Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Duffman on September 11, 2005, 11:59:52 am
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Report Link: http://www.members.cox.net/duffman471/Spa_Wet_Testing_Analysis.htm
This is the 2nd thread related to this report. While there is a lot of great feedback from forum members on the "Independent Wet Test" thread, it just got a little long in the tooth.
The reason for the phoenix-like rebirth of this topic is that there have been major updates based on all of the constructive feedback I received over recent months. Also, I just wet tested a couple of new spas. For those of you who provided advice and helped keep me in check, you have my thanks :D
For those of you who are seeing this reference for the first time, here's a little excerpt:
- My key motivation for creating this report was an opinion that the Internet forums have too many arguments between spa dealers (e.g., “my spa /this feature is better than yours”). Like many other spa shoppers out there, I am interested in less biased, non-dealer opinions and spa experiences. So began this little hobby.
- I do not claim to be a spa expert, although I learned a heck of a lot during this process. I am a Systems Engineer by trade. In that role I am quite accustomed to developing unbiased trade studies (feature evaluation, pros, cons, etc.) when evaluating options for engineering solutions.
- Although the majority of my review criteria is subjective (e.g., seat/lounge comfort and feel of jet packages), you will find that they are qualified either by relative comparisons to other spas I wet tested, or can be taken in context by my personal stats. For opinions that relate more to my height or weight, I believe many of the observations here will still be valuable to you
- If you want to take a look at the first Wet Test thread, here's the link: http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1124071622
Included in the report are spa reviews from the following manufacturers- Arctic Spas [Tundra, Summit, Frontier]
- Coyote Spas [C-70]
- Hotspring Spas [Grandee, Envoy]
- Tiger River Spas [Caspian]
- Cal Spas [CA-51, CBA-32, CA-22]
- Artesian Spas [Grand Cayman]
- Caldera Spas [Niagara]
- Marquis Spas [Epic]
- Coleman Spas [481]
- Master Spas [LSX, LS2X]
- Jacuzzi Spas [J-385]
- Dynasty Spas [Excalibur 5000 Renaissance, Neptune Poseidon]
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Very nice Duffman. How many hours do you have into this research project? Are you ready to pull the Trigger or do you need to compile more data? Good luck with your purchase.
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Good job!! I was a little surprised as to no mention of lack of power in the Coleman models. I started out selling coleman 11 yrs ago when Coleman actually had something to do with the spas other than just lend a name. In the last 6 years since Coleman has had nothing to do with the spas I have seen a dramatic decrease in power. Please elaborate on this if ya can. Thanks again for your hard work. :D
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Duffman,
Thanks for adding (comically, of course...) the extra addition of what not to take away from the report. Here is the non-strawman argument why that was an important thing to add and why I'm thanking you for adding it.
You are getting ALOT of positive feedback because you went to every hot tub manufacturer in your area and compared all spas you were interested in in a consistent fashion.
Why is that considered a big deal? Because most shoppers do not do that.
They begin the weeding process early, early on. The number of shoppers who wet test at all is (apparently?) very low. Some people don't want to wet test 10-20 different spas. They want to get down to the final 2-5 quickly and they do cut some odd corners to get there, in my opinion. And, yes, your work could be abused as a corner-cutting tool. It is common to hear people say "my husband/wife/whatever won't wet test at all". And if they do manage to talk them into a wet test, it will be for 1-2 tubs, not 10-20!
So thank you for adding that disclaimer to your excellent analysis. Will it make a difference? Probably not, but it doesn't hurt either. And it is neither silly nor intelligence-insulting.
Your salesman tic-tac-toe card was brilliant. Good work, and good luck on your landscaping!
-Ed
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I got a huge kick out of the tic-tac-toe.
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In the last 6 years since Coleman has had nothing to do with the spas I have seen a dramatic decrease in power. :D
I can't speak for how powerful Coleman used to be, but here's my 2 cents
For someone seeking a good spa in a lower price range (i.e., lower compared to much of the competition I tested), Coleman appears to be a spa worth checking out. The power on the 2 pump model I tested wasn't bad relative to some of the others.
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I like the "phoenix-like" reference. That's good writin'.
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It was interesting to receive an e-mail from a corporate officer for one of the major spa manufacturers.
I was informed that after reviewing the report, it was distributed to their marketing, design, and factory sales teams in order to better understand their competition, and to consider areas for design improvements.
While this wet test report was generated with consumers in mind, it is gratifying to know the information might of use to manufacturers as well. Very cool 8)
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Very cool, indeed. Always fulfilling to receive "kudos".
