Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: luigi311 on September 02, 2005, 03:38:13 pm
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My Sundance dealer has a couple wonderful salespeople that do a very good job of demo's.
I was all ready to buy a tub and I put $1500 down on a demo tub. They said they would get it shipped in and call me when it got there. I got a message from my salesperson 3 days later and was asked to call her back.
It did not list the times she would be in the store.
I called her back a few hours after the message was left and then left a message on her machine.
After not receiving a call back for 2 months, I thought I would call them back. When I did call them a girl let me know that my tub was in stock. I WAS PISSED that they did not call me. I was told that my salesperson would call me the next day, but she did not. I then called to cancel the tub and had to leave a message again.
A week later I did get ahold of my salesperson when I asked if they had credited my deposit back, the person put me on hold and my salesperson then picked up the phone and let me know I had to talk to the owner to get my deposit back. Seems like Sundance is not the right brand for me. The owner is supposed to call me in one hour. I did not sign any paperwork with this dealer and the deposit was supposed to be fully refundable.
This seems like a shady company! If any corporate Sundance people are reading these boards, feel free to email me.
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Did you special order your tub? I could see an issue with the deposit if they ordered the spa for you.
I will also mention that Sundance is one of the most highly respected brands and this sounds like a dealer issue.
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I have heard some bad stories about Sundaance delaers. Maybee I should stear clear
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They told me it was an in-stock item at Sundance that was used as a demo, probably at a trade show.
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I have heard some bad stories about Sundaance delaers. Maybee I should stear clear
Welcome to the board! ;D
If you stick around long enough, you will hear bad stories about EVERY manufacturer there is. Why, there's even a couple of people on this board that act like they don't like me or HotSpring! :-*
Sundance is a very good brand of spa with a very good reputation. You could certainly do a lot worse. Just be dilligent and do the research and you are certain to find the right spa for you. Good luck! :)
Terminator
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$1,500 deposit on a discounted demo spa from Sundance to be ordered in sight unseen, no paper work, called once and left a message and 2 months later your upset because your tub is in.
You need to visit the dealer location and ask to see your sales person AND the dealer to resolve this situation.
Something is wrong here and it has nothing to do with Sundance Spas, and it is not going to get fixed here in the open forum. Gather whatever you do have and go in to see the dealer.
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I called the owner, because the salesperson said that the only person who could do a refund was the owner.
The owner refused to give me a refund. Said that I had signed a contract. I told him that I put a deposit on a spa over the phone and that I can't think of a way that I would have been able to sign over the phone.
He said that he actually has two signed contracts. I did sign a contract that was supposed to be fully refundable, however the salesperson did not get my credit card number and called me and asked for it. She said that if I did not give her the number then the tub would not be reserved for me. I called her back 5 times and she never called back.
The dealer told me that I am liable for both tubs and that he has been sitting on them for a long time
and is sorry they didn't call to let me know that they are in stock. He said he is reasonable and would only make me pay for one, or he could keep my $1500.
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I never got a copy of the contract. The owner and salesperson acknowledge that it was never mailed to me.
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Whoa! Did we miss something here? why are we now talking about 2 spas???
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Why did they order 2 tubs? I would be ticked off too if someone did not return my phone calls. Even if they didn't get your message, someone should have followed up on the contract.
I don't see any reason why they should keep your $1500. We sure wouldn't based on what you've written.
Terminator
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i had a similar story happen from sundance here in denver...put 500 dollars on a tub and our patio was poured incorrectly so we took our contractor to court and i told sd dealer this and he wouldnt refund the 500.00 but told me to contact him when litigation was finished which was a year later now and they want alot more for the optima i had signed for then(they sold my tub cause i told them not to hold it as it would be many months or a yeaR till this whole patio thing is sorted out)
Anyhow..now i am back to square 1..wet testing and hoping to find a great tub at $500 less then 8300.00 if possible to make my last deposit null and void!!
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Yes 2 tubs. I had agreed to put $500 dollars down on a tub. They did not collect the deposit on that one, therefore the contract was voided or that is what I was told by two salespeople. When I put a phone deposit on the second one, I was that the first one would be cancelled because I did not put a deposit on it.
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Guilty as charged Terminator. Some day I may get over it but I'm a cranky old cuss, so give it time.
