increased in the last few months. The majority of the spa is a petroleum based product, with rising prices of oil, Marquis has had several price increases within the last year. The 530 Ultimate you purchased was not available to Florida dealers in August at the time kappycat purchased their spa. You received a good deal on the spa.
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SpaSeeker,
I'm also in Portland and have looked at the 530 Ultimate. I have to admit I did like it a lot. One minor detail is that it's not tall enough for my space. I have a two-level deck with the upper level (behind the tub) is 35½" high while the tub is only 34" high.
As for your price of $7,200, it's much better than the $7,465 I was quoted. Plus your price INCLUDES the cover lifter while my quote doesn't.
I'm not done shopping yet.
Jim
P.S. feel free to drop me a line at yahoo.com.
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I'm sure there are a few good hagglers out there who would rather go toe-to-toe and see how they can do.
I love going toe to toe with any vendor. Walk in with cash.....100 dollar bills, a bunch of them. Funny how they seem to talk to dealers of alot of products. Go late on a Friday or Saturday. Or very early right after they open, be the first customer. Stake out the place and wait for a real slow day. Ask them how many tubs they sold today and if they want to sell one now. Take control of the sale, but be nice. This of course assuming they have what you want. After a wet test that went perfect tell them it wasn't exactly right but...then pull out the envelope full of hundo's and say you realy want a tub today, make me an offer I can't refuse. Turn the table on them.....hehehehe My wife hates shopping with me.
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You're right, Tman122, you would have most dealers jumping through hoops to make you a deal. Like one misunderstood poster who is no longer with us once said, "Cash is King!"
Terminator