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There's manufacturer's on the board? I thought it was only spa users, dealers, and dealers sometimes disguised as users.
Hey Jaccuzzi!!!!! You here???? Put beer holders in your shell mold!!!!
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Hey Jaccuzzi!!!!! You here???? Put beer holders in your shell mold!!!!
Gee, I thought alcohol and hot tubbing was a dangerous combination?? ?? ;D ;D ;D
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Are you ready to pull the Trigger or do you need to compile more data?
I'm not yet certain which spa to purchase but will most likely buy one of the top 5 from my wet test report.
One decision I have definitely made is to wait until my backyard landscaping and electrical work is complete.
When talking to dealers about my plans they all said the same thing, "Your order will probably take 4-8 weeks to come in so you really ought to put down a deposit now." For anyone who has not prepared their house to take delivery of a spa, I personally think this is a bad idea.
- There is no guarantee that landscaping and/or electric contractors will come through on schedule, or that there won't be any quality issues that would have to be addressed before installing the spa.
- I've read a few posts describing negative experiences where deposit issues or extra charges were declared after patio plans didn't pan out, and the spa could not be delivered as scheduled. In some cases I can see why a dealer might even be justified, but why risk putting yourself in that position?
Here's the type of purchase experience that everyone should hope for...
About 3 mos of shopping and wet testing for the RIGHT tub. During that 3mos we had the concrete pad put in and scheduled electric to be done. After we found the right tub (in stock lucky for us), we had it delivered and installed within 1 week.
Way to go jsimo. Happy soaking!
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What a long, strange, trip it's been... 8)
After a lot of research, some great information and support from other forum members, and the fact that my landscaping contractor is nearing completion of my backyard, I took the leap and ordered my spa today.
It was a tough call choosing between 4 of the many spas I wet tested, but in the end I decided on the Jacuzzi 385.
Overall I preferred Jacuzzi's jet configuration, power, and feel; comfort and open design for all the seats; the large footwell, whirpool therapy jet, and the 3rd pump dedicated to the foot/calf jets. These are all personal preferences of course, but when buying a spa I can't think of anything more important to your decision.
Still, there were a few things about the 385 that I'm not thrilled about. I would like to see Jacuzzi offer a better quality cover, easier maintenance access, and someplace safe to put drinks (There is no place to put anything except on top of the waterfalls). I countered the last issue by ordering a 60" bar that mounts to the side of the spa, and also a couple matching bar stools.
I guess it just goes to prove that even with a lot of research, it is not always possible to find the "perfect spa," just the best one for you. Nevertheless, I'm really happy with my decision and am looking forward to taking delivery in a few weeks.
On a side note I want to affirm the importance of doing business with a dealer you are comfortable with; one with a clean business record, and good references. I can confirm that a minor but significant part of my decision to eliminate two of the spas I was considering, was due to a lack of comfort and confidence in the dealers.
Take care everyone. Best of luck with your research.
Duffman
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Congrats Duffman. I was wondering what happened to you. I'll be waiting for a Chemical Analysis Report next. Are you a dichlor guy?
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Congrats Duffman!!! ;D Now the waiting game begins. Just in time for the cold weather. I think the decision is harder than buying a new car.
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Are you a dichlor guy?
Or a Dollar Menu guy? - Flipper
Glad to hear it Duffman, lots of wisdom in that last post. I'm sure a lot of people benefited by your thread. When is delivery?
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Duffman, I saw your posts on Jim Arjuna's board and am wondering if you had a chance to wet test a Haven spa. What happened there? A comparison by a shopper, leaving Jim's personality out of it, would be interesting. Thanks.
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I'll be taking delivery in 3-4 weeks.
As for the previous post. Let me just say that my report includes everything that I wanted to wet test as part of my research. The only exception is that I would have liked to try a Sundance. There was just no opportunity.
I did receive a number of references in my area from Haven, and talked at length with a couple of owners. Based on their feedback, a couple phone calls with the company, and my own research, I decided I would not consider buying one myself.
Since there are no dealers in most of the country, Haven owners are encouraged to allow potential buyers to wet test at their residences (i.e., incentive plan offered by the company). This being the case in my area, I did not want to impose on their time and hospitality when I knew I would not be getting one.
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I have no doubt that you bought the best tub for you, Duffman!! ;) It is a tough decision, but now that it is made, you can await Spatopia's arrival. I know the wait is difficult, and I had issues with delivery, but once it was up and running, the wait was long behind me!!!
Official blessings when you are up and running. I'll give you this one in the meantime...May your preparations be quick and your delivery be smooth!!!
You've been patient so far, just a little longer!!