Luigi and pillpusher, as Terminator says there are lots of feelings people have towards certain brands for various reasons. I happened to have a terrible time with a couple dealers and it's shaded my views. But the dealer is the one who represents you to the manufacturer and who you need to trust. I bought a Sundance and the tub is everything I'd hoped for and the dealer is great, has been from the first visit. If I'd been dealing with the dealer you have been I probably wouldn't be in the tub I am.
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Any suggestions on what to do next?
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Someone said that this is a case of fraud. Sounds like it to me when someone signs your name on a contract. The dealer says if I take delivery then he will guarantee excellent customer service. I don't see how he can guarantee excellent customer service. Seems like I would have to have him sign a contract to give me this excellent customer service and how much he is going to pay me if he doesn't provide this service!
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The problem with guaranteeing "Excellent Service" is that there isn't any way to quantify it. You can guarantee parts, labor, and even put a time standard on getting to service calls, but you can't guarantee "Excellent".
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Any suggestions on what to do next?
Based on your side of the story, I can understand your being upset, but you need to take a step back, breath and answer this question: other than being upset over the lack of communication, why are you unwilling to take delivery on something you wanted enough to put a large deposit on and wait patiently for?
Since you put the deposit on a credit card, contact your card company and see if they will help. They can put the transaction in dispute, which will force the dealer to respond. J McD has a point, however. You will need to be able to explain why you ordered one tub, didn't put a deposit on it, so it was cancelled (or so you thought) -- ordered a second tub, put a 3X larger deposit on it, never received paperwork, didn't follow up for two months, and now want to cancel.
You and the dealer need to sit down and try to be fair with each other. Given that this is the second time you have ordered a tub, only to end up cancelling both times, the dealer probably is just as upset as you are. Nonetheless, if you haven't taken delivery of the tub, and it is not a special order, I would think that most of the $1500 should come back. Remember, the dealer did incur shipping costs to bring this tub in, based on your commitment, evidenced by your deposit, so getting it all back wouldn't be fair either.
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His sales people said it was just to hold the tub. His salespeople said that the other tub was cancelled. His salespeople did not return repeated calls. His salesperson signed my name on a contract. The other salesperson took my credit card number off another slip and added it to her sale after I was told it was cancelled.
I have a hard time doing business with this dealer when everyone on this board says how important it is to get along with your dealer. How important it is that your dealer is fair and ethical.
The owner says that I signed the contract. He had no explanation for who signed it since we put a hold on the tub over the phone. I had no idea that there was even a contract. And then it was never even mailed to me. After calling the store for a week everyday I quit calling them. I figured it would be no problem for them to give me my money back when they wouldn't even return calls.
All hot tub owners and salespeople, please call your customers and return their phone calls.
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Given the ethics of the dealer are suspect, I would vote to continue to work to cancel everything and get all my money back and go find another brand. Although Sundance seems to make a fine spa and Sundance itself is not the issue, I'm not sure I could ever trust that dealer to perform proper or timely service should it be required.
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His sales people said it was just to hold the tub. His salespeople said that the other tub was cancelled. His salespeople did not return repeated calls. His salesperson signed my name on a contract. The other salesperson took my credit card number off another slip and added it to her sale after I was told it was cancelled.
Start with your credit card company. That will be the quickest way to get the money back in your pocket instead of theirs. Sundance would probably like to know about this dealer's behavior as well, and may be able to help you reach a resolution. Finally, with the info you just posted regarding unauthorized signatures and credit card numbers, you probably do have criminal and civil court remedies available. Good luck and keep us posted.
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How do you fork over $1500 without anything in writing? You sat back for 2 months without any comunication? this amazes me. wow.
The owner claims they have 2 signed contracts by you? That also sounds fishy.
Some one is lying.
If it's you. then work it out and fufill your obligations you agreeded to. If the dealer is pulling a fast one, or is run by incompetents, then call the credit card company imedientlly.
:o
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I think the main point coming from this discussion is that you either need to go to the dealer in person and work this out with them, or call your credit card company and try to get it worked out that way. Obviously doing things over the phone with the dealer isn't working.
The readers of this board are only getting your side of the story. Although your side may be totally correct, I don't think I am the only one that feels there are a lot of details being left out, intentionally or not.
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Call your credit card company and let them know you would like to "disbute" this payment. Let them know your situation.
lotsa luck!
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I called the credit card company and they are going to refund the charge. I still plan to drive 50 minutes to the
dealers and get the "alleged signed" contract.
I really want to know who signed my name.
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Very strange story. Sounds very fishy to me. Good luck with your quest.
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What is a reasonable deposit that you should be expected to leave when purchasing a Spa?
If a dealer is ordering the Spa for you?
If the dealer has one in stock?
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If you stick around long enough, you will hear bad stories about EVERY manufacturer there is.
Very True. Here in Columbus, Ohio the Sundance dealer/Jacuzzi dealer has been around a long time with lots of satisfied customers. The same with the Hot Springs/Cal dealer. Then there is the Master Spa dealer, who never participates in shows ;) and is known around town for thier pink trucks, they have been around forever with lots of satisfied customers.
On the other hand, the Dynasty Dealer had been around a long time with a good reputation, but that went away pretty quickly. Tough business world these days.
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I called the credit card company and they are going to refund the charge. I still plan to drive 50 minutes to the
dealers and get the "alleged signed" contract.
I really want to know who signed my name.
I'm betting they can't produce if if you show up and ask for it. (I haven't read all the way down in this subject yet ;)
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You are right. Yesterday I drove to the dealers and of course the owner was not there. All I could do was get a copy of both contracts. The real contract did not have my name signed on it. The first contract that did not have my credit card info on it somehow did have my credit card info on it now.
The salesperson did ask me why I didn't ask for her the second time I came in. So this let me know the second salesperson tried to hide this from the first salesperson and the owner. I saw the second salesperson and he hid in the backroom while I was in the store.
The salesperson said that I had to come back and talk to the owner or she could set up delivery for me right away. She also guaranteed great service after the sale.
She let me know that I didn't have to deal with salespeople or the owner ever again, the service department is a different section of the company. That REALLY provided me with a sense of relief.
At no point has anyone ever apologized or said that they have made a mistake.
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Wow!! :oThis is one of the better topics I've seen in a while guys...and boy is it a mystery?!
I'm sorry things didn't turn out so well for you. Not one but two spas, forged signatures, bad contracting, whoa...where do you live guy?
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I live in St Louis.
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The dealer was supposed to call me Friday and set up a time to meet with me, but he did not call. I talked to my original sales rep and she said she would see him on Friday and have him call me. One more time they let me down. Not sure how they could consider this "Great Customer Service."
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I'm a little late jumping into this thread, but..Poopsy, if you have a signed contract that does not specificaly state a demo spa to be delivered by a specific date, ot that the transaction must be completed by a specific date, the dealer is legaly bound to perform on the contract, in the same way that if the dealer wanted to press the issue, you would be leagaly bound to perform on your end of the contract. I would go back to that dealer, with contract in hand and nicely ask for compeltion of the contract.
i had a similar story happen from sundance here in denver...put 500 dollars on a tub and our patio was poured incorrectly so we took our contractor to court and i told sd dealer this and he wouldnt refund the 500.00 but told me to contact him when litigation was finished which was a year later now and they want alot more for the optima i had signed for then(they sold my tub cause i told them not to hold it as it would be many months or a yeaR till this whole patio thing is sorted out)
Anyhow..now i am back to square 1..wet testing and hoping to find a great tub at $500 less then 8300.00 if possible to make my last deposit null and void!!
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I was not impressed with said dealer. Attitude and price games were a turn off. I thought the Sundance spas were nice, not my favorite, but definitely nice.
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We kind of have two threads going here with luigi and poopsy, but I had a thought for each of you:
Poopsy, I agree with Wisoki. Either the dealer should complete the contract at the original price or refund the deposit. The only rationale for keeping the deposit is if they ordered the tub, and still have it in stock or are willing to provide a replacement at the same price. If they don't want to go through with the deal because the tub is gone and replacement prices have gone up, they should give your your money back. Go to small claims court if the dealer won't perform.
Luigi, if your credit card company has placed this item in dispute, you should get a temporary credit (dont' spend the money just yet) to your account, pending resolution. This puts the ball in the dealer's court, so I wouldn't waste any more time trying to track them down. The card company will contact the dealer, asking them to provide documentation supporting these transactions. Be sure to let the card company know about the forged documents. If the dealer does not respond, or cannot provide proof to back up their side of the story, they will be charged back for the deposit and the credit will become permanent. This usually takes 60-90 days. Now all you have to do is wait patiently and check with your card company monthly. 8)
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Somehow I still feel responsible for trying to continue communication. I have no idea why. After leaving many messages in June, I got tired and stopped calling them.
The owner was supposed to call me on Friday, but got around to calling me on Saturday. I guess that is his idea of great customer service. Of course I was busy and his message was a generic message of I want to do whatever I can to get this resolved. He has said this before and that means collect all of his money and deliver a tub, then give me great customer service, code words for never talk to me again.
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Somehow I still feel responsible for trying to continue communication. I have no idea why. After leaving many messages in June, I got tired and stopped calling them.
The owner was supposed to call me on Friday, but got around to calling me on Saturday. I guess that is his idea of great customer service. Of course I was busy and his message was a generic message of I want to do whatever I can to get this resolved. He has said this before and that means collect all of his money and deliver a tub, then give me great customer service, code words for never talk to me again.
Luigi, you should be responsible for keeping the communications open. This is not to say they do not share an equal responsibility to do the same.
After leaving many messages in June, you stopped calling. Why? Your money was at stake. What about the spa?
Now the owner was supposed to call you on Friday, but this was done on Saturday. Then you see this as a generic message and you give us your interpretation that it means, pay the balance and he will deliver your tub, again your interpretation is to imply "code words for never talk to me again."
You obviously have a conflict at hand that you seem to hold yourself faultless for, which confuses all of us, 2 deposits, 2 spas, 2 sales people, forged signatures, a criminal act, you didn't sign the contract then why did you expect your deposit back if you din't sign it, unauthorized credit card use? ???
I did not sign any paperwork with this dealer and the deposit was supposed to be fully refundable.
I did sign a contract that was supposed to be fully refundable, however the salesperson did not get my credit card number and called me and asked for it."
"After not receiving a call back for 2 months, I thought I would call them back".
"I WAS PISSED that they did not call me."
We seem to be on a one way street here and it is a pretty short street. First of all, we know this has no reflection on the Sundance product and you are implying the problem then is with a "Sundance Dealer" and I find this totally out of character for a professional dealership, regardless of the manufacturer they represent.
"I don't see how he can guarantee excellent customer service. Seems like I would have to have him sign a contract to give me this excellent customer service and how much he is going to pay me if he doesn't provide this service!"
This would have a great deal to do with your attitude and disposition to this point. While I am sure it has been kind, caring, and handled by you in a pleasant and peaceful demeanor in search of a mutually ageed upon resolution to the sequence of these events.
Somehow, I get the impression, you are eliciting this forum to support your issues and to side with you when we can not. There are always two sides to any coin and I am sure the owner/dealer has a point of view as well that we are not hearing.
So far, I believe everyone here has tried to help with meaningful advice. If you are truley as innocent as you proclaim, and you have not been beligerant or combative in your attidude or demeanure, take the advice of this forum, file a complaint with the local police department, the Attorney General's office, with Sundance/Jacuzzi, the BBB, and with your credit card company to fight your battle.
I don't believe this is an issue involving the manufacturer or the network of legitimate professional dealers and while we all have empathy for your, we honestly do not know if you are at the center core or not, as you allege the dealer or salesperson is, I get the feeling they are not the problem. But then, I have been wrong before.
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McD,
The only issue I have with Sundance is that when I emailed them to ask about a product they didn't email me back. They did send a brochure, but did not answer my question.
On their website I couldn't find an 800 number. Just email and fax. Other than that it says contact your dealer. Seems a little strange.
Thanks for your unbiased thoughts and dealer's perspective.
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You could try looking up the phone number for Sundance using an online phone search, like dexonline.com. I know their main number is listed.
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try 800 323 6776 and ask for customer service. Let's see if they (Jacuzzi/Sundance) care to get involved and do something for you. right now I think they are more interested in numbers than people. Just my opinion. ;)
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It says the number you have dialed is invalid or has been blocked. 800-323-6776. Works as good as email anyway.
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Try this number (909)606-7733. A real person will answer believe it or not in this day of auto answering devices (I too am guilty). This number is from the warranty section of the web site.
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Apparently the days of an 800 number are gone. Somehow this doesn't suprise me. After a website that you get no response from.
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I had an issue with my local Sundance dealer during the decision process. I called directly to Sundance to discuss my treatment by the local store. I was NOT impressed with the response from the CORPORATE headquarters. They gave me an "Oh Well" response. If Sundance tubs are as reliable as their human interaction. . . . . . OUCH :-[
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What were the issues during the decision process? What would you have liked Sundance Corpoarate to do?
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Just let me know how their relationship has been with this dealer. What they train their dealership to say or do. I want to know if the dealership is being consistent with the way Sundance wants theirselves represented.
When you only have one dealership in a city this size, one dealership can affect a lot of people easily.
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Sorry, I was replying to Freds post. I wanted to see what his issues were and why Sundance gave him an "Oh well" response.
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I wanted to buy the tub from a dealer just 30 minutes from my home. Even though the price was slightly HIGHER I would have preferred that dealer rather than the dealer 10 minutes away. Sundance gave me the "that's the way it is" too bad speech.
I was ready to plunk down over 8000 bucks. I guess they think that's trivial (chump) money
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Anybody else having problems with Sundance?
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Nope, not one.
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My issue was not with Sundance, but with the dealer, HOM.
I got jerked around at the sales rep level. When I navigated up the food chain my issue was resolved........and then some.
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Can you expand on that AlwaysPerky? What city are you in? What did you end up with? How high up the food chain? What did you say or have to do?
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Mpls, MN
The sales guy sold me an 04 Optima. He really wanted to move it. I repeatedly asked, "is this a brand new spa?" YES, YES, YES. "Can I go see it in the warehouse?" NO! "You are sure this is new?" YES! "Why is it sitting the warehouse? Why aren't you trying to sell it in the tent sale?" "I don't know?"
Spa was delivered when I was at work. Got home with electrician started install...................long story short. The tub was a busted up floor model that didn't work. Sales guy promised and promised he'd take care of me. Yet a week went buy without a proactive call back from him.
I called the sales director on his cell phone. He seemed interested in resolving the issue. He asked what he could do. I stated I wasn't sure he could do anything but to come take it away. "If this is how you treat new customers, I hate to think of how I'd be treated down the road." I suggested he come up with another solution. With in 45 minutes his solution was to deliver an 05 for the same price, with extra chemicals, and $100 in store credit. The new tub was delivered and set up with-in two weeks.
About 3 days after we agreed on the solution, the sales guy called to tell me that he thought he could get the service team to replace and fix everything that was wrong on the original tub. I didn't call him back.
What started out as a total disappointment ended up being probably the best deal I ever got. He could have just cut his losses with me, but instead retained a HOM and Sundance customer.
My family, friends and neighbors know what happened and there's been at least two Sundance Spa's purchased as a result of how I was treated in the end.
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I cannot believe the turn over in spa dealers in the Minneapolis area they pop up for a bit and before you know it they are dropping brands and picking new ones. It was amazing to see the short business span of dealers there.
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At least the Sundance dealer in StL was upfront about pushing "scratch and dents" which in itself was a turnoff because that wasn't what I was inquiring about.
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That's funny that the salesguy had no idea what was going on. And then of course never called back to check on you again! Is the sales director someone from the Sundance company or from the dealership?
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Very unethical, but it worked out in the end for you.
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I would call the sales guy back and take him up on his offer! See how far he gets before he realizes his goof up.
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Guzz that would be funny!
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He's a HOM employee.
I've tried to imagine why anyone would do that on purpose. I've come up with two ideas
1.) He really didn't know
2.) He'd make a lot of $ on the deal
Water under the bridge and besides I'm too relaxed to push it.
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What is HOM?
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I'm reading your posts Luigi and they are confusing. All I can say is I would quit with the phone calling and go in to see the dealer. You say you have no paperwork, dealer didn't mail it yet says they have a signed contract?? Personally, I would not have waited 2 months after I left a message. If I had not received a return call and I was left wondering what's going on...I'd have been into the dealership taking care of it.
Sounds like a lot of confusion from all involved. Hope it works out for you.
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HOM is a large furniture store in the Midwest with about 13 locations. They sell furniture, spas, sauna's, rugs...........nice place.............some times hard to keep good people in the retail game I'd guess.